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Post Reply The Bible true or not
Posted 1/24/09

SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


clearwateralchemist wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:


Ratman21 wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:

the bible that we have now is not the REAL REAL one but its close enough to teach us and to understand his word. But I wonder why god did that. "His plan maybe" but the bible IS trure


What do you mean by the REAL REAL one???


The real bible is lost or gone, the bible that we have is close to it, that all am saying, I just wanted to say that but I know that the word of god is the truth


The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days.

Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies written in the old testament. The chance of one person fullfilling just 8 of the prophesies is 1 out of 10 to the 17th power. Imagine the state of texas filled with silver dollars. You mark one of those silver dollars with a red x and mix all those silver dollars up. And you have one chance to pull the silver dollar with a red x. That's the chances you have for one person fulfilling EIGHT of those prophesies. Now imagine if you would trying to fulfill 108 prophesies. The probability of fulfilling so many is lower than pulling one specific atom in the universe out of all the atoms in the universe.

Next, where the Bible mentions a town, pool, city or major landmark, Archaeologists have located it. One example is the Pool of Bethsaida, where people didn't believe it actually existed and said the Bible was wrong because, 'Ah, the pool doesn't exist, it is wrong!' Guess what, they found the pool of Bethsaida in 1888 when remodeling a house, or something like that.

Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again.

The whole Bible, on the other hand, was fervently copied by Monks in in the middle/dark Ages. One person would be given a verse or chapter. Then, if the verse held up under scrutiny, the page was passed onto another monk, who copied another verse/chapter. If even the slightest thing was wrong, the page of the Bible and all the monks' collective hard work was burned and they had to start again.

Trust me, the Bible is accurate and the real deal. There is less certainty about the writings of shakespheare in comparison to the Bible, and that is only a few hundred years old while the Bible is over a thousand years old. It can also be compared to ancient manuscripts. The Bible is remarkably well preserved over time.


While I do believe the general messages in the bible are true, I can't help but point out that some of the things you said here are slightly, well, wrong. You have to remember that there are many possible reasons for each of the things you mentioned.

"The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days"

While this may sound like the cynics answer you must accept that the bible has been modified over the centuries (which it has undoubtedly been unfortunately) so this is not surprising in the least. The accounts that didn't fit will have either been changed so they all fit together or will simply have been omitted over the years by various men in powerful positions who found such action convenient to their own purposes.

"Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again"

While this is true its actually irrelevant- the translation errors come when you, well, translate it, not when you simply copy the original as in this case. You will find that errors are inevitably made upon translating a text (particularly one as ambiguous as the bible) simply because there aren't always words for something or a way of saying precisely the same thing in the new language. In addition to get a perfect translation you need someone who perfectly understands the message being conveyed- in other words you need someone who understands the bible exactly and knows all the hidden messages and secrets in the words of God so that the messages aren't lost when its written in a different way. In other words they need to know exactly what God thinks, and know the 'true interpretation' if you will. I don't know of anyone who claims to know everything there is to know about the bible, do you? You also need to consider that even a tiny mistranslation can alter the whole meaning of a sentence. (for example, 'he eats, shoots, and leaves' changes meaning completely if you so much as forget the commas to 'he eats shoots and leaves') In a book like the bible there are so many uncertain interpretations to the point that a slight error could easily put people on the wrong track)

See my point?


The only way the Bible has benn "modified" is for easier translations. If you look at the original pages (which we do have) you will be surprised how accurate they are to the bibles we have today


Unfortunately that isn't true (no matter how much I want to be wrong on this I'm not) There is significant historical evidence that shows that Christianity as a religion was heavily modified by the Romans when it became their state religion. It was made to be much more like the traditional roman system so as to avoid alienating those who still held true to their old belief system. Feel free to look this up, you don't need to take my word for it.


i found no evidence on what your saying but i did fine this
"For those who cry, "Translation error!" remember that the New Testament was written in Greek and a great many people read Greek today. We would have heard about it if there were translation errors from Greek into English. Oh boy, would we have heard about it! The Interpreter's Bible and others like it allow you to see all possibilities for every translated word.
The New Testament is the most copied and discussed manuscript ever. Check one early saint's letter against another, one historian's letter against another, one ruler's letter against another, one manuscript against another, one commentary against another, and you will find no conflict about the New Testament. You will find disagreements about theology, but little argument about the content of the scriptures themselves. It is only in the current day that theologians think they can re-translate the New Testament to make it "better."

your the only person i have ever heard say this. cause if you were right there would be alot of talk about it today but there isnt. plus if you hope what your saying isnt true then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place?
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Posted 1/24/09

willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


clearwateralchemist wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:


Ratman21 wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:

the bible that we have now is not the REAL REAL one but its close enough to teach us and to understand his word. But I wonder why god did that. "His plan maybe" but the bible IS trure


What do you mean by the REAL REAL one???


The real bible is lost or gone, the bible that we have is close to it, that all am saying, I just wanted to say that but I know that the word of god is the truth


The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days.

Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies written in the old testament. The chance of one person fullfilling just 8 of the prophesies is 1 out of 10 to the 17th power. Imagine the state of texas filled with silver dollars. You mark one of those silver dollars with a red x and mix all those silver dollars up. And you have one chance to pull the silver dollar with a red x. That's the chances you have for one person fulfilling EIGHT of those prophesies. Now imagine if you would trying to fulfill 108 prophesies. The probability of fulfilling so many is lower than pulling one specific atom in the universe out of all the atoms in the universe.

Next, where the Bible mentions a town, pool, city or major landmark, Archaeologists have located it. One example is the Pool of Bethsaida, where people didn't believe it actually existed and said the Bible was wrong because, 'Ah, the pool doesn't exist, it is wrong!' Guess what, they found the pool of Bethsaida in 1888 when remodeling a house, or something like that.

Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again.

The whole Bible, on the other hand, was fervently copied by Monks in in the middle/dark Ages. One person would be given a verse or chapter. Then, if the verse held up under scrutiny, the page was passed onto another monk, who copied another verse/chapter. If even the slightest thing was wrong, the page of the Bible and all the monks' collective hard work was burned and they had to start again.

