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Christianity a copy cat religion?
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Posted 10/29/08

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

Stories of gods born of virgins are to be found in nearly every age and country. There have been many virgin mothers, and Mary with her child is but a recent version of a very old and universal myth. In China and India, in Babylonia and Egypt, in Greece and Rome, "divine" beings selected from among the daughters of men the purest and most beautiful to serve them as a means of entrance into the world of mortals. Wishing to take upon themselves the human form, while retaining at the same time their "divinity," this compromise -- of an earthly mother with a "divine" father -- was effected. In the form of a swan Jupiter approached Leda, as in the guise of a dove, or a Paracletug, Jehovah "overshadowed" Mary.
A nymph bathing in a river in China is touched by a lotus plant, and the divine Fohi is born.

In Siam, a wandering sunbeam caresses a girl in her teens, and the great and wonderful deliverer, Codom, is born. In the life of Buddha we read that he descended on his mother Maya, "in likeness as the heavenly queen, and entered her womb," and was born from her right side, to save the world." [Stories of Virgin Births. Reference: Lord Macartney. Voyage dans 'interview de la Chine et en Tartarie. Vol. I p. 48. See also Les Vierges Meres et les Naissance Miraculeuse. P. Saintyves. p. 19, etc.] In Greece, the young god Apollo visits a fair maid of Athens, and a Plato is ushered into the world.

In ancient Mexico, as well as in Babylonia, and in modern Corea, as in modern Palestine, as in the legends of all lands, virgins gave birth and became divine mothers. But the real home of virgin births is the land of the Nile. Eighteen hundred years before Christ, we find carved on one of the walls of the great temple of Luxor a picture of the annunciation, conception and birth of King Amunothph III, an almost exact copy of the annunciation, conception and birth of the Christian God. Of course no one will think of maintaining that the Egyptians borrowed the idea from the Catholics nearly two thousand years before the Christian era. "The story in the Gospel of Luke, the first and second chapters is," says Malvert, "a reproduction, 'point by point,' of the story in stone of the miraculous birth of Amunothph."


Sharpe in his Egyptian Mythology, page 19, gives the following description of the, Luxor picture, quoted by G.W. Foote in his 'Bible Romances,' page 126: "In this picture we have the annunciation, the conception, the birth and the adoration, as described in the first and second chapters of Luke's Gospel." Massey gives a more minute description of the Luxor picture. "The first scene on the left hand shows the god Taht, the divine Wolrd or Loges, in the act of hailing the virgin queen, announcing to her that she is to give birth to a son. In the second scene the god Kneph (assisted by Hathor) gives life to her. This is the Holy Ghost, or Spirit that causes conception. ... Next the mother is seated on the midwife's stool, and the child is supported in the hands of one of the nurses. The fourth scene is that of the adoration. Here the child is enthroned, receiving homage from the gods and gifts from men." [Natural Geneses. Massey, Vol. II, p. 398.] The picture on the wall of the Luxor temple, then, is one of the sources to which the anonymous writers of the Gospels went for their miraculous story. It is no wonder they suppressed their own identity as well as the source from which they borrowed their material.

Not only the idea of a virgin mother, but all the other miraculous events, such as the stable cradle, the guiding star, the massacre of the children, the flight to Egypt, and the resurrection and bodily ascension toward the clouds, have not only been borrowed, but are even scarcely altered in the New Testament story of Jesus.

That the early Christians borrowed the legend of Jesus from earthly sources is too evident to be even questioned. Gerald Massey in his great work on Egyptian origins demonstrates the identity of Mary, the mother of Jesus, with Isis, the mother of Horus. He says: "The most ancient, goldbedizened, smoke-stained Byzantine pictures of the virgin and child represent the mythical mother as Isis, and not as a human mother of Nazareth. [Vol. II, p. 487.] Science and research have made this fact so certain that, on the one hand ignorance, and on the other interest only, can continue to claim inspiration for the authors of the undated and unsigned fragmentary documents which pass for the Word of God. If, then, Jesus is stripped of all the borrowed legends and miracles of which he is the subject; and if we also take away from him all the teachings which collected from Jewish and Pagan sources have been attributed to him -- what will be left of him? That the ideas put in his mouth have been culled and compiled from other sources is as demonstrable as the Pagan origin of the legends related of him.

