No, they agree with it:http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/hamas-on-peace-and-international-law/

I'm talking about the UN Resolution that the world has been in favor with for 40 years now. There's no Palestinian oppression brought on by Israel??????????????????? That's where the problem is, we're not on the same page, in actuality there is and has been a huge amount of cruel oppression towards Palestinians for decades now. And then the recent oppression of turning of Gaza into a concentration camp was so bad people were dying of malnutrition:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/gaza-reduced-bare-survival-20081205

And then almost 6000 Palestinians killed since 2000, 5500 not including the last 1400 in the massacre. Gaza is just a huge prison and killing zone now, that's extreme oppression. And as for the rest of the occupied territories:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/israeloccupied-palestinian-territories/report-2008

They bulldoze people's homes, murder people on the street, humiliate and make life so much harder for them at checkpoints. People die because they can't get to the hospital in time because of the checkpoints. And then there's the unlawful arrest without any trial and torture of innocent people, which is a direct violation of the Geneva Convention. Israel has been, and continues to cruelly oppress all Palestinians.

This oppression needs to be acknowledged and understood before anything else.

Why dont we all sponsor a trip to both Palestine and Israel and we look at how their daily lives looks to be????? And judge whose right or wrong. And the truth will be revealed. No arguments, no debunking, no disagreements. Easy as 1,2,3.

*New*
ISRAEL ATTACKS JUSTICE BOAT; KIDNAPS HUMAN RIGHTS WORKERS; CONFISCATES MEDICINE, TOYS AND OLIVE TREES
http://freegaza.org/en/home/hope-fleet-news/976-israel-attacks-justice-boat-kidnaps-human-rights-workers-confiscates-medicine-toys-and-olive-trees

Nothing wrong with Israel's daily life, they have a stable economy, get free economic aid from other countries, hell they can even live in other peoples country illegally, their kids are able to go to school/college, they have advance technology. Every poloitician I seen who visited Israel had no complaints about their daily life. But when they all visit palestine they all say the same thing, it is like one huge jail cell. Seriously what do you expect to find bad in Israel when you visit? Visiting both countries would be a waste of time judging by how the Israelis treat the Palestinians and the pictures we see common sense would tell us how it is on both sides.

You see, we’re coming from the exact same point of view. I agree. Israel is evil so far as every other nation in the world is evil. But it’s not a Nazi force. Israel is actually very mild compared to other countries. It’s the only modern nation that hasn’t completely and explicitly retaliated to attacks on its citizens.

In the Six Day War thousands of shells and rockets were fired into East Jerusalem by Syria, Egypt, the Palestinians, and the Jordanians. Yet, Israel did not bomb Cairo. Israel did not attack Amman. Even though in the Yom Kippur War Israel was literally days away from completely capturing Damascus they never touched that city.

Israel has bombed Gaza and other regions and in the process causes civilian casualties. Contrast that with the fact that America responded to being bombed by nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, intentionally maximizing civilian casualties. England turned Dresden into a pile of rubble.

Israel is not a terrible nation -compared to- other nations, and certainly not compared to Hamas or the PLO. During the Gaza conflict the most generous claims say that 1,400 Palestinians were killed. That’s, of course, much higher than the Israeli numbers which were completely ignored. W e only took into account the Palestinian official’s claims. These are almost certainly exaggerated, but let’s assume they were real. Now let’s assume that most of those casualties were civilians. That’s still and incredibly small number.

9/11 killed about 2,700 people. That’s one day, and the Palestinian authorities held parades in the street to celebrate that. In Iraq 3,000 people (mostly civilians,) die every week. But since the common wealth nations, the European Union, and the United States are the attackers that’s war. When Israel kills less than half that many people in roughly the same period of time it’s a massacre.

