Immigration vs Nationalism
2510 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Canada
Offline
Posted 11/28/08
I've recently migrated to Canada, a country you might consider as an immigrant nation. Due to the huge land area available and small population density (people per square kilometers), the government has encouraged other countries to live here by means of lowering the bar for naturalization, which would mean that you would become a Canadian national faster.

There is one issue that interests me: Could immigration overshadow your nationalism?

My race (Filipino) composes a large part of Canada's population. However, I find that many Filipinos that I've met here are born here, and are unable to speak the mother-tongue. Instead of seeking to learn Filipino, many of them, not all, seek to learn French (Canada's second language). I have no grudge against them learning French, but I find it alarming that a great number of them refuse to learn Filipino. Again, I make myself clear: I am referring to a great number and not the whole population of Canadian-born Filipinos.

Maybe it's not their fault, but their parents', who refuse to teach their children the mother-tongue.

Is this an act of throwing away your nationalism or just a part of "adapting to the culture"?

NOTE: This topic isn't just about Filipinos. People of any race are free to discuss their opinions.
Posted 11/28/08 , edited 11/28/08

gordianknot wrote:

I've recently migrated to Canada, a country you might consider as an immigrant nation. Due to the huge land area available and small population density (people per square kilometers), the government has encouraged other countries to live here by means of lowering the bar for naturalization, which would mean that you would become a Canadian national faster.

There is one issue that interests me: Could immigration overshadow your nationalism?

My race (Filipino) composes a large part of Canada's population. However, I find that many Filipinos that I've met here are born here, and are unable to speak the mother-tongue. Instead of seeking to learn Filipino, many of them, not all
, seek to learn French (Canada's second language). I have no grudge against them learning French, but I find it alarming that a great number of them refuse to learn Filipino. Again, I make myself clear: I am referring to a great number and not the whole population of Canadian-born Filipinos.

Maybe it's not their fault, but their parents', who refuse to teach their children the mother-tongue.

Is this an act of throwing away your nationalism or just a part of "adapting to the culture"?

NOTE: This topic isn't just about Filipinos. People of any race are free to discuss their opinions.

First of all welcome to Canada.As for your question I think immigrant's should learn some basic English to help those who are serving them at stores or any other place with line ups that could slow things down. I am not much of a nationalist myself and think that it is up to the individuals themselves to decide what language(s), they want to speak.
1125 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 11/29/08
First of all...Filipino is not a race..there is no such thing as a Filipino race in anthropology. When you were talking about how Canadian born's who prefer to learn languages other than Filipino is actually not related to your issue of interest. You can't have nationalism or even patriotism towards a different country other than the country you are living in as a citizen of that particular country.

Back to your question, no it does not mean that your throwing away your roots just because you refuse to learn a language. Are you ignoring the fact that your Filipino and are you ashamed? If your answer is no and you feel proud to be one, then there's your answer. The language itself is not important as a determining factor of being proud and ashamed of your ethnicity, roots, etc...

Those parents who allegedly refuse to teach their children the "mother-tongue" or even their regional dialects, from my opinion, only thinks about the future of their children in assimilation into the culture and for job-seeking purposes.

I don't agree that you can just get by with learning to speak basic in any foreign country you want to live in and stay for good. Unless, you know, your just there for a visit. It's common sense that you will be immersed in a community speaking a particular language. How are you going to understand what they are trying to tell you?

And oh yeah, I live in Canada too...you said lowering the bar for naturalization??? Sadly it's not the truth. The government encourages migrant workers to come here, specifically far out west, because Canada is in need of workers. But some of those work are factory production, McDonald's, you know menial jobs. The government is quite clever actually. They are encouraging migrants to live here with their children, preferably a lot of children, because they want the children to study here and work here at a longer span.And if you've noticed, some migrants who has a degree in profession aren't accepted as workers with the same level as their profession back home but must study here first in order to get accepted. They prefer long term devotion of workers. I mean, I would do the same. Why would I accept someone who is old and can only work in my company for a few years and then will retire after with little contribution to the company itself.
2510 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Canada
Offline
Posted 11/29/08

engros wrote:

First of all...Filipino is not a race..there is no such thing as a Filipino race in anthropology. When you were talking about how Canadian born's who prefer to learn languages other than Filipino is actually not related to your issue of interest. You can't have nationalism or even patriotism towards a different country other than the country you are living in as a citizen of that particular country.

