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Non-Religious people are more likely to be Intelligent than the religious.
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Posted 12/1/08

kicha9 wrote:

Don't blame God or the religions for everything, they are just tools, the only ones creating war and destruction in the world are us HUMANS.
Nobody want to take the blame so they are using the bible or the coran to do whatever they want, but all they want is the power. In french we call it " se cacher derriere la bible"


Exactly my point...
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Posted 12/1/08
false, can't see why religion have to be related to intelligence
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Posted 12/1/08

engros wrote:


kicha9 wrote:

Don't blame God or the religions for everything, they are just tools, the only ones creating war and destruction in the world are us HUMANS.
Nobody want to take the blame so they are using the bible or the coran to do whatever they want, but all they want is the power. In french we call it " se cacher derriere la bible"


Exactly my point...


Though, religion was created by humans and many of our problems have aroused from it. For example, many of the wars in our History only started because of problems involving religion like the crusades.
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Posted 12/1/08

tsumiro wrote:


engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:


engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:


engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:

*sigh* religion holds us back as an entire species. many scientists (galileo, etc) tossed away ideas because of this imaginary "god" person. also many were forced to do so. "god" is not real, never has been. "HE" WAS MADE UP BY PEOPLE. THERE IS NO PROOF TO SUPPORT THE CLAIMS OF "HIS" EXISTANCE.


Although you maybe right, think about what will happen if people don't believe in a higher power...


people would cease hindering scientific discovery, 80% of all wars would be resolved?

if you cant live right, without the fear that your "boss" is gonna kick yer ass if you dont do good, you fail as a human being.



I'm too sleepy to do a lot of feedback so here's a little bit, majority of wars aren't all religious linked. Wars will always happen as long as there's argument in any group. Wars happening now is not caused by religion, even though terrorists are associated into a religious group and misuse their religion to enforce their beliefs and goals.

I'm talking about a divine power not my "boss". More importantly, science's goal is to explain things and to pursue discoveries that would benefit human life not to fulfill one's curiosity. If there is no religion, who is going to help the needy? The unprotected? The oppressed? Religion teaches co-existence and many more that helps humanity become rational thinkers...I don't believe in a god either, but I'm much more concerned about the teachings more than the fairytales


so yeah, those millions of years of religion fueled war between the saudis and shites, etc has nothing to do with anything right?

so what about hitler?

most wars can be traced back to religious origin.



You are quite wrong about that. Those wars were fueled because of cultural differences not religion. They both abide towards Islam right???

If your talking about the Holocaust, then you are so wrong about Hitler's real motive in establishing the NAZI government and starting to colonize European territories. Remember, the Jewish killings were only part of Germany's way of cleansing their nation. They blamed a lot of people including the Jews about why their country has become bankrupt after WWI. Nobody even knew about the Jewish massacres until Germany was invaded by the Allied troops. Germany focused on returning the fatherland to its former state, a powerful army with a rich economy. Hitler blamed the Jews, the gays, and all minorities for dirtying Germany. He wanted an Aryan race ruled country because he believed they can run the country much more efficiently that the minorities. The war didn't start solely because Hitler hated the Jews. It was because he is taking too many territories that were not supposed to be controlled by Germany. The League of Nations was also to blame for fueling a big World War. They didn't do a thing in stopping Hitler. The war isn't about Christianity vs Judaism. The Jews were just taken on the way for Germany's global control.


no, they both are in different SECTS, so they fight cuz they both think each other are wrong.

and hitler was indeed a bad example but i was tired, forgive it. in any case my point was he wanted a pure race and what not but in retrospect that sucks, in regards to my argument.

disregard previous retarded statement.



Shiite vs Sunni vs other Islamic branches: It is a battle for the mantle of the Prophet Mohammad and representation in their countries. The killings is about sovereignty not religion. We see it being caused by religion just because outside forces are using people's religious beliefs to motivate them to fight. In Iraq, Saddam was a Sunni and imposed strict control over the country and the Shia's. Now that they, Shia's have the political control, the Sunni's are fighting to be represented. I hope you understand.
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Posted 12/1/08

tsumiro wrote:


engros wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:


engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:


engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:

*sigh* religion holds us back as an entire species. many scientists (galileo, etc) tossed away ideas because of this imaginary "god" person. also many were forced to do so. "god" is not real, never has been. "HE" WAS MADE UP BY PEOPLE. THERE IS NO PROOF TO SUPPORT THE CLAIMS OF "HIS" EXISTANCE.


Although you maybe right, think about what will happen if people don't believe in a higher power...


people would cease hindering scientific discovery, 80% of all wars would be resolved?

if you cant live right, without the fear that your "boss" is gonna kick yer ass if you dont do good, you fail as a human being.



I'm too sleepy to do a lot of feedback so here's a little bit, majority of wars aren't all religious linked. Wars will always happen as long as there's argument in any group. Wars happening now is not caused by religion, even though terrorists are associated into a religious group and misuse their religion to enforce their beliefs and goals.