Trust me, the Bible is accurate and the real deal. There is less certainty about the writings of shakespheare in comparison to the Bible, and that is only a few hundred years old while the Bible is over a thousand years old. It can also be compared to ancient manuscripts. The Bible is remarkably well preserved over time.


While I do believe the general messages in the bible are true, I can't help but point out that some of the things you said here are slightly, well, wrong. You have to remember that there are many possible reasons for each of the things you mentioned.

"The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days"

While this may sound like the cynics answer you must accept that the bible has been modified over the centuries (which it has undoubtedly been unfortunately) so this is not surprising in the least. The accounts that didn't fit will have either been changed so they all fit together or will simply have been omitted over the years by various men in powerful positions who found such action convenient to their own purposes.

"Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again"

While this is true its actually irrelevant- the translation errors come when you, well, translate it, not when you simply copy the original as in this case. You will find that errors are inevitably made upon translating a text (particularly one as ambiguous as the bible) simply because there aren't always words for something or a way of saying precisely the same thing in the new language. In addition to get a perfect translation you need someone who perfectly understands the message being conveyed- in other words you need someone who understands the bible exactly and knows all the hidden messages and secrets in the words of God so that the messages aren't lost when its written in a different way. In other words they need to know exactly what God thinks, and know the 'true interpretation' if you will. I don't know of anyone who claims to know everything there is to know about the bible, do you? You also need to consider that even a tiny mistranslation can alter the whole meaning of a sentence. (for example, 'he eats, shoots, and leaves' changes meaning completely if you so much as forget the commas to 'he eats shoots and leaves') In a book like the bible there are so many uncertain interpretations to the point that a slight error could easily put people on the wrong track)

See my point?


The only way the Bible has benn "modified" is for easier translations. If you look at the original pages (which we do have) you will be surprised how accurate they are to the bibles we have today


Unfortunately that isn't true (no matter how much I want to be wrong on this I'm not) There is significant historical evidence that shows that Christianity as a religion was heavily modified by the Romans when it became their state religion. It was made to be much more like the traditional roman system so as to avoid alienating those who still held true to their old belief system. Feel free to look this up, you don't need to take my word for it.


i found no evidence on what your saying but i did fine this
"For those who cry, "Translation error!" remember that the New Testament was written in Greek and a great many people read Greek today. We would have heard about it if there were translation errors from Greek into English. Oh boy, would we have heard about it! The Interpreter's Bible and others like it allow you to see all possibilities for every translated word.
The New Testament is the most copied and discussed manuscript ever. Check one early saint's letter against another, one historian's letter against another, one ruler's letter against another, one manuscript against another, one commentary against another, and you will find no conflict about the New Testament. You will find disagreements about theology, but little argument about the content of the scriptures themselves. It is only in the current day that theologians think they can re-translate the New Testament to make it "better."

your the only person i have ever heard say this. cause if you were right there would be alot of talk about it today but there isnt. plus if you hope what your saying isnt true then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place?


I'm sorry but what you just said is one of the worst things about most of my fellow christians. 'If you hope its true, then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place' Just because you and I wish it to be true does not make it so. I seek the truth, and will not bury my head in the sand and pretend the uncomfortable parts of my faith aren't there. That my friend would make me ignorant. So I always, always seek the truth, even if I don't like what I find. This is by the way what brought me to my faith in the first place- my quest for the truth. I truly believe that God and his son are incorruptible truths and we must thank them eternally for what they have done for us but I am not so foolish to believe that a book falls under the same rules, particularly a book written by men (about God, but nonetheless written by the easily swayed heart and hand of mankind- this after all is why we need God's guidance in the first place). The bible is certainly an important and informative resource but it should always be taken with a pinch of salt- it is not God or Jesus, therefore it cannot be perfect. Added to this I suggest you broaden your horizons somewhat- the fact that you have heard little of this suggests that you predominantly associate with other Christians- who as I mentioned earlier tend to avert their gaze away from such matters rather than face up to it and challenge it. They probably won't know or if they do they are unlikely to talk about it. Bring this topic up in conversation with some atheists or agnostics and see if they have heard of it. And rather than ask you to go and look for the source again I will go and find it for you, but some other time as I have exams this week and will be quite busy until next weekend. Bear with me, I will Pm you towards the end of next week.

Posted 1/24/09

SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


clearwateralchemist wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:


Ratman21 wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:

the bible that we have now is not the REAL REAL one but its close enough to teach us and to understand his word. But I wonder why god did that. "His plan maybe" but the bible IS trure


What do you mean by the REAL REAL one???


The real bible is lost or gone, the bible that we have is close to it, that all am saying, I just wanted to say that but I know that the word of god is the truth


The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days.

Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies written in the old testament. The chance of one person fullfilling just 8 of the prophesies is 1 out of 10 to the 17th power. Imagine the state of texas filled with silver dollars. You mark one of those silver dollars with a red x and mix all those silver dollars up. And you have one chance to pull the silver dollar with a red x. That's the chances you have for one person fulfilling EIGHT of those prophesies. Now imagine if you would trying to fulfill 108 prophesies. The probability of fulfilling so many is lower than pulling one specific atom in the universe out of all the atoms in the universe.

Next, where the Bible mentions a town, pool, city or major landmark, Archaeologists have located it. One example is the Pool of Bethsaida, where people didn't believe it actually existed and said the Bible was wrong because, 'Ah, the pool doesn't exist, it is wrong!' Guess what, they found the pool of Bethsaida in 1888 when remodeling a house, or something like that.

Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again.

The whole Bible, on the other hand, was fervently copied by Monks in in the middle/dark Ages. One person would be given a verse or chapter. Then, if the verse held up under scrutiny, the page was passed onto another monk, who copied another verse/chapter. If even the slightest thing was wrong, the page of the Bible and all the monks' collective hard work was burned and they had to start again.