Israel’s Supreme Court outlawed the same torture tactics that the United States employed in Guantanamo Bay. Israel’s courts have also repeatedly intervened on behalf of the Palestinian human rights. Israel actually has Palestinians continuously, legally and illegally, migrating into its cities. Why, if they’re so horrible to the Arabs, are these people flooding in? Not just from Gaza or Westbank. No, they come from Lebanon, Syria, and even Egypt. Because Israel treats them better than its neighboring countries do.

We criticize Israel because its private companies are building in Westbank, and rightfully so. But when they come through and try to bulldoze these settlements they’re naturally subjecting the Palestinians there. It doesn’t matter that almost all of the homes they bulldozed were part of Israeli settlements and that many were actually Jewish domiciles.

I think it’s silly that I can’t call an anti-Semite like Norman Finkelstein an anti-Semite. Never mind that he’s been fired from four universities because of his anti-Semitism. I also hate how people worship his words, when he’s academic integrity can be compared to John Hagee’s. (Minding you, John Hagee is an anti-Muslim and an anti-Arab who wrote “In Defense of Israel.” In this book the evangelical preacher literally denounced Christ’s divinity in order to defend the Jews. He later recanted, saying he does believe Jesus was the savior, but he still betrayed his faith just so he could twist some information around.)

He even denies the Holocaust. In an interview with a German Newspaper, “Die Welt,” he said, “The numbers of the Holocaust industry are rapidly approaching those of the Holocaust deniers. Indeed, the field of the Holocaust studies is replete with nonsense if not sheer fraud.”

In an interview with Counter Punch he said, “…Jews invented the word 'chutzpah.' They steal, and I do use the word with intent, 95%...”

Do I think that Finkelstein wants to have his family massacred? No, I don’t. Drizza would love to hear me say that, but there’s a difference between being an anti-Semite and a Nazi. He doesn’t take it quite so far, though he does express his solidarity with an organization that is trying to.

He’s an anti-Semite, but I’m a tool for pointing this out. I hate how Israel’s actions are always twisted, no matter what. Israel has returned all of the land it captured in the Six Day War except Westbank and East Jerusalem. Both of which were used to fire mortar and weaponry into East Jerusalem during the war. You don’t think that these concessions suggest progress? Yes, Israeli companies are building in Westbank. Israel is also demolishing a lot of these settlements and still considering the Two State Plan even though it’d be a determent to Israel.

Israel dropped leaflets and flyers; they set off sound bombs and warning shots; they made phone calls and pages; they sent texts, e-mails, and messages to warn civilians in Gaza of incoming bombings. Yet, we still claim that they were intentionally targeting civilians. All of this was a rouse to gain international favor. Israel funded the Islamic brotherhood for its humanitarian aid in Palestine. Now that’s turned to “Israel founded Hamas to tear Palestine asunder.” Israel floods millions of dollars of humanitarian aid into Gaza. They provide the Palestinians with 70% of their electricity. They’re also Palestine’s largest supplier of medical services. That’s all just propaganda to gain international support.

You see why that might be irritating? It’s like how Fatah claimed that Hamas ‘bribed constituent.’ That’s not true. Hamas gave to humanitarian aid and won support through its donations. There’s absolutely no evidence that Hamas was bribing anyone. There’s absolutely no evidence that Israel’s humanitarian aid to Gaza or efforts to minimize civilian casualties were anything other than this. We just make that assumption of our own accord.

I also hate how Hamas can do ANYTHING and it is Israel’s fault. Like that picture Drizza was creaming himself over a page or some odd back. The Palestinians are only attacking Israel because they have no choice and they’re completely desperate and that’s 100% Israel’s fault. It has nothing to do with the fact that the Palestinians are literally educated in public schools to hate Jews. It has nothing to do with the fact that their version of Mickey Mouse teaches them that the Jews are evil. It has nothing to do with the fact that this icon’s co-host walked onto the stage one episode and told the kids that their beloved Fanfur the Mouse was killed the Jews. None of that contributes. Even if it does that’s also Israel’s fault.

