Hmm, interesting concept. I've never thought about it like that. Glad you brought this topic up, topic creator.

Now that you've mentioned it, although both Tuners and Muscle Cars are different, the gist of the main idea is the same. I suppose it's more so just a pride thing. i.e Those who swear by Tuners or Muscle Cars and preach it to no end, and I guess that's how we end up with the "My type of car is better than your type of car because it's not my type of car" stupid arguments.

Ehh.. the way I see it is both Tuners and Muscle Cars are pretty much the same in the sense that both try to target a specific audience in terms of modding for performance and/or looks/style (Without going into the whole reliability, costs, etc. issues). The only difference between the two is whom they're trying to market it to.

muscles = gays . tuners = thumbs up . i juz cant get enuff of beating up muscle cars

thanks for the feedback so far guys.

I understand some people believe muscle cars = 300hp rolln' out from the factory, but then Evo's, STi's, 3000GT VR4's, and Supra TT's would all be considered muscle as well.

Hence why i'm still confused where everyones' mentality originated from.

I respect all forms of racing and customization equally. After all, in the end, we all love our cars.

Ive got a strange view on this subject.

I always thought that muscle cars wern't necessarily "Tuned" at all, I thought the point of a muscle car was to just stick with a basic V8 engine tweak it slightly to give the engine maximum pep and thats about it, Everything else is kept in basically a factory standard. (Maybe wider tyres also but thats for common sense and safetys sake)

Tuners are cars that have been completely gutted and improved to the max, Suspension, Brakes, Engine... You name the part and its been tuned, Interiors and exteriors have been changed to make the car more individualistic/sporty.

Thats my view on the difference.

The only question is: Can cars outside America be considered "muscle cars"?
In Europe for example if you have a car with a large engine like a V8 ETC I think their more considered to be "supercars" or "sports cars".
Is the concept of muscle cars an American thing?
You wouldn't call a BMW M3 GTR a muscle car would you? Even though it has a V8 producing 444 bhp (race version—street version produced 380 bhp)

Set me straight on this topic people!

True about the power but the thing is the car is built to handle the power unlike the modern muscle cars.

Then wouldn't it be better to say that the newer modern versions are merely poorly designed knockoffs using the same name, while muscle and tuning is the same? *still curious*

LIES. Cpt'n crunch and froot loops taste great together

Fine. Fruity Pebbles and Cookie Crips!

Anymore, I don't think there is any real difference between them. There are imports making crazy power on the drag strip and muscle cars that can go toe to toe with a corvette on a road course. I think the lines have blurred to the point that one genre isn't nessesarily better than the other in any way, other than ones personal preference. They're all simillar works of art, just done on different kinds of canvas(does that make any sense?).

same, if your tuning a muscle car, it's a tuner car. tuning any car is a tuner car. unless tuner means japanese cars?

tuning somehow stayed a japanese-car term, i suppose because of the successful IMPORT TUNER magazine.

Well the term Muscle Car came before they had any idea of Tuner cars. It was probably brought to their attention when the Japanese tuners arrived, yet the Americans wished to keep the term Muscle for their national Tuner.

Indeed, if you look at the characteristics of both, you would find that both tuners and muscle cars go through the same phases. Most of them are heavily modded from a smaller base. Both usually have below 350kw to start off with but are modded heavily to have increased horsepower, visual appearance and audio appliances. Where as most supercars and exotics have little modification unless its something like colour or an extra cd player...or ridiculous accessories that speak volumes at the owner.

So I reckon a Muscle car should be considered a Tuner, but maybe branching it off to Muscle Tuner and Import Tuner or something.

How bout we start a real topic that actually makes sense. Japanese Muscle VS American Muscle!

Lets bring out the old school car lovers into this!

Problem with a 'versus' topic is it's never-ending.

There'll never be a winner and it'll go on forever as spam.

The purpose of the thread is to get to the meat of it all, not to create more smoke'n'mirrors.

True, but there's always more entertainment in argument.

The question is, how long can you last?