Trust me, the Bible is accurate and the real deal. There is less certainty about the writings of shakespheare in comparison to the Bible, and that is only a few hundred years old while the Bible is over a thousand years old. It can also be compared to ancient manuscripts. The Bible is remarkably well preserved over time.


While I do believe the general messages in the bible are true, I can't help but point out that some of the things you said here are slightly, well, wrong. You have to remember that there are many possible reasons for each of the things you mentioned.

"The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days"

While this may sound like the cynics answer you must accept that the bible has been modified over the centuries (which it has undoubtedly been unfortunately) so this is not surprising in the least. The accounts that didn't fit will have either been changed so they all fit together or will simply have been omitted over the years by various men in powerful positions who found such action convenient to their own purposes.

"Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again"

While this is true its actually irrelevant- the translation errors come when you, well, translate it, not when you simply copy the original as in this case. You will find that errors are inevitably made upon translating a text (particularly one as ambiguous as the bible) simply because there aren't always words for something or a way of saying precisely the same thing in the new language. In addition to get a perfect translation you need someone who perfectly understands the message being conveyed- in other words you need someone who understands the bible exactly and knows all the hidden messages and secrets in the words of God so that the messages aren't lost when its written in a different way. In other words they need to know exactly what God thinks, and know the 'true interpretation' if you will. I don't know of anyone who claims to know everything there is to know about the bible, do you? You also need to consider that even a tiny mistranslation can alter the whole meaning of a sentence. (for example, 'he eats, shoots, and leaves' changes meaning completely if you so much as forget the commas to 'he eats shoots and leaves') In a book like the bible there are so many uncertain interpretations to the point that a slight error could easily put people on the wrong track)

See my point?


The only way the Bible has benn "modified" is for easier translations. If you look at the original pages (which we do have) you will be surprised how accurate they are to the bibles we have today


Unfortunately that isn't true (no matter how much I want to be wrong on this I'm not) There is significant historical evidence that shows that Christianity as a religion was heavily modified by the Romans when it became their state religion. It was made to be much more like the traditional roman system so as to avoid alienating those who still held true to their old belief system. Feel free to look this up, you don't need to take my word for it.


i found no evidence on what your saying but i did fine this
"For those who cry, "Translation error!" remember that the New Testament was written in Greek and a great many people read Greek today. We would have heard about it if there were translation errors from Greek into English. Oh boy, would we have heard about it! The Interpreter's Bible and others like it allow you to see all possibilities for every translated word.
The New Testament is the most copied and discussed manuscript ever. Check one early saint's letter against another, one historian's letter against another, one ruler's letter against another, one manuscript against another, one commentary against another, and you will find no conflict about the New Testament. You will find disagreements about theology, but little argument about the content of the scriptures themselves. It is only in the current day that theologians think they can re-translate the New Testament to make it "better."

your the only person i have ever heard say this. cause if you were right there would be alot of talk about it today but there isnt. plus if you hope what your saying isnt true then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place?


I'm sorry but what you just said is one of the worst things about most of my fellow christians. 'If you hope its true, then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place' Just because you and I wish it to be true does not make it so. I seek the truth, and will not bury my head in the sand and pretend the uncomfortable parts of my faith aren't there. That my friend would make me ignorant. So I always, always seek the truth, even if I don't like what I find. This is by the way what brought me to my faith in the first place- my quest for the truth. I truly believe that God and his son are incorruptible truths and we must thank them eternally for what they have done for us but I am not so foolish to believe that a book falls under the same rules, particularly a book written by men (about God, but nonetheless written by the easily swayed heart and hand of mankind- this after all is why we need God's guidance in the first place). The bible is certainly an important and informative resource but it should always be taken with a pinch of salt- it is not God or Jesus, therefore it cannot be perfect. Added to this I suggest you broaden your horizons somewhat- the fact that you have heard little of this suggests that you predominantly associate with other Christians- who as I mentioned earlier tend to avert their gaze away from such matters rather than face up to it and challenge it. They probably won't know or if they do they are unlikely to talk about it. Bring this topic up in conversation with some atheists or agnostics and see if they have heard of it. And rather than ask you to go and look for the source again I will go and find it for you, but some other time as I have exams this week and will be quite busy until next weekend. Bear with me, I will Pm you towards the end of next week.



I seek the truth as well and i know that the bible is right i dont need what you or anyone else says and i really dont care. we will all see whats rigth after death. and as for "broaden your horizons somewhat" i am around very intelligent Christian teachers that have traveled around the world learning about different faiths and their own to see just why their faith is the right one. They have convidence in their faith that they dont need to worry about things like this cause they already know the truth. i really wish more people could be like them but oh well. God has given you the truth and you arent certain of it so you are looking for something you wont find. I dont care if people try to turn me away from God cause i wont. and if i am wrong then thats that and if i am right then i get the greatest gift of all. I am more conserned with what God has to say than man on any day. God says his word is perfect so saying it isnt is saying that God isnt so your calling God a liar. I dont need to be hanging out with "Christians" who clam to believe these things, cause i am really do doubting that you claim to be what your saying
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Posted 1/24/09
I think the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit, just because man is fallible doesn't mean the Bible is. 66 Books inspired by the Same Holy Spirit.
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Posted 1/24/09

willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


clearwateralchemist wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:


Ratman21 wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:

the bible that we have now is not the REAL REAL one but its close enough to teach us and to understand his word. But I wonder why god did that. "His plan maybe" but the bible IS trure


What do you mean by the REAL REAL one???


The real bible is lost or gone, the bible that we have is close to it, that all am saying, I just wanted to say that but I know that the word of god is the truth


The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days.

Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies written in the old testament. The chance of one person fullfilling just 8 of the prophesies is 1 out of 10 to the 17th power. Imagine the state of texas filled with silver dollars. You mark one of those silver dollars with a red x and mix all those silver dollars up. And you have one chance to pull the silver dollar with a red x. That's the chances you have for one person fulfilling EIGHT of those prophesies. Now imagine if you would trying to fulfill 108 prophesies. The probability of fulfilling so many is lower than pulling one specific atom in the universe out of all the atoms in the universe.

