I'm not ignorant of what Israel does, I just define it differently and view the facts. Israel didn't massacre 1400 Palestinians. They were defending themselves from terrorists who repeatedly refused to stop firing rockets into cities and towns. Any country that cared about it's citizens would have taken action. First Israel told them to stop, and when they didn't they had to do what they felt was best and rational. Israel didn't massacre anyone, they went in to destroy terrorists, who in turn resulted in a few hundred civilian deaths. This wouldn't have happened if Hamas wasn't so bent on terror and genocide.

What does Hamas do for Palestinians? I know that they indoctrinate children with hate, suppress religious freedom, preform suicide bombings, take foreign aid money and spend it on their little militia. They converted ambulances given to help others into military vehicles. They stole UN aid and wrecked a UN aid warehouse so that they could be the ones giving it out and not the UN who paid for it and was distributing it. Hamas blatantly says that they want no peace, but the destruction of the Jews and the state of Israel. They force the public schools to educate children by saying Israel is not a country, but rather a nation run by Jewish thugs who kill Palestinians and are discriminatory towards Muslims. They don't mention that Israel has a large and peaceful Muslim minority that live along side Jewish Israelis. They don't talk about how Israel gives much aid to Palestinians (or about how America does for that matter). They say that Jews walked in from Europe and killed Arabs living in the British Mandate, when in reality it was Brittan who told the Jews to go there and the United Nations who set up the nations of Jordan and Israel. Jordan was for the Arabs (because that area was majority Arab) and Israel was for the Jews (because that area was mostly Jewish). Hamas lies to their own people, they use their children as human shields. They store weapons in schools and mosques. They clamor to the international community about how bad Israel is while they exalt themselves as "freedom fighters." The truth is that Israel gave sovereignty to Gaza. They forced (and by forced, I mean removed all Jews from their homes with their own military) all the Jews out of Gaza and let them hold elections so they can make the first steps into becoming a peaceful nation for Palestinians in their "native" land. Instead, in those elections Hamas slaughtered Fatah party members and Fatah party supporters. There was a war in Gaza led my Hamas with hateful rhetoric against Israel and against Fatah (the more moderate party). Many homes and lives were lost due to Hamas, and the only part Israel played in any of it was allowing them the freedom to do that. Israel is seeking a two state solution. Hamas is seeking a single state solution brought about through brainwashing children into Jihad and Jewish genocide. They lie, they kill, the send out propaganda. They clamor to the international community and blame Israel for their poverty and all their problems. When in reality those problems are due to themselves. When Israel was fighting with the terrorists in Gaza, Israel opened their borders to allow the injured innocents to enter Israel and receive quality medical treatment in Israeli hospitals. Hamas prevented them from receiving medical attention and from allowing them into Israel for treatment. Hamas teaches hate, Hamas spreads lies about Israel, Hamas oppresses their own people and manipulates many into seeing them as freedom fighters against the almighty satanic Israel who is filled with wicked Jews bent out to slaughter the innocents in Gaza. I know what is going on, but I see that Hamas and the Palestinians are at the largest fault. I no longer support Israel's occupation of the West Bank, I think they should leave. I don't support all the tactics used in the assault against terrorism in Gaza. I don't support all of Natenyahu's policies. But I do support Israel's right to self defense, I do support their right to exist. And I accept the fact that Palestinian governments are very manipulative, terroristic, and uncompromisable. Israel as done wrong, but the Palestinians have been far worse and need to be liberated from the lies that Hamas spews at them, to be liberated from terrorism and a government that uses them to achieve their goals of genocide. I say all this with utmost respect. My heart goes out to the impoverished Palestinians, but it isn't Israel's fault they are that way. I want to help them and to see peace be reached, but that can't happen when Hamas refuses this.

Actually, the earliest historical documentations of Zionism began as a Protestant Christian movement. Just to give a brief history lesson, the Jews were living in dispersal. They had no home of their own so they started illegally immigrating into other nations where they could take up residence. The UK, Germany, and all of Europe were particularly hard hit by this. It caused economic problems, much like the illegal immigration of Mexicans to America. Essentially, these Jews came from rough and humble backgrounds. They were hard workers and took jobs from the less hardened laborers of these nations. Have you ever been to British Columbia or East Germany? In Canada illegal immigration from China is really bad. I’m not sure why, but it is, and many people resent the Chinese because of it. In Germany immigrants are coming from India, and a form of prejudice has formed because of that as well.

