First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
Regarding Crunchyroll and the visions of anime in 2009.
Posted 11/21/08

Baka-Master wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Baka-Master wrote:


redhairedsamurai wrote:

start watching avatar-the last air bender, great anime. the best thing about it is that you don't have to waste your time reading the subtitles because it's English dubbed. i hope all animes are English dubbed so i won't have a hard time reading the subtitles, that makes me wanna focus more on the story and the content itself.


lol why it should be dubbed == if it is dubbed it doesn't feel like it is anime and the voices are screwed and they are always cutting the best parts away >__>


Why can't I demand real acting and drama, in a spoken language that I can understand and appreciate for my anime? The kind of real acting and drama, that's approved by the original anime series' creators, the anime studios, when they transferred the copyright for their work to licensing companies, thus to ensure their copyrighted materials are 100% legit and protected?


lol thats a point ^^ but i am meaning why it should be english?? look at those anime who are licensed and hear those screwed voices? o_o


I completely agree with you there. American voices to anime..most don't work. Most are out of work actors and actresses who do a week long 'gig' and have no idea about vocal inflections when comes to anime. They never went to voice acting schools and so forth.

Now with that said, there are some that are indeed good and the actors/actresses researched and learned or have a general like for anime. So even I admit that there are some good dubbed. But most directors and produces of dubbed anime just don't give a shit enough to assign the correct voices to the characters.

To many times stories are changed, to fit the anime to 'our' way of thinking or our language. Little idiosyncrasies in language that comes from countries background. Slurping of noodles are considered polite in Japanese culture, this gets changed in American dubbed to Eat the soba noodles through your nose.

Often times cultural idiosyncrasies are changed. And I'm sorry it's ok for American Cartoons, but if I'm watching Anime I want to feel the Japanese culture and learn of new things. Not change the scripts to suit American tastes.

In my opinion, and my opinion only. I seem to be able to read the subs and watch the show at the same time. Maybe it's a learned or special ability of mine. Or maybe, I learned to do something in school besides run my my mouth and hang out with my friends?
Posted 11/21/08

DomFortress wrote:


Baka-Master wrote:


redhairedsamurai wrote:

start watching avatar-the last air bender, great anime. the best thing about it is that you don't have to waste your time reading the subtitles because it's English dubbed. i hope all animes are English dubbed so i won't have a hard time reading the subtitles, that makes me wanna focus more on the story and the content itself.


lol why it should be dubbed == if it is dubbed it doesn't feel like it is anime and the voices are screwed and they are always cutting the best parts away >__>


Why can't I demand real acting and drama, in a spoken language that I can understand and appreciate for my anime? The kind of real acting and drama, that's approved by the original anime series' creators, the anime studios, when they transferred the copyright for their work to licensing companies, thus to ensure their copyrighted materials are 100% legit and protected?


Because it's not always 100% directly subbed or dubbed. Watch for instance a Children's anime Angelic Layer. Watch it dubbed and subbed. One and just a small one is where Ich-chan tells his subordinate, his punishment for something was to eat Udon without making any noise. Eating Soba or Udon in Japan is ment to be slurped nosily. The Cultural reasoning is because your giving respect to the people who made the noodles and by showing them that it is tasty and delicious. The dubbed version of said anime changed that to 'Eat Udon through your nose!'

It may be Legit and protected, but thats it. Everything else is mostly lost in the translation. Because simply people like you do not care about cultural learning of a different culture. All they care about is some minute entertainment. Legit..Protected..ok fine..but at the expense of anything that made it Japanese. Good job, Dom..your one of those who seek to get rid of the Japanese in anime..to make it our own. That I'm totally against. Anime is Anime because it is about a different culture. Something different about our own. Just put out the cash to make American Cartoons. Then you do not have to worry about it.