Next, where the Bible mentions a town, pool, city or major landmark, Archaeologists have located it. One example is the Pool of Bethsaida, where people didn't believe it actually existed and said the Bible was wrong because, 'Ah, the pool doesn't exist, it is wrong!' Guess what, they found the pool of Bethsaida in 1888 when remodeling a house, or something like that.

Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again.

The whole Bible, on the other hand, was fervently copied by Monks in in the middle/dark Ages. One person would be given a verse or chapter. Then, if the verse held up under scrutiny, the page was passed onto another monk, who copied another verse/chapter. If even the slightest thing was wrong, the page of the Bible and all the monks' collective hard work was burned and they had to start again.

Trust me, the Bible is accurate and the real deal. There is less certainty about the writings of shakespheare in comparison to the Bible, and that is only a few hundred years old while the Bible is over a thousand years old. It can also be compared to ancient manuscripts. The Bible is remarkably well preserved over time.


While I do believe the general messages in the bible are true, I can't help but point out that some of the things you said here are slightly, well, wrong. You have to remember that there are many possible reasons for each of the things you mentioned.

"The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days"

While this may sound like the cynics answer you must accept that the bible has been modified over the centuries (which it has undoubtedly been unfortunately) so this is not surprising in the least. The accounts that didn't fit will have either been changed so they all fit together or will simply have been omitted over the years by various men in powerful positions who found such action convenient to their own purposes.

"Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again"

While this is true its actually irrelevant- the translation errors come when you, well, translate it, not when you simply copy the original as in this case. You will find that errors are inevitably made upon translating a text (particularly one as ambiguous as the bible) simply because there aren't always words for something or a way of saying precisely the same thing in the new language. In addition to get a perfect translation you need someone who perfectly understands the message being conveyed- in other words you need someone who understands the bible exactly and knows all the hidden messages and secrets in the words of God so that the messages aren't lost when its written in a different way. In other words they need to know exactly what God thinks, and know the 'true interpretation' if you will. I don't know of anyone who claims to know everything there is to know about the bible, do you? You also need to consider that even a tiny mistranslation can alter the whole meaning of a sentence. (for example, 'he eats, shoots, and leaves' changes meaning completely if you so much as forget the commas to 'he eats shoots and leaves') In a book like the bible there are so many uncertain interpretations to the point that a slight error could easily put people on the wrong track)

See my point?


The only way the Bible has benn "modified" is for easier translations. If you look at the original pages (which we do have) you will be surprised how accurate they are to the bibles we have today


Unfortunately that isn't true (no matter how much I want to be wrong on this I'm not) There is significant historical evidence that shows that Christianity as a religion was heavily modified by the Romans when it became their state religion. It was made to be much more like the traditional roman system so as to avoid alienating those who still held true to their old belief system. Feel free to look this up, you don't need to take my word for it.


i found no evidence on what your saying but i did fine this
"For those who cry, "Translation error!" remember that the New Testament was written in Greek and a great many people read Greek today. We would have heard about it if there were translation errors from Greek into English. Oh boy, would we have heard about it! The Interpreter's Bible and others like it allow you to see all possibilities for every translated word.
The New Testament is the most copied and discussed manuscript ever. Check one early saint's letter against another, one historian's letter against another, one ruler's letter against another, one manuscript against another, one commentary against another, and you will find no conflict about the New Testament. You will find disagreements about theology, but little argument about the content of the scriptures themselves. It is only in the current day that theologians think they can re-translate the New Testament to make it "better."

your the only person i have ever heard say this. cause if you were right there would be alot of talk about it today but there isnt. plus if you hope what your saying isnt true then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place?


I'm sorry but what you just said is one of the worst things about most of my fellow christians. 'If you hope its true, then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place' Just because you and I wish it to be true does not make it so. I seek the truth, and will not bury my head in the sand and pretend the uncomfortable parts of my faith aren't there. That my friend would make me ignorant. So I always, always seek the truth, even if I don't like what I find. This is by the way what brought me to my faith in the first place- my quest for the truth. I truly believe that God and his son are incorruptible truths and we must thank them eternally for what they have done for us but I am not so foolish to believe that a book falls under the same rules, particularly a book written by men (about God, but nonetheless written by the easily swayed heart and hand of mankind- this after all is why we need God's guidance in the first place). The bible is certainly an important and informative resource but it should always be taken with a pinch of salt- it is not God or Jesus, therefore it cannot be perfect. Added to this I suggest you broaden your horizons somewhat- the fact that you have heard little of this suggests that you predominantly associate with other Christians- who as I mentioned earlier tend to avert their gaze away from such matters rather than face up to it and challenge it. They probably won't know or if they do they are unlikely to talk about it. Bring this topic up in conversation with some atheists or agnostics and see if they have heard of it. And rather than ask you to go and look for the source again I will go and find it for you, but some other time as I have exams this week and will be quite busy until next weekend. Bear with me, I will Pm you towards the end of next week.



I seek the truth as well and i know that the bible is right i dont need what you or anyone else says and i really dont care. we will all see whats rigth after death. and as for "broaden your horizons somewhat" i am around very intelligent Christian teachers that have traveled around the world learning about different faiths and their own to see just why their faith is the right one. They have convidence in their faith that they dont need to worry about things like this cause they already know the truth. i really wish more people could be like them but oh well. God has given you the truth and you arent certain of it so you are looking for something you wont find. I dont care if people try to turn me away from God cause i wont. and if i am wrong then thats that and if i am right then i get the greatest gift of all. I am more conserned with what God has to say than man on any day. God says his word is perfect so saying it isnt is saying that God isnt so your calling God a liar. I dont need to be hanging out with "Christians" who clam to believe these things, cause i am really do doubting that you claim to be what your saying


Well no point arguing with you any further, you fail to understand my point, have a meaningless rant and then you accuse me of not being a true believer. Nice one.
Posted 1/24/09

SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


clearwateralchemist wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:


Ratman21 wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:

the bible that we have now is not the REAL REAL one but its close enough to teach us and to understand his word. But I wonder why god did that. "His plan maybe" but the bible IS trure


What do you mean by the REAL REAL one???