Anti-Semitism in Europe began in much the same way, augmented by Christianity which is already hyper critical of Jews and Judaism. Remember, the bible says that the Jews rebuked Christ and murdered the Christian savior in cold blood. While the Old Testament is favorable of the Jews, Jesus’ attention moved from Hebrews to Greeks and other gentiles. Because of this many Christians are prejudiced against the Jews in much the same way most Muslim communities are.

This was even worse during the sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, and early nineteen hundreds. So, the idea was that the Jews were a burden on superior peoples and nations. The Protestant Christians therefore theorized that a good solution to the problem was to give the Jews a homeland of their own.

In the late eighteen hundreds the Jews began to adopt this for themselves, but had no interest in Palestine. They were mostly ignorant and didn’t truly know anything about their own culture, or even that Israel was their homeland. Palestine did not come up as an option until they were invited by allied forces to take refuge from the Nazi. Prior to World War II the Jewish presence in Palestine was utterly negligible, the Zionists in that area even fewer.

Zionism under the Jewish form had two goals. To give the Jews a place of refuge from discrimination, and to create a society free of European racism. They considered islands, Africa, South America, and even a part of Australia long before the idea to immigrate to Palestine ever came around.

Zionism, much like Islamic Jihad, has simply been intentionally misconstrued by the media. It’s demonized, but in all actuality there’s nothing at all controversial about the true Zionist ideology except its origin of steep Protestant anti-Semitism.

As far as Israel’s mistreatment of Palestine, they provide over 70% of the electricity in Palestine. They provide nearly as much medical care, or did before Hamas started preventing the transfer of patients into Israeli hospitals. They’re also one of the major contributors to humanitarian aid to Palestine. As a concession to peace they even evacuated Gaza of its entire Jewish presence. They promised to evacuate Westbank (all except East Jerusalem,) if the Palestinians signed a peace treaty and acknowledged Israel. The PLO refused the offer.

Israel does more for Palestinians than almost any other nation. It’s simply impossible to create peace with a people who don’t want peace. The Palestinian authorities want war, and they get it. Just not in the form they’d prefer.

I agree. That's racist and religiously intolerant as well as flatly ignorant. There’re plenty of Arab and Muslim, even Palestinian supporters of Israel who agree that the Palestinian authorities are the ones who refuse to accept peace and make war inexorable. You cannot generalize. I do, however, think that is an accurate portrayal of the popular opinion within the Arab/Muslim world during the UN’s original two state plan. At least, that’s according to the officials of the Arab League and the news papers from that time period. But, I guess those aren’t exactly democratic nations and what the governments and media portray as popular opinion isn’t always entirely congruent with what the people really want. Enter, Iranian elections.

The last conflict pretty much makes it clear how Israel deals with Palestinians. For many months before the attacks started, Israel was turning Gaza into a concentration camp:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/gaza-reduced-bare-survival-20081205
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/israel-cuts-electricity-and-food-supplies-gaza-20080121

And this plus the basic treatment they give for Palestinians in general:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/israeloccupied-palestinian-territories/report-2008

You know, the torture, bulldozing their homes, shooting their kids, humiliating them at checkpoints, etc. This stuff is supposed to be common knowledge for anyone who is not completely ignorant of this conflict. Israel doesn't seem to want to follow the Geneva Convention or International Law, and they never listen to the UN, so already why would you support this kind of a country?

