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Two Biggest Lies Told By Internet Fansb Groups: "This Is A Free Fansub, Please Support This Anime Once It Gets Licensed"
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M / In Memphis, with...
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Posted 11/12/08

AnimeKami wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


BloodySocks wrote:

I don't think fansubbers are saying the anime is free as in it's publicly accessible. I'm pretty sure they just mean that they are not SELLING their fan subbed anime and warning people that if they are buying it, they are being scammed. And as for licensing, I believe that is English dub or sub licensing. The idea is that because we non-japanese speaking folk cannot understand anime and are forced to wait till it's released dubbed or miraculously english subbed, we are given the privilege to see it at the same time the Japanese people do at home on their TiVo =/. It's not a matter of the anime being licensed, it's a matter of it being accessible to us, English-speaking people.

Edit, ehem, back to the point, we aren't being lied to, we are just being comforted so we don't feel so bad about seeing it. If the message said "YOU ARE STEALING FROM JAPAN YOU *******" I'm sure a lot of people would be reluctant to watch anime.


But without properly acknowledging what they're doing with fansubs to their fans, just how many of the anime fans you see out there with misconceptions on licensing, free anime, and with the rest of the anime subculture?


MisterH wrote:

Why isn't crunchyroll being sued, they're a big company commiting crime en masse by distributing pirated works according to your logic.

You know why ?
Licensing laws aren't that simple.

<3 the law.
The end.


crunchyroll only played host for their CR users as an internet podcast site, thereby being neutral. And they will take down North American licensed anime series when they received a C & D/cease and desist notice from the licensing company. It's just like the Japanese P2P file sharing site is a neutral third company, but the users who uploaded the illegal raw files are the ones that are violating the copyright act. It's the users who uploaded the illegal files that are the criminals.


most retarded thing you've said.

cr has to sign some sort of agreement to use the licensed animes, therefore they can't be "neutral" they've done the necessary proceedures to play those animes.

aside from that FACT no anime company is going to track down 1 individual and sue their ass off for uploading one raw, it isn't worth it for them.

THIS IS MORE THAN FACT

WASTE OF BANDWIDTH 5 DOLLARS, WASTE OF SPERM AND EGG 10 DOLLARS, WASTE OF MY TIME... PRICELESS. FOR EVERY THREAD YOU MAKE YOU JUST SUCK.


Oh please, relax. Don't insult the man. He is trying his very very best to do what he can't do in the real world with people his age.
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22 / F / Planet Earth
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Posted 11/12/08
OH I KNOW. Maybe he's trying to practice his pofo or LD or Policy.....or maybe even parli!!!! ...makes SO much sense now. *has brain cracked*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Forensic_League
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26 / F / The great not so...
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Posted 11/12/08 , edited 11/12/08
OMG this is getting tiring if you don't like fansubs then don't watch them. I don't think alot of people on here will agree with you and you used to be a fansubber too so you were also partaking (sp?) in illegal activity. Please stop making flame threads. I like fansubs cause it gives me a good chance to preview the anime before I buy it on DVD b/c it would suck if you buy an $30 anime DVD just to find out its boring and is a waste of time to watch and you have to go through all that trouble just to return it and everything. So I benefit from fansubs and RAW files it helps greatly when I want to find an new anime to buy plus it gives me a chance to watch new anime that is unliscensed in the U.S. I have to say I love what Funi is doing now they are putting up anime episodes on their youtube account plus its LEGAL unlike the rest of the episodes that are on youtube and they acquired Shikabane no Hime within weeks of its airing date in Japan and they are subbing it and uploading it LEGALLY on youtube I hope Funi does this with new anime releases from Japan.
Posted 11/12/08 , edited 11/12/08

DomFortress wrote:
crunchyroll only played host for their CR users as an internet podcast site, thereby being neutral. And they will take down North American licensed anime series when they received a C & D/cease and desist notice from the licensing company. It's just like the Japanese P2P file sharing site is a neutral third company, but the users who uploaded the illegal raw files are the ones that are violating the copyright act. It's the users who uploaded the illegal files that are the criminals.


So Napster was shutdown because..... ?
It had centralized servers that hosted copyrighted content, people uploaded to those servers, but only the owners of the servers were sued.

Because hosting copyrighted content is kind of illegal.
If sites like Crunchyroll never existed, some people wouldn't have ever gone to find the high definition fansub version to keep.

Anime studios not hiring someone for a few days to send out a few hundred C&Ds, kinda shows a lack of devotion to stopping distribution of fansubs overseas.

They'd rather help the police hunt for raw providers.

Although in their eyes, removing crappy quality videos in three seperate parts is more important than getting entire series removed on crunchyroll.
I mean, I got a C&D notice for an ep of clannad while it was airing, directly from TBS, yet the whole series and it's sequal are still available here.
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22 / M / The Great Hindu M...
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Posted 11/12/08
In DomFortress' other posts he'd said that Crunchyroll works with the anime studios to be able to host it on their website, making Crunchyroll their North American licensor. It explains why we haven't been shut down, and Crunchyroll only removes the licensed anime when asked to do so, making us BARELY safe.
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Posted 11/12/08

SkeletalReaper wrote:

In DomFortress' other posts he'd said that Crunchyroll works with the anime studios to be able to host it on their website, making Crunchyroll their North American licensor. It explains why we haven't been shut down, and Crunchyroll only removes the licensed anime when asked to do so, making us BARELY safe.


