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LoveSano wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide Kaorustalker wrote:
lol I have to admit, the thread topic made me go, "Huh?" But some of the responses had me laughing all the same.
Just to point out (in my typical long fashion):
1. As for the "That can't happen, they HATE each other!" arguments. Actually, it CAN happen BECAUSE they "hate" each other (Note: I don't think that Kaname and Zero seriously hate each other at all). Fact of the anime-world: if you have a guy and a girl in any anime that dislike each other, it's because they're too much alike and, if by the end they aren't 100% lovers, then they are the greatest of friends/rivals. They have a bond that no one else can understand or interfere with because of that tension between them - because, despite disliking each other, they absolutely KNOW each other on some instinctual level. Just because Kaname and Zero are two guys in the same predicament, doesn't mean it's impossible - most yaoi couples feature two people who completely hated each other from the very beginning, but then got to know each other, admire each other, and fell in love. The fact of the matter is, manga/anime characters only hate/dislike each other for a set amount of time, but always band together to defeat the greater evil. And through banding together, they get to respect and understand one another - even though they will swear that they still "hate" each other. In short, characters who "hate" you or just can't stand you, yet are always bickering with you are always potential love interests. So really, the whole "But, they HATE each other" argument actually just supports the possibility of them being together. ^^;
2. Just because Kaname and Zero love the same girl, doesn't mean they have to hate each other. Honestly, I don't think they hate each other because the other loves Yuuki; they're just rivals in love and are hostile towards each other because of it. The real reason why there's any hatred between them (though, it seems quite one-sided and misguided, since Kaname seems to just resent Zero while Zero seems to "hate" Kaname) is because Zero hates all Purebloods. That's as far as the hate goes - it's not specific to Kaname (though, Kaname is the one that Zero's hate is almost always geared towards); and overall, it's just a highly petty, blind prejudice towards people Zero doesn't even know. So, to me, what Zero feels towards Kaname is not even true hate - just standard dislike blown out of proportion by prejudice. On the other hand, Kaname's resentment towards Zero is born out of envy towards Zero's position with Yuuki; and later that same resentment is reaffirmed as Zero dares to point a gun at Yuuki while in his presence. Hell, in a way his reaction towards Zero could very well be a 'How dare you act as though you love her one minute, and then swear to kill her the next?' sort of thing - an outrage at Zero's hypocrisy and prejudice. Regardless of how you look at it, the fact of the matter is; where many of the fans on here are under some belief that these two are such sworn enemies that a common ground cannot be reached; in all honesty, both their feelings towards each other are outrageously simplistic, to the point where it can easily be resolved once Zero stops forcefully erecting a wall between himself and "The Purebloods". Compared to other stories in manga, where hatred actually runs deep and both sides are completely justified in their specific hate for one another; Zero's hate for Kaname and Kaname's resentment for Zero are completely laughable in its lack of severity. The only reason they even want each other dead is because it would simply solve all their emotional and mental stress - not because either really did something to deserve being killed over, but because it would just make it easier to get (and secure) Yuuki. So in the end, they don't even have any conviction towards each other - they don't feel deeply and passionately that the other should be killed; they just offhandedly feel that the other should vanish because they're in each other's way. In short, you can't even call this feeling between the two real hate - since it's ridiculously abstract and too flighty in nature.
