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Human Rights - Personal Freedom
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30 / Ronald McDonald's...
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Posted 4/11/07 , edited 4/12/07
Okay, don\'t jump at me for this, if my terminology isn\'t correct, but I\'m too lazy to look it all up (including if there\'s already a thread like this)...

There\'s this one human right ( or individual right) concerning personal freedom and it says every individual should have the right to unfold their personality ( as long as they don\'t affect other\'s freedom). I think personal freedom and unfolding your personality includes full responsibility for your life AND death. However, comitting suicide is considered a crime in most countries, so is drug abuse (cause it\'s destructive and killing you). Medically assisted suicide is another issue.

What do you think about that, I consider the legalization of drugs a \"mature\" thing to do, as it decrimanalizes junkies and puts their health under their own responsibility. There\'s lots of other advantages considering the qualities of the drugs if they were taken awy from the black market. And medically assisted suicide in my opinion is not even worth the huge discussion, it really should be a human right to put an end to suffering and living in a humiliating condition.

Though most states agree on human rights and personal freedom, the conditions are given only to a certain extent. Shouldn\'t personal freedom include full responsibility (life and death), theoretically? So tell me how you feel about that

Article 29.

(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society

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29 / M / US
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Posted 4/11/07
Your talking about autonomy and freedom, concerning two main topics, 1) drugs, 2) euthanasia.

Might want to look into J.S. Mill, he was a philosopher big on human freedom.

I'm just going to type that you dealt with the two topics you raised very generally. There are diffrent kinds of drugs, as well as diffrent kinds of euthanasia, for instance, voluntary active euthanasia, and physician assisted suicide. The issues are not so clear cut as some might believe from reading your post.
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30 / Ronald McDonald's...
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Posted 4/11/07
^Yeah, I meant it to be a rather general discussion. About the drugs, either be it pot or heroine, they're illegal. And as far as I know, there's voluntary active and voluntary passive euthanasia, if that's what you were referring to. The passive euthanasia being for example withdrawal of life prolonging medical treatment and active euthanasia injecting the patient with poison or prescribing a deadly overdose. Anyway, the topic concerns any kind
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26 / M / NY
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Posted 4/11/07
*comment deleted* Read the forum rules.

~mauz15
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29 / M / US
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Posted 4/11/07
Well, the main point was that the considerations are diffrent for say, PAS vs. VAE. But, there are many ways to go about defining things. Sure, we can talk about active vs. passive, but we can also talk about voluntary, nonvoluntary, and involuntary.

I think there is already a thread about legalization of drugs, which I'm basically for regulating some. But, not all that firm a position as I don't know all that much about it. Dunno about a thread for euthanasia and related topics.

Dunno, maybe consider some case studies, which will probably help to bring out some of the difficulties.
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Posted 4/11/07
I found this thread, is that the one you're referring to?
http://www.crunchyroll.com/showforumtopic?id=1605
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29 / M / US
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Posted 4/11/07
haha, nope.
http://www.crunchyroll.com/showforumtopic?id=2811

"I think personal freedom and unfolding your personality includes full responsibility for your life AND death."

Some would argue that freedom in grounded in life, and that the choice to kill ones self is another matter. Once you do that, you end any freedom whatsoever. The main problem with this is though is that most people that want to end their lives want to out of depression. Most suiciders survive their attempts after all, as its often a cry for help. For special cases such as A guy severly burt, lost a eye and a leg asked to be killed. This is a real case and he was not allowed to die as the people chose not to as it was an emergancy case. Now he goes around lecuring about how he should have had the right. Well, honestly I doubt he will off himself after his lecture circut, so it seems like it was in his intrest to keep him alive. What do others thing about this case? Or what about the chronically ill, who are about to die anyway, I don't have problems there really as it will releave suffering. The problem is who is going to do it? Honestly, most doctors do not want to kill another person, and neither would I. This is a major part in why passive is legal, but active is not (in most places). But there are questions if there is really a difference. And well, I'm coving many topics and rambling so ill stop.
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30 / Ronald McDonald's...
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Posted 4/11/07
Well, I didn't actually raise the question if voluntary euthanasia is a good/bad thing. I meant, considering there's a human right concerning personal freedom, wouldn't it be a given that this includes the right to take drugs, commit suicide and make use of voluntary euthanasia? Like a logical consequence of this freedom?