The missiles fired into Israel are Israel’s fault too, because they built the wall. Even though the wall historically came well after the missile fir, and actually reduced terrorist attacks into Israel. Israel, of course, was not interested in self preservation. The wall is just a way to starve the Palestinians. That’s why Israel opens the wall for massive amounts of humanitarian aid in intervals that Hamas actually uses to fire missiles and send suicide bombers into Israel. This was actually caught on tape. The gate came open to allow a long line of trucks loaded with humanitarian aid and at this exact moment a missile fired into Israel.

Yes, Israel does horrible things. But these are exaggerated endlessly. They also get way too much media attention, especially considering that every other nation is doing the exact same thing and to a greater degree. Whenever the home of an Arab in Jerusalem is demolished because it doesn’t meet the nation’s safety standards, it’s obviously because Israel is racist. We never even hear about the next door neighbor who was a Jew and has his home demolished for the exact same thing.

I hate how people still pretend that Hamas wants the two state plan when its own charter says “no, no two state, domination!” That would be like if I walked into a Christian church and read the mission statement, “to convert everyone to Christianity,” and then said, “I bet they only want to convert people who come to them and ask to be converted. They’re certainly not going to come knocking on my door and preaching to me at the crack of noon.”



I also hate that. Bullshit, Israelis are constantly taking missile fire. Is this as hard as it is for the gazans? No, but why are we denying that it's taking place?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP92KsqZOi8&feature=PlayList&p=C66BEE5B4A77B917&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10

This Israeli girl, for example, came on and discussed her experience with the rockets. The first comment on there I read when I viewed it was "Bullshit," but it's a fact. We all know, Israel IS being hit by missiles, constantly. So why are we denying it? Because Israel is evil, of course. It's lying. It's all a vast Israeli conspiracy.

Of course they are as a result to occupation. But these rockets are rather weak and claim little civilian lives. Is it right to fire them no but the question was lets compare whose daily life is better and even someone with pro israel views can come up with the conclusion Israelis have a much better chance of living then Palestine. You can call it bullshit I call it common sense. I need to find that statistic but it was said that Israelis are more prone to die from car accidents then any attack from Palestine. Now can we say the same for Palestinians? Israeli conspiracy naw I just say read the facts.

In your response to me justifying Hamas I stated 1000x. If someone keeps you killing you, starving you, depriving you from basic human neccisities for 60 years then dur of course there will be a hatred for that group. Just think of how the African Americans were hating all white people in the past. Sure there were white people who wasnt racist and agreed with slavery but that didnt stop them from hating the white man. They seen the whiteman kidnap them from their homeland and now treat them like shit. Israel has little children in their dungeons, Israel does torture, and there are some racists in Israel so yes both sides are equally racists. As far as treatment Hamas doesnt even compare to Israel crimes. Where is all their UN violations? Honestly how does Israel expect people to act if they keep treating like shit silently? Everything that happens to Israel and all their hatred around the world and I am sorry I know it is tough for you to believe this is because of their treatment of Palestinian people no because they are jews. How can jews stand up for Palestine but at the same token hate jews? See that makes no sense we look further into the situation.

One little mistake... White man did not Kidnap the black person. Black tribes are warring and they did the kidnapping of eachother, then sell there captured into slavery. America was just Buying. So the black sold the black into slavery.

Actually, that was a very small contribution. Most of the African Americans were actually kidnapped by English and brought straight the new world. Only a small number were sold by other African tribes. Also, it was not long after the American Revolution that America made the transfer of new slaves into the new world illegal. You see, the founding fathers were actually against slavery. They simply embraced it because they feared that attacking it would divide the colonists in their stance against England. They were willing to compromise their morals to escape English tyranny. The Americans immediately began placing limits on slavery. These were overturned when Dred Scott went to the Supreme Court under the exact same argument that was later employed in Roe v. Wade.

The whites were citizens. The blacks brought into the new world were slaves. The whites therefore had rights, the blacks did not. Slavery was therefore legal. This lead to the Civil war and the ratification of the 13th amendment which ended slavery altogether. But, it was long before the breeding and keeping of slaves already in the new land was illegal that bringing NEW slaves over was illegal. Most of the slaves in America were therefore kidnapped by the English business men.