Back to your question, no it does not mean that your throwing away your roots just because you refuse to learn a language. Are you ignoring the fact that your Filipino and are you ashamed? If your answer is no and you feel proud to be one, then there's your answer. The language itself is not important as a determining factor of being proud and ashamed of your ethnicity, roots, etc...

Those parents who allegedly refuse to teach their children the "mother-tongue" or even their regional dialects, from my opinion, only thinks about the future of their children in assimilation into the culture and for job-seeking purposes.

I don't agree that you can just get by with learning to speak basic in any foreign country you want to live in and stay for good. Unless, you know, your just there for a visit. It's common sense that you will be immersed in a community speaking a particular language. How are you going to understand what they are trying to tell you?

And oh yeah, I live in Canada too...you said lowering the bar for naturalization??? Sadly it's not the truth. The government encourages migrant workers to come here, specifically far out west, because Canada is in need of workers. But some of those work are factory production, McDonald's, you know menial jobs. The government is quite clever actually. They are encouraging migrants to live here with their children, preferably a lot of children, because they want the children to study here and work here at a longer span.And if you've noticed, some migrants who has a degree in profession aren't accepted as workers with the same level as their profession back home but must study here first in order to get accepted. They prefer long term devotion of workers. I mean, I would do the same. Why would I accept someone who is old and can only work in my company for a few years and then will retire after with little contribution to the company itself.


First of all, thanks for sharing your opinion on this.

Uh, no, my point is, Filipinos born in Canada are still bound to the Filipino race--by blood, that is. Their relatives are still Filipino, and that's it. I'm not saying everyone is required to learn Filipino, but shouldn't you have initiative to learn the language? Or in parents' case, shouldn't they teach those born here the language? Other races are also in question, of course.

Language isn't a determining factor of your roots, but it would show how much you value the country or race. First of all, the Filipino race spent centuries seeking independence, language and a culture of its own. Other races also had different histories on getting their own language, and I think one must at least hold a high regard for this.

Good point on assimilation. However, I would like to raise the point on Ukrainians. Many (most) Ukrainians I know who are born in Canada are well-versed with the language despite them being miles away from the country. I know it's not proper to compare one race with another, but they are a great example on this one. They are taught the root-tongue at home, but it isn't the reason for them to lose their English or French.

I didn't mean that, if you took up your mother-tongue, you shouldn't take up English. My point is, should those born here seek to know their ethnicity's mother-tongue to a certain extent? You don't have to entirely know it and make it your principal language, but shouldn't you know it to a certain extent?

Canada's government highly encourages immigration back in my country. First, the skilled trades, next, the naturalization process. The government didn't really lower the bar, but everyone notices that Canada's requirements for naturalization are much more lax than that of other countries (only three years).
2510 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Canada
Offline
Posted 11/29/08

superninjaboy wrote:


gordianknot wrote:

I've recently migrated to Canada, a country you might consider as an immigrant nation. Due to the huge land area available and small population density (people per square kilometers), the government has encouraged other countries to live here by means of lowering the bar for naturalization, which would mean that you would become a Canadian national faster.

There is one issue that interests me: Could immigration overshadow your nationalism?

My race (Filipino) composes a large part of Canada's population. However, I find that many Filipinos that I've met here are born here, and are unable to speak the mother-tongue. Instead of seeking to learn Filipino, many of them, not all
, seek to learn French (Canada's second language). I have no grudge against them learning French, but I find it alarming that a great number of them refuse to learn Filipino. Again, I make myself clear: I am referring to a great number and not the whole population of Canadian-born Filipinos.

