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Was Slavery all that bad?
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28 / M / California
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Posted 11/26/08

LemonyPanda wrote:
why bring prostitution into this? and i would rather lose my free will and live happily (and maybe save up some money to buy my own freedom) than be "free" but not be able to do anything in life except for risk my life daily for a small paycheck that can barely get food for my already starving family.


You say this just 'cause you haven't been through it. Live happily?

You get annoyed at your parents for trying to tell you what to do. Multiply that by a thousand.
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Posted 11/26/08
So, if I get fat, does that mean I should sue McDonalds? No one is forcing me to go there.


good point!!

Posted 11/26/08

ShroomInferno wrote:

See, I am pretty sure that the African Americans of today are rather happy of what they got..or would they want to use tree leafs when having their period?
If I were in Africa, it doesn't mean that I would be in the jungle using tree leaves. Not all of Africa looks like a set from a Tarzan movie.


ShroomInferno wrote:
Saying that something bad had also a good outcome ain't racist.
Trying to justify it certainly is.


ShroomInferno wrote:
It's just that thanks to the need of slaves, those African people got transported to the New Continent, the start was surely not nice, but the end effect of this whole issue has turned out to be rather nice, don't you think so too?
It has turned out nice for whom? Not for the slaves, and not for those who lived through segregation.
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Posted 11/26/08

ShroomInferno wrote:


IrisChan7 wrote:

1. Forcing someone to do something against their will is never good no matter how you look at it. It's a violation of human rights.
2. Even if the slaves were never whipped, beaten, or raped, which they were frequently, it doesn't mean that it was good. Slavery would have a deep psychological impact on the individual. Slaves were not just hurt physically, but emotionally and psychologically. We can still see the "slave mentality" in people today, even though people are not subjected to the lifestyle
3.


LemonyPanda wrote:

MOST masters treated their slaves pretty well (they didn't let them do dangerous work because slaves are property and don't want to lose value in their property)


Naturally they could only hurt their slaves to a degree so they wouldn't kill them. That shouldn't make you assume that they lived in well either. To say so is rediculous. Masters left their slaves looking like this regularly. Is this treating them well.


4. You are racist for even trying to justify this barbaric act. Read Incidents in a Life of a Slaver Girl, and tell me that slavery's not so bad.


That's happening TODAY in Africa...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/inside-mugabes-torture-camps-beaten-maimed-and-poisoned-with-weedkiller-857659.html





Women...there...when having menstruations..are using tree leafs. No sanitary pads ---> infections, and higher chances to get HIV, and what not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3OHVTRoEAY&eurl=http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/date/2006/05

http://www.sokwanele.com/thisiszimbabwe/archives/405

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/twelve-bodies-found-zimbabwe-victims-tortured-20080620

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QMlt4Pc5iI

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2008/1031/1225321589349.html

See, I am pretty sure that the African Americans of today are rather happy of what they got..or would they want to use tree leafs when having their period?

Saying that something bad had also a good outcome ain't racist. Nobody here says the act of slavery in itself is "good". It's just that thanks to the need of slaves, those African people got transported to the New Continent, the start was surely not nice, but the end effect of this whole issue has turned out to be rather nice, don't you think so too? At least they don't have to use tree leafs, and can chat with us via internet, etc.


Bluntly said, in their own continent they'd be most probably treated worse, and living under a lot worse circumstances. Women, children - no rights. Women get regularly raped there, there is even an african tribe where the boys are forced to give a blowjob to the older men, etc. And all the plagues that come with when you live in a third world country. There is just too much shit to list, believe it or not.





You've got a valid point there: Africans are having a hard time compared to African-American nowadays. Yes, objectively correct. However that is just a convenient way to support the facts in this context which basically means the end justifies everything.

So African slaves in America were optimistic about their future? I wonder. Because it is obvious they knew their children would have a good future in this country, maybe some did, but the vastly majority didn't give a shit, because they were in a nightmare: living things, working and doing whatever they were told to.

How would you feel in such situation? I mean the future is uncertain. Hm, nobody here ever mentioned this? My lord, people sure like to spit nonsensical crap without having a full picture of the matter.

They were treated well? I agree that the Hollywood image of 'slavery' can't be taken into consideration in this, and most cases. It is laughable. But one thing is for sure they (slaves) weren't treated all that well like the Op thinks.

Supported by facts: slavery affects not only the body (physically,) but also the mind of the person. Did you know stress is bad for your health and mental health? It is bad, no matter how good the person is treated. I wonder if some people would still defend this fact if it were the other way around: Africans enslaving your own race (Asian, Hispanic, etc.)




