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Father’s Have a Right -not- to pay Child Support?
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Posted 11/7/08

Regulus133 wrote:


Teresa_Yuuki wrote:

so long. cant read entire thing. read partially.
my opinion- father HAS to pay child support. if the child is his flesh and blood then he needs to take responsibility, no matter what.
if u cant deal with the outcome, the OBVIOUS thing is use protection or dont have sex at all.


Wow, no matter what? Even in cases of sperm donation? Even when there is dishonesty on the woman's part? Read the whole post before you respond.


makix wrote:

Holy shit, have people not heard about this amazing invention called the "condom"?

Fathers having to pay child support for one-night stands and unintended babies have the responsibility to pay for the child since he was so stupid enough to trust the woman.


What about the woman's responsibility to the man to be honest about actions that would unjustly burden him financially? She deceived him and got money for it. If you ask me, she's the irresponsible one. What is he supposed to do to make sure she has taken the pill, anyway? Would watching her swallow it be enough to trust her? But wait, what if it were a fake pill!? Do you see why you can't just call him stupid for trusting her and conclude that you've resolved the case?

The third case is, as cardmage says, tricky. It is not fair that the woman just gets whatever she wants (the baby AND money) when she herself acted irresponsibly. (It may also be significant, depending on the circumstances, that she left him.) Now that abortions are legal, I'm afraid excuses like "But I don't want to do it!" and "My religion forbids it!" in situations like these can't stand up to social justice. If she has neither assurance that the man will stay with her nor the means to support the child herself, she should not be engaging in risky sexual behavior. If she ignores these requirements and do it anyway, perhaps she should be forced to either have an abortion or give the baby up for adoption. This method prevents the woman from abusing the system while still allowing men to be held responsible if it was reasonable for the woman to believe that they would stay together.

I understand that it sounds cruel to some people and that women can have a very strong desire to have the child, but I'm afraid sympathy can't trump justice here.



chill. no need to be so defensive. first of all, sperm donation - the father doesnt need to pay for child support, hence its sperm DONATION. my opinion above only concerns physical sex. 2nd of all - dishonesty on women's part? what? ok if the guy was ignorant enough to let her fool him, then it can only be blamed for his stupidity and bad luck.
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Posted 11/7/08 , edited 11/7/08

raja613 wrote:
I don't see it as sexist.....I see it as the woman making a choice......lol.....like i said before and many times these all could have been avoided if they would have simply just protected themselves from pregnancy..........The woman is equally responsible for being a dummy........hell both people have to live with the consequences, the man pays while the mother raises.....but seriously the second man deserved to pay if its a one night stand why even take a chance? And this should just be a lesson for eveyone to keep your genitals to yourself, thats all that can be done, sorry for the people who got taken advantage of but hey, I doubt there will be any legislative actions to correct this.



You don’t see it as sexist that women receive an exclusive right to bail out on the responsibility of their actions while men are denied that same right? That women get to make a decision for men rather the men like it or not? Seriously, I can’t understand how anyone could fail to see such blatant double standards and sexism as anything short of de jure prejudice.

Women have more rights than men; moreover, women are given a special seat of authority over men allowing them to impose upon the lives of men.

Either you’re lying and you -do- realize the obvious sexism, you’re blinded by zealotry, or you’re intellectually challenged.

Just because you don’t want to admit something doesn’t mean it’s not true.

As far as legislative actions to change this… probably not. It’ll probably be addressed in the supreme court and it’ll likely end in the man’s favor. The only other solution is to make abortion illegal which helps no one...well, except maybe the fetus?



Teresa_Yuuki wrote:

chill. no need to be so defensive. first of all, sperm donation - the father doesnt need to pay for child support, hence its sperm DONATION. my opinion above only concerns physical sex. 2nd of all - dishonesty on women's part? what? ok if the guy was ignorant enough to let her fool him, then it can only be blamed for his stupidity and bad luck.


So, when I was raped as a kid it was my fault for being stupid enough to trust a stranger and unlucky enough to know a pedophile? Those con artists who scheme and steal millions of dollars from people are always in the right because the other people were too stupid to realize that their identity was being stolen?

I read the entire conversation between you and the other user and I don’t think he was getting defensive or even aggressive. I think you’re being overly sensitive because you realize how clearly wrong you are. Then again, that's just my take...

The woman in that case was a con artist and should be thrown into jail just like Martha.
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Posted 11/7/08 , edited 11/7/08

Teresa_Yuuki wrote:

chill. no need to be so defensive. first of all, sperm donation - the father doesnt need to pay for child support, hence its sperm DONATION. my opinion above only concerns physical sex. 2nd of all - dishonesty on women's part? what? ok if the guy was ignorant enough to let her fool him, then it can only be blamed for his stupidity and bad luck.


