SeraphAlford wrote:



We already had that discussion, but in this case I mean brainwashing in the sense of North Korea where even if your parents raise you to do one thing your publically taught to do what the state wants. In North Korea they teach their children math by saying, “If I throw a grenade and kill two Americans, and then throw another and kill three, how many Americans have I killed?”

Now, to be fair Palestine is not as bad as North Korea by a long shot. Still, when you have your children growing up watching Fanfur the Mouse on television and he becomes their version of barney, then you announced “Fanfur was killed by Jews,” and then you teach your children to murder, torture, and launch terror attacks against the Jews the result is inexorable.

Yei wrote:



But I doubt the parents object to what the kids are being taught...

btw, these camps that Palestinian kids go to are kind of the "competition" for Jesus Camp lol

digs wrote:



I highly doubt there are Jesus camps in Palestine. And even at those it's just a conservative indoctrination, not a militant murderous one. Hamas is just evil. Period.

Yei Yeah, there probably isn't any Jesus Camps in Palestine.....

But I said the Jesus Camp from the documentary feels they have to compete with the Palestinian extremist camps.

SeraphAlford wrote:



My cousin went to Jesus camp, and there wasn’t anything extreme about that. It was just like normal summer camp except apparently they did bible study in the morning, prayed for the lord to bless their food at meal time, and did regular church at the camp on Sunday.

Yei wrote:



I'm talking about the one in the documentary, where the camp director specifically points out that they're jealous of how much more extreme the Palestinian kids are. And they brainwash kids amazingly well. There's 6-year-olds having "Holy Spirit" seizures on the floor and crying because abortion is still legal and praying to a cardboard cut-out of George Bush.

SeraphAlford wrote:



What in the world? Wow, that’s actually…hilarious. I’ll have to get around to watching that.

raja613 wrote:

I knew very little information about this conflict, but after reading, through losts of websites....it seems that Palestine just wants what was promised to them and Israel seems to oppressing them not the other way around......Why the hell are we giving Israel so much money.....this isn't about religion, its more about we were here first, give us our land back. I think this can be resolved.....easily........

IN THE PAST
Palestine map in 1946
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story583.html
Zionism
In the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as “Zionists,” this group consisted of an extremist minority of the Jewish population. They wanted to create a Jewish homeland, and considered locations in Africa and the Americas, before settling on Palestine.

At first, this immigration created no problems. However, as more and more Zionists immigrated to Palestine – many with the express wish of taking over the land for an exclusively Jewish state – the indigenous population became increasingly alarmed. Eventually, there was fighting, with escalating waves of violence. Hitler’s rise to power and Nazi atrocities, combined with Zionist activities to derail the boycott against Germany and to interfere with refugee efforts, led to increased Jewish immigration to Palestine, and conflict grew.

UN Partition Plan
Finally, in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the democratic principle espoused decades earlier by Woodrow Wilson of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land.

Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55 percent of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30 percent of the total population, and owned under 7 percent of the land.
The map of land that was given away..........in 1967
http://domino.un.org/maps/m0103_1b.gif


CURRENTLY:
Palestinians have been living under Israeli military occupation. While in some parts Israel has allowed a Palestinian “autonomous” entity to take on such municipal functions as education, health care, infrastructure and policing, Israel retains overall power.

According to international law, an occupying force is responsible for the protection of the civilian population living under its control. Israel, however, ignores this requirement, routinely committing violations of the Geneva Conventions, a set of principles instituted after World War II to ensure that civilians would “never again” suffer as they had under Nazi occupation. Israel is one of the leading violators of these conventions today.

Israeli forces regularly confiscate private land; imprison individuals without process – including children – and physically abuse them under incarceration; demolish family homes; bulldoze orchards and crops; place entire towns under curfew; destroy shops and businesses; shoot, maim, and kill civilians – and Palestinians are without power to stop any of it.

