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The Anime Fansub Groups, Stealing From Anime Studio One Episode At A Time
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Posted 11/2/08

zendude wrote:


riku911 wrote:


zendude wrote:



I wonder how much is Shinji is making on this deal. "LAWL"


that is something we will never know


Do you think that BasouKazuma know? "LAWL"


Im guessing that the BK most mots talks about
i dont know who he is so i have no idea
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Posted 11/2/08 , edited 11/2/08

riku911 wrote:


zendude wrote:


riku911 wrote:


zendude wrote:



I wonder how much is Shinji is making on this deal. "LAWL"


that is something we will never know


Do you think that BasouKazuma know? "LAWL"


Im guessing that the BK most mots talks about
i dont know who he is so i have no idea


Never mind about BK. That's for another time.


Now back to the topic:
How much affect does streaming sites have on the Anime industry, North America Front?
Interestingly enough, Code Geass R2 is already being shown in DUB (I am currently watching it.) in the Adult Swim block of Cartoon Network.

This is actually a fast transition from Japan to America, considering Code Geass R2 was only finished in Japan several weeks ago. Actually, this is one of the first cases that I have seen something like that, which is kind of weird.

Also consider, the Adult Swim site is legally streaming Code Geass R2 for free, but Code Geass R2 is in the dead time block of Adult Swim.


- When all things considered, does this show signs of desperation, strength, or both?
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Posted 11/2/08

DomFortress wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

And perhaps the biggest misconception of all, is to think that fansub groups didn't alter the content of anime series, thereby not violating copyright act. Unless the original sources were meant to came with subtitles, the fansub groups had already violated the original creators' consent by altering the original sources with subtitles. This alteration which changed the original sources into different materials entirely, is what preventing fansub groups from breaking International Copyright Act; they are not releasing the exact same things without the original creators consent, but rather they're somethings different. This is also why fansub groups are doing this for free; for what seems to be a generous act out of the kindness of their hearts, hides the fact that they can't demand recognitions nor contributions due to their illegitimate practice.



The anime subculture is being populated by an ever increasing number of newer fans. But at the same time, these fans are being misinformed by a lot of misconceptions. This can easily make them become ignorant, immature, and shallow.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution clearly stated that the public have the right to know. This means that we don't just have the right to request our information to be exact, we also have the duty to present our information to others without alteration. And personally, I see this as the highest form of respecting others through self-respect.

Therefore, I sincerely ask for your help in clearing up the misconceptions in anime subculture; those who would like to help themselves by getting well informed, and others who can offer to help. At the same time, please respect those that are only here to disturb the good intention of others, by promptly reporting them to the crunchyroll mods with a thank you note for their hard work.

Here's a reference made by CR user zendude regarding anime business making compromise. I suspect this is mostly, if not by partial, due to illegitimate fansubs:

zendude wrote:

As you have mentioned before that the production quality of Animes have dramatically sloped due to competing with fansubs, thus leaving us with a bunch of second rate Animes.
http://zepy.momotato.com/2008/08/30/anime-business/


This is a quick translated version of a anime production chart, please note that anime studios can only make up their loses when making anime with DVD sales:


Here are more news regarding the steady decline in anime industry, with the last link being a detailed report on The Current State of Anime Industry as of SEPT. 29th, 2008:


zendude wrote:

Something to add here.
A bit old.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2005-08-10/state-of-animation-industry-in-japan


The anime market sales in Japan declined from a high of 213.5 billion yen in 2002, to 191.2 billion yen in 2003(a 10.4% drop).


This one is a bit recent.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/convention/2008/new-york-anime-festival-state-of-the-anime-industry


Notably, however, the drop in anime DVD sales has been more precipitous, despite the ever-growing interest in anime in the United States. Anime DVD sales netted roughly $600 million per year in the early 2000s, but have since decreased by $250 million.



According to Macdonald, one of the reasons the DVD market is shrinking is because of online competition. The presence of pirating, bootlegging, and fansubs means content that is not being monetized by the companies.




And now I'll open the topic for discussion.


I see, that is true...But um, this happens everywhere, there is nothing much that can be done. Also, since Crunchyroll is full of animes, dramas that has be altered by subtitles, is this side considered illegal?

This is all useful but I'm not sure where you're trying to get with this...Um telling us to be weary and support them by buying DVDs, I can see that since I buy them and I want to help the anime companies

Other than that...The only other way is to make people stop watching subbed animes. Um, and it's not very convincing since you posted this in a website full of illegally subbed animes
Posted 11/2/08 , edited 11/2/08
I bought an ep of Blassreiter the other day, and I'll tell you what, whoever encoded the AVI needs to take a very basic lesson from an encoder in a fansub group, either that or actually give crunchyroll the footage they'll be putting on their DVD release.