Isn't that what they did with Avatar? It's so much copies Japanese Anime, that you have kids here believing it is anime, instead of a Cartoon from Nick.
2449 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F / school. stuck here!
Offline
Posted 11/21/08

DarthVantos wrote:


ichido_naru wrote:

(so many words...)
i dont really understand it 100% but....
hmm.. i'm not a japanese(though i am asian), and anime is not my culture, and yes, i can LIVE without anime, (since i'm not a fanatic, though it'll be kind of depressing.. since i like it a lot...)
but i really want to watch it, since in my country, the favoured anime must be completed be4 they show it in here. and the worst part is that its dubbed. though i have animax in my tv, its showing less interesting animes, even animes that i dont like anymore.... only a few are good NOW. (like Xxxholic, KKM 2,etc.) and these are just repetitions.
to me, original Anime DVDs in my country are really expensive, and are pretty hard to find (i mean if you want to search for AN anime. if you want random anime, then its pretty easy..)
and thats exactly why i'm so thankful 4 fansubbers.


how big are u boobs?


huh?
Posted 11/21/08 , edited 11/21/08

redhairedsamurai wrote:

start watching avatar-the last air bender, great anime. the best thing about it is that you don't have to waste your time reading the subtitles because it's English dubbed. i hope all animes are English dubbed so i won't have a hard time reading the subtitles, that makes me wanna focus more on the story and the content itself.


Avatar the Last Airbender is not an English dub anime because English is the original language that was voiced.
Posted 11/21/08

HayatellAyasaki wrote:


!!!Welcome to Anime!!! Yay!!!

Sorry, I did that on purpose.

A couple of concepts in the spoiler for those interested.



First of all:



To mods: yes there is a thread created by DomFortress with the anime subculture in the title. No, it is not closely related to anime subculture as a fact of information, but as a personal opinion of that user. This is not a duplicate.


My knowledge of the matter was simply subjective in most cases up until a couple of weeks ago. But that doesn’t necessarily means we can stay ignorant about it for the rest of their lives.

This is not a conspiracy, or any kind of propaganda. People is free to express themselves, and also people is free to have second opinions and be aware of many things, that is called freedom of expression. So think about this warning before going insulting me. Also, I don't want to brainwash or impose my ideas or facts into others.


I took the liberty to ask for a good explanation of many people that have a certain degree of knowledge of the matter. I also took the liberty to put much information into a condensed few with the intention of easy understanding by the people.


Again I work for no anime company, no anime site with any kind of loyalty towards any side. (anime companies, and fans.) If anybody else wants to contribute with information or opinions about the subject please feel free to do so. Also if you state an opinion with few words but no objectiveness then also support your opinion with objective facts at least. That said and since nobody else has the guts to post this, here we go:

Anime subculture: Does it even exist in our culture and continent?

It does in a way and a certain degree, but instead of subculture I would call it “fanaticism.” The anime subculture started out in Japan and slowly spreading across the seas thanks to the internet by many, yet small groups. However many people come out with the misconception of anime subculture as part of the internet anime needs of many of the fanatics, like many of our Crunchyrollers here.

The anime market started out like any other, except that it gained popularity within Japan pretty fast. It also came out to be even more popular thanks to some groups of fanatics across the world with the creation of “fan subbing groups,” later denominated by some individuals as criminals.

Whether their motives where noble or mischievous, or not people can’t deny the fact that anime wouldn’t have been accessible to the rest of the world thanks to those groups. Been called criminals or popular heroes, these people are normal people like you, and me with lives of their own, problems of their own and many things to do other than come online to waste some time.

These people used their time and effort to do what the industry never did. Well that goes beyond the point. There was not anime in our continent other than some extremely popular anime that came from Japan thanks to some visionaries, some individuals and companies that saw an opportunity in our market. Such the case of Dragon ball, Sailor moon, and Astroboy. Nobody can’t deny they weren’t wrong, because any game for example, with the names Dragon, and ball in it, sells like it was canned sex.

