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A child's life
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27 / M
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Posted 4/22/07 , edited 4/22/07
Recently I was talking with a few of my father’s college buddies. As usually I was quick to grab at any chance for semi intellectual conversation topics. (The only problem is that most college students are only slightly less stupid than high school students. Still, I’m surrounded by morons.)

Some how or another we came to the topic of some child killer. I said something along the lines of, “How could somebody actually go out and hurt a small child?”

One of the more… “open minded” (Not masking my sarcasm) members of our little gang was quick to start shouting, “I hate that! Why do people think that children’s lives are more important? Just because their kids! Their no more important than I am. Don’t even contribute to society. Only a moron would say such a foolish thing!” (Her last piece was a clear attack against me.) Obviously offended, and eager to put her in her place, I was quick with my own childish retort. (I’m still an immature youth myself.) “Like you contribute anything to society you fat hog! You just shovel food and free load off your parents.” (The woman is morbidly obese, and a spoiled lazy moron who thinks she’s a genius because her IQ is 127.)

Anyway, she was very adamant about it. A couple of the other members of the group calmed us down and we managed to talk our way back to a calm conversation instead of a stupid argument. We decided that the ultimate question to ask was, “If an adult of important status either to the nation or world was trapped in a burning building, and a small child was also trapped in the building, who would you save?”

I was all for the child. I figured most people would be, but most of the group was ambivalent. Four didn’t answer. One answered the adult, and the two answered the child. (Including myself) So what about the rest of you? What would you pick? Do you honestly think a child’s life is more important than an adults? Why? Why not?

I think children are innocent, not yet corrupted by the world. I place more value in their lives because of these attributes. Also, being that they are so new to the world, they’ve not had the chance to experience things that an adult has. Everybody should get a first kiss, a first crush, a first love, all these other things.


Edit: I do not have anything against people who are over weight. I made that remark in my own childish fit of rage.
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26 / M / VA, USA
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Posted 4/22/07
I think it'd depend on what ppl have a heart for........ it would also depend on their guilt and or self confidence......... in the end... i think it all just depends on the person....
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28 / M / It be sleepy time...
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Posted 4/22/07
Seraph you are awfully full of yourself now aren't you. Of course kids are important they are pretty much the future period. Though in truth they are no more important then adults who protect and nurture them as well as provide a place in society for them to live. To say one is more important than the other is foolish and down right stupid.

Oh and I would save neither in your little question there because I am not the Heroic type to put my own ass on the line to save someone else. In truth this question is pretty much pointless because of course the majority are going to pick the child, children tug more affectively at the heart strings than adults do it is something politicians have known for years. Thus children show up in political ads all the time.

In general though this topic is just stupid. Not to mention it is as though you are trying to flaunt your intelligence. What you say about children while it may be true, though you could also argue that adults are more important they have the experience and the understanding about the world around them that children lack, children remain 'uncorrupted' for only so long. A child is a possibility a future potential, where the adult is something that is set and can be seen how and what things they will contributed to society to make it in general a better place.
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Posted 4/22/07
Oh well you could always say something like"a child still has a future, an adult has only a few years", but if the guy was sympathetic and the child was a stupid brat, yeah I'd save the guy, regardless if he's important to society or not. If he was an asshole but the saviour of my country I'd let him die and help the child.
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77 / M / in and around you...
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Posted 4/22/07
this is a deep thought, most people would say the children cause of their innocent, but in reality, the adult of important status to "the nation or world " would come as a higher priority
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27 / M
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Posted 4/22/07

JesterJ

Seraph you are awfully full of yourself now aren't you. Of course kids are important they are pretty much the future period. Though in truth they are no more important then adults who protect and nurture them as well as provide a place in society for them to live. To say one is more important than the other is foolish and down right stupid.

Oh and I would save neither in your little question there because I am not the Heroic type to put my own ass on the line to save someone else. In truth this question is pretty much pointless because of course the majority are going to pick the child, children tug more affectively at the heart strings than adults do it is something politicians have known for years. Thus children show up in political ads all the time.

In general though this topic is just stupid. Not to mention it is as though you are trying to flaunt your intelligence. What you say about children while it may be true, though you could also argue that adults are more important they have the experience and the understanding about the world around them that children lack, children remain 'uncorrupted' for only so long. A child is a possibility a future potential, where an adult is something that is set and can be seen how and what things they will contributed to society to make it in general a better place.


Yes. I will not deny the truth. I’m egotistical. This is amongst my many flaws. I’m imperfect. However, reading over your post, I would say that of the two of us you are certainly far more arrogant than I! This is of course my opinion, but I’ll explain it.

You, my friend, refer to other people’s beliefs as stupid. I’d never think myself so great as to decide what beliefs are stupid or not. You also criticize other people, whom you don’t know, without provocation. I’d not be so full of myself to do this either. (And before you go saying, “That’s what your doing” I’m going to point at the ‘without provocation.’)

