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questions for christains
Posted 10/12/08

Yes.
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Posted 10/12/08
". . . and began to be sorrowful and very depressed. Then saith he unto them, ‘my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death' . . ."

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 26: 37-39

"And being in an agony, he prayed more earnestly;
and his sweat was, as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground’’

(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:44

Is Jesus (peace be upon him) crying to save his skin?

Did he not advise others:


"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out . . . And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 5:29-30
Posted 10/12/08 , edited 10/12/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


ShroomInferno wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


digs wrote:

Jesus as a human, didn't want to suffer on the cross and begged God for another way. There was no other way, and Jesus still went and died for you.


I disagree. I think that there were other ways, but that God selected this one for a particular reason. By letting his son suffer God gave us a savior who we could relate to. It allows us to become closer to God. Kind of like creating some common ground in a relationship.


hm, looks like god would do EVERYTHING to get people on his side, he did even go so far to make his own son get crucified to make people recognize him. that's messed up. sounds like a typical power-hungry bastard. from what i see there is nothing merciful about this god mentioned in the bible.


I think you’re purposefully misinterpreting the context of the action. Jesus Christ went willingly to die. Jesus Christ was the son of God-but he was also God himself. On normal terms that doesn't make sense, but Christianity is a mystic religion. It was a self-sacrifice for which I’m grateful.

This being said, you’re free to your beliefs…though, I’d like to see a bit more prudence.

P.S:

Dig the funky avi!


damn it, you noticed it!

i doubt that someone goes willingly to die. for that matter, unless jesus was suicidal, our survival instinct is too strong. but anyway, the circumstances jesus found himself in, were too important, to just simply run away. people had high expectations of him, he who is the son of god. imagine, what would have happened if he'd simply run away, and leave everything behind? his father would have been very disappointed, and of course, his worshippers/followers, too. maybe his followers would have wanted him not to die at first, but they surely realised very soon, that this was the best that could happen. other than that, his sacrifice was in vain, people are wasted more than ever....secondly, i believe that people tend to make this religion more mystical than it actually is. if you ponder about something for too long, you get eventually deluded, and lose oversight. that's when you start to deform an easy equation into a labyrinth of endless possibilities ~ 1+1 = 3. holy shit, how did that become a 3?

btw, i thought you was atheist? at least...you stated something like that in one of your other threads. *cough cough*

my word choice might be rude, but that's the best way to emphasis something. and quite frankly, i don't believe that someone would be so pure to sacrifice something dear to them without expecting to gain something from it.


edit: oh and thank you ; ) so far everyone just criticised my poorly self-made photoshop creation.
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Posted 10/12/08

Real_ZERO wrote:

". . . and began to be sorrowful and very depressed. Then saith he unto them, ‘my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death' . . ."

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 26: 37-39

"And being in an agony, he prayed more earnestly;
and his sweat was, as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground’’

(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:44

Is Jesus (peace be upon him) crying to save his skin?

Did he not advise others:


"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out . . . And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 5:29-30


The first to verses show how much Jesus loves us and willingly suffered a death that we deserve. God in the flesh willingly taking upon Himself all the sins of mankind and then dying a brutal death for us. Jesus (as any human) naturally did not want to die through crucifixion, yet He still did it. The bottom verses you quoted from Matthew 5 have been taken out of context. Here are the full verses.


Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell. Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

It is talking about sin. The verse preceding it is Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. The Bible is stating that it is better to remove what causes sin, than to allow sin. It isn't literally saying to tear your eyes out to prevent lust, but it is showing how God views sin, and that we should strive to live a repentant life before Jesus Christ our Lord.
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Posted 10/12/08

digs wrote:


Real_ZERO wrote:

". . . and began to be sorrowful and very depressed. Then saith he unto them, ‘my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death' . . ."

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 26: 37-39

"And being in an agony, he prayed more earnestly;
and his sweat was, as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground’’

(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:44

Is Jesus (peace be upon him) crying to save his skin?

Did he not advise others:


"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out . . . And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 5:29-30


The first to verses show how much Jesus loves us and willingly suffered a death that we deserve. God in the flesh willingly taking upon Himself all the sins of mankind and then dying a brutal death for us. Jesus (as any human) naturally did not want to die through crucifixion, yet He still did it.


hmmm...
-If Jesus is God, why he need to pray?
-If he was not God yet, then When/How/Why he turned to be God?

