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Dear America...check your frikin' facts.
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Posted 10/8/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


raja613 wrote:


Blah Blah.....lol I don't wanna get into a back and forth now Obama is gonna win........thats all!


Well, of course you don’t. You’d have to actually defend Obama if we debated our points. Which, you’re almost certainly incapable of-considering that 90% of Obama’s supporters are nothing more than puppets dancing their jig.


What a moronic statement.
Save the childish politics for your high school, thanks.
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Posted 10/8/08

mauz15 wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


raja613 wrote:


Blah Blah.....lol I don't wanna get into a back and forth now Obama is gonna win........thats all!


Well, of course you don’t. You’d have to actually defend Obama if we debated our points. Which, you’re almost certainly incapable of-considering that 90% of Obama’s supporters are nothing more than puppets dancing their jig.


What a moronic statement.
Save the childish politics for your high school, thanks.


I was trying to instigate a retaliation so that I could obliterate it and prove a point-since it was he who was originally being condescending and insulting toward other users simply because they expressed an opinion.

The fact is that most people who support Obama -are- puppets. Most people support McCain are puppets. Most of the people who support anybody running for any office in America are puppets-because this is politics.

Politics is collective behavior aimed at influencing the government. The art of professional politicians is, then, to manipulate the behavior of the people. Obama’s just considerably better at this than McCain.
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Posted 10/8/08 , edited 10/8/08
I dont buy your 'I was trying to' and even if it were so, what a cheap mode of discourse.

There are better ways to do this. Politics are full of bullshit as it is, let's not add more when we talk about it.
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Posted 10/8/08 , edited 10/8/08
I believe anyone who support democrats and republicans is puppets because both of them got us into this now $10 trillion (thanks to the bailout and the wars we are still fighting) debt and both of them is continually taking our country into wars. They want to worry about he economy yet they keep the fed reserve around with no oversight and fail to mention about how much these wars is bankrupting our country. Both dont even want to mention that if it wasnt for China loaning us money we wont even be able to fund this war. Bankrupting this country on wars that should never happen there and to say Mccain is the lesser of the evils when he is late to realize whats the status of the economy and is postion on foreign policy makes no sense. But then again I dont see too much of a difference with Obama because all his flip flopping I dont know if he is serious about sitting down and negotiate peace seems like he will only negotiate whats in the USA interest and possible Israel considering their stance on Iran.

Even though I dont support them it would be nice if Bob Barr and Ralph Nadar could be invited to the damn debates so we can see everyones stances on issues rather then having to look up on the interent to really find out about these other party candidates because apparently our mainstream media doesnt want us to know jack shit about them.
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Posted 10/8/08

h4x0rz wrote:

I pity American voters. Choosing between Obama-McCain is like choosing between the Electric Chair and Lethal Injection


I'd rather both at the same time.
Posted 10/8/08

Kanone wrote:

It's not gonna stop one of them becoming the President. Everyone in the world tells lies, no matter how much you think they don't.


Whoever tells the prettier lie, brings the nation to tears with a speech, and has good dance appeals obviously deserves to win the big tamale of all prizes: $400,000 paycheck/year and the massive power of ruling a first world country.

Wow, looks like Obama met all the requirements.
Think about it this way, Americans are simply picking the best of the worst two options -- what else can they do? You know what would be devestatingly interesting?

If a third party were to ever make it through to the final stand out. Too bad their ideals are always absorbed into both the republicrooks and dumbocrats before they have a chance to be in the actual run.

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Posted 10/8/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


FierceAngel wrote:

hmmm... this is a tough one i am american and personally i dont like either one and do believe that both of them would more than likely have to double security, but McCain wants off shore drilling off the coast of Fl from what i understand. and i strongly oppose that and also the way he is campaigning, so i think i will go with obama because i really like hilary and bill really didnt do a bad job so what if he had an affair that was the best our economy has been in a long time and i want to believe that since he is endorsing obama he will help him pull this country out of our finacial depression. then maybe we as a country could begin to heal, the homeless and crime rates would go back down and it would be easier for middle class americans to find jobs. now that would be fantastic no?