Nearly every one of the dogmas and ceremonies in the Christian cult were borrowed from other and older religions. The resurrection myth, the ascension, the eucharist, baptism, worship by kneeling or prostration, the folding of the hands on the breast, the ringing of bells and the burning of incense, the vestments and vessels used in church, the candles, "holy" water, -- even the word Mass, were all adopted and adapted by the Christians from the religions of the ancients. The Trinity is as much Pagan, as much Indian or Buddhist, as it is Christian. The idea of a Son of God is as old as 'the oldest cult. The sun is the son of heaven in all primitive faiths. The physical sun becomes in the course of evolution, the Son of Righteousness, or the Son of God, and heaven is personified as the Father on High. The halo around the head of Jesus, the horns of the older deities, the rays of light radiating from the heads of Hindu and Pagan gods are incontrovertible evidence that all gods were at one time -- the sun in heaven.

Whats a Christian cult? is that the same as the Christian religion we follow today?and the sun has nothing to do with Chrsitianity, though its amazing how you connected it in there ne way...

and ultimatly ALL religions can be traced back to a basic belief in the very first humans...all humans, reguardless of culture, share some similarities. Even the Native American's 1st religion had some seemingly "Christian" aspects to the Europeans when they first arrived in the new world. We also share music and martial arts in every culture...Some of the gods of the Aztec could be seen in ancient Chinese religions as well...the exact same gods, without having contact with each other...every country has its own fighting style...and most likely had its own army at one time...peace over war

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Posted 10/29/08
Religion is based on faith not fact. But does it really matter if Jesus or Buddha were real? NO, what should hold the most weight is the philosophy and the lessons of their teachings.
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Posted 10/29/08

JJT2 wrote:


excalion wrote:

I thought you were going to say scientology was a copy of Christianity. Hell they use pretty much the same scare tactics.


not all Christians used/use scare tactics...it didnt start off as a religion that scared people into ne thing...and u werent born in that time so you wouldnt know ne way...as for scientology...well...you could have been born then...peace over war


Christianity didn't start off as a religion that scared people into anything? Now now, you cant be serious about that?

What aspect of Christianity doesn't scare people? Is it Original Sin? The concept that it doesn't matter whether you've done anything bad or not, but you're still guilty of something, and that guilt will doom you to eternal hellfire if you do not repent?

Or is it the fact that being a Christian can be a cause for an easier life in the American society, both career-wise and social acceptability? While being an atheist detracts from your opportunities to pursue your life goals?
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Posted 10/29/08

excalion wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


excalion wrote:

I thought you were going to say scientology was a copy of Christianity. Hell they use pretty much the same scare tactics.


not all Christians used/use scare tactics...it didnt start off as a religion that scared people into ne thing...and u werent born in that time so you wouldnt know ne way...as for scientology...well...you could have been born then...peace over war


Christianity didn't start off as a religion that scared people into anything? Now now, you cant be serious about that?

What aspect of Christianity doesn't scare people? Is it Original Sin? The concept that it doesn't matter whether you've done anything bad or not, but you're still guilty of something, and that guilt will doom you to eternal hellfire if you do not repent?

Or is it the fact that being a Christian can be a cause for an easier life in the American society, both career-wise and social acceptability? While being an atheist detracts from your opportunities to pursue your life goals?


"Christianity didn't start off as a religion that scared people into anything? Now now, you cant be serious about that?"

It started in the Middle East by a guy named Jesus.When the early Europeans got thier hands on it, it degraded into something rather viscous and it became a tool to control people.


"What aspect of Christianity doesn't scare people? Is it Original Sin? The concept that it doesn't matter whether you've done anything bad or not, but you're still guilty of something, and that guilt will doom you to eternal hellfire if you do not repent?"

Different people r scared of different things.Like i said about those early Europeans, they used Chrsitianity for all of the wrong reasons...(some of it still goes on today). It was meant to cause humility, not fear...If Jesus didnt teach it that way, then Christians shouldnt either...Jesus didnt start wars/ kill people with his religous beliefs either...

"Or is it the fact that being a Christian can be a cause for an easier life in the American society, both career-wise and social acceptability? While being an atheist detracts from your opportunities to pursue your life goals?"

Christianity has nothing to do with racism, prejudice, and discrimination. Those early Europeans used chrsitianity to justify everythnig/anything they did...it was used to justify slavery as well...That was never what Jesus intended.Americans are well known for thier racists, discriminatory, and prejudice beliefs.Christianity should be used to defeat those beliefs, not enforce them. Peace over war

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Posted 10/29/08
I read of an article where they discovered an ancient script that depicts a Messianic figure, one that is a warrior priest. The script was dated before Christ.
But then again, lots of things were based off another, so this is not a surprise for an avid archeological major or reader.
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Posted 10/29/08

JJT2 wrote:


excalion wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


excalion wrote:

I thought you were going to say scientology was a copy of Christianity. Hell they use pretty much the same scare tactics.


not all Christians used/use scare tactics...it didnt start off as a religion that scared people into ne thing...and u werent born in that time so you wouldnt know ne way...as for scientology...well...you could have been born then...peace over war


Christianity didn't start off as a religion that scared people into anything? Now now, you cant be serious about that?

