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Two Biggest Lies Told By Internet Fansb Groups: "This Is A Free Fansub, Please Support This Anime Once It Gets Licensed"
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M / Crapsack World
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Posted 11/12/08 , edited 11/12/08
Okay Domfortress, here's a juicy question for you. What happens when fansubs vanished from the face of the Earth? Does it solve the problem of the rapidly declining anime industries in north america? What will happen to the general audience who likes to watch anime when the fansub is gone? What about the people who are too poor to buy or a place that are too inaccessible to reach to buy DVDs?

So basically speaking, you want to make fansubs vanish from the face of the Earth without knowing the dire consequences that it might follow.

And here's another thing, why is that the anime industry in america is working with the fansubs which you hated so much? Because they knew the importance of fansubs as a mean to introduce and to measure how big the audience is before they license it. Infact, funimation is using fansubs to measure it's audience and half way to the series, they'll licensed it if they find it promising and then the fansubs group stop fansubbing to support the license holder. If you don't believe me then consider the fansub history of Gunslinger Girl: Il Teatrino which had bee recently licensed by funimation. And that's not all, they use the same tactics before they licensed Slayers Revolution...
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30 / M / Kyoto Prefecture,...
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Posted 11/12/08
do i have to post my opinions? sigh....

the way you post (word "hidden" expressionism, intentions and such and such...), you want to deliver a message that we, are idiots and don't know about this things? and plus, i saw someone post here that this is your ????th thread about fansubbing... if you're that MAD, go find yourself a lawyer and file criminal cases against the fansubbing group... simple and the best... THE END... instead of making such nuisance and then banging here and there... you can't? then keep quiet and wait for the world to say to the subbers "its enough, thank you for your time and work"...

PS: if you need attention, go look for a psychologist...

~"I IGNORE THIS THREAD" MODE
Posted 11/12/08

Maou068 wrote:

Okay Domfortress, here's a juicy question for you. What happens when fansubs vanished from the face of the Earth? Does it solve the problem of the rapidly declining anime industries in north america? What will happen to the general audience who likes to watch anime when the fansub is gone? What about the people who are too poor to buy or a place that are too inaccessible to reach to buy DVDs?

So basically speaking, you want to make fansubs vanish from the face of the Earth without knowing the dire consequences that it might follow.

And here's another thing, why is that the anime industry in america is working with the fansubs which you hated so much? Because they knew the importance of fansubs as a mean to introduce and to measure how big the audience is before they license it. Infact, funimation is using fansubs to measure it's audience and half way to the series, they'll licensed it if they find it promising and then the fansubs group stop fansubbing to support the license holder. If you don't believe me then consider the fansub history of Gunslinger Girl: Il Teatrino which had bee recently licensed by funimation. And that's not all, they use the same tactics before they licensed Slayers Revolution...


Yeah I could see this as a benefit for both parties since you will know what the audience is looking for and could possibly view the message boards for input and mabye even get help in designing the dvds features and such.
They may be losing money but that is to be expected when trying to adapt to the unrestricted territory that is the internet which has changed the entertainment industry drasticly.
I am hoping that the anime studios start airing content online and streaming with subs for all to see you could probably fill up the ad space easily if you have a large audience, and with the internet you could increase your viewership by a great amount, with the right promotions and getting the word out I am sure it would work quite well.
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31 / F
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Posted 11/12/08
well now we really don't want to know about your regret and honestly i don't care if they do something illegal or not, besides it's not like they are the only one's, what about the torrent sites? Well? They not only have anime on torrents but about 90% of the things that are on torrents are illegal copies, i know those copies were not made by them but they were made by someone, the fact is 90% of the whole internet is based on piracy, and most people condone it, yes studios lose heaps of money, but didn't they already make heaps of money? Let's face it 90% if not more, of the internet does not care if the product they are downloading is illegal or not, at least until they find a way to arrest everybody that downloads and when that time comes, i think 90% of the internet surfers will be in Jail. And also you are still watching fansubbed anime and as such i find you hypocritical.
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26 / M / Adelaide, Australia
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Posted 11/12/08 , edited 11/12/08
Dude.. I got things to say.. bcuz this whole thread is pointless..

