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Are Tuners and Muscle Cars The SAME?
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26 / M / California
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Posted 11/10/08
Apparently i'm not the only one who's wondered about this question, and i didn't see another thread about it, so i felt like asking your guys' opinion.

In my opinion, they're both exactly the same.

Both categories started out as affordable and user-friendly econobox cars, only muscle had v8's from trucks crammed into them to hopefully boost sales (which it did for a while til economy woes and safety concerns).

Both categories did aftermarket modifications to make their cars perform better.
Everything from Nitrous, to engine block modifications, to frankenstein head swaps, to even full-out engine swaps altogether.

Both categories had their own share of posers and wannabe's rebading or disguising their cars as something they're not.

The only real differences i see are:

Level of development: Japan had tons of rules up the ass to where you couldnt' do your own oil changes at home and that the bigger your engine, the bigger your bill for taxes at the end of the year.

Types of racing: While America focused on straight drag racing, top speed, and oval runs, Japanese tuners focused on World Rally Championships, endurance competitions, and other racing sports involving a balance of all categories as opposed to just brute strength.

Exterior modifications: Obviously the early 'tuners' wanted to stand out from the crowd and indeed neon lights and bodykits were a big thing... but soon enough, Japan took this to their advantage and began doing aerodynamic testing and specialty modification to make functional aftermarket equipment that not only lowered the center of gravity but also properly directed or diverted air to wherever it was supposed to be.


So with that all said, what is it that actually separates muscle cars and tuners?

Aren't both really just under the same category as 'hot rodders' and 'car lovers'?



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26 / M / Ohio
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Posted 11/10/08
Great Topic bro!

I own cars throughout the whole spectrum. It's sad but the separation between the two is formed by mentality only, in my opinion. I live in Ohio, we have GM plants in our town, and because my DD is a Prelude, I get looked down upon because I'm "Un-American" for driving a modded Honda, and not your run of the mill I/H/E and Cammed Fox Body.

But when I'm in the Firebird at the track, the domestic guys love me, but even more eye opening is the fact that NEVER in my whole life, while driving any of my domestic cars, has one import driver ever said ONE negative thing about me or my choice in driving a domestic(on that given day)

It's all mentality in my opinion.
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26 / M / California
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Posted 11/10/08

CaisterNatsumi wrote:

Great Topic bro!

I own cars throughout the whole spectrum. It's sad but the separation between the two is formed by mentality only, in my opinion. I live in Ohio, we have GM plants in our town, and because my DD is a Prelude, I get looked down upon because I'm "Un-American" for driving a modded Honda, and not your run of the mill I/H/E and Cammed Fox Body.

But when I'm in the Firebird at the track, the domestic guys love me, but even more eye opening is the fact that NEVER in my whole life, while driving any of my domestic cars, has one import driver ever said ONE negative thing about me or my choice in driving a domestic(on that given day)

It's all mentality in my opinion.


Thanks.

Great to hear someone with experience in both cars.

Preludes have always taken a lot of shit, but i've seen some 9sec non-nitrous ones that do quite well.

I wonder though, what forged this mentality into people? We all love cars, even if we don't agree on types of racing or methods in how we do things.
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26 / M / Ohio
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Posted 11/10/08
Mine's a low boost, SC6152e powered DD.

It does suck. Generally speaking, it seems to be the older "muscle car group" that instills the Import hating mentality into everyone else. I'm not saying every over 35 V8 lovin' car guy is an import hater, but here, it is that way most of the time.
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26 / M / California
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Posted 11/10/08 , edited 11/10/08

CaisterNatsumi wrote:

Mine's a low boost, SC6152e powered DD.

It does suck. Generally speaking, it seems to be the older "muscle car group" that instills the Import hating mentality into everyone else. I'm not saying every over 35 V8 lovin' car guy is an import hater, but here, it is that way most of the time.


wasn't that turbo more geared towards the B series rather than the H's? I see it mostly on civics but rarely on preludes. People kept complaining about lag.

and actually, here in soCal one out of every three domestic fans hates imports with a passion and refuses to listen to anything that has a japanese-sounding name.
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26 / M / Ohio
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Posted 11/10/08
Not too much lag, honestly.