Maybe it's not their fault, but their parents', who refuse to teach their children the mother-tongue.

Is this an act of throwing away your nationalism or just a part of "adapting to the culture"?

NOTE: This topic isn't just about Filipinos. People of any race are free to discuss their opinions.

First of all welcome to Canada.As for your question I think immigrant's should learn some basic English to help those who are serving them at stores or any other place with line ups that could slow things down. I am not much of a nationalist myself and think that it is up to the individuals themselves to decide what language(s), they want to speak.

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

I see your point on English as the necessary language and medium of communication. However, my question remains: to those born here, should they learn their ethnicity's language (at least to a certain extent)?

Of course they have a right to their languages learned, but I'm curious whether they should at least seek to learn their ethnicity's language or not.

1125 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 11/29/08

gordianknot wrote:


engros wrote:

First of all...Filipino is not a race..there is no such thing as a Filipino race in anthropology. When you were talking about how Canadian born's who prefer to learn languages other than Filipino is actually not related to your issue of interest. You can't have nationalism or even patriotism towards a different country other than the country you are living in as a citizen of that particular country.

Back to your question, no it does not mean that your throwing away your roots just because you refuse to learn a language. Are you ignoring the fact that your Filipino and are you ashamed? If your answer is no and you feel proud to be one, then there's your answer. The language itself is not important as a determining factor of being proud and ashamed of your ethnicity, roots, etc...

Those parents who allegedly refuse to teach their children the "mother-tongue" or even their regional dialects, from my opinion, only thinks about the future of their children in assimilation into the culture and for job-seeking purposes.

I don't agree that you can just get by with learning to speak basic in any foreign country you want to live in and stay for good. Unless, you know, your just there for a visit. It's common sense that you will be immersed in a community speaking a particular language. How are you going to understand what they are trying to tell you?

And oh yeah, I live in Canada too...you said lowering the bar for naturalization??? Sadly it's not the truth. The government encourages migrant workers to come here, specifically far out west, because Canada is in need of workers. But some of those work are factory production, McDonald's, you know menial jobs. The government is quite clever actually. They are encouraging migrants to live here with their children, preferably a lot of children, because they want the children to study here and work here at a longer span.And if you've noticed, some migrants who has a degree in profession aren't accepted as workers with the same level as their profession back home but must study here first in order to get accepted. They prefer long term devotion of workers. I mean, I would do the same. Why would I accept someone who is old and can only work in my company for a few years and then will retire after with little contribution to the company itself.


First of all, thanks for sharing your opinion on this.

Uh, no, my point is, Filipinos born in Canada are still bound to the Filipino race--by blood, that is. Their relatives are still Filipino, and that's it. I'm not saying everyone is required to learn Filipino, but shouldn't you have initiative to learn the language? Or in parents' case, shouldn't they teach those born here the language? Other races are also in question, of course.

Language isn't a determining factor of your roots, but it would show how much you value the country or race. First of all, the Filipino race spent centuries seeking independence, language and a culture of its own. Other races also had different histories on getting their own language, and I think one must at least hold a high regard for this.

Good point on assimilation. However, I would like to raise the point on Ukrainians. Many (most) Ukrainians I know who are born in Canada are well-versed with the language despite them being miles away from the country. I know it's not proper to compare one race with another, but they are a great example on this one. They are taught the root-tongue at home, but it isn't the reason for them to lose their English or French.

I didn't mean that, if you took up your mother-tongue, you shouldn't take up English. My point is, should those born here seek to know their ethnicity's mother-tongue to a certain extent? You don't have to entirely know it and make it your principal language, but shouldn't you know it to a certain extent?

Canada's government highly encourages immigration back in my country. First, the skilled trades, next, the naturalization process. The government didn't really lower the bar, but everyone notices that Canada's requirements for naturalization are much more lax than that of other countries (only three years).