When a child is arrested, for example – often by a group of armed soldiers in the middle of the night – parents can do nothing. Knowing that their son is most likely being beaten by soldiers on the way to the station, stripped and humiliated in prison, quite likely physically abused in multiple additional ways, and destined to be held – perhaps in isolation – for days, week, or months (all before a trial has even taken place), parents are without the ability to protect their child. Quite often, in fact, they cannot even visit him.

Finally, when the military trial under which their son is to be sentenced – often to years (sometimes decades) in prison – all they can do is hire a lawyer whose efforts, at best, will reduce the ultimate sentence by a few months. Rarely, if ever, can even the most skilled lawyer do more than afford the child a friendly face in court and be an outside witness to the injustice of the proceedings. Meanwhile, the presence of such a lawyer provides Israel cover for its “judicial system.”

Perhaps most significant – and rarely understood by people in the outside world – is the fact that Palestinians live, basically, in a prison in which Israel holds the keys.

They cannot leave Gaza or the West Bank unless Israeli guards allow them to. If they have been allowed out, they cannot return to their homes and families unless Israeli guards permit it.

Frequently, in both cases, Israel refuses such permission.

U.S. Involvement
Largely due to one-sided special-interest lobbying, U.S. taxpayers give Israel an average of $7 million per day, and since its creation have given more US. funds to Israel than to any other nation. As Americans learn about how Israel is using their tax dollars, they are increasingly calling for an end to this expenditure.

US Interests
Support for Israel interferes with: American relations with the oil-producing nations, with whom we previously had friendly ties; with Muslim consumers, who represent 1.2 billion people world-wide; and removes much-needed money from domestic American requirements — tax revenues that could be addressed to domestic needs are instead sent abroad to prop up a system of discrimination that is antithetical to American principles of equality and democracy.

In addition, the ‘special relationship’ between the U.S. and Israel is increasingly imperiling American lives.

Why, then, is this done? Close examination of the history and current situation reveals that U.S. policies in the Middle East are rarely driven by U.S. interests. Rather, they are largely driven by two very different factors:


1) Special-interest lobbying of the sort that is common to Washington. The only difference from typical lobby groups is that this lobbying is on behalf of a foreign government. Fortune Magazine rates one of the many lobby organizations working on behalf of Israel, AIPAC, as the second most powerful lobby in Washington. In total, many experts rate the pro-Israel interest group as the most powerful lobby in Washington.


2) The efforts of a growing number of individuals with close ties to Israel (known as neoconservatives) who have attained key positions at high levels of the U.S. administration, State Department, and Pentagon.

Interestingly, the oil and weapons industries, although very influential over parts of American Middle East policy, are not responsible for our relationship with Israel. In fact, quite often both of these industries find our support for Israel undermines their corporate interests in the region.

Are the issues in the Israel-Palestine conflict impossible to resolve?

No, the two major issues between the two sides have been resolved for almost a decade. These are:


The legitimacy of Israel.
During much of the Israel-Mideast conflict this has been the issue and it has been conclusively resolved. While some fundamentalist Arab rhetoric continues to challenge Israel's right to exist, most Arab nations and Palestinians now accept that Israel has secured its status and is entitled to the pre-1967 borders. More importantly, the international community and the United States are committed to support Israel's right to exist.

The right of Palestinians to self-rule.
The early rounds of peace agreements have achieved this limited degree of recognition from Israel and self-rule does exist in certain areas of the West Bank as a result of prior peace negotiations.
What major issues remain?


The status of Jerusalem.
Both sides made significant concessions on this issue at Camp David in 1999. The Palestinians agreed that the Jewish Quarter and the Western Wall, which were under Arab control until the 1967 war, would fall under Israeli sovereignty. The Israelis offered the Palestinians control of some East Jerusalem neighborhoods. At center stage was one issue: the political fate of the Harem al-Sharif/Temple Mount area of Jerusalem, which is holy both to Muslims and Jews. The Israelis ultimately proposed that the Palestinian leader would be called "custodian" of Haram al-Sharif and would be able to fly his own flag on the mosques- but they would remain under Israeli sovereignty. This proposal was rejected by the Palestinians. President Clinton ultimately concluded that the Palestinians were most responsible for failing to achieve an agreement because they were not flexible on this issue.


