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The Nation of Israel and Palestine
4053 cr points
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M / Yo Mommas House
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Posted 12/14/08 , edited 12/14/08

biwi wrote:

no offence to the brits, but if you didn't go and make three different agreements with Jewish, Muslims and the French, non of this would have happened! anyway, i think it's all quite stupid to be exact, there have been many documentries made, showing that normal civillians can live together peacefully, and they have, both jewish and muslim families which support and help each other. but as always with politics, things get twisted.

Why can't both parties just stay in this area together, its not like they can't, its been shown to happen. This whole thing is more about dirty politics and control of extremist groups. To be honest, you think a normal person would swear to knock down the opposing group of people to claim everything? the civillians themselfs are probably tired with everything. bot the jewsih and muslims probably just want to live without having to worry about soldiers shooting at them or kids setting themselves off with bombs. All these war-ish things, have always spun from extremist. And the media has fault too. Focusing on the extremes, allows for more following, thats why things are usually portrayed either one way or the other in the media, they don't really stop to think about what the whole large grey area is.

As for US supporting Isreal, in a way it allows them to have more influence and control in the arab nations. If Isreal state wasn't established in the first place, i don't think Bush could have sucessfully declared war on Iraq.....

just my thought. All war is bad. People should stop and learn to be civil, learn to share and compromise. Thats how it was in the past. As long as we can give up selfish greedy thoughts, peace is possible to attain


Jews and muslims can live together there are some Jews living in Iran the so called terrorist nation freely practicing their religion. There were some christian and jews living in palestine before the invasion. But after the Holocaust the west allowed the jews to just go in kick people out their homes, kill them, and now the Israelis wonder why the Palestinians are attacking them. Well in fact they already know they just need to keep playing dumb ass if they are the victim to get weak Americans who dont have a brain to support them. Our media knows how they can easily influence the sheep in America thats why many Americans think this is just Islam versus Jews completly covering the fact that there was many religions living in that region and also ignoring the fact that palestians say they are fighting for their land rather then fighting the evil jew. Our media also knows there are christians, aetheists and jews against Israel so to shut them up you have to label them. So to silence them call them an Anti Semite or a Self hating jew even if they say nothing about the Jewish religion just the barbaric behavior of Isreal because the sheep must be kept dumb or Israel support will go away. We cant have no smart sheep getting out of line educating the people.

Every politician knows that criticizing Israel could result in Political suicide thats why there isnt a lot of them brave enough to stand against them. Despite their wrong doing they have to keep their mouth shut. Some are being funded by the Israel lobby and other Israel influences in this country. This is dangerous to my country and this doesnt help any relations in the arab world. Israel has been caught spying on us and have killed Americans both of these subjects is taboo in the media to even bring up. They just want us to believe that Israel is our best ally blah blah balh I bet when an Israeli runs for president he doesnt make trips to the USA showing his love but we do them that way every time. We must make a speech in front of AIPAC why is this? This tiny country it seems as if they control the US.
10680 cr points
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26 / M / B pattern highlands
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Posted 12/15/08

asamiueto wrote:


sammora wrote:

u can't just ignore that nation that was living before in the present isreal..drive them away...massacre them... and expect what's them to keep their mouth shut and just die...

be real



what nation?

try reading before you type.

KTHXBYE1111!!!1



don't be that thick i meant the people used to live in israel the years before 1948 ..the palestinian ...
638 cr points
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27 / F / france
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Posted 12/25/08
it's really easy...
there is this state called Palestine
and there are those people called Isrealis..
they came in another country, they put it as their "home" they kicked those inhabitants out of their homes and are now killing them for what? because they are still there, in THEIR home
i don't see anything complicated in that fact...
it's what we see everyday in our TVs..
OH no, that's right, we don't even see it anymore, TV channels doesn't even mind talking about them, too much are dying and their death is now like a daily fact for anyone to care.
it's really easy...for us... to talk about that...
for the Palestinian...it's another story
1845 cr points
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28 / F / out there,,, livi...
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Posted 1/3/09

Real_ZERO wrote:








u call this bravery??? strength !!!
they are a bunch of coward men!! they hide behind their rifles and sheilds while the palestenians fight!!! and u have no right to speak in such away!!! look wat their doing to poor children and women!! and u call ur selves "justice and mercy" people!! yeah go and take care of ur dogs and cats !! and wat are humans life?! a joke?