Again, I've been arguing in a lot of forums about this...Filipino is not a race...please stop describing it as a race because it certainly isn't.

I don't know what part of Canada you are in but in Toronto not a lot of first born generations can speak their parents mother-tongue and yes i had so many Ukranian friends back in high school. The only people i know who goes to language classes after school are brown people, chiense, and koreans particularly Sri Lankans who learns Tamil. I do agree that Filipinos' should learn at least a bit. One reason that they propose as to why they don't want to learn the language is because of laziness and fear of failure. A lot of Filipinos when i was in high school aren't academically challenged when it comes to learning languages, like French and English. They think that learning Filipino would just be a hindrance, very time consuming, and they're afraid that they won't really learn anything. Your question doesn't really apply more to Canadians since the way i see it, Americans are much much worse when it comes to their Filipino knowledge.

Another thing, i have a friend who can understand both a Bisayan language and Filipino even though he can't really speak it directly. I think it also applies to a select few. Is understanding enough???
2510 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Canada
Offline
Posted 11/29/08 , edited 11/29/08

engros wrote:


Again, I've been arguing in a lot of forums about this...Filipino is not a race...please stop describing it as a race because it certainly isn't.

I don't know what part of Canada you are in but in Toronto not a lot of first born generations can speak their parents mother-tongue and yes i had so many Ukranian friends back in high school. The only people i know who goes to language classes after school are brown people, chiense, and koreans particularly Sri Lankans who learns Tamil. I do agree that Filipinos' should learn at least a bit. One reason that they propose as to why they don't want to learn the language is because of laziness and fear of failure. A lot of Filipinos when i was in high school aren't academically challenged when it comes to learning languages, like French and English. They think that learning Filipino would just be a hindrance, very time consuming, and they're afraid that they won't really learn anything. Your question doesn't really apply more to Canadians since the way i see it, Americans are much much worse when it comes to their Filipino knowledge.

Another thing, i have a friend who can understand both a Bisayan language and Filipino even though he can't really speak it directly. I think it also applies to a select few. Is understanding enough???


I don't understand. What do you mean, Filipino is not a race? Oh wait, do you mean that it's not a race, but it's the ethnicity?

I live in Winnipeg, one of the places where Filipinos are most common, so I naturally would post a forum like this. The people in question are not only Canadian-born people but those in other countries as well. I am not referring to Canadians in particular.

If Filipinos learning the Filipino language is "a waste of time" or a "hindrance", then how would you see the races you gave for example [those of Sri Lankan ethnicity learning Tamil, etc.]? And I don't think one needs a language school for any case, parents could just be your teachers or something.

Yeah, I guess understanding would be fine, depending on your perspective. What I am curious about is people's opinions on this matter, and yes, everybody is entitled to his/her opinion.

Thanks for sharing yours.


1125 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 11/29/08

gordianknot wrote:


engros wrote:


Again, I've been arguing in a lot of forums about this...Filipino is not a race...please stop describing it as a race because it certainly isn't.

I don't know what part of Canada you are in but in Toronto not a lot of first born generations can speak their parents mother-tongue and yes i had so many Ukranian friends back in high school. The only people i know who goes to language classes after school are brown people, chiense, and koreans particularly Sri Lankans who learns Tamil. I do agree that Filipinos' should learn at least a bit. One reason that they propose as to why they don't want to learn the language is because of laziness and fear of failure. A lot of Filipinos when i was in high school aren't academically challenged when it comes to learning languages, like French and English. They think that learning Filipino would just be a hindrance, very time consuming, and they're afraid that they won't really learn anything. Your question doesn't really apply more to Canadians since the way i see it, Americans are much much worse when it comes to their Filipino knowledge.

Another thing, i have a friend who can understand both a Bisayan language and Filipino even though he can't really speak it directly. I think it also applies to a select few. Is understanding enough???


I don't understand. What do you mean, Filipino is not a race?