Digital distribution should be an equal alternative to DVDs, not some shoddy make a bit of money side project.
Posted 11/2/08

zendude wrote:



Never mind about BK. That's for another time.


Now back to the topic:
How much affect does streaming sites have on the Anime industry, North America Front?
Interestingly enough, Code Geass R2 is already being shown in DUB (I am currently watching it.) in the Adult Swim block of Cartoon Network.

This is actually a fast transition from Japan to America, considering Code Geass R2 was only finished in Japan several weeks ago. Actually, this is one of the first cases that I have seen something like that, which is kind of weird.

Also consider, the Adult Swim site is legally streaming Code Geass R2 for free, but Code Geass R2 is in the dead time block of Adult Swim.


- When all things considered, does this show signs of desperation, strength, or both?


It's an obvious sign that licensing company like Bandai Visual are picking up their pace to protect their property while introduce the market with the newer series ASAP. Other examples of such are:

1) Shikabane Hime: Aka by Gainax got licensed by FUNimation only just after its 3rd episode got aired in Japan, and now FUNimation is streaming the series on their YouTube site.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-10-20/funimation-confirms-shikabane-hime-aka-acquisition

2) Xamd Lost Memories by BONES is an original anime series in true HD that's licensed and streamed exclusively on the Playstaion 3 Store, with the North American audiences having advance viewing privilege 2 months before the Japanese.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-07-18/japan-to-get-xamd-anime-two-months-after-america

Despise all that, you can still find illegitimate copies of these series being released online by fansub groups.

Personally, I see this as a sign that anime studios want anime entertainment to become mainstream with the help of licensing companies. But fansub group are still violating the original creators' consents with their illegal practice.


Miyaru wrote:



I see, that is true...But um, this happens everywhere, there is nothing much that can be done. Also, since Crunchyroll is full of animes, dramas that has be altered by subtitles, is this side considered illegal?

This is all useful but I'm not sure where you're trying to get with this...Um telling us to be weary and support them by buying DVDs, I can see that since I buy them and I want to help the anime companies

Other than that...The only other way is to make people stop watching subbed animes. Um, and it's not very convincing since you posted this in a website full of illegally subbed animes


You're fooling yourself if you think that there's nothing to be done, but the reality is that you are helping yourself and guiding the anime subculture towards the right path by getting yourself well informed like this.

crunchyroll has the potential to be of great help for the anime studios, by working directly with the original creators to bring legitimate anime series to North American audiences. However, as an online podcast community first and foremost, it's up to the users to bring forth this change with our willingness to help. But first, we need to inform as many users as we can. This is not just the right thing to do, it's the American way as stated in The First Amendment.


MisterH wrote:

I bought an ep of Blassreiter the other day, and I'll tell you what, whoever encoded the AVI needs to take a very basic lesson from an encoder in a fansub group, either that or actually give crunchyroll the footage they'll be putting on their DVD release.

Digital distribution should be an equal alternative to DVDs, not some shoddy make a bit of money side project.


At this time, it's still in a testing stage for anime studios to see if direct streaming is a possible market. But when it comes to technical details like coding and such, I agree that the fansub groups are at the forefront of that field. But what if the anime studios and fansub groups can work together on crunchyroll to bring legitimate subs at good quality? I believe that it's every anime fan's right to demand what they want, after all, fansub groups still make subs by fans for fans, but now is the chance they can do it with legitimacy!
Posted 11/2/08

kaname08 wrote:

is this the reason why most of the good ones are license here in cr?...
and many people in youtube got locked for they uploaded a certain vid....


You can't be more right even if you tried. That's exactly how it is.
Posted 11/2/08

DomFortress wrote:
At this time, it's still in a testing stage for anime studios to see if direct streaming is a possible market. But when it comes to technical details like coding and such, I agree that the fansub groups are at the forefront of that field. But what if the anime studios and fansub groups can work together on crunchyroll to bring legitimate subs at good quality? I believe that it's every anime fan's right to demand what they want, after all, fansub groups still make subs by fans for fans, but now is the chance they can do it with legitimacy!


It's not the stream though, it's the 310mb AVI.
For some reason I'd rather go download the fansub, a 230mb softsubbed MKV, and in HD resolution to boot!

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Posted 11/2/08

DomFortress wrote:


kaname08 wrote:

is this the reason why most of the good ones are license here in cr?...
and many people in youtube got locked for they uploaded a certain vid....