Well, let’s not argue about this. In response to your opinion, I disagree strongly. I think a child’s life is more important than a man’s because there is still great opportunity for the child. The child may become far more beneficial in his adulthood than the man himself. You never know. Also, children are a symbol of hope and purity all across the world. A child’s death hit’s the public like a dismal brick. Besides that, Children are innocent; moreover, they’re not lustful or arrogant.

That’s my opinion. Now, you’re welcome to yours. Heck, you’re even welcome to believe mine is stupid. However, I am going to have to respectfully ask you to respect my views. I don’t call yours stupid or wrong even though I clearly disagree with it. Why? Because it’s opinion.

Now, if I came on here making racist remarks then that would be another story. That falls under the category of provocation, as that would be my own fault for lack of tact. Although, this being said, I must apologies. I just read my post and want people to know I have nothing against morbidly obese people.

@Ahojcookie: That's an interesting way of looking at it. But, do you truly think a small child has enough understanding of his actions to realize that in being a brat he's hurting other people? I don't think it is right to condemn a kid because he's a brat, sense he doesn't realize the error of being that way....

@Kik: Yes, I s'pose you're most likely right from a neutral point of view. I think that you're logically correct, but do you think it's morally right?
killar 
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34 / M / Texas
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Posted 4/22/07
When faced with a question like this you have to throw morals out the window. Any smart, sane person knows that the adult is of more importance than the kid. Saving the kid is a gamble, they could turn out to be the best leader the world has ever seen. Or a fat lazy stoner. But by saving the adult, you know what your getting and you know the world will be better off with the adult alive.
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28 / M / It be sleepy time...
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Posted 4/22/07
People like you make me want to laugh seraph, claiming to not judge others opinions, but that just means you do not do it openly for to judge and to be judge is part of being human. I was mainly calling the questions itself stupid, for words are merely pretty flowery things that hold no true iron. In that situation you may say one thing but your actions in the end may be something different. It is natural for most people, to say what they believe will be the nicest and must publicly accepted answer, to fit in with the status quo. In the moment of action, though who can say what someone will do, or won't do. Oh and on the note of arrogance never said I wasn't just pointing yours out, though I am not arrogant for judging your opinion it just means I am human.

Another note about society in general, any untimely death should hit society like a brick as you put it. Also, whether you are aware of it or not children make the best tools just because of their innocence, they are easily manipulated and used. It is not something I pride myself in being aware of or realizing it is just a cold and disturbing fact of reality. This will be my last comment on here, I do not intend on making this a battle ground, for what in the long run amounts to a pointless argument. Plus it looks like I am going to be proven wrong on the most people picking the child, and I hate being proven wrong.
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30 / M / US
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Posted 4/22/07
Some random thoughts:
-did you miss my quiz or what?
-As Dr. Tenema would say, "all lives are equal!!!"
-Save the planet--shoot a do-gooder!
-"Women and children fist into the life rafts!"
- Quid pro quo?
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Posted 4/22/07

killar wrote:

When faced with a question like this you have to throw morals out the window. Any smart, sane person knows that the adult is of more importance than the kid. Saving the kid is a gamble, they could turn out to be the best leader the world has ever seen. Or a fat lazy stoner. But by saving the adult, you know what your getting and you know the world will be better off with the adult alive.


This is a good point.

Physically though a child would be easier to save. Since it's most likely that the adult would be incapacitated there might not be a reasonable chance of you actually saving them depending on their mass and your strength whereas there could be a very good chance of you saving the child.

Edit: I would like to point out that the argument of "no one should hurt a child" isn't an argument of importance, it's an argument of innocence.
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Posted 4/22/07

SeraphAlford wrote:

@Ahojcookie: That's an interesting way of looking at it. But, do you truly think a small child has enough understanding of his actions to realize that in being a brat he's hurting other people? I don't think it is right to condemn a kid because he's a brat, sense he doesn't realize the error of being that way...


Well, let's say I have a spoiled brat sensor, because I had a rather strong sense of wrong or right as a kid and I hated brats even then. They won't turn out to be much better as adults from my experience, that's what I was getting at. Still you may give children more credit in terms of innocence than they deserve. They usually understand very well when they're doing something wrong. Still insisting on it is what makes them brats.
I'm not condemning them because of that,
I just refuse to choose them over someone else because they're are broadly considered pure and innocent. So when you say:


SeraphAlford wrote:
Also, children are a symbol of hope and purity all across the world. A child’s death hit’s the public like a dismal brick. Besides that, Children are innocent; moreover, they’re not lustful or arrogant.