What aspect of Christianity doesn't scare people? Is it Original Sin? The concept that it doesn't matter whether you've done anything bad or not, but you're still guilty of something, and that guilt will doom you to eternal hellfire if you do not repent?

Or is it the fact that being a Christian can be a cause for an easier life in the American society, both career-wise and social acceptability? While being an atheist detracts from your opportunities to pursue your life goals?


"Christianity didn't start off as a religion that scared people into anything? Now now, you cant be serious about that?"

It started in the Middle East by a guy named Jesus.When the early Europeans got thier hands on it, it degraded into something rather viscous and it became a tool to control people.


"What aspect of Christianity doesn't scare people? Is it Original Sin? The concept that it doesn't matter whether you've done anything bad or not, but you're still guilty of something, and that guilt will doom you to eternal hellfire if you do not repent?"

Different people r scared of different things.Like i said about those early Europeans, they used Chrsitianity for all of the wrong reasons...(some of it still goes on today). It was meant to cause humility, not fear...If Jesus didnt teach it that way, then Christians shouldnt either...Jesus didnt start wars/ kill people with his religous beliefs either...

"Or is it the fact that being a Christian can be a cause for an easier life in the American society, both career-wise and social acceptability? While being an atheist detracts from your opportunities to pursue your life goals?"

Christianity has nothing to do with racism, prejudice, and discrimination. Those early Europeans used chrsitianity to justify everythnig/anything they did...it was used to justify slavery as well...That was never what Jesus intended.Americans are well known for thier racists, discriminatory, and prejudice beliefs.Christianity should be used to defeat those beliefs, not enforce them. Peace over war



After reading your response, I realized the majority of our differences in opinion stem from the fact that you believe Christianity to be truth, and the religion is founded and personally taught by Jesus himself. While I believe Christianity to be just a book written by a master-manipulative mind ages ago that used the ideas of heaven, hell, sin and God to persuade(Read: scare) millions of people into believing his book.

However, I have a question for you, is there any reason I should have faith in Christianity being true and that Jesus sacrificed himself, stemming from anything other than "It is written in the Bible that..."?

And my second question, do you think that is sufficient evidence to cause to believe something as far-fetched from daily life and established physical properties as the idea of God, the Holy Trinity, Hell, Heaven, Satan, Angels and so on?
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Posted 10/30/08 , edited 10/30/08

JJT2 wrote:


makix wrote:

Once you can grasp around the fact that most religion has been made up in the past as a means of controlling the mass, you can accept that fact that most religions originate from beliefs and stories from the earliest civilizations. (Example, Egypt when Pharaohs and all that good stuff existed)


not all religions was made to control people (not Christianity ne way), Christianity started in the middle easts, Europeans took it in and did all kinds of crap to it...ultimatly abusing it until Martin Luther stepped in started the chance...peace over war



Ohhh, you think Christianity wasn't used to control people? You need to read your history son, and none of that dumb stupid eurocentric textbook crap that you are required to read in your shit-institutionalized educational facilities (AKA, K-12 education). Go find a real book about Eurocentrism and how Christianity paved the way for moral and physical enslavement. Judging from your previous responses that I painfully read in agony and disgust, you're a grade A manipulated retard (And this is a euphemism to what I really want to say to you). Then again, I should probably make a career out of manipulating people like you for easy and pathetic money. Darn... my moral ethics are getting in the way of my intellectual prowess.

Ever hear of Pat Robertson? This guy makes millions of money off of "donations for his spiritual crusade". This is pretty much neo-slavery since wealth is power these days; then again, this isn't slavery in another sense because there's actually people stupid enough to give money to this jackass along with other hypocrite evangelical activists. But in general, it's very similar to slavery. Having a vast number of people kneeling to you because they believe that you're superior. The "YOU WILL GO TO HELL" is their whip and "BLESS YOU BLESSED SOUL!" is their oatmeal mush which they feed you.
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You know, I have to say, does anyone ever stop and think about the creator/divine being/god ==, we keep making him/her/thing into what we want, as if he's your property to manipulate. Really, the overall objective of religion is rather political, a means of controlling the masses, look at the reference of Jesus being a shepherd and the masses being sheep, feels as if he's the one who's leading us to the butcher. Admit it Christians, your religion is just one of the many religions and also one of the political control ideology.
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mikejacobs wrote:

You know, I have to say, does anyone ever stop and think about the creator/divine being/god ==, we keep making him/her/thing into what we want, as if he's your property to manipulate. Really, the overall objective of religion is rather political, a means of controlling the masses, look at the reference of Jesus being a shepherd and the masses being sheep, feels as if he's the one who's leading us to the butcher. Admit it Christians, your religion is just one of the many religions and also one of the political control ideology.


