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Post Reply Are the saved selected?
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Posted 10/17/08
Guys, I heared a message on the radio saying that the saved are selected... Only the elite few... Is this true?... I have my doubts but he had scripture to back him up. And I somehow can accept this... I want to believe that God WANTS to save us ALL. Not only the selected few
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Posted 10/17/08
God knows who will be saved and who won't. But He knows this because He knows what we will choose. God gives us free will, and we choose to be saved or not. God didn't create people solely so He could send them to hell. God loves all of us, and it's our choice to love Him or not.
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Posted 10/18/08

digs wrote:

God knows who will be saved and who won't. But He knows this because He knows what we will choose. God gives us free will, and we choose to be saved or not. God didn't create people solely so He could send them to hell. God loves all of us, and it's our choice to love Him or not.


Right ON digs!!! he foreknows not fore select...
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Posted 10/18/08

josh1002 wrote:

Guys, I heared a message on the radio saying that the saved are selected... Only the elite few... Is this true?... I have my doubts but he had scripture to back him up. And I somehow can accept this... I want to believe that God WANTS to save us ALL. Not only the selected few


Let me add my 2 cents if I may. I believe in pre-destination. I believe it is a matter of perception and how we see it. God is omniscient, God is.. God. He knows every hair on our head, he knows who is going to heaven and who is to hell. The idea behind predestination from my understanding is not to be separated and feel superior but if you knew God chose you to goto heaven, wouldn't you try to do more for Him? I have dealt with most if not all denominations of Christianity. I love to study why people believe what they do. Ask more if anyone needs. But back on task, its a matter of preference, I myself can prolly categorize myself as Reformed Baptist, where as my friends are Orthodox Presbyterian and it differs the further among them. How is it a human can understand God's will or plan? we come up with theories that suit our beliefs, thats what I believe.

Predestination is not a bad thing, its not a good thing necessarily either. It's neutral, depending on the person, how it feels their head, and changes their opinions.
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Posted 10/18/08 , edited 10/18/08
bleh...It's a free will vs. Predestination debate. The word elite would be more for use in puritan ideology. Alright. Personally, I believe it is a mix of free will and Predestination, as there is biblical evidence to prove both sides of the story.

If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is lord, you will be saved.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Seems fairly straight forward. Jesus died for those who will accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. Elite, bah, if only the elite, 'the best of the best,' get into heaven, I'm never going to make it, nor will anyone else in the world.

God does want to save all, but only a few will enter heaven. enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the road and broad is the gate that leads to hell, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it.

In a way, only a few will enter heaven, that much is true. Some may even believe the select will enter heaven, which from a certain point of view is correct. However, God died so that we may have the chance to enter heaven, so that all the world might have the chance to enter heaven. The thing is, so few take up that chance, so in a way only a select few succeed in finding their way to salvation.

I said in a certain point of view earlier because God is omniscient. He knows everything, and everything that is going to happen. He knows who's going to be saved and who isn't, so some might say only the select will enter heaven. However, I believe that through God's help, we can reach anyone. Don't give up hope, keep pressing on and asking good questions.
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Posted 10/18/08

clearwateralchemist wrote:

bleh...It's a free will vs. Predestination debate. The word elite would be more for use in puritan ideology. Alright. Personally, I believe it is a mix of free will and Predestination,


Very Good, How about more info? For the Group from you
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Posted 10/18/08

Ratman21 wrote:


clearwateralchemist wrote:

bleh...It's a free will vs. Predestination debate. The word elite would be more for use in puritan ideology. Alright. Personally, I believe it is a mix of free will and Predestination,


Very Good, How about more info? For the Group from you


About puritan Ideology, or free will?

Free will, I consider in this way, though the example is flawed, I'll admit:

There is an ant farm on a boy's table. The boy watches one ant as it attempts to leave the ant hole. However, the boy covers the ant hole with his finger, preventing the ant from exiting that hole. The ant tries to exit the hill through another hole, but that boy prevents the ant leaving again. Finally, the ant succeeds in exiting through a hole the boy decides not to plug up. Was it not the ant's free will to try to escape the holes. It chose the holes it tried to leave through. However, the boy was directing the ant to the hole he wanted to ant to exit out of.

I consider myself to be that ant, trying to exit through the holes. The boy would be God, choosing which hole to let the ant exit out of.

Another way of putting it is that God opens and shuts doors in people's lives. Only we can choose whether or not we go through those doors.

Puritan ideology...I'd rather not. Too much of a pain. Unless you really want me to.
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Posted 10/19/08 , edited 10/19/08

cryolyger wrote:


josh1002 wrote:

Guys, I heared a message on the radio saying that the saved are selected... Only the elite few... Is this true?... I have my doubts but he had scripture to back him up. And I somehow can accept this... I want to believe that God WANTS to save us ALL. Not only the selected few


Let me add my 2 cents if I may. I believe in pre-destination. I believe it is a matter of perception and how we see it. God is omniscient, God is.. God. He knows every hair on our head, he knows who is going to heaven and who is to hell. The idea behind predestination from my understanding is not to be separated and feel superior but if you knew God chose you to goto heaven, wouldn't you try to do more for Him?
This is not the moral issue at hand in the Calvinism vs Arminism debate. The issue is that if god elects some people, then why not elect everyone? Why send anyone to hell? The doctrine of predestination is something that most people can not accept as moral for several reasons. The most compelling example I can offer you is of a fireman who sires 5 children. The children break the rules of the fireman's house sometimes so he gets upset. He lights the house on fire and decides that he will and randomly save one of his children. ***** **, obviously.