I didn't mean to sound mean, but it's just... standard operation to read it all before responding. Also, you did say that it was the father's responsibility no matter what if the child is "his flesh and blood." In the case of sperm donation, the child is still his flesh and blood--but you have now established your position on that, so never mind.

As for the second point, I'll paste what I said to someone else:

"What about the woman's responsibility to the man to be honest about actions that would unjustly burden him financially? She deceived him and got money for it. If you ask me, she's the irresponsible one. What is he supposed to do to make sure she has taken the pill, anyway? Would watching her swallow it be enough to trust her? But wait, what if it were a fake pill!? Do you see why you can't just call him stupid for trusting her and conclude that you've resolved the case?"

I suppose you could take the stance that no one should ever have sex unless he's ready for a child, but that's too simplistic, especially when we do have birth control to prevent it. Still, the important point is that, in this situation, there was deliberate deception, and she knew there was a chance of getting pregnant. The fact that the man impregnated her is overshadowed by this misconduct. It should be solely her responsibility now. If she can't handle it, it should be given up for adoption.

Of course, I'm not advocating legislation to render dishonesty illegal. The reasons her lie is important here are: 1.) it now has a direct, detrimental financial impact on someone else; 2.) the child would not have been born if she had been honest.
Posted 11/7/08
Well if you knock up a women and then leave like in my case with my so called fucking father he should have to pay for it Literally.
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Posted 11/7/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


raja613 wrote:
I don't see it as sexist.....I see it as the woman making a choice......lol.....like i said before and many times these all could have been avoided if they would have simply just protected themselves from pregnancy..........The woman is equally responsible for being a dummy........hell both people have to live with the consequences, the man pays while the mother raises.....but seriously the second man deserved to pay if its a one night stand why even take a chance? And this should just be a lesson for eveyone to keep your genitals to yourself, thats all that can be done, sorry for the people who got taken advantage of but hey, I doubt there will be any legislative actions to correct this.



You don’t see it as sexist that women receive an exclusive right to bail out on the responsibility of their actions while men are denied that same right? That women get to make a decision for men rather the men like it or not? Seriously, I can’t understand how anyone could fail to see such blatant double standards and sexism as anything short of de jure prejudice.

Women have more rights than men; moreover, women are given a special seat of authority over men allowing them to impose upon the lives of men.

Either you’re lying and you -do- realize the obvious sexism, you’re blinded by zealotry, or you’re intellectually challenged.

Just because you don’t want to admit something doesn’t mean it’s not true.

As far as legislative actions to change this… probably not. It’ll probably be addressed in the supreme court and it’ll likely end in the man’s favor. The only other solution is to make abortion illegal which helps no one...well, except maybe the fetus?



Teresa_Yuuki wrote:

chill. no need to be so defensive. first of all, sperm donation - the father doesnt need to pay for child support, hence its sperm DONATION. my opinion above only concerns physical sex. 2nd of all - dishonesty on women's part? what? ok if the guy was ignorant enough to let her fool him, then it can only be blamed for his stupidity and bad luck.


So, when I was raped as a kid it was my fault for being stupid enough to trust a stranger and unlucky enough to know a pedophile? Those con artists who scheme and steal millions of dollars from people are always in the right because the other people were too stupid to realize that their identity was being stolen?

I read the entire conversation between you and the other user and I don’t think he was getting defensive or even aggressive. I think you’re being overly sensitive because you realize how clearly wrong you are. Then again, that's just my take...

The woman in that case was a con artist and should be thrown into jail just like Martha.


it was a misinterpretation on his part and my lack of a detailed explanation behind my reasoning on my part. i still believe in what i said in my first post, there are some gray areas indeed, which can lead to arguments like this.
if u were raped, then undoubtedly u should not have to pay for child support. being taken advantage and taking advantage is totally differently.
what i meant was that if a guy had physical sex (not sperm donation) with a girl and out comes a baby then he must take responsibility for it.
"ok if the guy was ignorant enough to let her fool him, then it can only be blamed for his stupidity and bad luck." - regarding relationship -wise. not..rape-wise?
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Posted 11/7/08
father's are the head of the family and so they are obliged to support there children..

d*mn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted 11/9/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


raja613 wrote:
I don't see it as sexist.....I see it as the woman making a choice......lol.....like i said before and many times these all could have been avoided if they would have simply just protected themselves from pregnancy..........The woman is equally responsible for being a dummy........hell both people have to live with the consequences, the man pays while the mother raises.....but seriously the second man deserved to pay if its a one night stand why even take a chance? And this should just be a lesson for eveyone to keep your genitals to yourself, thats all that can be done, sorry for the people who got taken advantage of but hey, I doubt there will be any legislative actions to correct this.