The real bible is lost or gone, the bible that we have is close to it, that all am saying, I just wanted to say that but I know that the word of god is the truth


The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days.

Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies written in the old testament. The chance of one person fullfilling just 8 of the prophesies is 1 out of 10 to the 17th power. Imagine the state of texas filled with silver dollars. You mark one of those silver dollars with a red x and mix all those silver dollars up. And you have one chance to pull the silver dollar with a red x. That's the chances you have for one person fulfilling EIGHT of those prophesies. Now imagine if you would trying to fulfill 108 prophesies. The probability of fulfilling so many is lower than pulling one specific atom in the universe out of all the atoms in the universe.

Next, where the Bible mentions a town, pool, city or major landmark, Archaeologists have located it. One example is the Pool of Bethsaida, where people didn't believe it actually existed and said the Bible was wrong because, 'Ah, the pool doesn't exist, it is wrong!' Guess what, they found the pool of Bethsaida in 1888 when remodeling a house, or something like that.

Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again.

The whole Bible, on the other hand, was fervently copied by Monks in in the middle/dark Ages. One person would be given a verse or chapter. Then, if the verse held up under scrutiny, the page was passed onto another monk, who copied another verse/chapter. If even the slightest thing was wrong, the page of the Bible and all the monks' collective hard work was burned and they had to start again.

Trust me, the Bible is accurate and the real deal. There is less certainty about the writings of shakespheare in comparison to the Bible, and that is only a few hundred years old while the Bible is over a thousand years old. It can also be compared to ancient manuscripts. The Bible is remarkably well preserved over time.


While I do believe the general messages in the bible are true, I can't help but point out that some of the things you said here are slightly, well, wrong. You have to remember that there are many possible reasons for each of the things you mentioned.

"The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days"

While this may sound like the cynics answer you must accept that the bible has been modified over the centuries (which it has undoubtedly been unfortunately) so this is not surprising in the least. The accounts that didn't fit will have either been changed so they all fit together or will simply have been omitted over the years by various men in powerful positions who found such action convenient to their own purposes.

"Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again"

While this is true its actually irrelevant- the translation errors come when you, well, translate it, not when you simply copy the original as in this case. You will find that errors are inevitably made upon translating a text (particularly one as ambiguous as the bible) simply because there aren't always words for something or a way of saying precisely the same thing in the new language. In addition to get a perfect translation you need someone who perfectly understands the message being conveyed- in other words you need someone who understands the bible exactly and knows all the hidden messages and secrets in the words of God so that the messages aren't lost when its written in a different way. In other words they need to know exactly what God thinks, and know the 'true interpretation' if you will. I don't know of anyone who claims to know everything there is to know about the bible, do you? You also need to consider that even a tiny mistranslation can alter the whole meaning of a sentence. (for example, 'he eats, shoots, and leaves' changes meaning completely if you so much as forget the commas to 'he eats shoots and leaves') In a book like the bible there are so many uncertain interpretations to the point that a slight error could easily put people on the wrong track)

See my point?


The only way the Bible has benn "modified" is for easier translations. If you look at the original pages (which we do have) you will be surprised how accurate they are to the bibles we have today


Unfortunately that isn't true (no matter how much I want to be wrong on this I'm not) There is significant historical evidence that shows that Christianity as a religion was heavily modified by the Romans when it became their state religion. It was made to be much more like the traditional roman system so as to avoid alienating those who still held true to their old belief system. Feel free to look this up, you don't need to take my word for it.


i found no evidence on what your saying but i did fine this
"For those who cry, "Translation error!" remember that the New Testament was written in Greek and a great many people read Greek today. We would have heard about it if there were translation errors from Greek into English. Oh boy, would we have heard about it! The Interpreter's Bible and others like it allow you to see all possibilities for every translated word.
The New Testament is the most copied and discussed manuscript ever. Check one early saint's letter against another, one historian's letter against another, one ruler's letter against another, one manuscript against another, one commentary against another, and you will find no conflict about the New Testament. You will find disagreements about theology, but little argument about the content of the scriptures themselves. It is only in the current day that theologians think they can re-translate the New Testament to make it "better."

your the only person i have ever heard say this. cause if you were right there would be alot of talk about it today but there isnt. plus if you hope what your saying isnt true then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place?


I'm sorry but what you just said is one of the worst things about most of my fellow christians. 'If you hope its true, then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place' Just because you and I wish it to be true does not make it so. I seek the truth, and will not bury my head in the sand and pretend the uncomfortable parts of my faith aren't there. That my friend would make me ignorant. So I always, always seek the truth, even if I don't like what I find. This is by the way what brought me to my faith in the first place- my quest for the truth. I truly believe that God and his son are incorruptible truths and we must thank them eternally for what they have done for us but I am not so foolish to believe that a book falls under the same rules, particularly a book written by men (about God, but nonetheless written by the easily swayed heart and hand of mankind- this after all is why we need God's guidance in the first place). The bible is certainly an important and informative resource but it should always be taken with a pinch of salt- it is not God or Jesus, therefore it cannot be perfect. Added to this I suggest you broaden your horizons somewhat- the fact that you have heard little of this suggests that you predominantly associate with other Christians- who as I mentioned earlier tend to avert their gaze away from such matters rather than face up to it and challenge it. They probably won't know or if they do they are unlikely to talk about it. Bring this topic up in conversation with some atheists or agnostics and see if they have heard of it. And rather than ask you to go and look for the source again I will go and find it for you, but some other time as I have exams this week and will be quite busy until next weekend. Bear with me, I will Pm you towards the end of next week.