^Edit: sorry, I didn't read the full post before. But I believe if it was a normal thing that people are in full responsibility of their lives and actually allowed to end their lives, it might not be such a big deal for others (doctors) to assist them. I mean death might be not such a big matter.
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28 / F / singapore
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Posted 4/11/07
wow. complicated. hm...i remeber reading somewhere about freedom and how the only way to be free is...i forget. but the gist is that...freedom comes with consequences...some which people who make choices do not think about at first. like drugs and suicide...they may be thinking about the quickest way out of the situation...but to do so...they are also intruding on other people's right. i mean what happens to their family and stuff? parents have a right to your life...seeing that they were the ones to give it to you in the first place. i'm not so sure. euthanasia...is a tough subject. if the person is conscious and wants to die...i think it's not a problem...esp in cases where medical costs are high...and the treatment causes a lot of discomfort...but when the person is unable to make a conscious decision what then??

sorry...long paragraph.
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29 / M / US
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Posted 4/11/07
Well thats how you can argue, but I don't particularly find it convincing. Its more important to consider what the best outcome is imo.

Just how far do you want to go with rights? Might want to look into libertarian philosophy.

I dealt with this a bit above, but only mentioned it.
Of course people can attempt to kill themselves, but do they have the right to end their own life at any time? Like I stated above they often try because they are depressed. So, we should stop them (momentarily) and try to help them, not say just say oh well its you who is deciding and we may as well let you off yourself due to your right of freedom. Note, again, that it depends on the context, and I prefer to take it case by case.
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30 / Ronald McDonald's...
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Posted 4/11/07
If they had the right to kill themselves, they should have the right to end it anytime. Of course the argument with the depressed people is true. They tend to be rash. But I can't take that into consideration right now. Aside from fickle personalities, shouldn't humans be trusted with their own judgement on the matter?

@everworld_gal I strongly disagree on the parents part. It was their choice to give birth, they'll have to put up with their child not wanting to live.

To line up some cases:

active and passive euthanasia (I'm not counting in unconscious patients)

1. Someone is incurably ill and the only thing they can expect for the rest of their lives is pain and so on.

2. someone is somewhat crippled or something like that, but is not actually going to die, still claims that life is not worth living that way.

Suicide:

1.Chronically depressed

2. After reflecting on life they came to the conclusion that this world is nothing for them /they've nothing that ties them to life / the quality of life is too low for their standarts and there's nothing they can do about it

drugs

1. whatever reason, they need it to to get by
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Posted 4/11/07
hmm... I think marajuana and illegal drugs should still stay illegal. Having it legal will offer wider access to it. There will be more wrecks on the road because of drugs and people driving when they are high. sometimes being high can make people irrational and violent.

I think that suicide should no be offered to anyone unless they are dying of a chronic illness and don't want to suffer. In any other case it is the same as murder.
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28 / F / singapore
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Posted 4/11/07
so i guess the question should be what is freedom? how do you define it...i guess it's only then that one can properly argue about it.
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Posted 4/11/07
^ agreed. I guess there is no such thing as real freedom. Because if we were free to do what we want then there would be no laws.
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43 / M / US
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Posted 4/11/07
"Freedom without limitations is just a word"

This sums it all up really. Freedom is one thing, but without any limits, your looking at anarchy. Laws are in place to protect people. The subject of assited suicide is under constant moral and philisophical debate. I personnaly won't touch it with a 10 foot pole - it only leads to endless arguement.

The subject of drugs is also one under constant debate - but I can not see any reason to leagalize them except for medicinal purposes in certain cases. They hurt not only the person taking them, but those people around said individual also. This is all I will say on the subject though - it is not something you can tackle with a persuasive essay to convince or even really inform. People already have in their own mind what they believe and usually will not be swayed by any external influence short of experience.

-My 2 cents-
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