What's about God be4 Jesus's birth?
(Suppose you(christians) beleive in Adam, David, Solomon,Moses, Jacob, Joseph... others peace be upon them whom had lived b4 Jesus's birth? what was their God? Is it supposed to God to change?
That means God who created the universe(heavens and the earth) and God in christianity are different since the universe was created b4 the creation of Adam(not Jesus )even.!



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Posted 10/12/08

Real_ZERO wrote:


digs wrote:


Real_ZERO wrote:

". . . and began to be sorrowful and very depressed. Then saith he unto them, ‘my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death' . . ."

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 26: 37-39

"And being in an agony, he prayed more earnestly;
and his sweat was, as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground’’

(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:44

Is Jesus (peace be upon him) crying to save his skin?

Did he not advise others:


"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out . . . And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 5:29-30


The first to verses show how much Jesus loves us and willingly suffered a death that we deserve. God in the flesh willingly taking upon Himself all the sins of mankind and then dying a brutal death for us. Jesus (as any human) naturally did not want to die through crucifixion, yet He still did it.


hmmm...
-If Jesus is God, why he need to pray?
-If he was not God yet, then When/How/Why he turned to be God?

What's about God be4 Jesus's birth?
(Suppose you(christians) beleive in Adam, David, Solomon,Moses, Jacob, Joseph... others peace be upon them whom had lived b4 Jesus's birth? what was their God? Is it supposed to God to change?
That means God who created the universe(heavens and the earth) and God in christianity are different since the universe was created b4 the creation of Adam(not Jesus )even.!





Jesus was 100% human and 100% God. Jesus was flesh, and He needed to Pray to our Father in heaven (who is also God) Jesus was tempted with things like we are, He prayed like we did. Jesus went through everything we did because He was human, yet He never once sinned. Jesus is the Messiah (the Christ) that was prophecies about through the scriptures. Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies to the very word, and His teachings are direct.

Jesus was God sense conception. Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born. Jesus' birth was a miracle. Jesus was always God even before His birth. He grew up as a normal child. It is evident in scripture. Luk 2:52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. Jesus learned and studied, and then understood that He is the Messiah. He was always God.

I pray that this verse helps explain things about the Trinity. Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jesus is the Word, from the beginning of time He was with God, and is God. The Holy Trinity is God. Three on One. God the Father is the creator, the Judge, God the Father is who Sent Jesus, and His Holy Name is Yawaeh. Jesus Christ is the Son, the Word, who is also God, who was with God from the Beginning, He is the Messiah and the Savior of the World. the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. He is the one who convicts hearts, who helps us. who works through us, who gives us life. The Holy Spirit lives in those who have been born again through Jesus Christ. All Three are One, yet each One is not the Other. The Holy Trinity is not something that our human minds can only comprehend. We are finite, and cannot understand very well what we have not physically witness. God's Wisdom far surpases our own. God loves you! I hope I was able to answer your questions, don't hesitate if you have any more.
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Posted 10/12/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


Aegis85 wrote:

why did jesus beg for his life to god when he was crucified?

why did the old testament prohibit eating pork while the new one allow?


1. As I understand he just asked why he'd been forsaken. Jesus didn't understand why he had to suffer-after all, he was in human form and could not fully comprehend the grandeur of God.

2.

Acts 10:9-19

9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.
10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. ”
12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.
13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.


thanks for the 1st question. but umm...nevermind

as for the 2nd one, "all kinds of four-footed animals"
“Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
that still doesnt mean pork is allowed right? he cant kill all. he had to choose right? and was peter a vegetarian before? jesus prohibit eating pork before. and whose voice is that. satan himself also can pretend himself as god. u know, like... sometimes devil's words sounds like an angel's.
that's still questionable for me.

and why did other of ur christian friends reply me differently. that gives me lotsa confusion.
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Posted 10/12/08

digs wrote:
Jesus was God sense conception. Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born. Jesus' birth was a miracle. Jesus was always God even before His birth. He grew up as a normal child. It is evident in scripture. Luk 2:52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. Jesus learned and studied, and then understood that He is the Messiah. He was always God.