To the Op: I see you have a point there. Unlike the many enraged people here, who I dare to say have no basis whatsoever in mind other than their feelings to disagree, I have a question for you. No, it is more like a proposal.

I offer you a good life. I will take good care of you. Nothing is going to happen, three foods every day, and a roof over you with a bed, not the best bed, but you can sleep there I assure you. All you have to do in return is become my slave; you know work eighteen hours a day, do whatever work I say...actually do whatever I say without talking-back or even look at me with bad-eyes. What kind of slave you ask? Just slave, my property. I am offering you a good deal, in fact this will make you happy, don't deny it since you stated it.

Oh I just forgot to mention a couple of things.
1. You will lose your freedom, not that it matters.
2. You will lose your status of 'human being,' and be just a 'thing.' You know, worst than an animal, but it doesn't matter because you don't care about that, you will have a good life.
3. You don't have pride; I forbid you to have one.
4. I will treat you well, like my property you will be, but that doesn't mean my good friends that look after my slaves, my valuable workers, my brothers, my doctor, my lawyer, and all the rest of the people I know will treat you well. Oh yes some of them like to fuck my slaves, since we are good friends, you know as long as I don't get to know it; it's cool, right?
5.You do whatever I want, and I will hurt you on a whim because I am your master.

Well, those things doesn't really matter since you will have a good life, and a good future. Because your children, and grandchildren will have a great life in my country. That is when that happens in a hundred years, maybe, well who knows? Doesn't really matter.

So, what do you say? Do you accept my offer? Or will you bring down all this charade of a reasoning you are putting up here?
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Posted 11/26/08 , edited 11/26/08

asamiueto wrote:

HayatellAyasaki wrote:




Africans are having a hard time compared to African-American nowadays. Yes, objectively correct. However that is just a convenient way to support the facts in this context which basically means the end justifies everything.


lol, you mean being born with hiv in a cesspool waiting to die (you call: having a hard time) compared to actually having a chance to live and thrive (maybe even become president of the usa ).



So African slaves in America were optimistic about their future? I wonder. Because it is obvious they knew their children would have a good future in this country, maybe some did, but the vastly majority didn't give a shit, because they were in a nightmare: living things, working and doing whatever they were told to.


the law at that time - they were considered property.
property doesn't think (regardless of location).
at least not in a manner that matters to the owner.



They were treated well? I agree that the Hollywood image of 'slavery' can't be taken into consideration in this, and most cases. It is laughable. But one thing is for sure they (slaves) weren't treated all that well like the Op thinks.

i would wager slaves in america were treated much better than slaves in africa.
not a hard one to figure out.



Supported by facts: slavery affects not only the body (physically,) but also the mind of the person. Did you know stress is bad for your health and mental health? It is bad, no matter how good the person is treated. I wonder if some people would still defend this fact if it were the other way around: Africans enslaving your own race (Asian, Hispanic, etc.)

again, property doesn't have physical/mental ailments that matter to the owner.

as far as african blacks enslaving my race.......lol, i'm surprised they can enslave livestock.





^ You use the laws of those times to justify an idiotic idea of the present? Ha ha, well done. I am well aware of such laws, if I didn't knew shit I wouldn't be here. Now, I am not trying to mock you, but using a fact of the past, that is not valid nowadays to support a 'theoretic thought' of the present is simply nonsense.

"I say interracial marriages go against all morals, because the laws back then prohibit and says so!"


Whether the result was good or not for the person that is nothing another person can decide. It wasn't immediate either. Some descendants of slaves might be living a good life now, but I am pretty sure the slaves didn't care about their grandchildren since it was most certainly unsure if they would have a future or not.

Property doesn't have physical or mental ailments that matter to the owner, another reason to say slavery wasn't even a humanitarian act. "Can somebody say slavery was an act of compassion or save to those poor Africans who suffer, and would suffer in the future staying in their home"?

Well that is part of freedom; the right of a human being to decide and choose whether they stay in home, or move to another place they would call home (I know restrictions in modern times, but this is not about modern times). We choose, that is our right, therefore "freedom." We don't know if our decisions will lead us to a good, or a bad future, but that is part of been a human.

It's convenient to say slavery "saved" many Africans from their horrible future in Africa. Very convenient, I just lol.
Posted 11/26/08

HayatellAyasaki wrote:




the law of that time is just that and nothing more.
they were just property.period.
you asked how they felt about being slaves etc etc.....
you were told - it doesn't matter they were property.

i never stated slavery was a humanitarian act.

i don't care about their suffering or anything about them.

yeah, the bright africa.......lol. perhaps you can conveniently send them back to their lovely home?