I am not justifying the actions of the fansubbers, because they weren’t obviously doing something good, but they didn’t commit a crime. However they offered an entertainment drug to us, the wrong audience.

So what is the main audience of anime back then up to the twentieth century? The answer is simple and logical: Japan. The public to whom it was oriented was Japan itself. A public that assimilated anime as part of their lives as time passed by and soon enough made out of it what people tend to call ‘the anime subculture.’

Subculture(anime) that also carried many bad things within. It was the origin of Hentai, word that literally means ‘abnormality’ referring to sex, or perversion. Basically a part of the subculture known as anime, the hentai refers to the sexually explicit group of pornographic material, such as video games, anime and manga.

All popularized thanks to the many Otakus, that not generalizing, are many individuals who idolize such perverted part of the anime subculture. Not all Otakus do that of course, however it is true that many do, all thanks to anime as well. Another example of how something good can be turned into something bad.

Otakus: are overly obsessive fans, but nothing like that has been seen in America our Europe like it is frequent in Japan. Many of them obsessed with hetai, lolicon and many other perversions that have nothing to do with our culture in the way of animation. Do you think it is logic to want to have sex with anime children? I don’t. Otakus, referring to hentai are basically other product of the anime subculture in the people, so much that hentai itself is a subculture of the anime subculture.

So what about anime in our continent? To be clear, anime subculture doesn’t really exist in our culture. Why? You don’t see anime characters in the package of your instant food, do you?

Anime might be considered as a subculture, it means a derivate of their culture by Japanese people, but not by anybody else. That is simply the idea of certain individuals who wish to popularize and promote it for purely monetary purposes.

Yes, I am pointing out at the anime studios. Clearly like anybody else who has the balls to say it. It’s sad, but it’s the truth. I however have to admit they are doing something to probably change that image now, but those might be simple appearances.

The anime industry never saw us as a potential market but until the late nineties. They also never saw us with the same eyes they see Japanese audiences, simply because we are not an audience, we are a market.

What does this means? This means they are viewers, we are consumers. They offer anime via broadcasting in Japan. They offer us expensive DVD sets, that are not only poor in quality and useless material (who wants shitty dubs? Another excuse to make us think that is why it is so expensive), but also old anime from five to seven years before.

“The anime we get, and since the beginning did, was that anime that stopped been that popular in Japan. Why not squeeze some more money out of it? Let’s buy it in the American market as DVDs, afterall they never saw these series.” Can you imagine that scenario? It sounds pretty real, and logically possibly business-talking.

People interested with anime are merely fans, but not die-hard fans like Otakus in Japan. Otakus in America are simply fans, people who like anime and some others that think they can’t live without it. (Another misconception of the supposed assimilation and strength-gaining anime subculture in America.) But you know what? We can live without anime, because it is not part of our culture, it is just part of the Japanese culture. And no matter how hard some people try, they will never be Japanese.

Another thing to thank for to anime, huh? Wapanneses. Look for Wappanese in the forum’s search engine for further detail.

The insistence of certain individuals to make us think anime is part of our lives is only backed by the many children who made anime a way of escaping real life. For X or Y reasons they think of anime as an alternate world. I’ve seen the many messages in these forums claiming how much they wouldn’t want to live, or would die out of the lack of anime. People wondering if they could be anime characters, people expressing their ‘love’ towards anime characters.

“Are anime guys better than real life guys?”
“Are anime girls better than real life girls?”
“What if you lived in an anime world?”


Are they for real? There is a limit to fanaticism, not to say to reality and fantasy. It seems anime has crossed the thin line between anime and reality. Especially in children, who delude more often thanks to the obsessive need of anime in their lives.

Now, there is the matter and question, although this thread is not specific about it, I believe it is necessary to point out. Crunchyroll seems to be ready for a change, and become a commercial site for anime. Subbed anime won’t be accepted as of January 2009.