This right there might have been what your friend was getting so mad about. It's unfair that a child's death hits the public like a dismal brick. It's not necessarily more innocent than an adult. The pureness results from inexperience, that's no achievement, rather the opposite. Children have character traits that get more or less developed during their life. It can't be said which. But some children are really nasty. Why not give someone who has struggled a lot longer than 6 or 7 years the credit he deserves? I'm not interested in the importance factor, I hate functionality, all I'd consider in this: Is the child really a better person, because it's a child?
q_h
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Posted 4/22/07
it's a difficult question for me 'cause it's be hard to let either one go.. i'd try to find ways to save both. reasons to save the adult have been well given, such as by killar. so to just add why would one save the child..

for me it's because the child hasn't had as much time to experience life (what S.A. somewhat pointed out)... there's are so many lessons in life for humans to experience and learn, so many changes for one to undergo. this argument concerns less of whether or not he will turn out to be useful to the society, as already mentioned -- it's a risk... but even if he will not contribute much, there must be lives that he influences just by interacting with others.

these are just my thoughts at the moment...
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Posted 4/22/07

SeraphAlford wrote:

You, my friend, refer to other people’s beliefs as stupid. I’d never think myself so great as to decide what beliefs are stupid or not. You also criticize other people, whom you don’t know, without provocation. I’d not be so full of myself to do this either. (And before you go saying, “That’s what your doing” I’m going to point at the ‘without provocation.’)



SeraphAlford wrote:

One of the more… “open minded” (Not masking my sarcasm) members of our little gang was quick to start shouting, “I hate that! Why do people think that children’s lives are more important? Just because their kids! Their no more important than I am. Don’t even contribute to society. Only a moron would say such a foolish thing!” (Her last piece was a clear attack against me.) Obviously offended, and eager to put her in her place, I was quick with my own childish retort. (I’m still an immature youth myself.) “Like you contribute anything to society you fat hog! You just shovel food and free load off your parents.” (The woman is morbidly obese, and a spoiled lazy moron who thinks she’s a genius because her IQ is 127.)



"I’d never think myself so great as to decide what beliefs are stupid or not."
yet u called one of the adults a moron for having a different belief/moral
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27 / M
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Posted 4/22/07

This is a good point.
Physically though a child would be easier to save. Since it's most likely that the adult would be incapacitated there might not be a reasonable chance of you actually saving them depending on their mass and your strength whereas there could be a very good chance of you saving the child.
Edit: I would like to point out that the argument of "no one should hurt a child" isn't an argument of importance, it's an argument of innocence.

I think you may have missed the point of this... :p



Ahojcookie

SeraphAlford wrote:

@Ahojcookie: That's an interesting way of looking at it. But, do you truly think a small child has enough understanding of his actions to realize that in being a brat he's hurting other people? I don't think it is right to condemn a kid because he's a brat, sense he doesn't realize the error of being that way...”

Well, let's say I have a spoiled brat sensor, because I had a rather strong sense of wrong or right as a kid and I hated brats even then. They won't turn out to be much better as adults from my experience, that's what I was getting at. Still you may give children more credit in terms of innocence than they deserve. They usually understand very well when they're doing something wrong. Still insisting on it is what makes them brats.
I'm not condemning them because of that,
I just refuse to choose them over someone else because they're are broadly considered pure and innocent. So when you say:


SeraphAlford wrote:
Also, children are a symbol of hope and purity all across the world. A child’s death hit’s the public like a dismal brick. Besides that, Children are innocent; moreover, they’re not lustful or arrogant.


This right there might have been what your friend was getting so mad about. It's unfair that a child's death hits the public like a dismal brick. It's not necessarily more innocent than an adult. The pureness results from inexperience, that's no achievement, rather the opposite. Children have character traits that get more or less developed during their life. It can't be said which. But some children are really nasty. Why not give someone who has struggled a lot longer than 6 or 7 years the credit he deserves? I'm not interested in the importance factor, I hate functionality, all I'd consider in this: Is the child really a better person, because it's a child?


You might be right. Maybe I am giving a child too much credit… Also, I suppose that you’re right. If this adult is a truly good person, he/she has struggled to be a truly good person for many years. Thus, I think they do deserve credit.

I suppose that “My friend” was getting upset about that. I understand where she was coming from a bit better now, maybe I was too quick to label her as ignorant when she was really just rash. Yes, I s’pose that’s my fault. I admit I was wrong there.

However, I was a horrible child. I only cared about myself. Now, I’m still a horrible person when it comes to how much I sin, but towards other people I’m pretty nice. (In other words my sins are the kind that hurt my relationship with God but don’t hurt other people. Basically, the stuff I do behind closed doors… Sorry to give so much info.) I’ve also known other children who were bullies and brats but have now become very good adults. So our experience clashes. But, that’s a matter of our personal lives.

Now then, I do feel that children know when they are doing something wrong, but I don’t think they completely comprehend why it’s wrong. I don’t think they understand the consequences of their actions, and from what I’ve study of child psychology I’m certain they don’t understand how their actions effect others. At least not in the way that we might…

Still, if I could look and see that the kid would become a horrible murderer, then I s’pose I would say the man is the better person. (If there is such thing as better people.) I guess I would save him…



Edit:

pwned?
"I’d never think myself so great as to decide what beliefs are stupid or not."
yet u called one of the adults a moron for having a different belief/moral [/quote}

You're taking what I said out of context. I didn't say she was stupid for her beliefs, I just said she was stupid. I was using her method of getting her beliefs across to demonstrate this. Also, I was not being 100% serious when I wrote that. Please try and be more mature in the future.
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Posted 4/22/07
Everyone knows that you can get a much nicer price if you are selling a child on the black market than if you are selling an adult. So yes, children are worth more.
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