P.S McCain VOTED AGAINST THE WOMENS RIGHT TO EARN EQUAL WAGES, STATING THAT WOMEN NEEDED BETTER EDUCATIONS AND MORE TRAINING TO BE EQUAL TO THAT OF A MAN, THAN WHEN PEOPLE FOUND OUT HE BACK PEDDLED AND CHOOSE A WOMAN VP TO SMOOTH IT OVER AND WIN BACK THE VOTES OF THE AMERICAN WOMEN

THAT PISSES ME OFF *sings* " anything you can do i can do better" lol


Bill Clinton was good at what he did. The problem is that what he did was play “short term leadership.” In other words, he was more concerned about looking good while he was in office than he was with the greater benefit of America. You do realize that he’s largely to blame for the current economic crises? The Clinton administration pressed for less stringent credit and down payment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/clinton-rejects-blame-for-financial-crisis-2008-09-25.html

Also, Obama’s economic plan is simply too revolutionary. We’re not stable enough to support it. Let’s look at a few examples. He wants to privatize health insurance. I also want health insurance to be privatized. (Canada has private health insurance, and so does France, and Sweden-all three are famous for their health insurance. This is so true that my grandmother became a French citizen.) However, this costs a lot of money. Where does the government get its money? It gets it from revenues and taxes. To get the money to privatize health insurance we have to raise taxes.

This means that you and I are going to be shelling more bucks out of our pocket, but that doesn’t bother me. You see, I don’t like people who ‘vote with their wallets,’ because I’m willing to give my hard earned money for my ideals. I’d sell everything I owned if it meant saving lives like a privatized health insurance system would.

However, the taxes aren’t limited to households, families, and citizens. They also apply to businesses. Small business are continuously going out of business because they can’t keep up with the taxes. By raising the taxes we destroy small business and make it harder to break into business. This results in the slower generation of future jobs and the loss of already existing jobs.

When American citizens aren’t making money they can’t pay taxes. When we can’t pay taxes the government can’t raise money. When the government can’t raise money it’s programs fail. Economists are all pointing out that Obama’s plan is simply not realistic.

Obama wants to give 10% of our GDP to the UN. I like this idea because I feel the world would be a better place if larger nations were contributing more. This would also help our internation relations. However, how are we going to afford an entire tenth of our GDP being sent away with no direct benifit?

By cutting military expenditures. About twenty percent of the national budget goes to the American military. That‘s about $583,283,000,000. That’s more than the COMBINED military expenditures of the ENTIRE European Union. However, even that’s less than 4% of our GDP. So, how is cutting 4% of our GDP going to allow him to sacrifice 10% of our GDP?

Well, it’s not, and Obama knows it. He’s going to further raise taxes, costing more jobs, and taking more money from our wallets.

Obama’s plans will raise the governments spending by a 10,000,000,000,000-after- the bailout’s $7,000,000,000,000. I chose to use the numerals instead of writing the words out to stress how much money is at stake here. Even for the government that’s a lot of money.

What we can’t forget is that, thanks to Bush, our government is already trillions of dollars in debt. As a matter of a fact, America’s debt is greater than the rest of the world combined.

A lot of Obama’s ideals are wonderful, I’ve thought that since he started running. (Though I’m not fond of his stance on allowing abortion in all cases, and I certainly hate that he’s against gay marriage. I wish Ellen was more politically extroversive, she’d eat him alive! Lucky, the president can’t ban gay marriage, only the individual states can.) However, while Obama has great ideas for revolution, there’s simply no way he’s going to carry out with his campaign promises.

You know, most politicians don’t follow through once they get in office. Remember, if something sounds too good to be true it probably is. Well, Obama’s ‘change,’ sounds too good too be true. I think it’s hollow campaign promise. Obama’s got a history of political dishonesty. So does McCain, mind you, but Obama’s is considerably more massive.

(I would like to note that Plain has actually been naively honest through most of this campaign, while Joe Biden has been self-contradictory. This being said, neither one of them were 100% honest in the vice presidential debate today, but both made valid points none the less.)

Now, I would like to elaborate on your comment about McCain and women’s rights to earn equal wages. I want to do this because I don’t think you’d be so offended if you knew the entire context of his vote.

You see, what he voted against was affirmative action for women. Affirmative action is often called, ‘positive prejudice.’

You see, women and minorities-African Americans and Hispanic Americans most notably-are often the victims of industrialized discrimination. Many people say that industrial racism and sexism is over. This drives me mad!

Statistics and studies both clearly show that this just isn’t true. Women and racial minorities ARE being discriminated against in their personal AND professional lives.

This being said, ‘positive prejudice,’ was invented as a counter balance. The hope behind positive prejudice is to give women more jobs and force companies to pay male and female employees equally.

However, there’s a problem. Positive prejudice is still prejudice. It ignores individual performance. Here, let me give you an example.

My father once sent in an application to be a member of the local police force. He’s the man who invented the safety system used by the entire Military Police Force of Ft. Lewis, Washington. He’s college educated, and was a member of the Military Police Force with maximum clearance for nearly a decade.