1. WHY DO YOU CARE?? YOUR NOT EVEN JAPANESE!
2. Have you seen how many anime's are there on the net? and how many of them have been subbed?
3. Have you ever heard of anyone at all being sued for subbing?
4. KEYWORD "FAN-sub". so this means that fan's of the anime are using their own time to sub it for people who cant understand japanese.
5. FANSUBBING/COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT is uncontrollable now. You can't sue 1 person in which millions of other people are doing the same..
6. If you don't like fansubbing and illegal copies.. GO BUY THEM! see who cares..
Last but not least..
7. YOU'RE 30 YEARS OLD! WTF R U DOING WATCHING ANIME?? get a life.. seriously..
Posted 11/13/08
This is in the first post as well



Seeing as DomFortress is so adamant to continue this subject then I will allow this thread to stay open at my discretion. If any other mods disagree with my decision then please let me know.

A couple of things for other posters to take note of:
1. Stay on topic - Do not flame each other just because you disagree with Dom or anyone else's opinions. I am sick of having to delete your posts and contrary to popular belief I do not like having to warn people so don't make me do it. Having said this, if I see anyone flaming in this thread in the future, they will be issued a warning and/or banned by me.

2. If you don't like this topic then do not post in this thread. Posting stupid insulting coments just highlights your complete immaturity and lack of respect for other users and the topic starter.


~deleted comments
Posted 11/13/08
Again.But as the other users said,what are you trying to prove?
If they are cheating then why don't go and establish your own fansubbing group?
In that way you wouldn't call others or yourself a cheater. =/
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26 / M
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Posted 11/12/08 , edited 11/12/08
lol.. if u hate fansubbers/anime .. do us a favour... get off cr
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32 / F / my room!
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Posted 11/13/08
i am a sucker for fansubbing. i like fansubbed anime. but i do go out and buy the anime if it gets released in america. or if i can buy it with english subtitles from whatever company. some anime just doesn't make it to the US, so the only way i can get it with english subtitles is through fansubs. i personally think "free fansub" is that nobody was paid to do it and the fan group didn't get paid in any way shape or form. they're getting the short end of the stick because the fansub group has to pay for the manga or download for the anime or shll out money for programs etc etc etc. if i could i would fansub. i think it would be cool helping others share in the love for certain anime or manga series.
lkmjr 
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21 / F / Dreamland....
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Posted 11/13/08

DomFortress wrote:


lkmjr wrote:

I think that subbers say that their work is free partially because they didn't pay for it themselves, and therefore have no right to sell it. Think of it this way: Are you passionate about anything besides anime?? Anything artistic or creative (i.e. art, music, etc.). If you are, you'll know what I'm talking about when I say that is doesn't feel right to create something and not share it with other people. For example, I love writing, but the thought of just leaving some of my stories in some abandoned folder on my hard drive is rather terrifying, to tell the truth. Stories are meant to be told, music listened too, art observed. Similarly, a fansub is useless to its creator. Unless shared with others, there is no point. And I know from experience that the moneymaking portion of sharing art (in the general sense, not just the visual variety) is more like an added bonus. Even if they weren't earning money, an artist is happy with their work as long as it is seen and admired. Fansubs are basically the same way, except that the revenue is nonexistent. And they're marketing someone else's art, not their own, unless you count the subtitles themselves.

And also, the animes ARE licensed to Japanese studios and stations, but not to AMERICAN studios or stations yet (most of the time.) This means that if their operating within the US or other countries where the anime isn't licensed, they can't be charged with copyright infringement because each country follows their own laws, not those of other countries unless they are a citizen of or operating in said foreign country, in this case Japan. Japan can't charge them because they aren't a Japanese citizen and the US can't charge them because it's Japanese media and therefore does not have any legal relevance within the US. And even when the anime DOES get licensed, since they marketed the subs before they were illegal they can't be charged. In short, since the media isn't American the US can't do anything and since the people are American Japan can't do anything, and even when it does get licensed so long as subbers delete any downloadable files that they posted themselves they're technically not responsible for any of the vids flying around the Net since they were contributed by other users (who technically downloaded the original file directly from the subbers, but the US can't prove that without wasting valuable time and money) and even though the subtitles were added by them since they were added before the anime got licensed they can't be charged. Essentially, fansubs have found the single loophole in the law, or at least from what I can tell.

That being said, I'm no expert. I'm simply offering my view of the events.