I have dealt with most if not all denominations of Christianity. I love to study why people believe what they do. Ask more if anyone needs. But back on task, its a matter of preference, I myself can prolly categorize myself as Reformed Baptist, where as my friends are Orthodox Presbyterian and it differs the further among them. How is it a human can understand God's will or plan? we come up with theories that suit our beliefs, thats what I believe.

Predestination is not a bad thing, its not a good thing necessarily either. It's neutral, depending on the person, how it feels their head, and changes their opinions.


No it is a bad thing. A very bad thing in my opinion.
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Posted 10/19/08

YouAreDumb wrote:

No it is a bad thing. A very bad thing in my opinion.


First stike for bad lanage.
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Posted 10/19/08

Ratman21 wrote:


YouAreDumb wrote:

No it is a bad thing. A very bad thing in my opinion.


First stike for bad lanage.


I don't understand. My language was fine. Are you objecting to my use of the word "bad", or are you upset that I think predestination is an evil concept? Both are silly reasons to warn anyone.
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Posted 10/19/08 , edited 10/19/08


Josh1002
Guys, I heared a message on the radio saying that the saved are selected... Only the elite few... Is this true?... I have my doubts but he had scripture to back him up. And I somehow can accept this... I want to believe that God WANTS to save us ALL. Not only the selected few


It's not necessarily the fact that God chose certain "elite" people but more that he knows about who's going to be saved in the end and who's going to choose to reject him. He knows what decisions we'll make and if they'll ultimatetly lead up to him. God gave us a free will for a reason. He gave us the right to choose which master we serve in this world. God or Satan. Light or Darkness. Heaven or Hell. In the end it's a simple decision...it's keeping our faith in him and denying our fleshly desires that's the hard part.

Here's some verses that I got from my Bible...:

Matthew 6:24--No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

Matthew 7:13 & 14-- Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only few find it.

Matthew 7:21-- Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord', will endter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 20:28-- Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give his life as ransom for many.

Matthew 20:14-- For many are invited, but few are chosen.

Matthew 24:31-- And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Romans 8:28-30-- And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For thos God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn amoung many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified, those he justified he also glorified.



What all this means is that God did predestined certain people to shine for him on this Earth...BUT it's not because he's horrible or that he chose certain people to spend eternity with him and condemn others to hell. God predestined certain people to be so alive for Christ, so uprooted in the faith that they would bring as many people to Christ as possible. That they would live so radically for Jesus that they would change the lives around them that were headed in the wrong direction and bring them to God. Back to their holy savior. We all have a choice in the matter,so what's your decision going to be?
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Posted 10/24/08

This is not the moral issue at hand in the Calvinism vs Arminism debate. The issue is that if god elects some people, then why not elect everyone? Why send anyone to hell? The doctrine of predestination is something that most people can not accept as moral for several reasons. The most compelling example I can offer you is of a fireman who sires 5 children. The children break the rules of the fireman's house sometimes so he gets upset. He lights the house on fire and decides that he will and randomly save one of his children. ***** **, obviously.


Morality is perception itself. American's think it morally wrong to eat dog, yet some cultures, it is a delicacy. How then are we to hold another mind set in our same understanding, because we think a certain way, and believe such and such is moral, does not mean the rest of the world agrees with us.

Second, I disagree with your analogy with the fireman. His motive seemed immoral, where as with Christians we believe God is omniscient and able to have our best interests in mind. Think of it like this, There is a race, not everyone finishes the race and some come in last. Those who finished, God knew would. Those who didn't God knew they wouldn't. So is it immoral for God to have the foreknowledge? Side note, the angels dance and sing for every new believer that comes to Christ and for every one that denies Him they cry. Angels these divine beings, are remorseful of our actions, and shed tears for our sake. Where as most non believers are not only happy in their sin, they delve deeper into it.
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Posted 10/26/08

cryolyger wrote:


Morality is perception itself. American's think it morally wrong to eat dog, yet some cultures, it is a delicacy. How then are we to hold another mind set in our same understanding, because we think a certain way, and believe such and such is moral, does not mean the rest of the world agrees with us.

Second, I disagree with your analogy with the fireman. His motive seemed immoral, where as with Christians we believe God is omniscient and able to have our best interests in mind. Think of it like this, There is a race, not everyone finishes the race and some come in last. Those who finished, God knew would.
Not analogous to the Calvinst concept of election. Election from that standpoint involves god actually changing the hearts of some and leaving others behind. In terms of your analogy, god would be giving some of the racers the power to run like the flash.



Those who didn't God knew they wouldn't. So is it immoral for God to have the foreknowledge? Side note, the angels dance and sing for every new believer that comes to Christ and for every one that denies Him they cry. Angels these divine beings, are remorseful of our actions, and shed tears for our sake. Where as most non believers are not only happy in their sin, they delve deeper into it.


Foreknowledge is fine in my book. What most people object to is not the knowledge god has of who will go to hell and heaven, but the concept that he randomly selected some people to go to each.
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Posted 10/26/08
Your talking about something radical. Calvinists believe that if they eat toast, it is the will of God. Every action is controlled by Him as if we were puppets.

God is God, without foreknowledge He wouldn't be God, so they can complain all they like, but the "selected" did make a choice, it just so happens God already knew what it was. It's in the matter of perception, people believe that this life is a dream, and you cannot disprove such an intangible. Faith is the basis of Christianity. And perhaps we should remember the basics before we cut ourselves off from the rest of the pack.
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Posted 10/26/08
God knows who will be saved, but He doesn't select. He knows who will choose Him or not. All were created with the purpose of knowing and worshiping God. Jesus died for everyones sins, not just a select few.
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