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Paradoxical Catch Phrases
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27 / M
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Posted 4/23/07
Wow. Too much complex comments to read over. Normally I’d be happy to learn, but right now I’m not so into it…

I s’pose I will most likely but probably not just stick to the original topic of this whole thing.

Yes, I see comments like that all the time. I love to see people contradict themselves with various posts. It makes me laugh. (Actually as a result of bad writing skills I’ve done this myself once or twice.) But, most quotes like that are not meant to be taken 100% literally.

One of my favorites was an arguments produced by some famous philosopher guy… I dunno, he’s local, but kind of smart.

He basically said, “Fear is the desire to avoid something. Usually confrontation or the object of a phobia. Basically if you truly fear something you’re willing to put yourself off to avoid it. For example: Arachnophobia victims will sooner pay somebody to empty their basement than do it themselves. Now martial bravery stems from the desire to protect something. For example: The desire to keep your nation from falling. Thus you want to avoid the fall of your nation. People are willing to put their lives at risk to avoid the fall of their nation.”

He presented it much better. (For one thing he has a wider vocabulary than I do so he wasn’t so redundant in his word choice.) If you read that you’ll find that what he was suggesting is that bravery is a form of cowardice. Can you see it?
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Posted 4/23/07
'Please ignore this notice'.... not an expression or catchphrase but meh

"yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation" yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation.

"there is an exception to every rule" heh same as the liar's paradox.

Oh and extreme nihilism cracks me up XD
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33 / M / chile
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Posted 4/25/07
To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.

-william blake
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21 / F / SDF-1
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Posted 4/25/07

ibanez72 wrote:

To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.

-william blake


One of my favs from Blake. I had it engraved on a flask for a gift.
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28 / M
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Posted 4/27/07
From discussion in the philosophy class today, from St. Augustine.

God = All good. God gave man free will so that they could be more like God then any of his other creations. Because he gave man freewill, he gave them the choice for good or evil. in short, Freewill = the source of evil. (very simplified)

So, two things I got from looking at this, the substitute teacher couldn't answer my question, so lets look at these slight paradoxes.
A: If God is "all" good, does that mean he has no free will?
B: If God has free will, that should mean that God has the ability to do evil, and thus that means he can possibly be fallible, on the account that he CAN do evil. Thus, how can he be the infallible being of the universe?

anyone is allowed to answer ^^
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27 / M / Toronto
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Posted 4/27/07
God cannot do evil because God is the source of all good. Something that is ultimately good cannot do evil, because if that thing does, then that thing is no longer the ultimate good.

The ultimate good (God) is also objective, governed by the absolute morals, which will only act on rational reasons. Therefore, there is no point in asking if God can do evil because there is no need to and it is not rational at all if God is all good.
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Posted 4/27/07
This is turning into a philosophy thread....(yay)
Philosophy Questions Thread
http://www.crunchyroll.com/showforumtopic?id=2669

Just because one has free will does not mean one has the ability to do evil.
free will is the capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives.
Just because God is perfectly Good does not mean he has no free will either.

The problem of evil has to do with God's benevolence and omnipotence, as well as the existence of evil.
Also, I don't see how the term free will applies to an all logical/perfectly Good being, why would God need such a concept?
Now if we limit God though......but nah that would just be a way of "getting off the hook" in regards to evil's existence.
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38 / M / Tengukakushi
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Posted 4/27/07
Augustine's God must have some form of free will, because he did choose to give it humans, knowing that they would do evil. Therefore the definition of "all good" must be one which allows at least a little evil-doing to keep things interesting.

These aren't really paradoxes, but I love them anyway: Oscar Wilde...

“The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.”
“I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best.”
“Man can believe the impossible, but can never believe the improbable”
“A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.”
“A true friend stabs you in the front.”
“Nothing that is worth knowing can be taught.”
“Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
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Posted 4/27/07
"to keep things interesting."? ha!
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27 / M / Toronto
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Posted 4/27/07

mauz15 wrote:

This is turning into a philosophy thread....(yay)
Philosophy Questions Thread
http://www.crunchyroll.com/showforumtopic?id=2669

Just because one has free will does not mean one has the ability to do evil.
free will is the capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives.
Just because God is perfectly Good does not mean he has no free will either.

The problem of evil has to do with God's benevolence and omnipotence, as well as the existence of evil.
Also, I don't see how the term free will applies to an all logical/perfectly Good being, why would God need such a concept?
Now if we limit God though......but nah that would just be a way of "getting off the hook" in regards to evil's existence.


Haha quite quite, thanks for the ideas...now back to my Philosophy ISU Essay.
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28 / M
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Posted 4/27/07

mauz15 wrote:

This is turning into a philosophy thread....(yay)
Philosophy Questions Thread
http://www.crunchyroll.com/showforumtopic?id=2669

Just because one has free will does not mean one has the ability to do evil.
free will is the capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives.
Just because God is perfectly Good does not mean he has no free will either.

The problem of evil has to do with God's benevolence and omnipotence, as well as the existence of evil.
Also, I don't see how the term free will applies to an all logical/perfectly Good being, why would God need such a concept?
Now if we limit God though......but nah that would just be a way of "getting off the hook" in regards to evil's existence.



mauz15 wrote:

This is turning into a philosophy thread....(yay)
Philosophy Questions Thread
http://www.crunchyroll.com/showforumtopic?id=2669

Just because one has free will does not mean one has the ability to do evil.
free will is the capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives.
Just because God is perfectly Good does not mean he has no free will either.