I seek the truth as well and i know that the bible is right i dont need what you or anyone else says and i really dont care. we will all see whats rigth after death. and as for "broaden your horizons somewhat" i am around very intelligent Christian teachers that have traveled around the world learning about different faiths and their own to see just why their faith is the right one. They have convidence in their faith that they dont need to worry about things like this cause they already know the truth. i really wish more people could be like them but oh well. God has given you the truth and you arent certain of it so you are looking for something you wont find. I dont care if people try to turn me away from God cause i wont. and if i am wrong then thats that and if i am right then i get the greatest gift of all. I am more conserned with what God has to say than man on any day. God says his word is perfect so saying it isnt is saying that God isnt so your calling God a liar. I dont need to be hanging out with "Christians" who clam to believe these things, cause i am really do doubting that you claim to be what your saying


Well no point arguing with you any further, you fail to understand my point, have a meaningless rant and then you accuse me of not being a true believer. Nice one.


oh sorry it just seems like your not a true believer like you claim to be. i believe that God whouldnt let his world be miss translated if it was holding our salvation in it. oh well maybe someday you will understand my point.....i do agree though this is a pointless arguement and yes i fail to ever understand some of the people in this world. I feel like the only one i can trust is God's word
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Posted 1/24/09 , edited 1/24/09

SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


clearwateralchemist wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:


Ratman21 wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:

the bible that we have now is not the REAL REAL one but its close enough to teach us and to understand his word. But I wonder why god did that. "His plan maybe" but the bible IS trure


What do you mean by the REAL REAL one???


The real bible is lost or gone, the bible that we have is close to it, that all am saying, I just wanted to say that but I know that the word of god is the truth


The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days.

Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies written in the old testament. The chance of one person fullfilling just 8 of the prophesies is 1 out of 10 to the 17th power. Imagine the state of texas filled with silver dollars. You mark one of those silver dollars with a red x and mix all those silver dollars up. And you have one chance to pull the silver dollar with a red x. That's the chances you have for one person fulfilling EIGHT of those prophesies. Now imagine if you would trying to fulfill 108 prophesies. The probability of fulfilling so many is lower than pulling one specific atom in the universe out of all the atoms in the universe.

Next, where the Bible mentions a town, pool, city or major landmark, Archaeologists have located it. One example is the Pool of Bethsaida, where people didn't believe it actually existed and said the Bible was wrong because, 'Ah, the pool doesn't exist, it is wrong!' Guess what, they found the pool of Bethsaida in 1888 when remodeling a house, or something like that.

Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again.

The whole Bible, on the other hand, was fervently copied by Monks in in the middle/dark Ages. One person would be given a verse or chapter. Then, if the verse held up under scrutiny, the page was passed onto another monk, who copied another verse/chapter. If even the slightest thing was wrong, the page of the Bible and all the monks' collective hard work was burned and they had to start again.

Trust me, the Bible is accurate and the real deal. There is less certainty about the writings of shakespheare in comparison to the Bible, and that is only a few hundred years old while the Bible is over a thousand years old. It can also be compared to ancient manuscripts. The Bible is remarkably well preserved over time.


While I do believe the general messages in the bible are true, I can't help but point out that some of the things you said here are slightly, well, wrong. You have to remember that there are many possible reasons for each of the things you mentioned.

"The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days"

While this may sound like the cynics answer you must accept that the bible has been modified over the centuries (which it has undoubtedly been unfortunately) so this is not surprising in the least. The accounts that didn't fit will have either been changed so they all fit together or will simply have been omitted over the years by various men in powerful positions who found such action convenient to their own purposes.

"Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again"

While this is true its actually irrelevant- the translation errors come when you, well, translate it, not when you simply copy the original as in this case. You will find that errors are inevitably made upon translating a text (particularly one as ambiguous as the bible) simply because there aren't always words for something or a way of saying precisely the same thing in the new language. In addition to get a perfect translation you need someone who perfectly understands the message being conveyed- in other words you need someone who understands the bible exactly and knows all the hidden messages and secrets in the words of God so that the messages aren't lost when its written in a different way. In other words they need to know exactly what God thinks, and know the 'true interpretation' if you will. I don't know of anyone who claims to know everything there is to know about the bible, do you? You also need to consider that even a tiny mistranslation can alter the whole meaning of a sentence. (for example, 'he eats, shoots, and leaves' changes meaning completely if you so much as forget the commas to 'he eats shoots and leaves') In a book like the bible there are so many uncertain interpretations to the point that a slight error could easily put people on the wrong track)

See my point?


The only way the Bible has benn "modified" is for easier translations. If you look at the original pages (which we do have) you will be surprised how accurate they are to the bibles we have today


Unfortunately that isn't true (no matter how much I want to be wrong on this I'm not) There is significant historical evidence that shows that Christianity as a religion was heavily modified by the Romans when it became their state religion. It was made to be much more like the traditional roman system so as to avoid alienating those who still held true to their old belief system. Feel free to look this up, you don't need to take my word for it.


i found no evidence on what your saying but i did fine this
"For those who cry, "Translation error!" remember that the New Testament was written in Greek and a great many people read Greek today. We would have heard about it if there were translation errors from Greek into English. Oh boy, would we have heard about it! The Interpreter's Bible and others like it allow you to see all possibilities for every translated word.
The New Testament is the most copied and discussed manuscript ever. Check one early saint's letter against another, one historian's letter against another, one ruler's letter against another, one manuscript against another, one commentary against another, and you will find no conflict about the New Testament. You will find disagreements about theology, but little argument about the content of the scriptures themselves. It is only in the current day that theologians think they can re-translate the New Testament to make it "better."

your the only person i have ever heard say this. cause if you were right there would be alot of talk about it today but there isnt. plus if you hope what your saying isnt true then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place?