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Posted 11/26/08

asamiueto wrote:


HayatellAyasaki wrote:




the law of that time is just that and nothing more.
they were just property.period.
you asked how they felt about being slaves etc etc.....
you were told - it doesn't matter they were property.

i never stated slavery was a humanitarian act.

i don't care about their suffering or anything about them.

yeah, the bright africa.......lol. perhaps you can conveniently send them back to their lovely home?






Perhaps I was talking about the main idea of this thread; that also happen to be the idea of the OP. I don't remember saying you 'said it'?

Well, I don't mean to be rude. I just thought "This been a serious discussion there will be serious people," it's not the case it seems. Whatever you say asamiueto lol.
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Posted 11/26/08
how about defining slaves first before going on with your arguments..

if we're talking about the black who were slaves...

then yes, it was that bad.. they were humans damn it.. like all the white people!

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Posted 11/26/08

mudduck454 wrote:


lonely_devil wrote:

wait.. what history book are u reading? Do you have any idea what they actually had 2 do? They got up as soon as the sun was up and didn't go back inside till they couldn't see(depended on the season). They had to work through the smothering heat all day long in the fields with the watchers constantly watching them so they didn't take a break. The women were raped by the watchers continuously, I live in the south of the US and we were fully educated on what whites did to blacks back in the day and I'm fully ashamed of it.
eh, i just realized i've been talking about the slavery in the USA, i actually dont know much about slavery in other countries so..<.<


you see here is were things get complicated, i live in the south also and let me tell you my family is from the birth place of the confederacy, i can say this without second guessing it, you have been blinded by the propaganda that our government gives you,

do you think they would tell you the truth if slavery was really not that bad, now dont get me wrong, i believe that slavery was wrong, but to believe what you read, from a government issued book, is crazy, the south was not that bad, and i agree there were a few bad slave owners that treated their slaves harshly, and that is wat our history books focus on, but there were a lot more instances of slaves being treated just like family, and were givin proper health care, and if the civil war was fought over slavery, which it wasn't, then why did black men sign up to fight for the south, and when they died in battle they were buried with honors, complete with a ceremony, so you tell me if the south was that bad then why would they do that, and yes alot of slaves were freed by their owners after years of faithful service,

ignorance is bliss, but believing what you read in a book by a governing body is just plain stupid, the government just wants us to be seperate, you know we wouldn't have black slaves if their own people didnt sell their own kind to the outsiders, so who was the real bad person then,


I had a feeling that most of what I was being taught in history about the civil war wasn't all that true & sure enough.. Well, thanks 4 clearing that up, I'll be doing a lot of research on the civil war now, no wonder everyones calling my generation a bunch of idiots, i feel like an idiot.
Posted 11/26/08
are you fucking kidding me?!!!

slavery has diminished a human's worth, dignity, and value.
you justify that "it isn't as bad" because a handful of slaves got food, shelter, and money.
fine they did get food--the left over gruel from their masters, they got shelter--the crappiest run down shiet box, and money-- yup sure 10 cents is sure enough for their 13 hours of labor!!!

i bet your that fucking kid down the street with the "god says gays are wrong", "women should chained to the kitchen and bedroom" point of view huh?
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Posted 11/26/08
Slavery was bad...yeah....But it could have been worse. But, that is just the definition of a slave. The Africans had it made here compared to how thier masters in Africa were treating them. The Whites bought them as slaves to help. They were led to believe that these different skinned people were not like them--and so they treated them as such. But in Africa they would not have had a chance to learn. A chance to speak, to move, to work and earn your freedom, to have shelter and food. In africa they would have beat them to death had they tried to speak or move or work without being told to do so. They would sleep on the ground with the rain pouring over them being thier only source of water.

White people have been slaves. Asians....Mexicans.....every race.

I mean hell, at least they were given a choice. If they fought in the war--they had thier freedom. that was a step up. They were EQUAL. Everyone is equal when you have the same gun and bullets are flying at your head.

But Slavery still happens today, just not in America. *shrug* Just have to learn todeal with it. Well Actually I take that back...we are kinda using Mexicans as slaves in a way. Just not to a huge extent.

