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Post Reply KENSHIN -VS- ZOLO
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Posted 4/9/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


desfines07 wrote:
WAT !! how iz that ridiculous ? u can't really say that because u havn't seen alot of one piece zolo has the best moves, even know they're not realistic wat other swordsmen u know that has a sword in the mouth ? i know its hard to use a sword with your mouth but zolo got it mastered. Kenshin in the otherhand is your normal everyday samurai his moves are not as good as zolos. kenshin has good powerful moves but they're as effective as zolos. It would be a good fight but zolo would win because of his moves,speed,strenth and enderence.



Remember, I am an assistant instructor in swordsmanship. I discern weak points in posture and form on a daily basis. Analyzing and correcting technique is my job.

In RL Terms (Where speed and strength do not matter): Holding a sword in your mouth, if the sword were to be hit with even a little bit of force, it would break his teeth and most likely either dislocate or break his jaw.
When he charges like he does, for one the positioning of each sword is an extremely weak stance, it could even break his arm and he would easily be disarmed. Furthermore, there would be no strength behind the charge. Simple physics and anatomy. Such a thing would easily be defeated by side stepping and cutting to the stomach or the arms which are exposed. There would be no way to block such a thing and mid-charge one could not evade. It's a proverbial death sentence. Plus, he sheathes his sword to monolog. In such a case one could throw a kozuka blade at him and jump in and cut at his neck or belly.
Plus, as much blade-to-blade swashbuckling as he does, his swords would break before he could kill someone.


In Fantasy Terms (where speed, strength, and such do come into play): Kenshin is faster with skills that can throw earth at the enemy and such. Plus Kenshin can discern an attack better than Zolo. Zolo just rushes in with full strength. Game over.
I have watched a few battles between Zolo and an opponent on Youtube. Perhaps you can refer me to his greatest battle and I will take a second look.




You got it twisted, zolos too smart let himself fall in all that, his stance isn't weak at all hes like a fireball, he has swift attacks with both this swords and his fist. The positioning of each swords are not weak at all, just the one in his mouth.
every swordsmen rushes at full strenth lol it would be hard for kenshin to hit zolo he might not be able to hit kenshin at all, zolos defense is hard to break. all those things u mentioned in the first paragraph shoulda been targeted tords kenshin because zolos attacks would kill any swordsmen before all that stuff could happen(broken jaw,broken swords,injureys and etc...) zolo that do alot of things that kenshin can't, kenshin wouldnt be able to handle zolos crazy attacks and it would take alot out of him he'll be too tired and overworked. zolo would send kenshins sword flying in the air, everytime zolo battles all of his swords are in motion, that means a swordsmen with 1 sword woundnt stand a chance.
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Posted 4/9/08

desfines07 wrote:
You got it twisted, zolos too smart let himself fall in all that, his stance isn't weak at all hes like a fireball, he has swift attacks with both this swords and his fist. The positioning of each swords are not weak at all, just the one in his mouth.
every swordsmen rushes at full strenth lol it would be hard for kenshin to hit zolo he might not be able to hit kenshin at all, zolos defense is hard to break. all those things u mentioned in the first paragraph shoulda been targeted tords kenshin because zolos attacks would kill any swordsmen before all that stuff could happen(broken jaw,broken swords,injureys and etc...) zolo that do alot of things that kenshin can't, kenshin wouldnt be able to handle zolos crazy attacks and it would take alot out of him he'll be too tired and overworked. zolo would send kenshins sword flying in the air, everytime zolo battles all of his swords are in motion, that means a swordsmen with 1 sword woundnt stand a chance.


His stance is weak. In real life martial arts of which I have been involved in for 18 years, his stance is extremely weak. Look at his arms when he charges. No power can be generated by holding a sword like that.

Every swordsman rushes at full strength? I beg to differ. What does strength and hastiness have to do with it?

How is Zolo's defense hard to break? I told you what I would do. Simple. Just sidestep and cut at his belly. There would be no way to evade when he's charging like that, and no way to parry. It's simple fact. Physics and anatomy. He has terrible and flawed technique. A real swordsman could combat that easily with one sword. Like I said, judging flaws in technique and form and correcting them is my job and I have done it for just about 4 years now.

Then again neither Kenshin nor Zolo would stand a chance against a real swordsman.


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Posted 4/9/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


desfines07 wrote:
You got it twisted, zolos too smart let himself fall in all that, his stance isn't weak at all hes like a fireball, he has swift attacks with both this swords and his fist. The positioning of each swords are not weak at all, just the one in his mouth.
every swordsmen rushes at full strenth lol it would be hard for kenshin to hit zolo he might not be able to hit kenshin at all, zolos defense is hard to break. all those things u mentioned in the first paragraph shoulda been targeted tords kenshin because zolos attacks would kill any swordsmen before all that stuff could happen(broken jaw,broken swords,injureys and etc...) zolo that do alot of things that kenshin can't, kenshin wouldnt be able to handle zolos crazy attacks and it would take alot out of him he'll be too tired and overworked. zolo would send kenshins sword flying in the air, everytime zolo battles all of his swords are in motion, that means a swordsmen with 1 sword woundnt stand a chance.


His stance is weak. In real life martial arts of which I have been involved in for 18 years, his stance is extremely weak. Look at his arms when he charges. No power can be generated by holding a sword like that.

Every swordsman rushes at full strength? I beg to differ. What does strength and hastiness have to do with it?