talking about that. a question just came to my mind. besides jesus, did mathew also born from a virgin mother? why isnt he accepted as god's son?
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ShroomInferno wrote:

damn it, you noticed it!

i doubt that someone goes willingly to die. for that matter, unless jesus was suicidal, our survival instinct is too strong. but anyway, the circumstances jesus found himself in, were too important, to just simply run away. people had high expectations of him, he who is the son of god. imagine, what would have happened if he'd simply run away, and leave everything behind? his father would have been very disappointed, and of course, his worshippers/followers, too. maybe his followers would have wanted him not to die at first, but they surely realised very soon, that this was the best that could happen. other than that, his sacrifice was in vain, people are wasted more than ever....secondly, i believe that people tend to make this religion more mystical than it actually is. if you ponder about something for too long, you get eventually deluded, and lose oversight. that's when you start to deform an easy equation into a labyrinth of endless possibilities ~ 1+1 = 3. holy shit, how did that become a 3?

btw, i thought you was atheist? at least...you stated something like that in one of your other threads. *cough cough*

my word choice might be rude, but that's the best way to emphasis something. and quite frankly, i don't believe that someone would be so pure to sacrifice something dear to them without expecting to gain something from it.


edit: oh and thank you ; ) so far everyone just criticised my poorly self-made photoshop creation.


I used to be an atheist. I’m not anymore. The thread you’re talking about was probably my secular analysis of prayer. I think the quote was, “As an atheist I always thought,” where that last word shows that the sentence is past tense. I guess it was misleading because a lot of people made that same mistake. Alas, now you know.

Anyway, Jesus Christ’s followers certainly wouldn’t have wanted him to die. We can agree on that. However, even if Jesus felt pressured into giving his life-it’s still giving his life, just under a different motivation. Also, psychologically analyzing the situation, I think your theorized motive is unlikely-though certainly possible. (This is history, we don’t -know- anything.)

Rather or not Jesus Christ was divine we can all agree that he was incredibly smart. Even if he was lying when he said that he was the son of God he was still a brilliant convict. Given the culture of that time…you’re not going to go around telling people you’re the son of the Jewish God without making some enemies. This is especially true if you’re convincing people on large scale, like Jesus did.

So, Jesus Christ doubtlessly knew that he was putting himself at risk very early on in his ‘career.’ I don’t think it’s likely that it was a spur of the moment thing. Doubtlessly, Jesus was prepared from the very beginning. So, I don’t feel it’s very likely that it was a decision made based on a sense of being pressured.

Besides, Jesus Christ was never one to give into pressure. There were many times when Jesus was being pressed to do one thing and-although he doubtlessly knew it would put him in harms way-did the opposite. One example is that he associated with Samaritans even though he was a Jew. He also had dinner with a hated tax collector.

So, why would Jesus give up his life if not for pressure? Well, there are a lot of answers we can come up with-but to be honest, I think there that there is only one that holds water:

Jesus truly believed that he was the son of god and his sin would redeem mankind.

He was either the son of God or completely crazy.
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Posted 10/12/08 , edited 10/12/08

digs wrote:


Real_ZERO wrote:


digs wrote:


Real_ZERO wrote:

". . . and began to be sorrowful and very depressed. Then saith he unto them, ‘my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death' . . ."

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 26: 37-39

"And being in an agony, he prayed more earnestly;
and his sweat was, as it were, great drops of blood falling down to the ground’’

(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:44

Is Jesus (peace be upon him) crying to save his skin?

Did he not advise others:


"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out . . . And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee; for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

(HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 5:29-30


The first to verses show how much Jesus loves us and willingly suffered a death that we deserve. God in the flesh willingly taking upon Himself all the sins of mankind and then dying a brutal death for us. Jesus (as any human) naturally did not want to die through crucifixion, yet He still did it.


hmmm...
-If Jesus is God, why he need to pray?
-If he was not God yet, then When/How/Why he turned to be God?

What's about God be4 Jesus's birth?
(Suppose you(christians) beleive in Adam, David, Solomon,Moses, Jacob, Joseph... others peace be upon them whom had lived b4 Jesus's birth? what was their God? Is it supposed to God to change?
That means God who created the universe(heavens and the earth) and God in christianity are different since the universe was created b4 the creation of Adam(not Jesus )even.!








digs wrote:
Jesus was God sense conception.