You can't be more right even if you tried. That's exactly how it is.


so you mean sooner or later all vids here are gonna be license and theres nothing left for us to watch....
Posted 11/2/08

MisterH wrote:


DomFortress wrote:
At this time, it's still in a testing stage for anime studios to see if direct streaming is a possible market. But when it comes to technical details like coding and such, I agree that the fansub groups are at the forefront of that field. But what if the anime studios and fansub groups can work together on crunchyroll to bring legitimate subs at good quality? I believe that it's every anime fan's right to demand what they want, after all, fansub groups still make subs by fans for fans, but now is the chance they can do it with legitimacy!


It's not the stream though, it's the 310mb AVI.
For some reason I'd rather go download the fansub, a 230mb softsubbed MKV, and in HD resolution to boot!



Then demand the HD quality soft subs from the anime studios. Just letting the fansub groups know won't get your demand across because of their illegitimate practice. Remember that marketing works in both ways between the suppliers and the consumers, and it's the anime studios who make anime, not the fansub group that steal them.
Posted 11/2/08 , edited 11/2/08
Additionally, a pirated copy of something doesn't equate to a lost sale, it equates to a monetary loss (most fansubs are from TV RAWs, so your not exactly stealing equal to the value of the DVDs)

There are a lot of people who don't have the money to buy the 100s of DVDs to match their extensive download collection, so while these people have stolen, they clearly would never have been able to partake in any "sales".
Posted 11/2/08

kaname08 wrote:



so you mean sooner or later all vids here are gonna be license and theres nothing left for us to watch....


Not if we can help it, just look at the possible solutions that I outlined in this post:

Posted 11/2/08

MisterH wrote:

Additionally, a pirated copy of something doesn't equate to a lost sale, it equates to a monetary loss (most fansubs are from TV RAWs, so your not exactly stealing equal to the value of the DVDs)

There are a lot of people who don't have the money to buy the 100s of DVDs to match their extensive download collection, so while these people have stolen, they clearly would never have been able to partake in any "sales".


Pirated copies online is lost in sale, when anime studios are now considering to stream their series directly online.
Posted 11/2/08 , edited 11/2/08

DomFortress wrote:


MisterH wrote:

Additionally, a pirated copy of something doesn't equate to a lost sale, it equates to a monetary loss (most fansubs are from TV RAWs, so your not exactly stealing equal to the value of the DVDs)

There are a lot of people who don't have the money to buy the 100s of DVDs to match their extensive download collection, so while these people have stolen, they clearly would never have been able to partake in any "sales".


Pirated copies online is lost in sale, when anime studios are now considering to stream their series directly online.


If I'm stealing your Cable TV, it doesn't mean I'm stealing your wireless internet.
Same thing, but different.
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Posted 11/2/08 , edited 11/2/08

DomFortress wrote:
You're fooling yourself if you think that there's nothing to be done, but the reality is that you are helping yourself and guiding the anime subculture towards the right path by getting yourself well informed like this.

crunchyroll has the potential to be of great help for the anime studios, by working directly with the original creators to bring legitimate anime series to North American audiences. However, as an online podcast community first and foremost, it's up to the users to bring forth this change with our willingness to help. But first, we need to inform as many users as we can. This is not just the right thing to do, it's the American way as stated in The First Amendment.


I did not say that nothing can be done, please read more carefully. I said not much, yes I am helping myself but I am also helping the anime company by buying the DVDs.

You do not know what potential that crunchyroll has, you are just a member in this community. So you cannot really say that they can be a great help for the animes studios. It will also be alot of paperwork and problems for Shinji.

Further to that. This site has so many fan subbed animes and drama that working directly with original creators will probably be impossible.

I see what you are trying to say, but I am not convinced that you are trying to do anything about it except telling such things to everyone. Working directly with a big company like the anime industry is easier said than done. As far as I'm concerned, you are just a member in this site that want to make change without looking at the administrators point of view and the anime business...

It's easy to say such things and have such plans, but, are you going to do something, how and what are you going to do that will help this site and the anime company?

I know you're asking for support and yes it's a good idea. But support does not come easily. You need more than this to make people support you.
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Posted 11/2/08

zendude wrote:


riku911 wrote:


zendude wrote:



I wonder how much is Shinji is making on this deal. "LAWL"


that is something we will never know


Do you think that BasouKazuma know? "LAWL"


That name sickens me.

@Topic
By most degrees, Fansubs isn't really damaging, What's damaging is the fact that pirates in some countries(Specifically countries like China,Indonesia and the Philippines) pirate these subbed copies and sell them by bundles, It would be ironic but i must say that even most Filipinos who are posting in CR's Drama sub-forum have seen many(or all) episodes they've watched on pirated DVDs than on crunchyroll or Veoh, Same case goes to anime as well, all i can say is, the Fansubbing industry is merely a scapegoat in this issue, blaming the fansubbing industry for the loss of the anime industry is almost no different from blaming CR as well.
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