People should just make to the idea and accept it. And the options in anime will get thinner, people will only get the anime of those studios partner of CR in this campaign.
This also make question this. To the star users, and the ones that contribute(monetarily) to this site. Are you, star users, keep on contributing to this
Crunchyroll even if your favorite shows aren’t allowed here?


Let me elaborate. Are you willing to pay for old anime, and just a few new ones?

People don’t have to answer if they don’t want to. I, myself am not a star user, not because I want, but because I can’t afford to pay when I barely watch some anime now, and when anime will become more expensive than a pair of shoes. But this is subjective, I first came to Crunchyroll simply because of Gundam00, they removed it, okay, I didn’t complain. Now I am here just because of the forums and one of my favorite groups.

Potential consumers or not? We fans are potential consumers in the eyes of anime industry, but as somebody else pointed it out in another forum: a potential consumer isn’t obliged to buy anime products, furthermore, you are not obliged to buy anime products, more in specific anime DVD or games if you don’t even know what you are buying.
Some people will allege about preview sites and review sites. But this if actually funny, because 95% of those sites are running, or supported/sponsored by anime companies. Hell even our most trustworthy “anime news network” ANN is been supported by anime companies. How can we believe in that?

Or are they going to say (anime preview, review sites): “Oh no, anime X isn’t exactly good. It uses a certain hype to get more adepts, but the plot is actually generic, poor characters and horrible art, please don’t support it by buying it.” Of course not.

Ultimately we end up buying a DVD boxsets, which front art is actually good, the description sounds okay. But once we watch it turns out to be total shit, what can we do about it? It costs us a month of savings just to realized how crappy it was.

I have imported many DVDs and VHS of Dragon ball Z, and Saint Seiya. I paid them off with my savings and hard work. I believe real fans, and I am talking about the ones that can afford it do that. But I wouldn’t have done so without watching the product first, why did I buy those? Because it was the only anime we have at hand since many, many years, at least in my case. I wouldn’t have bought some weird anime that I don’t know a thing about just to realize how bad it was after watching it.

Especially with the economy in our continent, not just the United States of America (since almost the entire continent depends on the economy of the superpower of our continent.) How is it like to going to venture into the fanaticism of hardcore anime, anime subculture, if it is going to be more expensive than what you, or your parents can afford?
Sure this will help the anime, more precisely Japanese economy, but not our economy. I am not saying you can’t and you shouldn’t. I am simply stating some facts that you need to know before accepting anime 100% sure of it.

This takes me back to the otakus, the original ones from Japan. They spend thousands in anime figures, posters, t-shirts, clocks, plushies, you name it. But what are those goods for? They just waste space in your room? What? Will you exhibit your collection of expensive PVC dolls to your friends? Then what?

Maybe anime is a proud subculture in Japan and Asia, but our culture seems to contradict the possible integration of anime into our lives.

What will the anime industry do to promote anime as a subculture of good things?
How will they?
What good things can we get out of the anime subculture other than a way to waste money?
Why do they see us as lecherous beings, when it is clear that less than 15% of the profit comes out of anime itself?


Some of those questions…don’t expect them to be answered. Because the people involved with anime won’t answer them, and if they do, it will be subjective, believe me.
This anime carries bad things within, even if we are too blind or stubborn to accept it. It also has a couple of good things, subjectively talking, entertainment and a way to distraction but nothing more.

It was said several times and explained how much anime studios spend, and how few they get in return. But as an adept of economy and a former student of such matter in college and with a personal teacher, I can tell how things are. Because they are not different in the anime industry.

Anime studios produce it-> they sell or offer it to T.V. stations-> sponsors pay for their product to be announced or advertised during the show->people watch the show and the ads->people buy the products advertised in the anime show = Everybody earns money.
It’s stupid to blame it on the low sales of DVDs. Also it is stupid to say the sales and anime itself depends on the market outside Japan. We are/were not their market, again, it was Japan itself. If we were their market then anime would be aired in Japanese, English, Spanish, etc. But no, we were just outsiders.