You don’t see it as sexist that women receive an exclusive right to bail out on the responsibility of their actions while men are denied that same right? That women get to make a decision for men rather the men like it or not? Seriously, I can’t understand how anyone could fail to see such blatant double standards and sexism as anything short of de jure prejudice.

Women have more rights than men; moreover, women are given a special seat of authority over men allowing them to impose upon the lives of men.

Either you’re lying and you -do- realize the obvious sexism, you’re blinded by zealotry, or you’re intellectually challenged.

Just because you don’t want to admit something doesn’t mean it’s not true.

As far as legislative actions to change this… probably not. It’ll probably be addressed in the supreme court and it’ll likely end in the man’s favor. The only other solution is to make abortion illegal which helps no one...well, except maybe the fetus?



Teresa_Yuuki wrote:

chill. no need to be so defensive. first of all, sperm donation - the father doesnt need to pay for child support, hence its sperm DONATION. my opinion above only concerns physical sex. 2nd of all - dishonesty on women's part? what? ok if the guy was ignorant enough to let her fool him, then it can only be blamed for his stupidity and bad luck.


So, when I was raped as a kid it was my fault for being stupid enough to trust a stranger and unlucky enough to know a pedophile? Those con artists who scheme and steal millions of dollars from people are always in the right because the other people were too stupid to realize that their identity was being stolen?

I read the entire conversation between you and the other user and I don’t think he was getting defensive or even aggressive. I think you’re being overly sensitive because you realize how clearly wrong you are. Then again, that's just my take...

The woman in that case was a con artist and should be thrown into jail just like Martha.


My gosh, man I'm by far from intellectually challenged I have no clue where you get this conspiracy of women being over men, and if so thers nothing to be done about it except take responsibility for your actions, whether it be abortion, paying for child support, or just not having sex with someone you've only known for 2 hours..........I'm not going to admit anything because frankly, I just don't know what the hell you are talking about........men are only denied the right to get rid of the baby and thats it. But i've spoke on rememdies for that ( If the woman doesn't tell the man she is keeping the baby or pregnant, she should not be allowed to collect).....but as far as imposing on the rights of men, how are women doing that?
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Posted 11/9/08

raja613 wrote:

My gosh, man I'm by far from intellectually challenged I have no clue where you get this conspiracy of women being over men, and if so thers nothing to be done about it except take responsibility for your actions, whether it be abortion, paying for child support, or just not having sex with someone you've only known for 2 hours..........I'm not going to admit anything because frankly, I just don't know what the hell you are talking about........men are only denied the right to get rid of the baby and thats it. But i've spoke on rememdies for that ( If the woman doesn't tell the man she is keeping the baby or pregnant, she should not be allowed to collect).....but as far as imposing on the rights of men, how are women doing that?


Well, I don’t really think you’re intellectually challenged. My observation is that adamancy is preventing you from properly analyzing the situation logically and honestly.

As far as the, “there’s nothing to be done,” comment…that feels a lot like seeing a problem but deciding not to fix it based on a desperate and sadly conservative clutch on dated values that have proven to be flawed.

The woman shouldn’t be able to collect if she doesn’t tell the man she’s keeping the child, but otherwise she should? Okay, that’s an interesting approach. I think there are some errors in this approach.

1) This is not applicable to one night stands.
2) My father was arrested shortly after my mother got pregnant. He was on a road trip so he was arrested out of state and we weren’t able to find him until I was ten years old.
3) The father can lie and say that he wasn’t told..
4) The woman is still receiving an exclusive right.
5) She still has authority over the man.
6) Men are still not receiving any standing on abortion cases making it impossible to consider unique situations.

Just some things to consider. Naturally, there is no perfect solution to this issue but perhaps there is a way to get around many if not most of this obstacles? Perhaps the father should be given the opportunity to sign away his parental rights during the pregnancy?


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25 / F / Trinidad and Tobago
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Posted 11/9/08
pay the frigging money
once you made that decision to have sex with a woman, unprotected or not
you've made the unspoken choice of taking a chance with the occurrence of pregnancy.
a child is a responsibility.
the male automatically becomes responsible for the well-being of the child along with the mother.

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Posted 11/9/08
Yes, there are times when it's basically ridiculous for men to pay child support but, if they change the law for those guys then I bet you anything there are going to be guys that get away with not having to pay child support because they found a whole in the system.