I live in Winnipeg, one of the places where Filipinos are most common, so I naturally would post a forum like this. The people in question are not only Canadian-born people but those in other countries as well. I am not referring to Canadians in particular.

If Filipinos learning the Filipino language is "a waste of time" or a "hindrance", then how would you see the races you gave for example [those of Sri Lankan ethnicity learning Tamil, etc.]? And I don't think one needs a language school for any case, parents could just be your teachers or something.

Yeah, I guess understanding would be fine, depending on your perspective. What I am curious about is people's opinions on this matter, and yes, everybody is entitled to his/her opinion.

Thanks for sharing yours.




Your welcome....the thing about Filipino not being a race is the wrong use of the term itself. A more correct term to describe Filipino would be ethnicity. Arguments about ethnicity versus race is for anthropological purposes as a means of classifying humans based on culture, physical appearance, etc...

But as you would imagine, Filipinos cannot be classified into one race...

Here's the definitions:

Definition: race (n) a human population considered distinct based on physical characteristics.

It is important to note that race is predominantly a social construct - in other words, scientists have discovered that only 2 percent of our genes are ultimately responsible for the visible differences such as skin color. Although it is not an exact science, social groups play a very important role in defining the rules of race. For example, in some cultures a light skin mulatto who is also upper class may be considered White, while in others, this same individual would classify as Black.

A lingering relic - depicting our history of legislating race - is the "one drop rule" which stipulated that a person with any amount of Black blood was to be classified as Black regardless of appearance. More recently, however, celebrities of mixed race backgrounds, such as Tiger Woods and Mariah Carey have challenged us to adopt less of a black or white approach to the concept of race.

Despite the ongoing challenges with racial classification, race nonetheless continues to hold significant social implications across the globe.

Definition: ethnicity (n) a term which represents social groups with a shared history, sense of identity, geography and cultural roots which may occur despite racial difference

Let's consider Puerto Ricans as an example of an ethnicity. Many Puerto Ricans represent various blends of White, Red and/or Black races and yet they refer to themselves collectively as Boricuas

. Despite color difference, Puerto Ricans share an ethnicity. Ethnicity shapes a group's culture - the food, language, music, and customs.

Many Whites do not consider themselves to be "ethnic" or to have an ethnicity although all of us do! Whether you come from an Italian background, an Irish background, or a combination of the two, these ethnic cultures have most likely played a very important role in shaping how you view, interpret, and interact with the world.

What I'm trying to say is...Filipino is an ethnicity even though there are many types of races in the Philippines they are still considered as Filipinos...You know history right? You get what I'm saying...

Here's another confusing fact: Race as viewed in biology, genetically doesn't exist.
2510 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Canada
Offline
Posted 11/29/08

engros wrote:

Your welcome....the thing about Filipino not being a race is the wrong use of the term itself. A more correct term to describe Filipino would be ethnicity. Arguments about ethnicity versus race is for anthropological purposes as a means of classifying humans based on culture, physical appearance, etc...

But as you would imagine, Filipinos cannot be classified into one race...

Here's the definitions:

Definition: race (n) a human population considered distinct based on physical characteristics.

It is important to note that race is predominantly a social construct - in other words, scientists have discovered that only 2 percent of our genes are ultimately responsible for the visible differences such as skin color. Although it is not an exact science, social groups play a very important role in defining the rules of race. For example, in some cultures a light skin mulatto who is also upper class may be considered White, while in others, this same individual would classify as Black.

A lingering relic - depicting our history of legislating race - is the "one drop rule" which stipulated that a person with any amount of Black blood was to be classified as Black regardless of appearance. More recently, however, celebrities of mixed race backgrounds, such as Tiger Woods and Mariah Carey have challenged us to adopt less of a black or white approach to the concept of race.

Despite the ongoing challenges with racial classification, race nonetheless continues to hold significant social implications across the globe.