Now that we are potential consumers(thanks to the popularity of anime online due the fansubs) we are seen as lecherous people or potential consumers, only now.

In conclusion, and this last paragraph been subjective (my own opinion.) There is no place for anime subculture in our culture as in the way that it will be recognized as one by others than otakus, or wapanese themselves, the real world. It might have a place online, a place that is dark and not many people will be willing to be part of. A place where just a selected bunch will enjoy life the best way they can, or simply waste their time since it is their own life. But not in our society like it is in Japan’s society. Our original culture, politics, and morals are different from the Eastern.

Opinions, points of view? Feel free to discuss.

Excuse my lack of googleness, leave that to the trolls.









For those questioning "why should I listen this guy?"
Here is my answer: You don't have to listen to me if you don't want to, but people is meant to know other opinions on the matter.

Of course there are always those who stand still on one side, and one opinion trying to oppose it into others. For those willing to label me, insult me, and even accuse me, here are some of my answers:


.....I'm sorry I do not have the attention span to read that. Can you dumb it down for me so that it could just fit into a paragraph?

9584 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / In Memphis, with...
Offline
Posted 11/21/08

sos_dragonmoop wrote:

.....I'm sorry I do not have the attention span to read that. Can you dumb it down for me so that it could just fit into a paragraph?




Sure, can you please put my first post into a spoiler tag, it floods the forum.

Basically the entire thing is a perspective and explanation about the anime subculture from Japan, it's good and bad things in contrast with out own culture. It also explains some causes of it's failure in our continent and the opposing yet parallel "fanaticism for anime." With could easily be our conception of anime.
Posted 11/21/08 , edited 11/21/08
Response to:
Otakus: are overly obsessive fans, but nothing like that has been seen in America our Europe like it is frequent in Japan.

There are some rather obsessive fans in the west if you think about it ,people wanting to look like their favorite celebrity and even at time's getting plastic surgery to fufill that desire while catching up with the latest on their favorite star on the celebrity gossip shows , comic fanboys , Trekkies, Star War fans, a good chunk of NRA members, religious fantaics, I could list more and more, enough to show that Japan may have the highest concentration of Otakus but when it comes to obsession the west wins in many categories.
17344 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Crapsack World
Offline
Posted 11/21/08
Wow, it seems that Dom is getting worse by the day!
Posted 11/21/08 , edited 11/21/08
Response:
This is not a misconception in the context of anime. Hentai is not a respectful word, even in Japan. It is also one of the bad things that anime subculture carries along, and no matter how many arguments people state, it certainly won't help in the inclusion of anime in our culture.

So what is anime supposed to do? Disney it up to meet your desires?. And anime is already included in our culture hentai with it. Saying Hentai is a bad thing is opening a door to freedom of speech, rights many people hold and exercise and one of which I am a big fan. Humans should beable to express themselves in any way they want provided it is not disturbing others.
9584 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / In Memphis, with...
Offline
Posted 11/21/08

superninjaboy wrote:

Response to:
Otakus: are overly obsessive fans, but nothing like that has been seen in America our Europe like it is frequent in Japan.

There are some rather obsessive fans in the west if you think about it ,people wanting to look like their favorite celebrity and even at time's getting plastic surgery to fufill that desire while catching up with the latest on their favorite star on the celebrity gossip shows , comic fanboys , Trekkies, Star War fans, a good chunk of NRA members, religious fantaics, I could list more and more, enough to show that Japan may have the highest concentration of Otakus but when it comes to obsession the west wins in many categories.


That is exactly what I think. Obsessive people lies everywhere, and your point is right, the west wins in many categories, but Otakus in Japan are unique from over there, it's lame to see Japanese wannabe anime fanatics in America.
9584 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / In Memphis, with...
Offline
Posted 11/21/08

superninjaboy wrote:

Response:
This is not a misconception in the context of anime. Hentai is not a respectful word, even in Japan. It is also one of the bad things that anime subculture carries along, and no matter how many arguments people state, it certainly won't help in the inclusion of anime in our culture.