This is exactly my point, Yei. See, it's all 100% Israel's fault. Period. Israeli's don't suffer because they've got the stronger military. So, those Israeli mothers who lost their children last year when Hamas blew up that grade school bus didn't suffer. Only the Palestinians suffered because their rockets are too weak. Hamas and the Palestinians are only fighting because their members have been killed by Israel. I don't know, that one beats the hell out of me. The media propaganda, school book lies, and cartoon brainwashing of children has nothing to do with any of it. They're just the desperate little victims who're completely innocent. Never mind the fact that they actually and originally came from Egypt, just like Arafat and it was not; therefore, the Palestinians who dictated the policy of genocide or ratified the charter that demanded complete ethnic cleansing.

See, we've got the same complaints. Puppets pretend like one side of the argument is innocent while the other is a Nazi. Hamas haters pretend that Hamas didn’t win the election, for example. Israeli haters blame terrorism and all the world’s suffering on Israel.

I know it's not 100% Israeli's fault and Israelis do suffer, and I have said Hamas or any Palestinian's terrorist activities are evil and wrong. But the one thing that is important to note is that, the behaviour of Palestinians in general, is to be expected. You already have an antisemitic culture. Now mix that with everything that's happened to them since 1948. If you looked at the quotes in the spoiler, the Prime Minister of Israel said he himself would have probably became a terrorist if he was in their position. But that doesn't mean anything the terrorists do is justified.

But the thing with Israel is that it really seems to unnecessarily treat ALL Palestinians like dirt. And I have no explanation or way to understand that. Ones that don't have anything to do with Hamas have gotten their kids shot, have died at checkpoints trying to get to hospitals, have had their homes bulldozed and their lives just destroyed by Israel just because they are Palestinian. About the bulldozing:

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/palestinian-homes-demolished-without-warning-20080311

This has been going on for years and years, maybe decades. Israeli soldiers come in with a bulldozer, no warning at all. Tell the family to get out, most of the time they aren't even allowed to get their stuff. They destroy everything and give no compensation, and usually no explanations are given.

Explain everything the girl says about Israel's treatment of completely innocent Palestinians: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBPf29ZOWkg
It's very clear they treat them like dirt, and just have no concern for their lives at all.

Why? How's any of that justified in any way? Without even mentioning the war crimes and massacres, and the breaking of international law in general, the regular treatment of Palestinians is enough to not support the state of Israel.

Nice rather then address my facts you try to make it sound like I am completely ignoring Hamas actions. I already explained my stance on where the hatred comes from it is common sense. If you didnt get it when I made the same comparison to African Americans well then tough. Also I never accepted Hamas rocket fire I know and I will still believe it is a result of occupation and treatment of the Palestinians but if you read my previous posts from previous threads like you have I said innocent Israeli civilians dieing is wrong. Address the facts or play dumb your choice.

Israel’s behavior in Westbank is atrocious. Everything you said is true. The checkpoints are relatively understandable, though I still don’t agree with them. Many of the checkpoints are necessary for security….but why are there so many? That’s something Israel has not provided a satisfactory answer for. Profiling against the Arabs is also understandable, but not necessarily disagreeable. It is, however, something considered in western nations too. Targeting Muslims at the airport, for example. It’s crap, but it’s also understandable. Wrong, but to be expected. Not justified, but it doesn't make the nation neccesarily evil.

Having studied Israeli culture I think there are two factors that motivate all of their foreign diplomatic activities. The biggest one of these is the need for security. Israel was born in controversies and has existed in controversies. They’re sick of being hit by rockets, sick of having people try to take them out. The government knows the people are terrified, it knows they’re dissatisfied, and it’s trying to change that. That’s the government’s job, after all, to make its people happy.