It's sad, 95% of my friends are import guys, and they have the ability to respect anything that is well build and put together. They seem to look less at where the manufacture originated from.
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26 / M / California
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Posted 11/10/08
ah, okay. It's been so long since i've heard someone name that specific turbo, lol. And most of the time people just spurt the numbers just so they think they can confuse other car-owners.I'll stick with the good ol' IHI Hybrid turbo that came in my beater, lol.

I dont' care for manufactureres anymore... everyone's given blowjobs to everyone at this point. Hell i still have kids saying how Italian cars are better than German cars, yet they're shocked and calling me a bullshiter when i tell them Audi owns Lambo. lol.
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26 / M / Ohio
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Posted 11/10/08
About the spitting out numbers thing, that's why I got so flustered in the other thread. All these kids post pics of turbo Mag cars and claim them to be their own and claim OUTRAGEOUS speeds and other shit. so gomen.

I'm a Honda fanboy til I die
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26 / M / California
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Posted 11/10/08

CaisterNatsumi wrote:

About the spitting out numbers thing, that's why I got so flustered in the other thread. All these kids post pics of turbo Mag cars and claim them to be their own and claim OUTRAGEOUS speeds and other shit. so gomen.

I'm a Honda fanboy til I die


It's cool. I was just gettin' at you for the speed run bash. I kinda knew where you were coming from, but yeah. Sorry 'bout that meself. ^-^

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Posted 11/10/08
imo a musle car is one that rolled from the factory back in the day makin 300 to 400hp.

and a tuner is a newer car that started out as an economy car with a smaller more efficent type engine but in the end people wind up moding and tuning them to make 200 / 300+ hp

i like both types of cars in fact once i can afford it im gonna put a V8 in my nissan : ) best of both worlds.
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26 / M / Philadelphia
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Posted 11/10/08 , edited 11/10/08

CaisterNatsumi wrote:

Mine's a low boost, SC6152e powered DD.

It does suck. Generally speaking, it seems to be the older "muscle car group" that instills the Import hating mentality into everyone else. I'm not saying every over 35 V8 lovin' car guy is an import hater, but here, it is that way most of the time.


No0o0o...Not another low boost car with a big turbo.... I had a sc61 before. I see you have the E cover.. I had the S port cover. Good turbo but doesnt really start to make power until the 24+ psi range.

Ive been looking to redo my setupand shoot for 800hp . Been really looking into the Hx52/Hx55 turbos. Relatively cheap, built diesel tough and spool up insanely fast for a standard wet chra. And the ramp rate on the hx52 turbo is believably crazy.

All being pushed out of 2.0 4 banger.
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25 / M / middle of NOWHERE
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Posted 11/10/08
Muslce and tuner cars are not the same.. it depends on the car. you can have a v8 nissan 350z and call that muscle for the massive amount of hp it will have. you can also make a charger a tuner car. i think it depends on setup but usually cars that are muscle cars are bulky and heavy and just look kinda big compared to a turbo'd eg. i'd rather have a tuner track car, and a muscle street car, mayb an old 240z or 280z with a nicely tuned rb25 swap. or you could go crazi and put an ls1 into a miata keke. i'd rather have an import over a domestic. i used to like japanese cars when i was younger, but i like classy cars now, nice simple audi, or a bmw. my saab is old but it drives like i just got it off the lot.
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24 / M / SoCal
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Posted 11/11/08
all in all its the same. Muscle goes for power and tuner goes for handling. Thats the only difference. I like tuner more cuz they look better. I mean you cant beat a classic muscle car but the new things arent that spiffy
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24 / M / WA
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Posted 11/11/08
Ha, sorry boys but Australia got the best of both worlds.

We got VL Turbos with RB25's that do 9 second passes. It's cool, because of Holden has always used different engines.

I'm one of those people who hates weak engine high boost. I love a powerful engine with a high level boost. Not a fan of preludes thanks to idiots putting kits on em and doing nothing to the engine.
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26 / M / SOCAL
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Posted 11/11/08
I find both types to have the same goals, but they are definitely a different genre. The styles are completely different. Muscle Cars always use 100% domestic parts to upgrade their cars. As opposed to Tuners which use any means possible.

If I were to compare the two, I'd say it's like fruit loops and cap'n crunch. They both taste great as cereals, but they taste like shit if you put 'em together.
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