The local police force had advertised that it needed more workers. Naturally he figured he’d be a perfect candidate-and he would’ve been except one complication. The police force did need more workers, but it needed more African American workers. Affirmative action forced the police agency to maintain a certain percentage of African American employees. So, even though my dad was more qualified, a black man who had relatively negligible experience got the job.

Imagine you were a manager at a local restaurant. You have many employees but two in particular. Both of these employees are cashiers. One is a man and one is a woman. The man is always smiling, his cash-drawer never comes up short, and he the customers love him. As a matter of a fact, many customers come just to see him. He makes them laugh and they enjoy talking to him. He’s also very generous, often pitching in to help customers when they’re short on change.

The female does her job, but she never smiles. She never steals, but sometimes she gets careless and the drawer is several dollars short. She’s loosing you customers and money, and many customers send complaints about her being terse. She’s not an entirely bad employee, just mediocre.

Under positive prejudice you’re forced to pay this woman the same amount as you’re paying this man. You see, it’s not really fair to that man. Now, collectively it’s “for the greater good,” but it ignores the fact that this man is being treated unfairly.

McCain voted against collective action because he, like most republicans, feels that there is no room for prejudice in the government, even if it’s positive. He believes that men and women should be paid based on performance. In the examples I gave you my dad should have been hired, and your male employee should’ve been paid more.

However, if you reversed it and said that the girl was the better employee and the boy was a boob then the girl should get paid more. Should the black have been more qualified than the white the black should’ve gotten the job.

McCain has made a comment about women requiring more training, but he was talking about the military. His claim is statistically accurate because most low-ranked officials in the military join fresh out of high-school. High-schools have many sports programs but these are largely male dominated. In other words, the boys are typically in better shape than the girls.

This isn’t always true, but sometimes it is.

You see, men have their strengths and women have theirs. A recent study showed, for example, that women make better employers and managers while men make better employees. Male managers are too conservative. They reward good and punish bad, but don’t elaborate on this traditional method.

Women are more likely (don’t forget I’m generalizing, this isn’t always true for either side) to bond with employees and create a “family,” feeling. This makes employees want to stay longer and work harder. It also makes increases teamwork.

Women, studies show, are BY FAR the better managers.

At the same time, men typically, make better employees because they’re less likely to feel competitive with coworkers based on appearance and performance. Their teamwork is, usually, better.

None of this is always true, but statistically what McCain said wasn’t inaccurate. He was just generalizing. That doesn’t justify it, generalizing isn‘t entirely fair, but he wasn’t really wrong and Obama-as well as anyone supporting positive prejudice-is guilty of this to some degree themselves.

I recently read an expository essay written by a young African American republican who hated affirmative action. This youth, in considerably more aggressive terms, wrote: “Democrats act like minorities are handicapped or stupid. We don’t need handicaps like affirmative action! We’re just as capable as white people!”

There was even an episode of Scrubs where an African American doctor, Turk, was irritated because people recognized him as a surgeon not because his talent but because his race. African American surgeons weren’t as common as Caucasian ones, so he received unfair publicity and credit for performances. This irritated him and he threatened to sue the hospital if they didn’t start acknowledging white and black employees equally-based only on performance.

This topic has been greatly debated. Personally, I despise sexism and generalizing. I don’t think it’s fair that I’m paying three times as much on my car insurance as my sister-even though I’m a paranoid safety freak. I drive 5-10 miles under the speed limit, always buckle up, and never take risks.

My sister never buckles up, occasionally speeds, and is constantly talking on the cell-phone while driving.

It’s much more likely that she’ll get in a wreck, but because I’m a man they automatically assume that I’m street-racing.

Sexism against men is still sexism. People should be judged based on action, not rather they have a penis or a vagina.

McCain’s vote was simply saying that a woman who works harder than a man should get paid more. A man who works harder than a woman should get paid more. A women who doesn’t work hard as a man doesn’t deserve to be paid as much as that man. A man who doesn’t work as hard as a woman doesn’t deserve to get paid as much.

I’m not too fond of McCain though. This being said, Palin is pretty cool. I like her stance on abortion, education, the economy, and the war effort. I like that she, like McCain and Ronald Regan, hates party politics.

I hate her stance on gay marriage (she, like Obama and Joe Biden, is against gay marriage.) I also hate that her motive for raising national funding for special needs children comes from the fact that she has a retarded baby. I want more money to go to special needs students-I was in special ed in grade school-but I think it’s narrow that she’s letting personal experience dictate that decision.

I absolutely abhor Obama. I liked Biden when he was a senator, but I don’t like him as a vice president. I think he’s betrayed himself to insure Obama’s victory. I think that this is party politics and my admiration of Biden has suffered a fatal blow.