3. In the entirety of the VK fanbase, VK has quite a lot of yaoi fans - way more than just 1%. It'd be more accurate to say that a little bit under half the VK fanbase are yaoi-fans. And no, I'm not just talking about the fanbase on here (in which age and lack of multiple perspective seem to play a significant point in this); I'm actually speaking of the entire fanbase - including the Japanese fans who generally lean more toward Kaname-love and generally are more inclined to yaoi pairing more than anyone else. In all honesty, it's more like Vampire Knight would lose 58% of its fanbase (and only if that Kaname/Zero ending becomes a random development of bad story-telling) while the already existing 42% of its yaoi fans will grow exponentially as the series gets classified under shounen-ai. What I don't really understand is why people are under the belief that, in the event that the story turns Kaname/Zero - Hino-sensei's spectacular plotting, great characters and character development, and general story of betrayal and villains in the vampire world; would just randomly disappear as soon as the story turns yaoi. Yeah, I know that a lot of people read VK because they only want to know who Yuuki is going to get with in the end, but I read VK because of the many intriguing devices that Hino-sensei puts to work. It's a good piece of literature - ten times better than Twilight (the piece of crap that it is) could ever hope to be. However, since I'm a shounen manga fan, it's probably natural that I consider the love story to come second to everything else in the work. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Kaname/Yuuki and will forever support them, but if by some random act of whimsy, Kaname/Zero end up together, I won't hate Vampire Knight as long as the story stays as fantastically interesting as it is now. If VK didn't have any interesting story aside from its (pretty basic) love story, then I would have completely ignored it like I have done with tons of other typical shoujo manga; but it's VK's intriguing story that makes me keep reading - just to find out more about the vampires and the purebloods and the mystery behind Kaname. The only shoujo I'll read are unorthodox shoujo - otherwise, I get the same story rehashed in cuter versions with just different characters (all who have the same archetypes seen in thousands of other existing works). So for me, VK's story matters much more than Kaname and Zero (clearly questionable) sexuality. Note: I'm not saying that VK is the most spectacular manga I have ever read - nor is it even one of the most (since I have read many that are much deeper, painful, and heartfelt than this - all without ever being based on a love story at all); but it is definitely one of the greatest shoujo manga I've ever read. Since VK is still fairly new though, Skip Beat! easily surpasses VK at the moment.
/Rant?
Er...Thats so gay! How can someone possibly think that zero will end up with kaname xDD Thats so sick o.O
Its kind of scary and ridicioulos xD
Also zero ISNT gay!!!!!!!! My gosh its so disgusting to think such things o.O I know same sex couples are not worse than normal sex couple and i dont have anything against them but ...PLease!!! Kaname can go and be gay xD But zero ISNT GAY! Just because of some people who have weird thoughts o.O
And I dont think hino is so sick to do someting like this and until now there is not even a LITTLE sign that zero and kaname end up tpgether xD
Its pretty clear that they both fight for yuuki and one if them will end up with her...So please o.O Dont be so ew o.OOOO
And I must repeat:
ZERO IS HETERO 100% :))))))))) Zero is a fictional character - nothing more than a pretty grouping of lines on a piece of paper. As such, Zero isn't anything that Hino-sensei doesn't make him - he has no concrete sexual preference because, duh he's never dated anyone, flirted with any girl/guy, or even acted like he wanted to be with anyone other than Yuuki. So, in fact, Zero is actually not gay or straight - he's just 'Yuuki'sexual (since Yuuki is the only person he's ever shown any sexual interest towards).
Hino-sensei wouldn't have to be "sick" to put them together at all - she may even personally like the pair as I'm finding that there are female mangaka who have secret yaoi pairs of their favorite characters in their own manga (KHR's mangaka, Akira-sensei, actually surprised me with that). Of course, these same mangaka will most likely never incorporate those pairs in the actual manga (since, like with Akira-sensei, to do so would be to screw with the whole demographic that is reading her manga) so there's nothing to worry about.
Note, though - Hino-sensei didn't have that feeding scene between Kaname and Zero for no reason (though, you probably won't see the significance in Zero drinking from Kaname or the serious yaoi fodder in that intense scene). Anywho, Kaname/Zero runs rampant in the VK fandom (mostly due to that scene that Hino-sensei put there just to fan the flames) - so it's not even half as much of a bogus idea as you may think.
Personally, I highly doubt that Hino-sensei will put them together - still, the purpose of my previous post is simply to point out that: 1) There is no objective reason why they shouldn't/cannot/won't be together and, 2) If she did put them together, VK would still have its huge yaoi fanbase to fall back on when all the anti-yaoi fans leave.
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Kaorustalker wrote:
LoveSano wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide Kaorustalker wrote:
lol I have to admit, the thread topic made me go, "Huh?" But some of the responses had me laughing all the same.