But again, inexorable. Israel’s presence in Westbank is apartheid. This kind of discrimination always arises in this kind of system. But, Israel also demolished Jewish homes so I find it hard to believe this was all done just out of spite for the Palestinians. And, Israel wouldn’t be in Westbank if they hadn’t been attacked in 1967. Why should they so willingly give it up? It provides them with security…of course they’re going to be reluctant to sacrifice it.

At the moment, it’s a very stupid idea to hand it over. Palestine is under the control of Hamas, considered by the US, UK, France, EU, Israel and UN to be a terrorist organization. Hamas obviously doesn’t want anything short of eradicating Israel and the Jews. In 1967 Israel captured Westbank to prevent the lobbing of rockets into Tel Aviv and East Jerusalem. Now they’re going to give it up when the PLO is at its most radical?

In addition, Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians is actually better than any other nation in that area. Palestinians are migrating in massive droves into Israel, facing those checkpoints, being stripped down. All because they want to get into Israel. The situation is precarious. Israel is in a corner. They cannot yet give up Westbank because that would result in another war. Yet, if they cling to it you have apartheid and all of the discrimination that comes with it.

Israel did not entirely put itself in this position. It contributed. Adopting the Stern Gang into their national army (though that perhaps wasn’t their fault since it was necessary to protect their fledgling nation,) and the early ethnic cleansing were major mistakes. Understandable, they were terrified holocaust survivors facing a second genocide, but none the less deplorable and unjustifiable.

So yes, Israel does terrible things. The war crimes are exaggerated, as we discovered during the Gaza conflict. We also only heard the Palestinian numbers, not the Israeli numbers. Reuters, CNN, and New York Times all released fraudulent information against Israel. So, the information we did get is obviously unreliable. You only saw one side and that side was vastly exaggerated.

But their fascism and apartheid in Westbank and previously Gaza is still a crime against humanity. I also think that the wall on Gaza should be left intact…only if Israel gives up its control of Gaza waterways and air space. But, they can’t really do this when the Gazans just want to obliterate them because of Hamas’ brainwashing.

Wanting security is not a good excuse for treating all Palestinians so badly. Hamas is not in any position to be trying to commit genocide, they don't have the power or support to do that. What are the innocent Palestinians supposed to do? Let's say there's a Palestinian who's had his family members killed by Israel's random bombings, can't make a decent life because of the oppression put on all Gaza, and he can't even leave. If you put an entire population in that sort of situation, you're not solving anything, you're making more terrorists. Israel should be able to see that, treating all of Palestinians horribly is not the right way.

The general not caring for all Palestinians and their lives is not for security, it's just cruel and racist. In every attack on Palestinians and Lebanon, Israel has very clearly made attacks that were directed at civilians, ambulances, hospitals, etc. Either those were all accidents or Israel is intentionally trying to massacre innocent people. The real power needed to solve the problem is in the hands of Israel. Under the current conditions of Palestinians you shouldn't expect them to suddenly be able to not be racist and drop all the hatred. Israel on the other hand can try to solve this, but they don't. They should negotiate with Hamas and the Palestinians on conditions for the 2-state solution. Hamas isn't dumb enough to suddenly try to commit a genocide after the Palestinians get their own state, they couldn't even do it if they wanted to. And if they do try, they obviously won't get far, and it would be the end of Hamas. The only real solution is to give Palestinians the freedom to lead proper lives, and negotiations for a fair and just 2-state plan is the first step. If Israel just continues it's horrifying oppression nothing will be solved and Israel would be responsible for making things worse.

I love it how no one that I have shown this too have a comeback for it.

Because they believe arabs are just born to hate jews even though there was none of this going on before Israel. Jews are living in the middle east and even in countries such as Iran in which the media states is the new hitler and wants to wipe Israel off the map. So how can he be all this when jews are able to worship in his country? Israel is phony like I said they pretend to play victim and try to show the world this is acts of anti-semtism against them while ignoring what they do to the Palestinians daily.

So very sickening and true.


Its not a race I hate. Its not a religion I hate.

I hate israel.