Don't the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from this? Now I don't agree with firing missiles into Israel, but I really can't imagine why anyone would be surprised. It would have been really impressive if they followed Gandhi's example, but people were dying of illnesses because Israel wouldn't let them get help and some were even dying of malnutrition everyday. People tend to react badly to that kind of treatment. But the Palestinians were patient, and they endured this horrifying treatment for many months. Then Israel triggered the conflict by ending the cease-fire:

http://jta.org/news/article/2009/05/28/1005478/amnesty-international-report-blames-israel

The the conflict starts, and good old law-abiding Israel is careful not to commit any war crimes, right? I mean just because it purposefully targeted civilians in almost every conflict it ever had with the Palestinians or Lebanon doesn't mean they'll do it now. And unsurprisingly, they did and went a step further and used illegal and cruel weapons on children and burned them alive.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/video-and-audio/video-human-rights-implications-israelgaza-conflict-20090114

During this conflict, Israel bombed indiscriminately, killing everything in site. They bombed UN shelters, schools, hospitals, no where was safe. They told a big family to go into a house, and later bombed the house. Israel soldiers shot and murdered children on the street, they came in with bulldozers and destroyed hundreds of homes for no good reason. They said they were fighting Hamas, but they rarely ever directly hit Hamas militants, they either purposefully aim for civilians or have a very inefficient army that can't distinguish between kids and terrorists. But when you look back at what Israel has done in the past, it's nothing new. Like what they did in Lebanon, they pretty much only bombed civilians, apartments, even ambulances filled with patients. I think it's pretty obvious that they're not actually after Hamas, they didn't even try to put a dent into Hamas' power, they stopped suddenly without even getting any real results (except for 1400 dead). And it was right before Obama's inauguration, what a coincidence. Israel just seems to go in and try to do maximum damage, then leave, use the "human shields" excuse (which doesn't even excuse anything according to international law, even if these claims had any meaning), and it's all to put people in their place.

Massacring that many people, bulldozing and destroying their homes, shooting their children on the street, all after they inflicted a humanitarian crisis that turned Gaza into a concentration camp and them breaking the ceasefire. And then just leaving and making it obvious that their goal to "stop Hamas" was a lie, and trying to pretend to be the victim after all that is a new low for Israel. The state of Israel is especially despicable because it tries to cover up it's crimes or make sad excuses for everything, or the worst is trying to play the victim after committing acts truly comparable with what the Nazis did. This last conflict alone is good enough reason to be upset with Israel, but like the British MP explained, this despicable behavior began with the great injustice committed by Zionists in 1948. And from then on it was just a series of human rights violations, ignoring the UN, the Geneva Convention and all international law. They treat them like dirt, less than human, refuse to try to solve the conflict and make it worse by continuing illegal settlements which shouldn't even be there in the first place, but Israel seems to think it's above the law.

Now the regular response I seem to get is "but Hamas and the Palestinians do this...." Hamas and the Palestinians made the dreadful mistake of not not following Gandhi's example, I know. The Palestinian terrorists are wrong, they're evil, I don't agree with anything they've done, but their actions are 100% understandable, and Israel cannot justify all the horror it has inflicted on Palestinians over the years. Remember, in 1948 the Palestinians were screwed over by Zionists on a huge scale, they massacred and ethnically cleansed them. One million Palestinians literally driven out of their homes and were never allowed to return, and they still live in refugee camps, now they're around 4.5 million people. That's a HUGE injustice, they had every right to be upset and protest the creation of Israel, I would not want Israel to have been created on such a shameful basis, and right after the Holocaust? It was just in very bad taste. And Palestinians consider Palestine sacred to them and Islam, obviously they'd not want Israel to be there. You shouldn't act so surprised that they'd be upset. And then there's the matter of the Arab League, which is a useless group of countries that no matter how angry their citizens may have gotten, they were never going to do anything about Israel and just made things worse. But you should separate between the Palestinians and the Arab League, I doubt the Palestinians got much of a say in anything that was happening.

Then in 1967, Israel made everything worse by illegally occupying land and starting settlements. This was a huge violation of international law and then the UN created the obvious 2-state solution, Israel voted no in the general assembly meeting of the UN (along with the US, so it was Israel and the US disagreeing with literally every other country on the planet), and continued with the illegal settlements. Again, already I don't see how anyone could find Israel's actions acceptable. From then on, Palestinians under the occupation were treated like dirt. And unsurprisingly, they didn't take the Gandhi approach (believe me, very few people would not be fighting back the oppression especially after all Israel has already done to the Palestinians). Look at the IRA fighting the British oppression, they are terrorists and I think they are wrong, but no one should be surprised with that reaction after treating people like dirt. But Palestinian's situation was much more dire than the Irish or Gandhi's because the British weren't an occupying force. So you should expect that with that much more oppression and desperation, more desperate acts should follow.



