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Why is Avatar on Crunchyroll?
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Posted 11/15/06
I'll play devil's advocate here and try my best to defend "Avatar: The Last Airbender" for being here.

1. If we're strictly talking overall quality, then there are many many worse shows that are on this site. I could even cite Naruto as an example and I'd doubt few people could argue that, considering how that anime is shooting itself in the foot, along with its fans' feet too.

2. If we're debating the definition of what is an anime, then: the word "anime" is popularly used outside of Japan to describe animation from Japan. However, the real people who should have any say on what "anime" is, i.e. people in Japan, use the word to refer to any animation.

Thus, a fair compromise of its definition would be an animation which is heavily inspired and influenced by definitive Japanese animation. This would exclude Danny Phantom or Teen Titans, both shows that no one would consider "heavily inspired and influenced by definitive Japanese animation".

3. Keep in mind that anime probably no longer has to actually come from Japan to remain an anime in these modern times. What an anime is on screen, even if it can't be defined, is clear and preset, not an evolving theme. If we were to take Naruto (a clearly mainstream anime), retain everything about it except that all things concerning its production were moved to India (i.e. artists moved to India etc), it would clearly not change whether Naruto is an anime or not.

4. If we're debating the degree of legality here, fansubs are inherently illegal. They're justified by the makers by a "code of ethics". A "code of ethics" is NOT law. The idea is that they're only subbing and distributing freely, to areas where the show is not easily available in a preferred format, or licensed within the country. But the fact remains, if something is COPYRIGHTED, any unlicensed distribution outside the country is in fact ILLEGAL.

There's my opening argument, i'd enjoy a rebuttal considering that was just an off the top of my head defense, illustrating what everyone already pretty much knows, but putting it down on "paper". Feel free to contradict anything I said if you're more of an authority on it.
Posted 11/15/06
how does no one cares what you think because the people who really hate avatar arent going to listen to anyone but themselves lol



Trevor (OP)
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Posted 11/15/06

kyocool wrote:

how does no one cares what you think because the people who really hate avatar arent going to listen to anyone but themselves lol



Trevor (OP)


100% true! Go kyocool! ^_^
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Posted 11/15/06

entityrj wrote:
4. If we're debating the degree of legality here, fansubs are inherently illegal. They're justified by the makers by a "code of ethics". A "code of ethics" is NOT law. The idea is that they're only subbing and distributing freely, to areas where the show is not easily available in a preferred format, or licensed within the country. But the fact remains, if something is COPYRIGHTED, any unlicensed distribution outside the country is in fact ILLEGAL.


Nothing really to argue about this. It's just wrong. Fansubs ARE legal because its free.Look up the WTO Trips agreement. Its legal. A lot of the stuff you said is wrong, but this is an actualy there is an actualy document proving you are wrong. Animation in Japan is not ALL called anime. They have style like Ukiyoette (sp?) and many others and non are referred to as anime. Anime in Japan is considered cartoons IN JAPAN even by the creators. They don't refer to Batman or comicbook heroes anime either. You are right about one thing. Avatar is better than some things on here, but thats it. You really can't play Devil's Advocate by twisting facts.
Posted 11/15/06

bellus-vae wrote:


kyocool wrote:

how does no one cares what you think because the people who really hate avatar arent going to listen to anyone but themselves lol



Trevor (OP)


100% true! Go kyocool! ^_^



yea *high 5* wooot


trevor (OP)

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Posted 11/15/06

kyocool wrote:

how does no one cares what you think because the people who really hate avatar arent going to listen to anyone but themselves lol



Trevor (OP)


Sigh, you're probably right lol but I did my best. I don't think most of the avatar haters out there have actually watched it though, based on some of their comments about the show.