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28 / F / out there,,, livi...
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Posted 1/3/09

MEMPHADON wrote:

pound for pound, best military in the world.

thats all i have to say about it.


best millitary u say!!?!? so then ur a coward too i say
1186 cr points
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24 / F / Leading your nigh...
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Posted 1/4/09

digs wrote:

But should the Palestinians be allowed to have their land from 1946? Had how did they acquire it in the first place? Historically, the land of Israel has belong to the Hebrew people. Israel has a thriving economy because of their economic policies and relative economic freedoms. Israel is a benefit to the world to have, in fact, they have now found a massive oil reserve there (something the Islamic world is very angry about)


Current day Israelis are the remnants of WW2. In fact if you go a bit farther back the hebrew that lived there considered themselves Palestinians, there was one jewish man who said this I believe it was on Glenn Beck or some shitty show like that, but the reporter automatically shut him down and mocked his words. Yes they shoudl have their land back. How would you feel if men heavily armed came into your house told you to gtfo. Wouldn't you want it back?


Look at Palestine, they fund terrorism and they preform terrorist attacks in Israel (just check the news each day, so many suicide bombings by Palestinians through terrorist groups) Palestine is a threat to Israeli national security, and is an aid to the Middle Eastern theocracies and terrorist organizations. Everyone seems to be looking at the "injustice" that Israel is committing against the Palestinians (if it is argued as an injustice) but no one seems to look a the injustices committed by Israel's neighbors against Israel. Even recently, Look at what happened in 2006 between Israel and Lebanon, look at what Ahmedinejad says concerning Israel. Also, look at the Six-Day War. Egypt, Jordan, and Syria were all fighting against Israel, and Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria gave weapons and troops to those three nations. This wasn't too long ago either, it happened in 1967


What news? You mean CNN? If you were smart you wouldn't just watch all that bullshit. Half the things CNN says is biased, they only show one side of the story. Middle Easte does not equal terroism, it's just the way the west painted the middle east. Most of terroistis that are captured are not middle eastern.



fake regime" that "must be wiped off the map”

He says Zionists are


"the most detested people in all humanity"

"Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken,”

"Today the reason for the Zionist regime's existence is questioned and this regime is on its way to annihilation.”

this is what he said after the war with Lebanon in 2006.






"has reached the end like a dead rat after being slapped by the Lebanese"


Here is also a list of nations who will not let Israeli citizens, or even people with Israeli visas in their passport to enter! Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen. They deport you for merely having been to Israel! Clearly there is a MASSIVE injustice by some of the Middle Eastern nations regarding Israel. They are racist towards them, and they want to do anything that they can to destroy Israel. There is no desire for peaceful co-existence, what they want is to annihilate Israel. You even said in your past post that Clinton even found

the Palestinians were most responsible for failing to achieve an agreement because they were not flexible on this issue


Yeah maybe it is quite racist, but hey I mean it's not like they are any better calling Middle Eastern terrorists... that's racial segregation right there... I smell hypocracy


They don't hire Hamas and Hezbollah to protect them, in fact, those terrorist organizations exploit the Palestinians by using them as a scapegoat to attack Israel (which is what the majority of the Islamic world and Middle East want) By the way, I believe it was Britain who gave the Jewish people that land, not the Israelis marching in and attacking it. And this is an issue of religion to some degree. Parts of the Koran call for death to Jews, and some organizations use something called the " Jihad" as means to say that Islam supports a mass murder of Jews. Ahmedinejad in particular calls for this, and he outright denies that the holocaust even happened.


Hezbollah Is first and foremost NOT a terrorist group. They were attacked and they retaliated. Once again, the news feeds you lies a great example of media manipulation. No arabs do not use Palestinians as scapegoat... once again... media manipulation.

As an Arabic speaker, literally, jihad means doing one’s utmost to realize a goal. The Quran does NOT anywhere state that Islams supports a mass murder of Jews.
Posted 1/14/09

steiner_hardy wrote:


MEMPHADON wrote:

pound for pound, best military in the world.

thats all i have to say about it.

You mean the Israeli Armed Forces? I'd really agree with you if so.

Seriously, I support an Israeli-Palestinian state. Unity and understanding would solve both parties' conflict. Judaism and Islam however is oil and water, and the dream of a united Palestine is way far-fetched.


Do you know how the conflict started?

How would you feel if I had been bullied a lot and I was homeles and the whole world thought "aww, what a poor fella". So because my great great grand parents had lived in your house once, the world agreed it was a good idea to let me live in your house and that I should own 2 rooms and you had nothing to say about it. However, that wasn't good enough for me. I didn't want to share the house so I started forcing you and your family out of the house....


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M / New Zealand
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Posted 1/15/09

zuzuzuzuzuzu wrote:


digs wrote:

But should the Palestinians be allowed to have their land from 1946? Had how did they acquire it in the first place? Historically, the land of Israel has belong to the Hebrew people.


Historically, the land of the USA has belong to the Native Americans. I don't think you'd be okay to leave the USA to the Native americans, right?