Just to point out (in my typical long fashion):
1. As for the "That can't happen, they HATE each other!" arguments. Actually, it CAN happen BECAUSE they "hate" each other (Note: I don't think that Kaname and Zero seriously hate each other at all). Fact of the anime-world: if you have a guy and a girl in any anime that dislike each other, it's because they're too much alike and, if by the end they aren't 100% lovers, then they are the greatest of friends/rivals. They have a bond that no one else can understand or interfere with because of that tension between them - because, despite disliking each other, they absolutely KNOW each other on some instinctual level. Just because Kaname and Zero are two guys in the same predicament, doesn't mean it's impossible - most yaoi couples feature two people who completely hated each other from the very beginning, but then got to know each other, admire each other, and fell in love. The fact of the matter is, manga/anime characters only hate/dislike each other for a set amount of time, but always band together to defeat the greater evil. And through banding together, they get to respect and understand one another - even though they will swear that they still "hate" each other. In short, characters who "hate" you or just can't stand you, yet are always bickering with you are always potential love interests. So really, the whole "But, they HATE each other" argument actually just supports the possibility of them being together. ^^;
2. Just because Kaname and Zero love the same girl, doesn't mean they have to hate each other. Honestly, I don't think they hate each other because the other loves Yuuki; they're just rivals in love and are hostile towards each other because of it. The real reason why there's any hatred between them (though, it seems quite one-sided and misguided, since Kaname seems to just resent Zero while Zero seems to "hate" Kaname) is because Zero hates all Purebloods. That's as far as the hate goes - it's not specific to Kaname (though, Kaname is the one that Zero's hate is almost always geared towards); and overall, it's just a highly petty, blind prejudice towards people Zero doesn't even know. So, to me, what Zero feels towards Kaname is not even true hate - just standard dislike blown out of proportion by prejudice. On the other hand, Kaname's resentment towards Zero is born out of envy towards Zero's position with Yuuki; and later that same resentment is reaffirmed as Zero dares to point a gun at Yuuki while in his presence. Hell, in a way his reaction towards Zero could very well be a 'How dare you act as though you love her one minute, and then swear to kill her the next?' sort of thing - an outrage at Zero's hypocrisy and prejudice. Regardless of how you look at it, the fact of the matter is; where many of the fans on here are under some belief that these two are such sworn enemies that a common ground cannot be reached; in all honesty, both their feelings towards each other are outrageously simplistic, to the point where it can easily be resolved once Zero stops forcefully erecting a wall between himself and "The Purebloods". Compared to other stories in manga, where hatred actually runs deep and both sides are completely justified in their specific hate for one another; Zero's hate for Kaname and Kaname's resentment for Zero are completely laughable in its lack of severity. The only reason they even want each other dead is because it would simply solve all their emotional and mental stress - not because either really did something to deserve being killed over, but because it would just make it easier to get (and secure) Yuuki. So in the end, they don't even have any conviction towards each other - they don't feel deeply and passionately that the other should be killed; they just offhandedly feel that the other should vanish because they're in each other's way. In short, you can't even call this feeling between the two real hate - since it's ridiculously abstract and too flighty in nature.
3. In the entirety of the VK fanbase, VK has quite a lot of yaoi fans - way more than just 1%. It'd be more accurate to say that a little bit under half the VK fanbase are yaoi-fans. And no, I'm not just talking about the fanbase on here (in which age and lack of multiple perspective seem to play a significant point in this); I'm actually speaking of the entire fanbase - including the Japanese fans who generally lean more toward Kaname-love and generally are more inclined to yaoi pairing more than anyone else. In all honesty, it's more like Vampire Knight would lose 58% of its fanbase (and only if that Kaname/Zero ending becomes a random development of bad story-telling) while the already existing 42% of its yaoi fans will grow exponentially as the series gets classified under shounen-ai. What I don't really understand is why people are under the belief that, in the event that the story turns Kaname/Zero - Hino-sensei's spectacular plotting, great characters and character development, and general story of betrayal and villains in the vampire world; would just randomly disappear as soon as the story turns yaoi. Yeah, I know that a lot of people read VK because they only want to know who Yuuki is going to get with in the end, but I read VK because of the many intriguing devices that Hino-sensei puts to work. It's a good piece of literature - ten times better than Twilight (the piece of crap that it is) could ever hope to be. However, since I'm a shounen manga fan, it's probably natural that I consider the love story to come second to everything else in the work. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Kaname/Yuuki and will forever support them, but if by some random act of whimsy, Kaname/Zero end up together, I won't hate Vampire Knight as long as the story stays as fantastically interesting as it is now. If VK didn't have any interesting story aside from its (pretty basic) love story, then I would have completely ignored it like I have done with tons of other typical shoujo manga; but it's VK's intriguing story that makes me keep reading - just to find out more about the vampires and the purebloods and the mystery behind Kaname. The only shoujo I'll read are unorthodox shoujo - otherwise, I get the same story rehashed in cuter versions with just different characters (all who have the same archetypes seen in thousands of other existing works). So for me, VK's story matters much more than Kaname and Zero (clearly questionable) sexuality. Note: I'm not saying that VK is the most spectacular manga I have ever read - nor is it even one of the most (since I have read many that are much deeper, painful, and heartfelt than this - all without ever being based on a love story at all); but it is definitely one of the greatest shoujo manga I've ever read. Since VK is still fairly new though, Skip Beat! easily surpasses VK at the moment.