Definition: ethnicity (n) a term which represents social groups with a shared history, sense of identity, geography and cultural roots which may occur despite racial difference

Let's consider Puerto Ricans as an example of an ethnicity. Many Puerto Ricans represent various blends of White, Red and/or Black races and yet they refer to themselves collectively as Boricuas

. Despite color difference, Puerto Ricans share an ethnicity. Ethnicity shapes a group's culture - the food, language, music, and customs.

Many Whites do not consider themselves to be "ethnic" or to have an ethnicity although all of us do! Whether you come from an Italian background, an Irish background, or a combination of the two, these ethnic cultures have most likely played a very important role in shaping how you view, interpret, and interact with the world.

What I'm trying to say is...Filipino is an ethnicity even though there are many types of races in the Philippines they are still considered as Filipinos...You know history right? You get what I'm saying...

Here's another confusing fact: Race as viewed in biology, genetically doesn't exist.


Ohh. Yeah. Pardon me for that mistake, I heavily misunderstood things. Sorry.

Wow, you seem very well-versed with Sociology. Thanks for sharing, once more.

So, this time I fix my question:
Should you learn [to a certain degree] your ethnicity's language or not?
1125 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 11/29/08

gordianknot wrote:


engros wrote:

Your welcome....the thing about Filipino not being a race is the wrong use of the term itself. A more correct term to describe Filipino would be ethnicity. Arguments about ethnicity versus race is for anthropological purposes as a means of classifying humans based on culture, physical appearance, etc...

But as you would imagine, Filipinos cannot be classified into one race...

Here's the definitions:

Definition: race (n) a human population considered distinct based on physical characteristics.

It is important to note that race is predominantly a social construct - in other words, scientists have discovered that only 2 percent of our genes are ultimately responsible for the visible differences such as skin color. Although it is not an exact science, social groups play a very important role in defining the rules of race. For example, in some cultures a light skin mulatto who is also upper class may be considered White, while in others, this same individual would classify as Black.

A lingering relic - depicting our history of legislating race - is the "one drop rule" which stipulated that a person with any amount of Black blood was to be classified as Black regardless of appearance. More recently, however, celebrities of mixed race backgrounds, such as Tiger Woods and Mariah Carey have challenged us to adopt less of a black or white approach to the concept of race.

Despite the ongoing challenges with racial classification, race nonetheless continues to hold significant social implications across the globe.

Definition: ethnicity (n) a term which represents social groups with a shared history, sense of identity, geography and cultural roots which may occur despite racial difference

Let's consider Puerto Ricans as an example of an ethnicity. Many Puerto Ricans represent various blends of White, Red and/or Black races and yet they refer to themselves collectively as Boricuas

. Despite color difference, Puerto Ricans share an ethnicity. Ethnicity shapes a group's culture - the food, language, music, and customs.

Many Whites do not consider themselves to be "ethnic" or to have an ethnicity although all of us do! Whether you come from an Italian background, an Irish background, or a combination of the two, these ethnic cultures have most likely played a very important role in shaping how you view, interpret, and interact with the world.

What I'm trying to say is...Filipino is an ethnicity even though there are many types of races in the Philippines they are still considered as Filipinos...You know history right? You get what I'm saying...

Here's another confusing fact: Race as viewed in biology, genetically doesn't exist.


Ohh. Yeah. Pardon me for that mistake, I heavily misunderstood things. Sorry.

Wow, you seem very well-versed with Sociology. Thanks for sharing, once more.

So, this time I fix my question:
Should you learn [to a certain degree] your ethnicity's language or not?


I know...thanx it's been fun talking..i mean typing with you
2510 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Canada
Offline
Posted 11/29/08

engros wrote:

I know...thanx it's been fun talking..i mean typing with you


Same to you.

Wow, I can't believe I misunderstood all that stuff. Lol. Thanks, engros. :)

2510 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Canada
Offline
Posted 11/29/08
Thanks to engros for the correction.

I state my question once more:

Should you learn your ethnicity's language or not, given that you are born in a different country?
Posted 12/10/08
Closed at request of topic starter

~locked
You must be logged in to post.