That is a completely different situation to the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

I support Israel in this situation.
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31 / M / auckland
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Posted 1/15/09
I more or less thinks that since they have the power and influence, they have the right for the creation of Israel state.

But they should be taking care of the people evicted as this course of action. Instead of denying them food and water. Starving them. Then finally gunning them to death
Posted 1/15/09

Ithemba wrote:


zuzuzuzuzuzu wrote:


digs wrote:

But should the Palestinians be allowed to have their land from 1946? Had how did they acquire it in the first place? Historically, the land of Israel has belong to the Hebrew people.


Historically, the land of the USA has belong to the Native Americans. I don't think you'd be okay to leave the USA to the Native americans, right?


That is a completely different situation to the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

I support Israel in this situation.


Why do you support Israel?

20924 cr points
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23 / M / Singapore
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Posted 1/15/09
Map of "Greater Israel" Published by Radical Settler Movement
http://www.mystudydate.com/pg/blog/Martini/read/1388/the-geostrategic-imperative-of-greater-israel


“The process of national revival of the Jewish people is irreversible and has its internal logic. We shall have no peace as long as the whole territory of the Country of Israel will not return under Jewish control. This might sound too hard, but such is the logic of history. The war on the Holy Land has been already fought for four thousand years and the end cannot be seen. A stable peace will come only then, when Israel will return to itself all its historical lands, and will thus control both the Suez and the Ormudz channel. The state will find at last its geostrategic completeness. We must remember that Iraqi oil fields too are located on the Jewish land. This may seem utopia to many now - but an even greater utopia seemed a hundred years ago the revival of the Jewish state...If you want it, this will not not be a fairy tale"

--Rabbi Avrom Shmulevic of the Bead Artzein ("For the Homeland") Movement.
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32 / F / just around that...
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Posted 1/15/09
all muslims do strongly believe that palestine is for palestenians only- so yes, i do say my self.
646 cr points
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32 / F / just around that...
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Posted 1/15/09

drizza wrote:


biwi wrote:

no offence to the brits, but if you didn't go and make three different agreements with Jewish, Muslims and the French, non of this would have happened! anyway, i think it's all quite stupid to be exact, there have been many documentries made, showing that normal civillians can live together peacefully, and they have, both jewish and muslim families which support and help each other. but as always with politics, things get twisted.

Why can't both parties just stay in this area together, its not like they can't, its been shown to happen. This whole thing is more about dirty politics and control of extremist groups. To be honest, you think a normal person would swear to knock down the opposing group of people to claim everything? the civillians themselfs are probably tired with everything. bot the jewsih and muslims probably just want to live without having to worry about soldiers shooting at them or kids setting themselves off with bombs. All these war-ish things, have always spun from extremist. And the media has fault too. Focusing on the extremes, allows for more following, thats why things are usually portrayed either one way or the other in the media, they don't really stop to think about what the whole large grey area is.

As for US supporting Isreal, in a way it allows them to have more influence and control in the arab nations. If Isreal state wasn't established in the first place, i don't think Bush could have sucessfully declared war on Iraq.....

just my thought. All war is bad. People should stop and learn to be civil, learn to share and compromise. Thats how it was in the past. As long as we can give up selfish greedy thoughts, peace is possible to attain


Jews and muslims can live together there are some Jews living in Iran the so called terrorist nation freely practicing their religion. There were some christian and jews living in palestine before the invasion. But after the Holocaust the west allowed the jews to just go in kick people out their homes, kill them, and now the Israelis wonder why the Palestinians are attacking them. Well in fact they already know they just need to keep playing dumb ass if they are the victim to get weak Americans who dont have a brain to support them. Our media knows how they can easily influence the sheep in America thats why many Americans think this is just Islam versus Jews completly covering the fact that there was many religions living in that region and also ignoring the fact that palestians say they are fighting for their land rather then fighting the evil jew. Our media also knows there are christians, aetheists and jews against Israel so to shut them up you have to label them. So to silence them call them an Anti Semite or a Self hating jew even if they say nothing about the Jewish religion just the barbaric behavior of Isreal because the sheep must be kept dumb or Israel support will go away. We cant have no smart sheep getting out of line educating the people.

Every politician knows that criticizing Israel could result in Political suicide thats why there isnt a lot of them brave enough to stand against them. Despite their wrong doing they have to keep their mouth shut. Some are being funded by the Israel lobby and other Israel influences in this country. This is dangerous to my country and this doesnt help any relations in the arab world. Israel has been caught spying on us and have killed Americans both of these subjects is taboo in the media to even bring up. They just want us to believe that Israel is our best ally blah blah balh I bet when an Israeli runs for president he doesnt make trips to the USA showing his love but we do them that way every time. We must make a speech in front of AIPAC why is this? This tiny country it seems as if they control the US.




seriously drizza i really like to read ur replies, coz simply u know what ur talking about and straight to the point too.
may god bliss u.
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M / New Zealand
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Posted 1/15/09

Okazu606 wrote:

Why do you support Israel?