Well, if our only problem is just taking off an anime when asked, I think we are more than barely safe. Taking them off on request is pretty simple. Anyway, you should be the admin for the fansub petitioning website I suggested earlier.
lkmjr 
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Posted 11/12/08
I think that subbers say that their work is free partially because they didn't pay for it themselves, and therefore have no right to sell it. Think of it this way: Are you passionate about anything besides anime?? Anything artistic or creative (i.e. art, music, etc.). If you are, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say that is doesn't feel right to create something and not share it with other people. For example, I love writing, but the thought of just leaving some of my stories in some abandoned folder on my hard drive is rather terrifying, to tell the truth. Stories are meant to be told, music listened too, art observed. Similarly, a fansub is useless to its creator. Unless shared with others, there is no point. And I know from experience that the moneymaking portion of sharing art (in the general sense, not just the visual variety) is more like an added bonus. Even if they weren't earning money, an artist is happy with their work as long as it is seen and admired. Fansubs are basically the same way, except that the revenue is nonexistent. And they're marketing someone else's art, not their own, unless you count the subtitles themselves.

And also, the animes ARE licensed to Japanese studios and stations, but not to AMERICAN studios or stations yet (most of the time.) This means that if their operating within the US or other countries where the anime isn't licensed, they can't be charged with copyright infringement because each country follows their own laws, not those of other countries unless they are a citizen of or operating in said foreign country, in this case Japan. Japan can't charge them because they aren't a Japanese citizen and the US can't charge them because it's Japanese media and therefore does not have any legal relevance within the US. And even when the anime DOES get licensed, since they marketed the subs before they were illegal they can't be charged. In short, since the media isn't American the US can't do anything and since the people are American Japan can't do anything, and even when it does get licensed so long as subbers delete any downloadable files that they posted themselves they're technically not responsible for any of the vids flying around the Net since they were contributed by other users (who technically downloaded the original file directly from the subbers, but the US can't prove that without wasting valuable time and money) and even though the subtitles were added by them since they were added before the anime got licensed they can't be charged. Essentially, fansubs have found the single loophole in the law, or at least from what I can tell.

That being said, I'm no expert. I'm simply offering my view of the events.
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Posted 11/12/08
These threads are progressively becoming more belligerent in nature and delving into trolling. Are fansubs illegal? Of course they are under certain interpretations of the law. The interpretation of copyright law is somewhat absurd at times though as the original framework did not include proper consideration for digital media. For this reason the international copyright legislature is far from being set in stone.

More importantly I'm curious what point the OP is trying to prove. As it I wouldn't be surprised if he was some guy who worked for ADV or Funimation as there is a clear agenda on the table. It is no surprise that over half the posts already made aren't taking the subject seriously.

Also I'd rephrase it from 'stealing' to denial of funds that may or may not have been given in exchange of free publicity. Stealing in the classical sense of the word implies loss of goods, not loss of potential gain. If you wish to make it negative perhaps 'sabotage' would be a more.
Posted 11/12/08

lkmjr wrote:

I think that subbers say that their work is free partially because they didn't pay for it themselves, and therefore have no right to sell it. Think of it this way: Are you passionate about anything besides anime?? Anything artistic or creative (i.e. art, music, etc.). If you are, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say that is doesn't feel right to create something and not share it with other people. For example, I love writing, but the thought of just leaving some of my stories in some abandoned folder on my hard drive is rather terrifying, to tell the truth. Stories are meant to be told, music listened too, art observed. Similarly, a fansub is useless to its creator. Unless shared with others, there is no point. And I know from experience that the moneymaking portion of sharing art (in the general sense, not just the visual variety) is more like an added bonus. Even if they weren't earning money, an artist is happy with their work as long as it is seen and admired. Fansubs are basically the same way, except that the revenue is nonexistent. And they're marketing someone else's art, not their own, unless you count the subtitles themselves.

And also, the animes ARE licensed to Japanese studios and stations, but not to AMERICAN studios or stations yet (most of the time.) This means that if their operating within the US or other countries where the anime isn't licensed, they can't be charged with copyright infringement because each country follows their own laws, not those of other countries unless they are a citizen of or operating in said foreign country, in this case Japan. Japan can't charge them because they aren't a Japanese citizen and the US can't charge them because it's Japanese media and therefore does not have any legal relevance within the US. And even when the anime DOES get licensed, since they marketed the subs before they were illegal they can't be charged. In short, since the media isn't American the US can't do anything and since the people are American Japan can't do anything, and even when it does get licensed so long as subbers delete any downloadable files that they posted themselves they're technically not responsible for any of the vids flying around the Net since they were contributed by other users (who technically downloaded the original file directly from the subbers, but the US can't prove that without wasting valuable time and money) and even though the subtitles were added by them since they were added before the anime got licensed they can't be charged. Essentially, fansubs have found the single loophole in the law, or at least from what I can tell.

That being said, I'm no expert. I'm simply offering my view of the events.


Do you have any idea just how much money that the anime studios aren't making enough to paid their staff and employees, yet had to keep working to barely survive, by making cheap animated advertisements for their corporate sponsors, all because of fansubs abuse? How does an operating loss of US$32.6 million sounds to you?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-09-17/iwakaze-capital-takeover-of-gonzo-parent-proceeds

And do keep in mind that what the internet fansub groups are doing isn't art, but illegitimate practice of altering the illegal HD duplicated work with subtitles, and distributing their illegitimate works on an internet distribution network; a distribution method that they cannot control nor restrain, thereby overpopulating the anime related media market worldwide, by fans for fans.
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