!

digs wrote:
Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born. Jesus' birth was a miracle.

Agree,

digs wrote:
Jesus was always God even before His birth.



digs wrote:
He grew up as a normal child. It is evident in scripture. Luk 2:52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. Jesus learned and studied, and then understood that He is the Messiah. He was always God.
I pray that this verse helps explain things about the Trinity. Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jesus is the Word, from the beginning of time He was with God, and is God. The Holy Trinity is God. Three on One. God the Father is the creator, the Judge, God the Father is who Sent Jesus, and His Holy Name is Yawaeh. Jesus Christ is the Son, the Word, who is also God, who was with God from the Beginning, He is the Messiah and the Savior of the World. the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. He is the one who convicts hearts, who helps us. who works through us, who gives us life. The Holy Spirit lives in those who have been born again through Jesus Christ. All Three are One, yet each One is not the Other. The Holy Trinity is not something that our human minds can only comprehend. We are finite, and cannot understand very well what we have not physically witness. God's Wisdom far surpases our own. God loves you! I hope I was able to answer your questions, don't hesitate if you have any more.


If Jesus (peace be upon him),,. was God,,, be4 His birth. why Jews don't beleive in Jesus as God


Principles of Faith:(Judaism) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism wrote:
I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, Blessed be His Name, is One, and that there is no unity in any manner like His, and that He alone is our God, who was, and is, and will be.


What is Christianity's view on Judaism?


digs wrote:
Jesus was 100% human and 100% God.

Give me a break 100%= 100/100 (complete)...contradiction!
Or, maybe you're talking about two different matters (Jesus is 100% human and God is 100% God).

So there're three cases, one of them is just the true.
1-Jesus was 100% God (nay, He was praying as a human, he was born as human(born) but[his birth was a miracle like any other God's apostles, who came with different miracles from God , he had eaten food as a human ...etc)
2-Jesus was 50% human 50% God. (How would be that? ridiculous.)
3-Jesus was 100% human.(That's the sensible, according to 1)

Thanks digs.
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Aegis85 wrote:

thanks for the 1st question. but umm...nevermind

as for the 2nd one, "all kinds of four-footed animals"
“Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
that still doesnt mean pork is allowed right? he cant kill all. he had to choose right? and was peter a vegetarian before? jesus prohibit eating pork before. and whose voice is that. satan himself also can pretend himself as god. u know, like... sometimes devil's words sounds like an angel's.
that's still questionable for me.

and why did other of ur christian friends reply me differently. that gives me lotsa confusion.



Well, the reason you got a lot of different answers is because you’re asking questions on the internet. To top it off, you’re asking questions on a publicly accessible forum attached to a page for streaming Japanese media. People mean well, but you can’t really rely on everything you hear. Crunchy Roll is not, by any stretch of the imagination, the best place to be asking questions.

In this case I was just giving you the biblical answer. Satan can sound like God, I’m sure, but the whole concept behind Christianity is that the God to whom we pray, “your will be done,” returns, “my will is that you trust the sources I have revealed to you.” Protestants feel that the bible main source that God has revealed to us. Catholics feel that the church is the main source.

So, yes, what you said truly is a technical possibility. That’s where faith comes in. Why do Christians have faith? There are various reasons. Originally my faith was based on logic. Now it’s based on personal experience. I feel that I’ve experienced God’s presence, his grace. I believe I can trust him.

Pork is made out of pig, and pigs are a four footed animal. God did not forbid people to eat pork, he forbade them to eat four footed creatures and animals with cloven hooves. So, they couldn’t eat pork because they can’t eat pigs. Whenever the veil was lowered, however, God told him to eat of the four footed animals and all of these other creatures that had been viewed as impure.

I’m sure he wouldn’t have been able to eat them all. However, God gave him permission to eat any of them. Imagine you’re a small child at a table. Sitting before you is a plate of candy. Next to it is a scrumptious steak. Next to that is a galleon of ice cream.

You say, “Can I eat this stuff mommy?”

Mommy says, “Yes.”