/Rant?
Er...Thats so gay! How can someone possibly think that zero will end up with kaname xDD Thats so sick o.O
Its kind of scary and ridicioulos xD
Also zero ISNT gay!!!!!!!! My gosh its so disgusting to think such things o.O I know same sex couples are not worse than normal sex couple and i dont have anything against them but ...PLease!!! Kaname can go and be gay xD But zero ISNT GAY! Just because of some people who have weird thoughts o.O
And I dont think hino is so sick to do someting like this and until now there is not even a LITTLE sign that zero and kaname end up tpgether xD
Its pretty clear that they both fight for yuuki and one if them will end up with her...So please o.O Dont be so ew o.OOOO
And I must repeat:
ZERO IS HETERO 100% :))))))))) Zero is a fictional character - nothing more than a pretty grouping of lines on a piece of paper. As such, Zero isn't anything that Hino-sensei doesn't make him - he has no concrete sexual preference because, duh he's never dated anyone, flirted with any girl/guy, or even acted like he wanted to be with anyone other than Yuuki. So, in fact, Zero is actually not gay or straight - he's just 'Yuuki'sexual (since Yuuki is the only person he's ever shown any sexual interest towards).
Hino-sensei wouldn't have to be "sick" to put them together at all - she may even personally like the pair as I'm finding that there are female mangaka who have secret yaoi pairs of their favorite characters in their own manga (KHR's mangaka, Akira-sensei, actually surprised me with that). Of course, these same mangaka will most likely never incorporate those pairs in the actual manga (since, like with Akira-sensei, to do so would be to screw with the whole demographic that is reading her manga) so there's nothing to worry about.
Note, though - Hino-sensei didn't have that feeding scene between Kaname and Zero for no reason (though, you probably won't see the significance in Zero drinking from Kaname or the serious yaoi fodder in that intense scene). Anywho, Kaname/Zero runs rampant in the VK fandom (mostly due to that scene that Hino-sensei put there just to fan the flames) - so it's not even half as much of a bogus idea as you may think.
Personally, I highly doubt that Hino-sensei will put them together - still, the purpose of my previous post is simply to point out that: 1) There is no objective reason why they shouldn't/cannot/won't be together and, 2) If she did put them together, VK would still have its huge yaoi fanbase to fall back on when all the anti-yaoi fans leave.
How can actually someone talk so bullshit...ZeroxKaname will never happen and you can hope as much as you want ^^
Zero LOVES yuuki and he would die for her and he would kill kaname if he would be "allowed" to.
But we both have different opinions so I respect yours ^^
We will wait and see what happens ^^ Though Im 100% sure that this isnt a yaoi anime...But equal I accept your opinion
peaceee
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LoveSano wrote:
Kaorustalker wrote:
LoveSano wrote:
Spoiler Alert! Click to show or hide Kaorustalker wrote:
lol I have to admit, the thread topic made me go, "Huh?" But some of the responses had me laughing all the same.