Most of the "hate" seems to be from anime "purists". I try my best to be objective. You really have to suffer through bad parts so you can "earn" the right to criticize something. (i.e. Dragonball Z fights/dialogue).
Posted 11/15/06
yea i dont have anything against the show itself i just dont believe it should be on here based on the fact its not anime. If we let this show on then eventually people might start uploading other shows that try to emulate anime such as teen titans or powerpuff girls and that would be ridiculous



Trevor (OP)
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Posted 11/15/06

arx7arbalest wrote:

Nothing really to argue about this. It's just wrong. Fansubs ARE legal because its free.Look up the WTO Trips agreement. Its legal. A lot of the stuff you said is wrong, but this is an actualy there is an actualy document proving you are wrong. Animation in Japan is not ALL called anime. They have style like Ukiyoette (sp?) and many others and non are referred to as anime. Anime in Japan is considered cartoons IN JAPAN even by the creators. They don't refer to Batman or comicbook heroes anime either. You are right about one thing. Avatar is better than some things on here, but thats it. You really can't play Devil's Advocate by twisting facts.


Ah that was fast, thanks for the input then, i've got zero legal experience.

1. In japan, the word anime literally means animation. Thus, they use it to refer to any animation, not just within japan. So of course, batman and comic books are not anime...

2. What article in WTO (trips) are you referring to where it talks about fansubbing being legal? I was fairly sure this was muddy water.

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Posted 11/15/06

kyocool wrote:
yea i dont have anything against the show itself i just dont believe it should be on here based on the fact its not anime. If we let this show on then eventually people might start uploading other shows that try to emulate anime such as teen titans or powerpuff girls and that would be ridiculous
Trevor (OP)


I understand that, and I can definitely see your point but...
We know what anime is right? If japan releases a new anime, it doesn't change the definition of anime. you know that's true but why? Because the style of anime is already clearly defined. It was defined by late 20th century animation in Japan. Take for example Thundercats, which was made in Japan back then but CLEARLY not anime.

In that same breath, everyone would agree powerpuff girls and teen titans is not anime. the argument here is clearly only about avatar. Is it anime or isn't it anime?

To answer that question, I've shown that we know what anime is when we see it. It's also a fact that many many people believe it is an anime. How many people need to believe it is an anime before it actually is an anime? How many people know it is an anime when they see it, before it actually is an anime? If there's enough people who honestly believe it is, then isn't it?

We already know that animation from Japan can be "not anime". We already know what anime is when we SEE it. Why can't something NOT from japan but stylistically an anime when seen in the opinions of many, be an anime?

I contend and lay before you then that Avatar: The Last Airbender can be called an anime.
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Posted 11/15/06
1. Well anime in Japan by definition does mean animation, but you said the people in japan would refer to any animation as anime and they wouldn't because they only refer modern cartoons, what we refer to as anime, in their country as anime. They don't use the term anime towards ALL animation. Note the Ukiyoette reference.

2. I sure as hell am not reading that long ass WTO trips thing again. I do know though that it is only illegal if its spread around for profit.
Posted 11/15/06
i understand what your saying but for me @ least i dont know about everyone else theres just something about watching anime its alot different than any other cartoons. Honestly when i watched avatar i felt it to be a cartoon i mean like reboot yea it had a story and it wasnt episodic but i just never felt that anime vibe and i think alot of people consider it an anime because of all the strong asian undertones in the show i feel that has alot to do with it. Not that everyone thinks that but for some that aids to their reasoning on why its an anime to them.


Trevor (OP)
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Posted 11/15/06
Hmm, Well thanks kyocool and arx7arbalest. I liked your opinions too and I definitely see where you're coming from Trevor. Fact is if you don't think it is an anime, then you're right it doesn't belong here.

That was fun lol, I rest my case, defeated or sound and I'll agree with whatever shinji decides to do in the end.
Posted 11/15/06
lol well avatar has been up on here for a good month or so soo i think hes allowing it. So in essence shinji probabaly shares your opinion to some extent since its not taken down or maybe he just allowed it to see others reactions and a few have given alot of good talk about it, so he kept it up who knows. I still pray to shinji before i go to sleep regardless what he decides



Trevor (OP)
Posted 11/22/06
i've only seen a few eps of avatar and i think they were in season 2 or 3, dunno but it wasnt one, and they were pretty intense, much better than i expected


arx7arbalest wrote:

OMG I started watching Avatar and ITS SOME SAVE THE WORLD SHIT. Let's all start considering justice league and teen titans anime now. How about Danny Phantom because everything iwth spiky hair is anime.


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Posted 11/22/06
fuck avatar: the last baldheaded clownshit
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