How is Zolo's defense hard to break? I told you what I would do. Simple. Just sidestep and cut at his belly. There would be no way to evade when he's charging like that, and no way to parry. It's simple fact. Physics and anatomy. He has terrible and flawed technique. A real swordsman could combat that easily with one sword. Like I said, judging flaws in technique and form and correcting them is my job and I have done it for just about 4 years now.

Then again neither Kenshin nor Zolo would stand a chance against a real swordsman.




yea mabye your rite u know stuff that i dont know. n wats your idea of real swordsmen
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Posted 4/9/08
Someone trained in koryu bujutsu with atleast a Chuden rank. I'm an Okuden which is one above Chuden. Above Okuden is a Menkyo Kaiden which is a license of transmission. A teaching license that is.
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Posted 4/9/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:

Someone trained in koryu bujutsu with atleast a Chuden rank. I'm an Okuden which is one above Chuden. Above Okuden is a Menkyo Kaiden which is a license of transmission. A teaching license that is.


So your basicly a real swordsmen
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Posted 4/9/08
I could be. "Swordsman" is a title defined by someone who is skilled and learned in the practice of swordsmanship. If you go by this definition, I am a swordsman.

There is another definition that dictates that a swordsman is one who is not only skilled and learned but is more-so defined by the practice itself in that someone who actively uses a sword in a combat situation. If you go by this definition, there are no more swordsmen.
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Posted 4/9/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:

I could be. "Swordsman" is a title defined by someone who is skilled and learned in the practice of swordsmanship. If you go by this definition, I am a swordsman.

There is another definition that dictates that a swordsman is one who is not only skilled and learned but is more-so defined by the practice itself in that someone who actively uses a sword in a combat situation. If you go by this definition, there are no more swordsmen.


can u do cool stuff, like cut someone head off with one swing or jump up high and split someone in haf u know wat im talkin bout, the stuff they be doin in movies
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Posted 4/9/08
There's no jumping or spinning or flipping involved.

The more flashy an art the less effective. The more "boring" an art, the more effective.

I could probably cut a head off with one swing, but I don't want to test that out anytime soon.

I do tameshigiri with rolled up soaked goza with a 1 inch thick oak dowel in the middle. It mimics the resistance of cutting into a human body.
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Posted 4/9/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:

There's no jumping or spinning or flipping involved.

The more flashy an art the less effective. The more "boring" an art, the more effective.

I could probably cut a head off with one swing, but I don't want to test that out anytime soon.

I do tameshigiri with rolled up soaked goza with a 1 inch thick oak dowel in the middle. It mimics the resistance of cutting into a human body.


but everyone likes flashy, i bet if 4 guys ran up to u with swords and chains you wont be able to take em out.
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Posted 4/9/08
I don't like flashy. So no, not everyone likes flashy.
I find it silly and stupid.

The Muso Shinden ryu Iaijutsu curriculum actually has kata to combat up to 5 combatants in succession and strategies to deal with up to 10 by individual.

It depends. If they are not the most skilled, I am sure it wouldn't be too hard to take them down.

In swordsmanship, a swordsman uses ma-ai to his advantage when dealing with multiple opponents so that one can take them on one by one, not allowing yourself to be surrounded. Even so, the aforementioned curriculum states the worst case scenario with the subject surrounded. It's not that hard.

It is potentially easier to deal with multiple opponents than a single opponent if you take into consideration principles such as ma-ai and such.
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Posted 4/10/08
y dont u like flashy, i know they're not that effective but some are
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Posted 4/10/08
I see no point to it. Before I was educated in martial arts, I thought the more flashy meant the more effective. Though now it just doesn't impress me. I look and find it to be silly and I find myself in great disdain over it. It's funny.

I'd rather see the bone crunching visceral brutality of a real effective martial art.
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Posted 4/10/08
the point of flashy is to make the swordsmen look good. I like maritial arts too, do u do any of that ?
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Posted 4/10/08

desfines07 wrote:
the point of flashy is to make the swordsmen look good. I like maritial arts too, do u do any of that ?


A swordsman has no business trying to look good. It is about defeating the enemy as quickly as possible before he defeats you. If you try and look good and act flashy, it's an easy way to get killed.

...? Martial Arts? I though we were talking about martial arts.

Well yes I do other martial arts. Been in it since about 1989/1990; that's almost 19 years.

I am an assistant instructor in Muso Shinden ryu Iaijutsu (Which also encompasses Kenjutsu and Battojutsu) and Kito ryu Jujutsu (Which is a hybrid art consisting of grappling, pins, throws, ground fighting, joint manipulation(small and large), strikes to vital points, strikes to nerve points, and methods of killing the opponent when he is on the ground.

Aside from that I have studied in American Kempo, Kyokushin (Full Contact) Kaikan(or Karatedo), Kodokan Judo, Boxing, Kickboxing(JK and MT) (Full Contact), Bataireacht, Yagyu Shinkage ryu Kenjutsu, Classical Fencing, Jeet Kune Do, and Aikido.
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Posted 4/10/08

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:


desfines07 wrote:
the point of flashy is to make the swordsmen look good. I like maritial arts too, do u do any of that ?


A swordsman has no business trying to look good. It is about defeating the enemy as quickly as possible before he defeats you. If you try and look good and act flashy, it's an easy way to get killed.

...? Martial Arts? I though we were talking about martial arts.


swordsmenship and martial arts are not that alike
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