Suicide bombings, sending missiles, and brainwashing kids is wrong. But if any group of people were put in a situation crazy enough, they would eventually do things just as crazy. Norman Finkelstien explained how he wasn't allowed to just say anything slightly positive about Germans, Jews taught their kids Germans were evil monsters, it's wrong, but what do you expect? People always expect too much from Palestinians, if you torture someone for long enough they'll eventually go crazy. What do you think the Palestinians should have done since 1948 to now? Just sit and accept what was happening to them? How desperate are Israelis? The ones that border with Gaza are constantly afraid one of Hamas's homemade mentos and diet coke rockets will crash through their window and ruin their potato salad? They do pose a serious threat, but Israel is powerful and developed country and not in concentration camp conditions. Palestinians are somehow expected to create a nice society in horrific conditions. Since 2000 there's been around 1000 Israelis killed because of this conflict, and 5500 + the last 1400 Palestinians dead. The majority being civilians. There needs to be a sense of proportionality here, people talk about both sides like they're both in the same circumstances.

And when it comes to solving the problem, most of the blame goes to Israel. They've refused the UN 2-state plan for years, and insisted on increasing settlements. Palestinian leaders have refused the plan in the past as well. But today Israel continues the refusal to solve the problem, even though Hamas is ready:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/hamas-on-peace-and-international-law/

Palestinian leadership and the whole world are ready to solve this problem. People say Hamas won't recognize Israel and just wants to kill all the Jews, well no that's not true. They want the 2-state plan to happen. Now we're all waiting on Israel. This is why there are so many people against Israel, that's why so many Jews are also against it, like Norman Finkelstien and that British MP. If I was Jewish I can see how I would especially be against Israel's actions because I wouldn't want to be represented by such an oppressive country. The British MP guy really summed everything up well, but it seems as though people are too ignorant to understand what he's talking about.

And btw, the real reason why I'm so interested in this topic is my bf for 2 years is Palestinian and I have lots of Palestinian friends who always preach to me whenever there's a conflict going on there.

that site is completely atrocious , look at how many anti-Arab/Islamic remarks make by the site. It doesnt serve us with good infos but only to fuel us with anger, thats how terrorism came about. I would encouraged another site BUT with well written infomation.

Actually, the website was full of factually correct content. And so far I’ve only really seen one racist comment. The site is certainly tactless, but that doesn’t mean the claims it makes are automatically incorrect. The history seems pretty accurate, for example, even if the comment about Arabs and Muslims generalizes.

Some of the information can be misleading. For example, they cite Mark Twain’s book, “Innocence Abroad,” which was of course a very real travel documentary. Mark Twain did in fact complain that there weren’t many people or cities or things to see. However, this was written in the nineteenth century. It wasn’t until the twentieth century that most of Palestine’s denizens, Jew or Arab, inhabited the territory; moreover, Mark Twain was referencing certain areas within Palestine at the time of that book. He didn’t, for example, complain about a lack of people when he got to Jerusalem.



This is also true. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's plagiarized. That's a pretty recycled line, like most of the content on that website. So, maybe plagiarism is a harsh word. It’s not entirely correct, I suppose, but judging on the character of the rest of the site I’d say we might as well consider it stolen content.


In conclusion, the website does have factual information. But it’s also neglecting to mention key facts, and is intentionally deceitful. It’s ignorant and hate inciting, but to discredit it entirely would be foolhardy because much of the content is in fact congruent with the truth.

When a website purpousely neglects information then it isnt credible it is giving you a one sided bias in favor of Israel while ignoring their crimes to make them look away. Thats why I urge everyone to stay away from extreme websites such as that one it brings hate and racism more then knowledge.