You now have permission to eat anything specified before you. In this case, the previously ‘unclean food.’ In your case, even if you can’t eat it all at once, you’re allowed to eat candy, ice cream, and steak.

In other words, the law no longer applied. It was no longer necessary. Have you ever heard a preacher say, “Jesus nailed the law to the cross?”

Before Christ the followers of our theological line (The Jews,) had a lot of mitzvah and rituals that no longer apply because Jesus redeemed us from them. One example is that Christians don’t sacrifice goats.

It’s no longer necessary. In the same way, it’s no longer necessary to abstain from eating pigs-and by extension, pork-which is made from pig.


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which means christians today not following 100% jesus teaching(?)
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SeraphAlford wrote:


ShroomInferno wrote:

damn it, you noticed it!

i doubt that someone goes willingly to die. for that matter, unless jesus was suicidal, our survival instinct is too strong. but anyway, the circumstances jesus found himself in, were too important, to just simply run away. people had high expectations of him, he who is the son of god. imagine, what would have happened if he'd simply run away, and leave everything behind? his father would have been very disappointed, and of course, his worshippers/followers, too. maybe his followers would have wanted him not to die at first, but they surely realised very soon, that this was the best that could happen. other than that, his sacrifice was in vain, people are wasted more than ever....secondly, i believe that people tend to make this religion more mystical than it actually is. if you ponder about something for too long, you get eventually deluded, and lose oversight. that's when you start to deform an easy equation into a labyrinth of endless possibilities ~ 1+1 = 3. holy shit, how did that become a 3?

btw, i thought you was atheist? at least...you stated something like that in one of your other threads. *cough cough*

my word choice might be rude, but that's the best way to emphasis something. and quite frankly, i don't believe that someone would be so pure to sacrifice something dear to them without expecting to gain something from it.


edit: oh and thank you ; ) so far everyone just criticised my poorly self-made photoshop creation.


I used to be an atheist. I’m not anymore. The thread you’re talking about was probably my secular analysis of prayer. I think the quote was, “As an atheist I always thought,” where that last word shows that the sentence is past tense. I guess it was misleading because a lot of people made that same mistake. Alas, now you know.

Anyway, Jesus Christ’s followers certainly wouldn’t have wanted him to die. We can agree on that. However, even if Jesus felt pressured into giving his life-it’s still giving his life, just under a different motivation. Also, psychologically analyzing the situation, I think your theorized motive is unlikely-though certainly possible. (This is history, we don’t -know- anything.)

Rather or not Jesus Christ was divine we can all agree that he was incredibly smart. Even if he was lying when he said that he was the son of God he was still a brilliant convict. Given the culture of that time…you’re not going to go around telling people you’re the son of the Jewish God without making some enemies. This is especially true if you’re convincing people on large scale, like Jesus did.

So, Jesus Christ doubtlessly knew that he was putting himself at risk very early on in his ‘career.’ I don’t think it’s likely that it was a spur of the moment thing. Doubtlessly, Jesus was prepared from the very beginning. So, I don’t feel it’s very likely that it was a decision made based on a sense of being pressured.

Besides, Jesus Christ was never one to give into pressure. There were many times when Jesus was being pressed to do one thing and-although he doubtlessly knew it would put him in harms way-did the opposite. One example is that he associated with Samaritans even though he was a Jew. He also had dinner with a hated tax collector.

So, why would Jesus give up his life if not for pressure? Well, there are a lot of answers we can come up with-but to be honest, I think there that there is only one that holds water:

Jesus truly believed that he was the son of god and his sin would redeem mankind.

He was either the son of God or completely crazy.


wait, i'm thinking of something. wasnt it's better if he just run away? he could still become a messenger...a prophet. come to think about it, did jesus really said he's the child of god? and i'm thinking god can still take him alive, take him to heaven and leave a duplicate of him to be crucified...hmmmm
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Aegis85 wrote:


wait, i'm thinking of something. wasnt it's better if he just run away? he could still become a messenger...a prophet. come to think about it, did jesus really said he's the child of god? and i'm thinking god can still take him alive, take him to heaven and leave a duplicate of him to be crucified...hmmmm


You’re a Muslim, aren’t you?
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Aegis85 wrote:

which means christians today not following 100% jesus teaching(?)


What're you talking about?
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