I'm sorry but what you just said is one of the worst things about most of my fellow christians. 'If you hope its true, then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place' Just because you and I wish it to be true does not make it so. I seek the truth, and will not bury my head in the sand and pretend the uncomfortable parts of my faith aren't there. That my friend would make me ignorant. So I always, always seek the truth, even if I don't like what I find. This is by the way what brought me to my faith in the first place- my quest for the truth. I truly believe that God and his son are incorruptible truths and we must thank them eternally for what they have done for us but I am not so foolish to believe that a book falls under the same rules, particularly a book written by men (about God, but nonetheless written by the easily swayed heart and hand of mankind- this after all is why we need God's guidance in the first place). The bible is certainly an important and informative resource but it should always be taken with a pinch of salt- it is not God or Jesus, therefore it cannot be perfect. Added to this I suggest you broaden your horizons somewhat- the fact that you have heard little of this suggests that you predominantly associate with other Christians- who as I mentioned earlier tend to avert their gaze away from such matters rather than face up to it and challenge it. They probably won't know or if they do they are unlikely to talk about it. Bring this topic up in conversation with some atheists or agnostics and see if they have heard of it. And rather than ask you to go and look for the source again I will go and find it for you, but some other time as I have exams this week and will be quite busy until next weekend. Bear with me, I will Pm you towards the end of next week.



I seek the truth as well and i know that the bible is right i dont need what you or anyone else says and i really dont care. we will all see whats rigth after death. and as for "broaden your horizons somewhat" i am around very intelligent Christian teachers that have traveled around the world learning about different faiths and their own to see just why their faith is the right one. They have convidence in their faith that they dont need to worry about things like this cause they already know the truth. i really wish more people could be like them but oh well. God has given you the truth and you arent certain of it so you are looking for something you wont find. I dont care if people try to turn me away from God cause i wont. and if i am wrong then thats that and if i am right then i get the greatest gift of all. I am more conserned with what God has to say than man on any day. God says his word is perfect so saying it isnt is saying that God isnt so your calling God a liar. I dont need to be hanging out with "Christians" who clam to believe these things, cause i am really do doubting that you claim to be what your saying


Well no point arguing with you any further, you fail to understand my point, have a meaningless rant and then you accuse me of not being a true believer. Nice one.


Alright everyone, let's take a big step backwards and take a deep breath. We all agree there isn't translation error, correct? Now, it seems to me (though I might be wrong) that Saint Maki believes there was a huge conspiracy throughout history to change the Bible at one point in time to suit their needs...no matter what their needs might be. The ancient Catholic Church has been a huge black spot on Christian history, I'm not denying that (inquisition, indulgences, 'Hail Maries').

Someone would have caught on to such a conspiracy, it's just not logical that such a massive conspiracy could have taken place without someone right not noticing. Besides, if there was a change in the accounts or Bible, it would contradict the ancient manuscripts (and don't start saying those are faked, because I don't buy it).

About testing the Bible, the Bible even says, "Test all things and hold onto what is good (or something like that)." I admire that you want the Bible to be true and that you are testing it. There's a book out there written by Josh McDowell called, Evidence that demands a verdict. It's a really big book, but it should help you if you really want the Bible to be true. It should help a lot. It sure helped me.

Josh McDowell was once an agnostic, but became a Christian when he found the evidence supports Christianity, not disproves it. Again, I hope it will help.
Posted 1/24/09

clearwateralchemist wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


willnaruto101 wrote:


SaintMacki wrote:


clearwateralchemist wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:


Ratman21 wrote:


Kamahamaha wrote:

the bible that we have now is not the REAL REAL one but its close enough to teach us and to understand his word. But I wonder why god did that. "His plan maybe" but the bible IS trure


What do you mean by the REAL REAL one???


The real bible is lost or gone, the bible that we have is close to it, that all am saying, I just wanted to say that but I know that the word of god is the truth


The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days.

Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophesies written in the old testament. The chance of one person fullfilling just 8 of the prophesies is 1 out of 10 to the 17th power. Imagine the state of texas filled with silver dollars. You mark one of those silver dollars with a red x and mix all those silver dollars up. And you have one chance to pull the silver dollar with a red x. That's the chances you have for one person fulfilling EIGHT of those prophesies. Now imagine if you would trying to fulfill 108 prophesies. The probability of fulfilling so many is lower than pulling one specific atom in the universe out of all the atoms in the universe.

Next, where the Bible mentions a town, pool, city or major landmark, Archaeologists have located it. One example is the Pool of Bethsaida, where people didn't believe it actually existed and said the Bible was wrong because, 'Ah, the pool doesn't exist, it is wrong!' Guess what, they found the pool of Bethsaida in 1888 when remodeling a house, or something like that.

Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again.

The whole Bible, on the other hand, was fervently copied by Monks in in the middle/dark Ages. One person would be given a verse or chapter. Then, if the verse held up under scrutiny, the page was passed onto another monk, who copied another verse/chapter. If even the slightest thing was wrong, the page of the Bible and all the monks' collective hard work was burned and they had to start again.

Trust me, the Bible is accurate and the real deal. There is less certainty about the writings of shakespheare in comparison to the Bible, and that is only a few hundred years old while the Bible is over a thousand years old. It can also be compared to ancient manuscripts. The Bible is remarkably well preserved over time.


While I do believe the general messages in the bible are true, I can't help but point out that some of the things you said here are slightly, well, wrong. You have to remember that there are many possible reasons for each of the things you mentioned.

"The Bible was written by 33 different authors in all walks of life (happiness, sorrow, angery, etc), over a period of a couple thousand years. All 33 authors tell pretty much the same story. You can't get 4 people who saw a car accident to give such a succent (similar) account in a court of law these days"

While this may sound like the cynics answer you must accept that the bible has been modified over the centuries (which it has undoubtedly been unfortunately) so this is not surprising in the least. The accounts that didn't fit will have either been changed so they all fit together or will simply have been omitted over the years by various men in powerful positions who found such action convenient to their own purposes.