I'll agree that the website is somewhat anti Islamic and has an anti Arab sentiment, but these don't represent my views or my views towards Palestinians. However, the historical stuff and the things published are accurate and factual. It shows the extreme hate from the Arab nations and Palestinian governments. It may have very strongly worded language, but the content is true. To be honest it was the only website I could find amid all the hateful ones towards Israel. Maybe I rely on google too much

lol it's ok, but it's just most of the stuff on it is not really important. It spends alot of time on the "myth of the Palestinians" thing, so even if it's all factual it doesn't matter.

And they said bad things about Noam Chomsky!!!!!! That's unforgivable

How does it not matter if it's factual? If it's factual then it's the truth, and if it's the truth we should abide by that instead of appealing to Palestinian governments and the propaganda they spread. Israel has every right to exist, they want peace, even their very right-wing prime minister has changed and now supports a two state solution. The problem is that Gaza (the militant state) wants to destroy Israel and all the Jews living there. Gaza is a propagandized nation and all it teaches is hate towards Israel and to be Jihadist for the motherland (Palestine). They brainwash them as children, saying that Israel is the land of Muslims and that Jews have no right to it, they teach them that Jews are evil people and that Israel is nothing but a thug nation that has temporary control of the land of Islam until the Gazans murder them all. This isn't real Islam, and this is nothing but hate. Israel want's peace, they support a two state solution. They have been working towards it by giving sovereignty to Gaza and the West Bank. There are no Jews in Gaza, and they were forcefully removed against their will from their homes and friends in Gaza. The rights of Israelis were violated in order to bring a 100% Palestinian occupied nation that was given the sovereignty to elect their own government. The truth is that Hamas is not the result of oppression, Hamas is the oppression and they are the largest detriment to peace. What solution does Hamas offer? Only complete genocide and murder of the Jews.c They are terrorists and cowards, they are not freedom fighters. I love the Palestinian people, even those who support hamas and believe a hateful lie. The poverty sickens me. But their poverty is the direct result of hateful rhetoric, brainwashing, and government militants that literally calls their citizens to attack Jews and "drive them into the sea" so that Israel can be dominated by Hamas. They have always hated Israel, and at every single attempt for peace they refuse to comply and they only break treaties and attack innocent civilians. Israel is not led by some kind of Zionist conspiracy that rules all the governments of the world. They make outlandish claims, saying that Israel runs the US, Europe, and all the media outlets. This isn't true, but they spew it anyway because they want people to believe that Jews are evil people that are bent on conquest and the destruction of Arabs. Governments condemn Israel because they don't want to stand up for what is right. If you stand up for Israel, immediately you loose political favor with the oil rich Middle Eastern nations that hate Israel. They appeal to terrorism like they did with Hitler before he went and started the Holocaust and invaded France, England, and killed many in World War II. It's called soft politics, taking the easy road. It's so much easier to believe the lies of Hamas and condemn Israel than it is to stand up for what is truly right and take condemnation from the Arab league and the oil rich nations. It's all about politics and foreign relations. Weak politics lead to wars and genocide, history has proven this.

Because the "claims" to the land they always talk about don't matter. It doesn't matter who God gave it to or who was there 2000 years ago.

And what nations would those be?

I'd like to again point out the letter written by the leader of Hamas to Obama:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/hamas-on-peace-and-international-law/

There's no "let's drive them into the sea" or antisemitism whatsoever. They want the 2-state plan to happen, in accordance with international law. Whatever views certain Palestinians may have on Israel and Jews or what the brainwashing might be going on is not reason enough to 100% condemn Hamas and use it as an excuse to not make any progress and oppress Palestinians more.

In fact, Israelis could have been brainwashing their kids as well. I bet their are many who tell their kids the Arabs are evil and that the Jewish people are better than everyone else. They had kids sign the bombs that were sent into Lebanon and murdered Lebanese kids there, so they may be teaching their kids hate and intolerance as well

Look:


omg we have a good excuse to condemn all Israelis now right? No, the brainwashing and hateful teachings of some people do not justify anything Israel has done. You can blame and attack Hamas for whatever bad things the Palestinians may have done, but in the end Hamas supports the 2-state plan and Israel doesn't. And Israel has caused far worse terrorism than Hamas has.