So what is anime supposed to do? Disney it up to meet your desires?. And anime is already included in our culture hentai with it. Saying Hentai is a bad thing is opening a door to freedom of speech, rights many people hold and exercise and one of which I am a big fan. Humans should beable to express themselves in any way they want provided it is not disturbing others.



Still, hentai is not acceptable in the context of our culture morals. I am not saying Japan has low moral, or trying to insult Japanese by any means. But anime carries hentai all along, because hentai has become a part of anime, sadly. It even bothers me, it is a form of expression, but definitely not in the standards of our morals, sadly again.
2220 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / Figment
Offline
Posted 11/21/08
Very well elaborate.
Posted 11/21/08

HayatellAyasaki wrote:


superninjaboy wrote:

Response to:
Otakus: are overly obsessive fans, but nothing like that has been seen in America our Europe like it is frequent in Japan.

There are some rather obsessive fans in the west if you think about it ,people wanting to look like their favorite celebrity and even at time's getting plastic surgery to fufill that desire while catching up with the latest on their favorite star on the celebrity gossip shows , comic fanboys , Trekkies, Star War fans, a good chunk of NRA members, religious fantaics, I could list more and more, enough to show that Japan may have the highest concentration of Otakus but when it comes to obsession the west wins in many categories.


That is exactly what I think. Obsessive people lies everywhere, and your point is right, the west wins in many categories, but Otakus in Japan are unique from over there, it's lame to see Japanese wannabe anime fanatics in America.


I guess.
9747 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M
Offline
Posted 11/21/08

ichido_naru wrote:


DarthVantos wrote:


ichido_naru wrote:

(so many words...)
i dont really understand it 100% but....
hmm.. i'm not a japanese(though i am asian), and anime is not my culture, and yes, i can LIVE without anime, (since i'm not a fanatic, though it'll be kind of depressing.. since i like it a lot...)
but i really want to watch it, since in my country, the favoured anime must be completed be4 they show it in here. and the worst part is that its dubbed. though i have animax in my tv, its showing less interesting animes, even animes that i dont like anymore.... only a few are good NOW. (like Xxxholic, KKM 2,etc.) and these are just repetitions.
to me, original Anime DVDs in my country are really expensive, and are pretty hard to find (i mean if you want to search for AN anime. if you want random anime, then its pretty easy..)
and thats exactly why i'm so thankful 4 fansubbers.


how big are ur boobs?


huh?


How big are ur boobs?
Posted 11/21/08

HayatellAyasaki wrote:


superninjaboy wrote:

Response:
This is not a misconception in the context of anime. Hentai is not a respectful word, even in Japan. It is also one of the bad things that anime subculture carries along, and no matter how many arguments people state, it certainly won't help in the inclusion of anime in our culture.

So what is anime supposed to do? Disney it up to meet your desires?. And anime is already included in our culture hentai with it. Saying Hentai is a bad thing is opening a door to freedom of speech, rights many people hold and exercise and one of which I am a big fan. Humans should beable to express themselves in any way they want provided it is not disturbing others.



Still, hentai is not acceptable in the context of our culture morals. I am not saying Japan has low moral, or trying to insult Japanese by any means. But anime carries hentai all along, because hentai has become a part of anime, sadly. It even bothers me, it is a form of expression, but definitely not in the standards of our morals, sadly again.


Well we do have different moral stances on this issue, I find hentai to be harmless compared to the porn industry in the west which can have some questionable practices and it is a far bigger industry, that at times can try to help the little guy (Larry Flynt and Hustler) or take his money. I would say the pendulum swings both ways on this issue The main point is as long as no one is getting hurt it is alright in my books.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.