I WANTED to vote for Hillary Clinton. She was the most qualified, and while she was caught lying a few times she was still more honest than McCain OR Obama. Oh well, I guess she’ll forever be blamed for her idiot husband’s mistakes.


P.S: *Sings* "No you can't!" XD


I agree that Obama's ideal is too "fantasy-like" to me and that we should be payed for performance.
Also i like how u wrote an essay on it. It really impressed me.

btw u remind me of my history teacher.
Posted 10/8/08

SeraphAlford wrote:



You know, SeraphAlford, I'd adore inviting you to coffee sometime and allowing a fruitful conversation to unfold.

Posted 10/8/08
If lying surprises you then you obviously haven't followed politics for....well at all.
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Posted 10/8/08
let's not forget that there's no black or blue about lies. half-lies or half-truths as some would like to call them keep things rolling. a necessary component to win so that you can set forth what you ought to do if you do win.
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Posted 10/8/08

taka_hakase wrote:
I agree that Obama's ideal is too "fantasy-like" to me and that we should be payed for performance.
Also i like how u wrote an essay on it. It really impressed me.

btw u remind me of my history teacher. :D


That’s because Obama doesn’t do anything but talk about revolution. When he presents me with concrete plans-real numbers-I’ll believe him. However, it’s highly unlikely that he’ll be able to keep his campaign promises. Throw in the fact that he’s got a history of blatant dishonesty and is the latest in a line of corrupt politicians… Well, you can do the math. McCain’s no Regan, but he’s a better choice than Obama is or Bush was.

I’m glad I remind you of your history teacher. I’m not sure what I’ll do with my life, but I’m considering becoming a history or government professor.
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Posted 10/8/08

casualbrutality wrote:

You know, SeraphAlford, I'd adore inviting you to coffee sometime and allowing a fruitful conversation to unfold.



Well, that’d be great if I were as eloquent IRL as I am on the internet. Sadly, I’m not a great speaker. Honestly, I’m socially retarded; moreover, I’m able to get specific numbers while on the internet because I have time to stop and check my sources. I wouldn’t be as bold IRL. So, I’m flattered, but I’ll have to turn you down on that coffee date. :p
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Posted 10/8/08

mauz15 wrote:

I dont buy your 'I was trying to' and even if it were so, what a cheap mode of discourse.

There are better ways to do this. Politics are full of bullshit as it is, let's not add more when we talk about it.


You don’t buy it? Well, luckily I’m not dependent on what you believe or not.

As far as bringing bull-crap into politics, I had no intention of doing anything along those lines. Actually, I was intending to own somebody because of the crap they were bringing into politics. I had every intention of using hard-facts with cited sources.

Anyway, this is a forum on an website for streaming anime and J-dramas. I seriously doubt that anything I do or say here is going to have any kind of meaningful influence on the world of politics. So, I’m still not sure why exactly you seem so concerned with what I’m doing. I certainly don’t see why you’re concerned with my methods of proving a point.
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Posted 10/8/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


mauz15 wrote:

I dont buy your 'I was trying to' and even if it were so, what a cheap mode of discourse.

There are better ways to do this. Politics are full of bullshit as it is, let's not add more when we talk about it.


You don’t buy it? Well, luckily I’m not dependent on what you believe or not.

As far as bringing bull-crap into politics, I had no intention of doing anything along those lines. Actually, I was intending to own somebody because of the crap they were bringing into politics. I had every intention of using hard-facts with cited sources.

Anyway, this is a forum on an website for streaming anime and J-dramas. I seriously doubt that anything I do or say here is going to have any kind of meaningful influence on the world of politics. So, I’m still not sure why exactly you seem so concerned with what I’m doing. I certainly don’t see why you’re concerned with my methods of proving a point.


hahaha are you kidding me?

You are the creator of this thread, and statements like this:

"You’d have to actually defend Obama if we debated our points. Which, you’re almost certainly incapable of insert generalized statement here"

Regardless of motive are unfit, even more so when this generalization is made on a 'check your facts' thread.
Sources and facts are half of the equation, the method matters.

But whatever, keep tripping yourself with your own words, it is after all, of no concern to me.
Posted 10/8/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


casualbrutality wrote:

You know, SeraphAlford, I'd adore inviting you to coffee sometime and allowing a fruitful conversation to unfold.



Well, that’d be great if I were as eloquent IRL as I am on the internet. Sadly, I’m not a great speaker. Honestly, I’m socially retarded; moreover, I’m able to get specific numbers while on the internet because I have time to stop and check my sources. I wouldn’t be as bold IRL. So, I’m flattered, but I’ll have to turn you down on that coffee date. :p


You know, I would be as intimidated as you are with the thought of having coffee with someone like me as well.

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