Hence,

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."- Napoleon Bonaparte.
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Posted 10/30/08

Eririel wrote:


mikejacobs wrote:

You know, I have to say, does anyone ever stop and think about the creator/divine being/god ==, we keep making him/her/thing into what we want, as if he's your property to manipulate. Really, the overall objective of religion is rather political, a means of controlling the masses, look at the reference of Jesus being a shepherd and the masses being sheep, feels as if he's the one who's leading us to the butcher. Admit it Christians, your religion is just one of the many religions and also one of the political control ideology.


Hence,

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."- Napoleon Bonaparte.


Got to love my personal stalker, for he usually provides a good quote.
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Posted 10/30/08

mikejacobs wrote:


Eririel wrote:


mikejacobs wrote:

You know, I have to say, does anyone ever stop and think about the creator/divine being/god ==, we keep making him/her/thing into what we want, as if he's your property to manipulate. Really, the overall objective of religion is rather political, a means of controlling the masses, look at the reference of Jesus being a shepherd and the masses being sheep, feels as if he's the one who's leading us to the butcher. Admit it Christians, your religion is just one of the many religions and also one of the political control ideology.


Hence,

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."- Napoleon Bonaparte.


Got to love my personal stalker, for he usually provides a good quote.

Your so lucky to have one!
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Posted 10/30/08 , edited 10/30/08

JJT2 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

'NO real evidence for Jesus! None at all. 0 is the number of evidence for a Jesus person from the bible.' NO one at his time even spoke of a Jesus! Such a person yet at the time no one talked about him. Sounds fishy to me.'


there is evidence for Jesus, and besides, if he didnt start Christianity who did? What country r u from? Who ever started Christianity is "Jesus"...Jesus represents the firsts person to start the religion..which was deprived from Jewdisms...peace over war


Would you like to show some Evidence for this person? You know using some "real evidence".
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Posted 10/30/08

SaigonSon wrote:

Religion is based on faith not fact. But does it really matter if Jesus or Buddha were real? NO, what should hold the most weight is the philosophy and the lessons of their teachings.
And what does it teach? Its can be translated any way they want. SO one person gets out of the bible that murder and rape is ok as long as those that he killed and raped are not Christian. Others might get out of the Bible that its ok to kill kids for laughing at a bald guy. . So tell me what did the bible teach you?

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Posted 10/30/08

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


SaigonSon wrote:

Religion is based on faith not fact. But does it really matter if Jesus or Buddha were real? NO, what should hold the most weight is the philosophy and the lessons of their teachings.
And what does it teach? Its can be translated any way they want. SO one person gets out of the bible that murder and rape is ok as long as those that he killed and raped are not Christian. Others might get out of the Bible that its ok to kill kids for laughing at a bald guy. . So tell me what did the bible teach you?



Since I am a buddhist I cannot tell you what's in the bible. My point was that all religions have a relating foundation of moral values, thou shalt not kill, steal, etc... Of course there will always be those fanatics who will interpret the texts in the wrong way, but that's why they are crazy fanatics. But the arguement of Jesus being a real person is something I do not think is relevant to faith.
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Posted 10/30/08

excalion wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


excalion wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


excalion wrote:

I thought you were going to say scientology was a copy of Christianity. Hell they use pretty much the same scare tactics.


not all Christians used/use scare tactics...it didnt start off as a religion that scared people into ne thing...and u werent born in that time so you wouldnt know ne way...as for scientology...well...you could have been born then...peace over war


Christianity didn't start off as a religion that scared people into anything? Now now, you cant be serious about that?

What aspect of Christianity doesn't scare people? Is it Original Sin? The concept that it doesn't matter whether you've done anything bad or not, but you're still guilty of something, and that guilt will doom you to eternal hellfire if you do not repent?

Or is it the fact that being a Christian can be a cause for an easier life in the American society, both career-wise and social acceptability? While being an atheist detracts from your opportunities to pursue your life goals?


"Christianity didn't start off as a religion that scared people into anything? Now now, you cant be serious about that?"

It started in the Middle East by a guy named Jesus.When the early Europeans got thier hands on it, it degraded into something rather viscous and it became a tool to control people.