That's bullshit and you know it. We've already been over this. What they say and English and what they say in Arabic are two different things. What they say in English also contradicts with what they do. What they say in Arabic, however, coincides with their actions. Hamas doesn’t want a two state plan. It wants to drive Israel out. .

This idea you've invented that they're moving away from their extreme roots is silly. Those quotes I showed you from the Damascus mosque are not old. They were from 2008, and came straight from Khaled. He's the chairman, the virtual dictator of Hamas. He's the founder of Hamas. Then there's the charters which they refuse to amend.

I now have these saved in a word document, thanks to this. Here you go! Please read them this time.

Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realization of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim). -From the Hamas Charter.

“Reconciliation with Jews is crime,” -Ahmed Yassin, co-founded/ex-leader of Hamas.

“[Israel,] must disappear off the map.” -Ahmed Yassin

“The "calmness" is not a complete halt of the fire; it's a temporary emergency base for rest…” Khaled Marshal in an interview with Al-Arabbiya TV


“The majority of Palestinian prisoners are…from the Palestinian Parliament. They are civilians and political leaders, not military…” Khaled Marshal, Chairman of Hamas in a Sky News interview.

“The Palestinian nation will continue [….]despite all pressure[…] and will not under any circumstances stop its jihad.” -Khaled Mashal, Chairman of Hamas.

“Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day.” -Khaled Mashal, Chairman of Hamas.

“The Nation of Islam will sit at the Throne of the world and the west will be full of remorse --when it is too late.” -Khaled Mashal at a mosque in Damascus.

“They do not understand the Arab or Muslim mentality, which rejects the foreigner.”-Khaled Mashal at a mosque in Damascus.

Dr. Isma'il al-Raduan:
"When the Shahid meets his Maker, all his sins are forgiven from the first gush of blood, and he is exempted from the torments of the grave. He sees his place in Paradise. He is shielded from the Great Shock and marries 72 dark eyed [maidens]. He is a heavenly advocate for 70 members of his family. On his head is placed a crown of honor, one stone of which is worth more than all there is in this world."
-Friday Sermon, PATV, Aug 17, 2001

Sheikh Imad Hamato:
"When a man sees one of his brothers being killed for Allah, a person with no head, no legs, his body completely burned. Intestines outside, fingers are gone... The most difficult thing which we fear is what the Shahids [Islamic Martyrs] wish for most of all. They ask Allah: 'Oh God, bring us back [to earth] to be killed by the Apache, so the planes will blow us up, that our heads will be cut off...'
We shouldn't forget that Allah, praise him, in blessing the blood of the Shahid, He forgives him from the first gush of blood. And he sees his place in Paradise. He is shielded from the Great Shock and marries 72 Dark-Eyed Maidens (virgins)."
-PATV religious program, Nov. 3, 2006

These are not the words of an organization or people that want peace. They are, however, the words of Hamas. These are the words of its co-founder, the words of highest ranking official. The fact that Hamas is still firing missiles at Israel suggests they don’t want peace. Palestine is not a prison. Palestine recieves more humanitarian aid per capita than any other region in the world. Most of Gaza DOES have electricity, and Israel supplies it in accordance with the Oslo Accords. They have TV, which they use to brainwash their citizens and children.

And yes, I'm sure there are some terrible Israeli parents who teach their children that the Arabs are evil. When you live in a nation constantly being bombed that tends to happen. I wouldn't be upset if some Palestinian parents were raising their kids bigots either. That happens EVERYWHERE, especially in times of war. It's the fact that the STATE of Palestine is brainwashing. Their text books for elementary school children, their shows for 5 year olds, and even their adult programs.

Hamas and the Palestinians are not that stupid and delusional.

Speaking of actions contradicting what people say, what would Israel's defiance of international law, the Geneva Convention and the UN mean their real intentions are? What would indiscriminately massacring thousands of people after putting them in a humanitarian crisis mean their real intentions are? If we judge by it's actions, Israel would be considered a horrifyingly oppressive state that makes Hamas look like the IRA.