Do you have any idea just how much money that the anime studios aren't making enough to paid their staff and employees, yet had to keep working to barely survive, by making cheap animated advertisements for their corporate sponsors, all because of fansubs abuse? How does an operating loss of US$32.6 million sounds to you?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-09-17/iwakaze-capital-takeover-of-gonzo-parent-proceeds

And do keep in mind that what the internet fansub groups are doing isn't art, but illegitimate practice of altering the illegal HD duplicated work with subtitles, and distributing their illegitimate works on an internet distribution network; a distribution method that they cannot control nor restrain, thereby overpopulating the anime related media market worldwide, by fans for fans.


I know. I'm not saying that it's not costly even if it is free. And the whole art thing was a sort of metaphor.
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76 / M / far away home
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Posted 11/13/08
hypocrite
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23 / F / Anime world...
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Posted 11/13/08
Hmm....actually glad tat fansub groups exists!!
If they dun exist, I wudn't be able to watch anime cuz I wudn't be able to understand.
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M / ふぃりぴん!
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Posted 11/13/08
Again?
If fan subbers didn't exist, do you think anime would be this popular?
People who don't understand Japanese will have to wait for DVD sets, and that would take quite a while.
The whole reason behind the 'Anime Craze' thing is because of the fan subbers' efforts in translating those words in a language understandable by many. If we had to wait for DVD sets, the Anime can be popular when the Anime is 1 year old.
I'm not saying that I support nor condemn fan subs, because legally, it's illegal.
But still, fan subbers made various Anime-s known throughout the world through their translations.
Posted 11/13/08

Maou068 wrote:

Okay Domfortress, here's a juicy question for you. What happens when fansubs vanished from the face of the Earth? Does it solve the problem of the rapidly declining anime industries in north america? What will happen to the general audience who likes to watch anime when the fansub is gone? What about the people who are too poor to buy or a place that are too inaccessible to reach to buy DVDs?

So basically speaking, you want to make fansubs vanish from the face of the Earth without knowing the dire consequences that it might follow.

And here's another thing, why is that the anime industry in america is working with the fansubs which you hated so much? Because they knew the importance of fansubs as a mean to introduce and to measure how big the audience is before they license it. Infact, funimation is using fansubs to measure it's audience and half way to the series, they'll licensed it if they find it promising and then the fansubs group stop fansubbing to support the license holder. If you don't believe me then consider the fansub history of Gunslinger Girl: Il Teatrino which had bee recently licensed by funimation. And that's not all, they use the same tactics before they licensed Slayers Revolution...


Why should I care only about the US licensing companies, when my true concern is the entire state of anime subculture?

And if you still want your instant self-gratification from watching legitimate subbed animated advertisement streamed online, you're not the only one. But the anime industry, that includes the anime corporate sponsors, are going to need a reason for them to do that on their own, a reason that can only be generated from demands by audience like yourself. However, that's not going to happen, as long as the internet fansub groups keep supplying your demands with illegitimate fansubbed, cheap animated advertisements stolen from the anime studios. And the internet fansub groups are doing this for the anime corporate sponsors at free of charge, only to fulfill their instant self-gratifications, by acting like some presto modern day internet Robin Hood. Of course, the internet fansub groups never thought about it that way, because they don't feel their guilt by repeating the lies that they've been telling all these time.
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30 / M / CA
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Posted 11/13/08 , edited 11/13/08
You're preaching to the wrong choir. You're going to a website and community littered with people who watch and enjoy fansubs, telling them that they're all wrong. Some people may or may not agree with you but the ones that do won't care to vocally agree with you and the ones that don't will definitely voice their dissatisfaction. It's kinda like going to a Republican convention and saying you should give all parents the choice to have an abortion.

Anyway, this thread is asking to be flamed, but you people who are flaming him need not respond. If you don't agree post why you don't agree but leave remarks against each other's intelligence at the door. If you dislike the thread, flaming the thread only keeps it going longer.

Anyway if you payed attention the thread is slightly different than ones in the past, this one pertains to the legal aspect, one that I recall learning about in one of my criminal justice classes that I don't quite remember. it pertains to information gotten through illegitimate means. Basically like if you bought a stolen car or some such. This doesn't *quite* apply to fansubbing but it's the closest legal example I can think of. Because the method of uploading the raw onto the internet is illegal it is illegal for us to obtain it in any means shape or form.