"Now, you might say there were translation errors. That is incorrect. Throughout history, from ancient to modern, The Tora (old testament) has been fervently copied by Jewish scholars. If even the slightest thing is wrong, the text is thrown out and they have to start again"

While this is true its actually irrelevant- the translation errors come when you, well, translate it, not when you simply copy the original as in this case. You will find that errors are inevitably made upon translating a text (particularly one as ambiguous as the bible) simply because there aren't always words for something or a way of saying precisely the same thing in the new language. In addition to get a perfect translation you need someone who perfectly understands the message being conveyed- in other words you need someone who understands the bible exactly and knows all the hidden messages and secrets in the words of God so that the messages aren't lost when its written in a different way. In other words they need to know exactly what God thinks, and know the 'true interpretation' if you will. I don't know of anyone who claims to know everything there is to know about the bible, do you? You also need to consider that even a tiny mistranslation can alter the whole meaning of a sentence. (for example, 'he eats, shoots, and leaves' changes meaning completely if you so much as forget the commas to 'he eats shoots and leaves') In a book like the bible there are so many uncertain interpretations to the point that a slight error could easily put people on the wrong track)

See my point?


The only way the Bible has benn "modified" is for easier translations. If you look at the original pages (which we do have) you will be surprised how accurate they are to the bibles we have today


Unfortunately that isn't true (no matter how much I want to be wrong on this I'm not) There is significant historical evidence that shows that Christianity as a religion was heavily modified by the Romans when it became their state religion. It was made to be much more like the traditional roman system so as to avoid alienating those who still held true to their old belief system. Feel free to look this up, you don't need to take my word for it.


i found no evidence on what your saying but i did fine this
"For those who cry, "Translation error!" remember that the New Testament was written in Greek and a great many people read Greek today. We would have heard about it if there were translation errors from Greek into English. Oh boy, would we have heard about it! The Interpreter's Bible and others like it allow you to see all possibilities for every translated word.
The New Testament is the most copied and discussed manuscript ever. Check one early saint's letter against another, one historian's letter against another, one ruler's letter against another, one manuscript against another, one commentary against another, and you will find no conflict about the New Testament. You will find disagreements about theology, but little argument about the content of the scriptures themselves. It is only in the current day that theologians think they can re-translate the New Testament to make it "better."

your the only person i have ever heard say this. cause if you were right there would be alot of talk about it today but there isnt. plus if you hope what your saying isnt true then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place?


I'm sorry but what you just said is one of the worst things about most of my fellow christians. 'If you hope its true, then why go out of the way to prove the bible is wrong in the first place' Just because you and I wish it to be true does not make it so. I seek the truth, and will not bury my head in the sand and pretend the uncomfortable parts of my faith aren't there. That my friend would make me ignorant. So I always, always seek the truth, even if I don't like what I find. This is by the way what brought me to my faith in the first place- my quest for the truth. I truly believe that God and his son are incorruptible truths and we must thank them eternally for what they have done for us but I am not so foolish to believe that a book falls under the same rules, particularly a book written by men (about God, but nonetheless written by the easily swayed heart and hand of mankind- this after all is why we need God's guidance in the first place). The bible is certainly an important and informative resource but it should always be taken with a pinch of salt- it is not God or Jesus, therefore it cannot be perfect. Added to this I suggest you broaden your horizons somewhat- the fact that you have heard little of this suggests that you predominantly associate with other Christians- who as I mentioned earlier tend to avert their gaze away from such matters rather than face up to it and challenge it. They probably won't know or if they do they are unlikely to talk about it. Bring this topic up in conversation with some atheists or agnostics and see if they have heard of it. And rather than ask you to go and look for the source again I will go and find it for you, but some other time as I have exams this week and will be quite busy until next weekend. Bear with me, I will Pm you towards the end of next week.



I seek the truth as well and i know that the bible is right i dont need what you or anyone else says and i really dont care. we will all see whats rigth after death. and as for "broaden your horizons somewhat" i am around very intelligent Christian teachers that have traveled around the world learning about different faiths and their own to see just why their faith is the right one. They have convidence in their faith that they dont need to worry about things like this cause they already know the truth. i really wish more people could be like them but oh well. God has given you the truth and you arent certain of it so you are looking for something you wont find. I dont care if people try to turn me away from God cause i wont. and if i am wrong then thats that and if i am right then i get the greatest gift of all. I am more conserned with what God has to say than man on any day. God says his word is perfect so saying it isnt is saying that God isnt so your calling God a liar. I dont need to be hanging out with "Christians" who clam to believe these things, cause i am really do doubting that you claim to be what your saying


Well no point arguing with you any further, you fail to understand my point, have a meaningless rant and then you accuse me of not being a true believer. Nice one.


Alright everyone, let's take a big step backwards and take a deep breath. We all agree there isn't translation error, correct? Now, it seems to me (though I might be wrong) that Saint Maki believes there was a huge conspiracy throughout history to change the Bible at one point in time to suit their needs...no matter what their needs might be. The ancient Catholic Church has been a huge black spot on Christian history, I'm not denying that (inquisition, indulgences, 'Hail Maries').

Someone would have caught on to such a conspiracy, it's just not logical that such a massive conspiracy could have taken place without someone right not noticing. Besides, if there was a change in the accounts or Bible, it would contradict the ancient manuscripts (and don't start saying those are faked, because I don't buy it).

About testing the Bible, the Bible even says, "Test all things and hold onto what is good (or something like that)." I admire that you want the Bible to be true and that you are testing it. There's a book out there written by Josh McDowell called, Evidence that demands a verdict. It's a really big book, but it should help you if you really want the Bible to be true. It should help a lot. It sure helped me.

Josh McDowell was once an agnostic, but became a Christian when he found the evidence supports Christianity, not disproves it. Again, I hope it will help.


i hope this helps everyone that looks at it. i think i should take a look at his book as well. thanks!
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Posted 1/25/09
Warning: That book, though helpful, was extremely boring and big. The answers backed by research and scripture are probably in there, but It's not really something for recreational reading.
Posted 1/29/09
I understand what you guys are saying I wanted to start something like this. Me and my friend(hes a Muslim and am a Christian). We've been arguing about this for a long time, we do it a little now, so I just wanted to get some answers form people in this group thanks saint, clearwater and willnaruto
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