Just to point out (in my typical long fashion):
1. As for the "That can't happen, they HATE each other!" arguments. Actually, it CAN happen BECAUSE they "hate" each other (Note: I don't think that Kaname and Zero seriously hate each other at all). Fact of the anime-world: if you have a guy and a girl in any anime that dislike each other, it's because they're too much alike and, if by the end they aren't 100% lovers, then they are the greatest of friends/rivals. They have a bond that no one else can understand or interfere with because of that tension between them - because, despite disliking each other, they absolutely KNOW each other on some instinctual level. Just because Kaname and Zero are two guys in the same predicament, doesn't mean it's impossible - most yaoi couples feature two people who completely hated each other from the very beginning, but then got to know each other, admire each other, and fell in love. The fact of the matter is, manga/anime characters only hate/dislike each other for a set amount of time, but always band together to defeat the greater evil. And through banding together, they get to respect and understand one another - even though they will swear that they still "hate" each other. In short, characters who "hate" you or just can't stand you, yet are always bickering with you are always potential love interests. So really, the whole "But, they HATE each other" argument actually just supports the possibility of them being together. ^^;
2. Just because Kaname and Zero love the same girl, doesn't mean they have to hate each other. Honestly, I don't think they hate each other because the other loves Yuuki; they're just rivals in love and are hostile towards each other because of it. The real reason why there's any hatred between them (though, it seems quite one-sided and misguided, since Kaname seems to just resent Zero while Zero seems to "hate" Kaname) is because Zero hates all Purebloods. That's as far as the hate goes - it's not specific to Kaname (though, Kaname is the one that Zero's hate is almost always geared towards); and overall, it's just a highly petty, blind prejudice towards people Zero doesn't even know. So, to me, what Zero feels towards Kaname is not even true hate - just standard dislike blown out of proportion by prejudice. On the other hand, Kaname's resentment towards Zero is born out of envy towards Zero's position with Yuuki; and later that same resentment is reaffirmed as Zero dares to point a gun at Yuuki while in his presence. Hell, in a way his reaction towards Zero could very well be a 'How dare you act as though you love her one minute, and then swear to kill her the next?' sort of thing - an outrage at Zero's hypocrisy and prejudice. Regardless of how you look at it, the fact of the matter is; where many of the fans on here are under some belief that these two are such sworn enemies that a common ground cannot be reached; in all honesty, both their feelings towards each other are outrageously simplistic, to the point where it can easily be resolved once Zero stops forcefully erecting a wall between himself and "The Purebloods". Compared to other stories in manga, where hatred actually runs deep and both sides are completely justified in their specific hate for one another; Zero's hate for Kaname and Kaname's resentment for Zero are completely laughable in its lack of severity. The only reason they even want each other dead is because it would simply solve all their emotional and mental stress - not because either really did something to deserve being killed over, but because it would just make it easier to get (and secure) Yuuki. So in the end, they don't even have any conviction towards each other - they don't feel deeply and passionately that the other should be killed; they just offhandedly feel that the other should vanish because they're in each other's way. In short, you can't even call this feeling between the two real hate - since it's ridiculously abstract and too flighty in nature.
3. In the entirety of the VK fanbase, VK has quite a lot of yaoi fans - way more than just 1%. It'd be more accurate to say that a little bit under half the VK fanbase are yaoi-fans. And no, I'm not just talking about the fanbase on here (in which age and lack of multiple perspective seem to play a significant point in this); I'm actually speaking of the entire fanbase - including the Japanese fans who generally lean more toward Kaname-love and generally are more inclined to yaoi pairing more than anyone else. In all honesty, it's more like Vampire Knight would lose 58% of its fanbase (and only if that Kaname/Zero ending becomes a random development of bad story-telling) while the already existing 42% of its yaoi fans will grow exponentially as the series gets classified under shounen-ai. What I don't really understand is why people are under the belief that, in the event that the story turns Kaname/Zero - Hino-sensei's spectacular plotting, great characters and character development, and general story of betrayal and villains in the vampire world; would just randomly disappear as soon as the story turns yaoi. Yeah, I know that a lot of people read VK because they only want to know who Yuuki is going to get with in the end, but I read VK because of the many intriguing devices that Hino-sensei puts to work. It's a good piece of literature - ten times better than Twilight (the piece of crap that it is) could ever hope to be. However, since I'm a shounen manga fan, it's probably natural that I consider the love story to come second to everything else in the work. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Kaname/Yuuki and will forever support them, but if by some random act of whimsy, Kaname/Zero end up together, I won't hate Vampire Knight as long as the story stays as fantastically interesting as it is now. If VK didn't have any interesting story aside from its (pretty basic) love story, then I would have completely ignored it like I have done with tons of other typical shoujo manga; but it's VK's intriguing story that makes me keep reading - just to find out more about the vampires and the purebloods and the mystery behind Kaname. The only shoujo I'll read are unorthodox shoujo - otherwise, I get the same story rehashed in cuter versions with just different characters (all who have the same archetypes seen in thousands of other existing works). So for me, VK's story matters much more than Kaname and Zero (clearly questionable) sexuality. Note: I'm not saying that VK is the most spectacular manga I have ever read - nor is it even one of the most (since I have read many that are much deeper, painful, and heartfelt than this - all without ever being based on a love story at all); but it is definitely one of the greatest shoujo manga I've ever read. Since VK is still fairly new though, Skip Beat! easily surpasses VK at the moment.