However since the raw is uploaded from Japan there's a HUGE complication on what would otherwise be a simple matter, because we have to deal with intertwining copyright laws from both countries. Thus coming over to the US or outside Japan side, we're truly doing no wrong on our part, however I still feel the guilt when I watch liscensed anime (because I do and I won't lie about it)

There is however, one flaw in your initial statement Dom that I'd definitely disagree with.
"This is a free fansub" is a statement not pertaining to the legal aspects of what the fansubbers are doing, it mainly pertains to the people who bought the fansub from ebay, or at least that's my impression that I got from reading those similar messages and talking to the fansubbers I did know.

So I don't feel that statement should be used as an example to refute fansubbing in general.

In the end it's a poison we all take, and it's not the only one. How many of us don't download mp3's over the internet, or have played a rom, or downloaded winzip's crack instead of paying for it? I'll bet dollars over donuts any day that 99 out of 100 of the people on cruncy roll didn't pay for winzip.
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22 / F / where the hell am I
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Posted 11/13/08
isn't this just the same as the 2 other threads you did
yes we know the fansub groups are apparently stealing or whatever
but you can't just keep going on about it no one really cares
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24 / M / .....
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Posted 11/13/08 , edited 11/13/08
anothing bitching comment from you

you clearly need a life, and beside it doesn't really affect much whether you knew or didnt that it was a misconception that fansuber usually adress. They only state its "free", due to the fact everyone could seem to download them without paying
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30 / M / parañaque
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Posted 11/13/08
as long as i can have my anime in DVD box set.. I don't care on any FANSUB existence

But surely in most times i watched their work. Because it takes time before i can see latest anime on a nearest store( Produce > Licensed > DVD box set > Store).
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M / Crapsack World
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Posted 11/13/08 , edited 11/13/08

DomFortress wrote:


Maou068 wrote:

Okay Domfortress, here's a juicy question for you. What happens when fansubs vanished from the face of the Earth? Does it solve the problem of the rapidly declining anime industries in north america? What will happen to the general audience who likes to watch anime when the fansub is gone? What about the people who are too poor to buy or a place that are too inaccessible to reach to buy DVDs?

So basically speaking, you want to make fansubs vanish from the face of the Earth without knowing the dire consequences that it might follow.

And here's another thing, why is that the anime industry in america is working with the fansubs which you hated so much? Because they knew the importance of fansubs as a mean to introduce and to measure how big the audience is before they license it. Infact, funimation is using fansubs to measure it's audience and half way to the series, they'll licensed it if they find it promising and then the fansubs group stop fansubbing to support the license holder. If you don't believe me then consider the fansub history of Gunslinger Girl: Il Teatrino which had bee recently licensed by funimation. And that's not all, they use the same tactics before they licensed Slayers Revolution...


Why should I care only about the US licensing companies, when my true concern is the entire state of anime subculture?

And if you still want your instant self-gratification from watching legitimate subbed animated advertisement streamed online, you're not the only one. But the anime industry, that includes the anime corporate sponsors, are going to need a reason for them to do that on their own, a reason that can only be generated from demands by audience like yourself. However, that's not going to happen, as long as the internet fansub groups keep supplying your demands with illegitimate fansubbed, cheap animated advertisements stolen from the anime studios. And the internet fansub groups are doing this for the anime corporate sponsors at free of charge, only to fulfill their instant self-gratifications, by acting like some presto modern day internet Robin Hood. Of course, the internet fansub groups never thought about it that way, because they don't feel their guilt by repeating the lies that they've been telling all these time.


You are missing my point, the one who produces those DVD box sets are the american anime industries who's responsible for licensing, dubbing and editing for local and global distribution. The Japanese anime industries suffer minimum losses because subs are meaningless to them since they understand their own language. Furthermore, every self respecting companies understand the value of reduction of "cost of sales" meaning reducing the overhead cost while maximizing gross profit, this is what GoPlayGo meant when he stated "reduced cost=greater profit". Since you know about business management, then you should know something about this concept right?

Rean14 once stated that "If anime industry is really down, it should have slowed down. Is it immune to the law of Supply and Demand?". Her statement is true to the case of our discussion and if it is indeed false then why is it that they keep producing high quality anime in large scale if they know they might gain more losses than profit? Remember, that my statement is the summation of many people who tried to give their opinion to you in which you tried to dodged it.

Since you did do your homework about fasubbers then you should already know that fansubs are the one of the keystones of the anime industries. This is the reason the why the anime industries are trying to cooperate with the fansub groups in recent trends rather than exterminate them out of existance.

Lastly, this is more of a personal request than part of our discussion. Please, give this topic a rest, you've done so much damage in just the shortest amount of time.
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