See my father divorced my mom right before I was born and left for china and since he's out of the U.S. they cant do anything about it, so my mom was left with a 14yr old daughter, 7yr old son, and a just born baby, so throughout all these years she's raised three kids without any child support. Yet when I turn 18 and am of legal age and he comes back from china to live in the U.S. like he told me he was he'll be a free man... now, lol, wtf?
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Posted 11/9/08 , edited 11/9/08


Well true my attitude towards the topic is one of " We can't do much about it" But I think the laws are this way simply because its easier for men to "forfeit" their rights of being a parent by just simply dissappearing. I will agree ( after eating stir fry) that yes the law is built in the woman's favor because, rarely do you have men who willingly support their children! My friend has 6 children by the same man in FL, ( why they had that many who knows) he stayed with her for 7 years and finally lost his job, he moved to GA for a job ( and another woman) and left her here with the children......She trys to file for child support but under GA law if you have six children you aren't required to pay child support.....and since he is now a resident of GA ( when he was there for a job) requirement of child support in FL is no longer applicable.

I think that to avoid this people have to realize that either way someone has to take responsibility ( mother raises, while the father pays) So yes the woman, does have a upper hand in these cases, but only because it is easier for men to just not help or do anything other than pay child support.......
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Posted 11/9/08 , edited 11/9/08
This thread is starting a gender war. All the men (alright most) are on one side and all the women are on the other. Ah well...


So you think the men shouldn't need to pay in the first 2 cases? In case 2 the woman clearly didn't tell the man about the baby until years after he or she was born. How about if the woman ran into financial trouble before the baby reached 7? Just to clarify since you mentioned the 7 years thing earlier. As for the issue on abortion... did you read what I wrote earlier (my second post in this topic)? Its not about the mother's right to abortion but the child's right to live and since the child can't decide on his or her own, both parents must make a joint decision before the abortion takes place.

All in all what you said so far would make your stand pretty much the same as mine... I think what SeraphAlford is trying to say is that women seem to have more legal power in this case. I agree actually. The law actually helps women, especially when it comes to sex and sexually related issues like pregnancy. In Singapore its legally impossible for a woman to rape a man in fact due to the very specific definition of rape. The reason they are given more power is that they are seen as more vulnerable though. That makes talking gender inequality here rather tricky though.



Did you actually read the cases? How about the first case? You still think the man should "pay the frigging money"? While I agree that in many cases the man should just pay up these specific cases make you rethink the legal implications of the current child support laws. I'm not saying we should do away with it. I'm saying that there should be modifications to protect clearly innocent parties.


So its ok for women to abuse the law and not ok for men to do so... I see...

And I'm sorry about what your father did but that's a case of abusing the law, ie., finding loopholes that work to your advantage. The women in the first two cases are also clearly abusing the law and causing a lot of pain and grief to these men (though case 3 is tricky). Don't you think these men, or men like them, should be protected too?
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Posted 11/9/08 , edited 11/9/08


well yes, i read them. i still stand by my statement.
telling the mother of a child you don't want, to abort is a serious issue.
abortion may not be easy at all for alot of people.
then again, the father taking that route is simply getting rid of his self-inflicted responsibility.
how can u foolishly act in one way then refuse to pay the consequences by playing with an innocent human life?

its sad.
not accounting for a few moments of pleasure.

so yes.
pay the friggin money.
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Posted 11/9/08 , edited 11/9/08


Case 1. Meaning the sperm donation case. He did not have sex with the woman. Still the child is a responsibility. And as the biological father he is asked to take it. But is it right to ask him to do so? That's the point here. While I see that you would think that in the other two cases the man should be responsible but how about case 1? Don't you think the men should be protected in this case especially?

And I'll argue case 2 with you for the sake of it though I don't think your view will change. The woman lied. She deceived the man and never looked for him again until she needed the money. She clearly didn't think the man deserved rights to the child or she would look for him earlier. She then comes along and destroys his life. And its not just his life here. His children and his wife are all affected by this woman coming out from nowhere taking advantage of a lie she told. So that child born from her lie and the woman who told the lie are important but all the children and the woman the man actually feels and is responsible for aren't?

Abortion is just case 3. In that case I agree the man can't shirk his responsibility just because he told the woman to get an abortion. The circumstances becomes very important, but mostly I'd say the man pays, so I don't have a direct argument with you here.
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Posted 11/9/08 , edited 11/9/08


I'm not saying it's okay for women to abuse the law, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I personally think all of these situations are horrible. In the first case, if the guy was going to donate sperm legally he should have gotten a release & no parental rights. Looking at the second case intelligently even if she said she was on the pill he should have used a condom if it was a one night stand and he didn't know her. When I read the third case even if he said to abort the baby, abortion shouldn't be used as a form of birth control, therefore it's both parties fault.

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