/Rant?
Er...Thats so gay! How can someone possibly think that zero will end up with kaname xDD Thats so sick o.O
Its kind of scary and ridicioulos xD
Also zero ISNT gay!!!!!!!! My gosh its so disgusting to think such things o.O I know same sex couples are not worse than normal sex couple and i dont have anything against them but ...PLease!!! Kaname can go and be gay xD But zero ISNT GAY! Just because of some people who have weird thoughts o.O
And I dont think hino is so sick to do someting like this and until now there is not even a LITTLE sign that zero and kaname end up tpgether xD
Its pretty clear that they both fight for yuuki and one if them will end up with her...So please o.O Dont be so ew o.OOOO
And I must repeat:
ZERO IS HETERO 100% :))))))))) Zero is a fictional character - nothing more than a pretty grouping of lines on a piece of paper. As such, Zero isn't anything that Hino-sensei doesn't make him - he has no concrete sexual preference because, duh he's never dated anyone, flirted with any girl/guy, or even acted like he wanted to be with anyone other than Yuuki. So, in fact, Zero is actually not gay or straight - he's just 'Yuuki'sexual (since Yuuki is the only person he's ever shown any sexual interest towards).
Hino-sensei wouldn't have to be "sick" to put them together at all - she may even personally like the pair as I'm finding that there are female mangaka who have secret yaoi pairs of their favorite characters in their own manga (KHR's mangaka, Akira-sensei, actually surprised me with that). Of course, these same mangaka will most likely never incorporate those pairs in the actual manga (since, like with Akira-sensei, to do so would be to screw with the whole demographic that is reading her manga) so there's nothing to worry about.
Note, though - Hino-sensei didn't have that feeding scene between Kaname and Zero for no reason (though, you probably won't see the significance in Zero drinking from Kaname or the serious yaoi fodder in that intense scene). Anywho, Kaname/Zero runs rampant in the VK fandom (mostly due to that scene that Hino-sensei put there just to fan the flames) - so it's not even half as much of a bogus idea as you may think.
Personally, I highly doubt that Hino-sensei will put them together - still, the purpose of my previous post is simply to point out that: 1) There is no objective reason why they shouldn't/cannot/won't be together and, 2) If she did put them together, VK would still have its huge yaoi fanbase to fall back on when all the anti-yaoi fans leave.
How can actually someone talk so bullshit...ZeroxKaname will never happen and you can hope as much as you want ^^
Zero LOVES yuuki and he would die for her and he would kill kaname if he would be "allowed" to.
But we both have different opinions so I respect yours ^^
We will wait and see what happens ^^ Though Im 100% sure that this isnt a yaoi anime...But equal I accept your opinion
peaceee
Now I know you can read. I already said, "I highly doubt Hino-sensei will put them together" - so in fact, I'm not hoping they get together at all. Don't see how you could have possibly gotten anything else from what I said. I am simply pointing out the facts of the situation - a simple analysis, as you will. As the mangaka, Hino-sensei can write whatever she wants to and there is no objective reason why Kaname and Zero cannot get together (which are the ones I refuted in my original post).
Zero loves Yuuki, but I find it laughable to think he'd die for her considering how they are at the moment. In the future, when he sees her again (hopefully at the meeting between the Hunters Association and the Vampire Council), Yuuki won't have to keep running from him because he won't still want her dead.
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Yukki belongs to Kaname!
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Nah, that won't ever happen!!!  |
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