The future of Israeli settlements.
At Camp David in 1999, Barak agreed to eventually withdraw from 90% of the settlements. Arafat agreed that Jewish settlers on the West Bank could remain in settlement blocks in portions of the West Bank that would come under Israeli sovereignty as long as the Palestinians were compensated with new territories, probably near Gaza. However, the Palestinians maintain that the Israeli proposal would permit Israel to annex almost 9% of the Occupied Palestinian Territories in exchange for only 1% of Israel's own territory. The Palestinians observed that the proposal would create a Palestine of four separate cantons entirely surrounded by Israel. The Palestinians also objected to portions of the Israeli proposal which denied them control over their own borders, airspace and water resources.


Rights of Palestinian Refugees
About 500,000 to 780,000 Palestinians were displaced during the 1948 Israeli War of independence, either because they fled Palestine or because they were forced out by the Israelis. UN General Assembly Resolution 194, issued in December 1948, stated that refugees wishing to return to the territory of Israel and willing to live at peace with their neighbors should have the right to do so. The resolution was never implemented. In the 50 years that followed, the refugee population has grown to about 4 million (estimates range from 3.7 million to 4.6 million), many living in camps in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the Gaza Strip and West Bank, in the most primitive conditions.

At Camp David, Yasser Arafat agreed to separate the issue of the "right" of the Palestinian refugees to return to their homes from the actual settlement of claims to that right. The Israelis agreed to consider the return of refugees under humanitarian grounds in the form of family reunions and agreed to the resettlement of an unspecified number of additional refugees. The resolution of this issue would also include financial support and assistance from the United States and other countries. But no progress was made on a detailed compromise based on these concessions because of the lack of progress on the other issues.

The origin of Israeli/Palestinian Conflict
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/index.html
http://www.newsbatch.com/israel2.htm

In a Nutshell: Israeli Palestinian Conflict
http://www.mideastweb.org/nutshell.htm
What the UN says:
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

echo_nina

Brilliant research on a very touchy subject. I'm half hispanic and part Palestinian, part Israeli. I strongly feel that if the U.S. and Britain stepped back and stopped trying to affect a culture that really needs to develop on its own and re-establish their personal identities instead of being dominated and raped by western diplomats and money grubbers, a lot of good can be achieved. This is not to say that each country would stop feeling anger towards eachother. In fact it could get worse before getting better. But thats the case with ALL really difficult situations. Eventually without the fuel and redundant backstabbing done by outsiders, and without the interjections of 500 different people with selfish interests, there might be a very powerful and important resolution.

zebacly wrote:

Israel is doing wrong things .. i mean killing ppl isn't the right solution for this .. am with the Palestinian
& for Hamas .. it is a reaction caused by the bad acts of Israel

drizza wrote:



Reaction is the key word.

digs wrote:

I found an interesting article regarding summer camps in Gaza. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534938,00.html. It's nice to know that their values are being taught over the summer by having fun activities that teach children how to kidnap people :)

Real_ZERO wrote:



source: The Jerusalem Post



Well, the report states "according to pictures obtained by The Jerusalem Post" Where are the pictures?

What I can see from the first picture is a play performed by Palestinian children. The label says "Palestinian children, dressed as IDF soldiers and holding toy guns a reenact the abduction of Gilad Shalit"
wait a min.. Were IDF soldiers the one who abducted Shalit? Wasn't he abducted while he was on a tank?

Or please don't tell me Shalit's matter will be like holocaust issue, in every speech even if it's unrelated.

The other picture shows distributing Quran to counselors, what's the problem here?

So since this report is based on pictures, Can anybody tell me "What these pictures have to do with Gilad Shalit?" or even "Where is the teaching of "how to kidnap people"" or "the finer points of kidnapping." as Fox added?


Otherwise, this report is a load of bunk no wonder fox liked it . Whatever, I bet Palestinian children or any children in their case wouldn't need Hamas or whoever to brainwash them, they just react to what they're going through, Israel only reap what she sow.