All you prissy people just need to calm down. The kid asked a question and all you can do is give close-minded answers. Yeah--Slavery was bad--but it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
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Posted 11/26/08
Yes slavery was bad but it could have been worse............Is such a weak argument, morally slavery is wrong we know this We could easily say "I think the Holocaust wasn't that bad, The Depression wasn't that bad neither was the Rwanda situation" but we know it was wrong.......Slaves before the established South would work people to death........they wouldn't sleep or eat and they would just work until they died back then the average age a slave would last was 4 years........
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Posted 11/27/08
Facts:
The freedom is the highest property of humans.
The people were/are treated like animals. Getting up, working, eating, sleeping and so on.
They were/are as long as of value for the owners as long as they could/can work.

The so-called advantages of the slavery are not enough to lose his rights, liberty and dignity for this, and nobody has the right to deprive one of these .

This "not so bad" attitude, is disrespectfully and offending to the millions of people that must suffered/suffer.
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Posted 11/27/08

um2456 wrote:

slavery helped many countrys


This is excellent for these countries, it only does not make what has happened to the slaves undone.
It was and is simply wrong.
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Posted 11/27/08

LemonyPanda wrote:
statistics CAN be history, you can interpret them yourself. and i doubt anyone would mess up original documents especially if they are legal documents


yes, and that interpretation is bias.

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Posted 11/27/08

lonely_devil wrote:

I had a feeling that most of what I was being taught in history about the civil war wasn't all that true & sure enough.. Well, thanks 4 clearing that up, I'll be doing a lot of research on the civil war now, no wonder everyones calling my generation a bunch of idiots, i feel like an idiot.


You should really talk a intro uni-level history course. I did one, and the entire course was learning about a historical event, then reading various articles written at different periods of history on the event. You would be amazed at some of the stuff that was written as fact - by US presidents in some cases.
'Thinking Through the past, Volume II:since 1865' Holliz John. (http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Through-Past-Critical-Approach/dp/061841679X)
A pretty neat book. Really starts to make you think critically about what you might have once thought to be straight fact.
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Posted 11/27/08

um2456 wrote:

slavery helped many countrys


An interesting question might be would the Americas be what they are now without slavery?
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Posted 11/27/08

LemonyPanda wrote:

why bring prostitution into this? and i would rather lose my free will and live happily (and maybe save up some money to buy my own freedom) than be "free" but not be able to do anything in life except for risk my life daily for a small paycheck that can barely get food for my already starving family.


Free will is was defines us as humans. Without it, we are shells. If you want to CHOOSE to be a slave, fair enough, but these people did not choose it.
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Posted 11/27/08

Waragah wrote:


LemonyPanda wrote:

I was studying slavery in history right now and i've noticed that slavery wasn't all that bad. I mean of course its bad but its not as bad as people thought. MOST masters treated their slaves pretty well (they didn't let them do dangerous work because slaves are property and don't want to lose value in their property) and a lot of them were eventually freed by saving up their own money. Some white people in the free states were actually worse because as the industrial revolution came to be, there were thousands of workers working for 14 hours a day with only a 30 minute lunch break and only sunday off. There were no safety requirements so people were gettting their hands chopped off and were forced to live in crowded small rooms with 20 other strangers they haven't met before. A lot of people got sick because of the sanitary conditions and once you were sick/had your hand chopped off, you were no longer needed and therefore were kicked out onto the streets crippled and without a home. At least if you were a slave, you were fed, got to work in the open air, and were taken care of until you got old. Its only because of books like uncle tom's cabin and such that made slavery seem like torture


EDIT: ok ive been getting a lot of quotings from retards who don't provide evidence they just say OMG SLAVERY IS SO BAD HOW WOULD YOU FEEL LIKE IT IF YOU WERE A SLAVE HUH obviously slavery is bad IN THESE TIMES but what i'm saying is how slavery was right before the civil war. Many free whites weren't better off in the north AND the south and 75% of the south were poor white trash who even knew themselves that they were as bad as slaves.



i agree with u
its true some of the slaves were ill treated but not all of them
the movie Gone With The Wind somehow clarefuy that idea.


yeah i was thinking about using gone with the wind as my argument (my history teacher showed us 10 minutes of that clip to show not all slaves were mistreated) but its not much of a strong argument so i didn't say anything
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Posted 11/27/08

serealj wrote:


LemonyPanda wrote:
statistics CAN be history, you can interpret them yourself. and i doubt anyone would mess up original documents especially if they are legal documents


yes, and that interpretation is bias.



not every bit of history is biased. You can't argue with solid facts. For example if I say Andrew Jackson was a frontiersman and supported the common man, you can't say anything against it. HOWEVER if I say something like Andrew jackson created a democracy in America, THEN you can debate with me by saying something like no it wasn't until 1848 because thats when more han half the people of America voted or something like that
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