The problem of evil has to do with God's benevolence and omnipotence, as well as the existence of evil.
Also, I don't see how the term free will applies to an all logical/perfectly Good being, why would God need such a concept?
Now if we limit God though......but nah that would just be a way of "getting off the hook" in regards to evil's existence.


What I did state were paradoxes though. Generally existence is at odds with itself in my mind.

But I think this thread is a bit more open then the philosophy questions thread, and covers a wider area (please don't shut it down for copying T.T)

Speaking of respawning threads I've never seen a forum with such longstanding threads. most of the other forums allow users to recreate after a month or so. Not saying for or against though.
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30 / M / Japan
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Posted 4/27/07
(my answer to something said a while ago regarding love... I haven't seen this thread for a while... :P)

Hurt doesnt necessarily have to be taken as something negative. In psychology, there is the idea of "emotional banking" where there is a balance between "depositing" emotional experiences and
"withdrawing" them as well. A true relationship has both "good times" (depositing) and "bad times" where we hurt other people (withdrawing). It is when there is nothing left to withdraw that relationships usually fall apart, but being aware of the importance of emotions in any relationship, both the positive and the negative, is a good indicator that we truly exist. :)

*I got that from a seminar I attended yesterday...


I remembera very paradoxical statement that was actually released by a company as their slogan. It took them a week to realize how silly it sounded:

"Our innovation makes us first; our quality makes us last."

It's more of a pun that creates a paradox at the end because it's contradicitng the entire point of the slogan.

___________

Regarding Augustine... Free will does not necessarily imply the power to do evil. The problem with the statement is that free will is seen as an agent of evil and is intrinsically evil in order for it to bring about evil. I'll have to review on the philosophical discussions on the proof of God's goodness (Descartes gives a discussion on this), but let's assume the epistemological validity of the phrase "God is Good". The act of God giving man "free will" is out of his goodness and will for man to live freely - not in the sense that he may do whatever he would like, but that he may love Him, God who gave man life, freely and with all his heart, mind, body and soul.

This is the foundation of the Christian religion, and the understanding of Man's inclination towards sin was described by Augustine by different terms, the most popular of which would be concupiscence (though the sexual act is necessary as a means of pro-creation, it is a form of "necessary sin" according to Augustine. This ideology is not that widely accepted in the modern curch catechism with the identification of the sexual act as both "unitive" and "pro-creative", with its struts as the basis for the consumation of the sacrament of marriage).

If this is the case, it should be understood that free will is not evil in itself to bring about evil (since true good cannot beget evil, as is the philosophical understanding of the inifinite, rather, free will is the agent that intrinisically holds the POTENTIAL to create that which is good or evil. This is the idea of "freedom", that creating a distinction between two wills (as is recognized in general catechesis): the will of God, and the will of Man. The will of God is that the will of Man be that which brings about the greatest growth of man in reaching his potential as a created being - the only means of which is for man to recognize the will of God and make it his own. This is understood in Christianity as "true freedom" or "infinite freedom". When the will of Man becomes the will of God, free will begets good. But when the will of Man does not coincide with the will of God, the result is SIN, or evil.

Sorry that this post is long, but I just want to clarify that the problem in the statement is not the paradox of meaning, rather, the unclarity of definition as to what free will is. Also, there is an error in reasoning to assume that human free will is equivalent to the free will of the infinite (God). Human free will (will of Man) is infinitely different than God's free will (will of God) which is discussed well by St. Thomas.
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Posted 4/27/07

mauz15 wrote:

Werner Heisenberg said:

"If actually all our knowledge is derived from perception, there is no meaning in the statement that the things really exist;



All our knowledge being based on perception reminds me of the time someone told me that its not a fact that the sky is blue. Gravity is a fact because it is experienced seen and felt by all and cannot be unproven or doubted. But not everyone sees the sky as blue, there are doubts and it is not seen the same by all, some are color blind and/or see it as a different color other than blue.



edsamac wrote:

About the fire thing, this seems to be the classic "problem of the bridge" in philosophy where the greatest question is whether or not what I perceive in my mind conforms to the reality of existence - in other words, how can I be so sure my mind is not lying to me, ala matrix?


Sometimes even if something exists "soley in ones mind" it can still affect them physically, that is if someone perceives something that is not there it may still have physical effects, i forget the medical term for it. Kind of like how if a person really thinks they have some illness, they may actually show signs of it.

In a real life situation, my grandma right now sees things that no one else can see, shell see a little girl standing by the gate staring at her and nobody else can see it. In all real fairness, how can i call her crazy for it?


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28 / M
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Posted 5/16/07
Cartesian circle... I'm trying to think if there is a way out of it.

None so far.
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30 / M / Japan
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Posted 1/26/08
Quite frankly, I miss this thread, and I've read through the responses and realized that I've become stupider over the past year! :woot:


Ahem... how about I get the ball rolling and start with a new paradoxical statement? This goes to all the people that subscribe to subjectivism:


Everything in this world is subjective.




Anyone notice what's wrong?
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