...

Obviously because I agree with them..
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27 / M
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Posted 1/15/09 , edited 1/15/09

digs wrote:

Sense another thread was sparked up with this question, I decided to make it into a thread (and I didn't see any others regarding it) here will be the appropriate place to discuss it. My opinion in short is that I support the State of Israel.


Palestine was never a nation. It was a collection of Roman provinces. In 70 CE Titus took control of Israel by capturing Jerusalem. The Romans renamed the Jewish homeland Palestine. The Arab nomads who later settled there became the Palestinian Arabs, but made no claim to the land. Later these squatters tried to keep the Jews from returning home after the fall of Rome. Jews fled to Germany and multiplied. Hitler gain power and sent the Jews fleeing back to a now British Palestine.

Palestinians again repulse the Jews. British Mandate falls apart. UN negotiates border agreements with Palestinian representatives and Jewish representatives. Both sides agree but Palestine decide they’re no longer content with the contract and attempt to recapture Israel. Israel retaliates and violates the border agreement by capturing even more of Palestine and integrating it into Israel.

Both people have an irrefutable right to the land. Personally I don’t think this is relevant. Israel exists, accept it and make peace and the world will be better for everyone. Palestine would have a LOT more land if it had just done this in the first place. This whole conflict would've been avoided. Instead they insist that they have a right to Israel and that Israel doesn't have the right to exist.

It's like saying, "My dad used to live in that house you live in now so get out." That's stupid.

Jewish people were there first, has nothing to do wtih anything. Palestinians lived there before modern Israel was established. So what? Since when do we make decision based on religious claims and supposed ancestrial ties? I support neither state. Both needs to shut the hell up and live in peace. I support Israel's right to defend itself and do whatever the hell it wants on its own land. That includes building a wall. They are not obliged to sustain the Gazans. That's Palestines job, but Hamas is too busy starting a war it can't win to take care of its people. With its tiny GDP you'd think it'd buy food for its starving people, but instead it's buying weapons.

It is against the Geneva convention to use civilians as a military buffer, but that’s what Hamas is doing.

The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of civilian population or individual in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.

Geneva Convention (Protocol One) Article 51/2

Hamas MP, Fathi Hamad:

“Accordingly [Palestinians] have created a human shield of women and children!…We desire death like you desire life,”

It’s also against international law to slaughter civilians in order to hit a military target. Doesn’t stop Israel from bombing mosques and UN shelters.


Neither one is acknowledging international laws anymore. Neither one can be considered a good guy anymore. Israel obviously comes much closer to being the protagonist than Hamas does, but they’re not great either.

Look, there’s no realistic alternative. Hamas has to be taken out. There cannot be peace while Hamas exists, not in Israel and certainly not in Palestine. That’s an obvious fact.

So, I guess I agree more with Israel than its opposition simply because I’m realistic. Well, whatever the case, as an American it comes down to one thing. Israel is an ally, Palestine is not. Hell, if somebody fired a rocket at the UK we’d be all over them. When we got bombed on 9/11 Australia, the UK, even France got involved to defend their ally.

We’re obliged to reciprocate this loyalty to all our allies, not just the western ones.

As far as ancestral claims, the Jewish people have been there longer. But again, that's irrelevant.


1. Israel Rule (Biblical period) 1350 BC to 586 BC
2. Babylonian Conquest 587 BC to 538 BC
3. Israel Autonomy (under Persian & Greco-Assyrian sovereignty) 538 BC to 168 BC
4. Revolt of the Maccabees 168 BC to 143 BC
5. Rule of the Hashmoneans & their successors 143 BC to 70 AD
6. Jewish Autonomy (under Roman & Byzantine sovereignty) 70 AD to 637 AD
7. Rule of Muslim Caliphs
Mecca 637 AD to 661 AD
Umayyides 661 AD to 750 AD
Abbaaside 750 AD to 870 AD
Fatimides 969 AD to 1071 AD 637 AD to 1072 AD
8. Seljukes Rule 1072 AD to 1096 AD
9. Crusaders
Ayyubids (in parts only) 1175 AD to 1291 AD 1099 AD to 1291 AD
10. Mamelukes Rule 1291 AD to 1516 AD
11. Ottomans (Turks) 1516 AD to 1918 AD
12. British Mandate 1918 AD to 1948 AD
13. Israel rule under democracy 1948 AD

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