"What aspect of Christianity doesn't scare people? Is it Original Sin? The concept that it doesn't matter whether you've done anything bad or not, but you're still guilty of something, and that guilt will doom you to eternal hellfire if you do not repent?"

Different people r scared of different things.Like i said about those early Europeans, they used Chrsitianity for all of the wrong reasons...(some of it still goes on today). It was meant to cause humility, not fear...If Jesus didnt teach it that way, then Christians shouldnt either...Jesus didnt start wars/ kill people with his religous beliefs either...

"Or is it the fact that being a Christian can be a cause for an easier life in the American society, both career-wise and social acceptability? While being an atheist detracts from your opportunities to pursue your life goals?"

Christianity has nothing to do with racism, prejudice, and discrimination. Those early Europeans used chrsitianity to justify everythnig/anything they did...it was used to justify slavery as well...That was never what Jesus intended.Americans are well known for thier racists, discriminatory, and prejudice beliefs.Christianity should be used to defeat those beliefs, not enforce them. Peace over war



After reading your response, I realized the majority of our differences in opinion stem from the fact that you believe Christianity to be truth, and the religion is founded and personally taught by Jesus himself. While I believe Christianity to be just a book written by a master-manipulative mind ages ago that used the ideas of heaven, hell, sin and God to persuade(Read: scare) millions of people into believing his book.

However, I have a question for you, is there any reason I should have faith in Christianity being true and that Jesus sacrificed himself, stemming from anything other than "It is written in the Bible that..."?

And my second question, do you think that is sufficient evidence to cause to believe something as far-fetched from daily life and established physical properties as the idea of God, the Holy Trinity, Hell, Heaven, Satan, Angels and so on?


"After reading your response, I realized the majority of our differences in opinion stem from the fact that you believe Christianity to be truth, and the religion is founded and personally taught by Jesus himself. While I believe Christianity to be just a book written by a master-manipulative mind ages ago that used the ideas of heaven, hell, sin and God to persuade(Read: scare) millions of people into believing his book."

Based on evidence of the Bible itsself and ALL of its messages, its origin, the ways its teached today, European mind set of the middle ages,ect. Christianity is a religion, belief, and way of life.the Bible is just a book. and there is no evidence of any use of scare tactics in its orign outside of Europe.The bible can be used in many ways, like ne object, but it was created as the basis of a religion that teaches morality above all.Christianity is defined as a religion.Early Europeans used it wrong.Back then only the Pope could even read the bible- and u can imagine what that lead to.And since Christianity came from the middle east, there is no such evidence to support any claims of such scare tactics and control through the Bible outside of Europe.You have to read the whole Bible and understand it as a whole.Christianity is about morality above all, and Jesus came to fullfil the Old Testiment.

"However, I have a question for you, is there any reason I should have faith in Christianity being true and that Jesus sacrificed himself, stemming from anything other than "It is written in the Bible that..."?"

First of all im not here to convert any body.I just want to get rid of all the ignorant based stereotypes about the Bible and Christians themselves.I dont fully understand what you mean by Christianity being true...r you talking about the stories in the bible or the lessons it teaches?The stories r not as important as the lessons Jesus taught.Reguardless if you believe he was real or not (btw there is evidence in the US that supports Jesus being a real man),his lessons are real.And most people actually follow them, reguardless of being Chrsitian or not.Most people believe it is wrong to kill people for no reason.That belief is also in the Bible.

so you can put your faith in ne thing you want to.Just dont blindly believe all Christians are a bunch of hypocrits following there own religion on pure fear.Some people do teach Christianity like that, but thats not how its supposed to be taught.All they do is use a bunch of myths to control people through the Bible- just as those early Europeans did.If u actually do research on the people that teach it this way, you will come to find out that they ultimatly play the role of "God" rather than a preacher.


"And my second question, do you think that is sufficient evidence to cause to believe something as far-fetched from daily life and established physical properties as the idea of God, the Holy Trinity, Hell, Heaven, Satan, Angels and so on?"

So basically you are asking if religion is even logical to begin with.Ultimatly thats a matter of perspective and faith. Many different people see the world in many different ways.There are advantages and disadvantes to each and every way.Where one man may see injustice, another may see justice. Where one man sees slavery, another man may see freedom.Where one man sees evidence another may see falsities. Its basically all about the individual.I just see and understand the world differently than you do. To me, my religion is not illogical or far-fetched.And i dont see the people with opposite views as illogical or far-fetched.I can understand both perspectives. They are just two different ways of viewing the same thing-life.And there is no one way to view life either, there r as many ways as there r people.peace over war


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