I'm talking about a divine power not my "boss". More importantly, science's goal is to explain things and to pursue discoveries that would benefit human life not to fulfill one's curiosity. If there is no religion, who is going to help the needy? The unprotected? The oppressed? Religion teaches co-existence and many more that helps humanity become rational thinkers...I don't believe in a god either, but I'm much more concerned about the teachings more than the fairytales


so yeah, those millions of years of religion fueled war between the saudis and shites, etc has nothing to do with anything right?

so what about hitler?

most wars can be traced back to religious origin.



You are quite wrong about that. Those wars were fueled because of cultural differences not religion. They both abide towards Islam right???

If your talking about the Holocaust, then you are so wrong about Hitler's real motive in establishing the NAZI government and starting to colonize European territories. Remember, the Jewish killings were only part of Germany's way of cleansing their nation. They blamed a lot of people including the Jews about why their country has become bankrupt after WWI. Nobody even knew about the Jewish massacres until Germany was invaded by the Allied troops. Germany focused on returning the fatherland to its former state, a powerful army with a rich economy. Hitler blamed the Jews, the gays, and all minorities for dirtying Germany. He wanted an Aryan race ruled country because he believed they can run the country much more efficiently that the minorities. The war didn't start solely because Hitler hated the Jews. It was because he is taking too many territories that were not supposed to be controlled by Germany. The League of Nations was also to blame for fueling a big World War. They didn't do a thing in stopping Hitler. The war isn't about Christianity vs Judaism. The Jews were just taken on the way for Germany's global control.


The war where Hitler had the backing of the Pope and the Church?
Scary to think america wen agents there religion in this war.

Yes they considered this war a holy war that is how he got the backing of most of his people.



That's a lot of bullshit..holy war..pope siding with Hitler...take history first before you even say anything. Go to this link to clarify this problem.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_churchandnazis.html

It wasn't a holy war, please do some further research before you post any claims.


twas a war hiding behind a religious veil.

*read previous posts.



So what are you trying to say?
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Posted 12/1/08

masterfula wrote:

replying to the first post*
Yeah defenetly

god is fiction,
all the religion is a really crappy fairy tale with angles and who knows what shit,
i know alot of old people turn to religion beacuse their afraid, to die
so its pretty much means for lieing to yourself and hiding from the hash reality thats out here...nothing more

btw even pokemon is more real than the beffing bible


for all you belivers i quote some random guy
"Jesus Christ was a "Character" that was CREATED at the Nicean Council in 325 A.D., when Emperor Constantine changed the name of the Serapis Christus image, (which was an image early christians worshipped & was made in honor of Ptolemy I) to Jesus Christus.

In FACT, there's NOT ONE MENTION by any king, queen, historian, philosopher, scribe, etc., of ANYONE named Jesus for the 1st 3 centuries of mankind! "
and thats a fact :d

just want to add that religion is only means for mass control and brainwashing, thats pretty much its all about

also in WW2 Hitler was originally supported by US goverment
it had nothing to do with religion, only economics and power

and for last thing....F|_|CK JEWS!

there never were no jew killing camps thats made up and people who proved that were thrown in prison, that even happened few years ago.. again
so fuck the united states of jews

ps! i might be a racist, but not like i care :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KquQWrqO-0


Why do you hate the Jews? Were you bullied by them?
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Posted 12/1/08 , edited 12/1/08

lostty wrote:


engros wrote:


kicha9 wrote:

Don't blame God or the religions for everything, they are just tools, the only ones creating war and destruction in the world are us HUMANS.
Nobody want to take the blame so they are using the bible or the coran to do whatever they want, but all they want is the power. In french we call it " se cacher derriere la bible"


Exactly my point...


Though, religion was created by humans and many of our problems have aroused from it. For example, many of the wars in our History only started because of problems involving religion like the crusades.


Yes, but it's not religion that caused the wars...it's the humans who uses the beliefs of the people to motivate them to fight and control their opinions. If you think about it, the Crusade wars is the only major religious war in history caused because of religion vs. religion. Maybe I'm wrong...yeah i am...
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Posted 12/1/08 , edited 12/1/08

madlibbs wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


madlibbs wrote:

1. I do not know any Nobel prize winners or MENSA members personally, and therefore do not know anything about the reasoning behind their religious beliefs, nor do I know how reliable the surveys were that were utilized, so I will withhold judgment in that particular area. Do you have any websites or other sources that support your claim?
2. My experience (with fairly average people) has been that religion and IQ do not correlate unless you take into account the degree of extremism associated with each person's religious beliefs.
3. You know, you're just as bad as religious extremists in the sense that you try to force your beliefs onto others.


Survey answers among "greater" scientists
%
NAS
members 7%
21%
72%
belief in God agnostic atheists
Belief in personal God 1998
Personal belief 7.0 %
Personal disbelief 72.2
Doubt or agnosticism 20.8
Belief in human immortality 1998
Personal belief 7.9 %
Personal disbelief 76.7
Doubt or agnosticism 23.3


Perhaps I should've been more specific. Where exactly are you getting these statistics?


That would be the National Academy of Sciences ((NAS)) and in 2006 the number of Atheist as top leading Scientist in there fields happen to be 85%
Thats a nice size jump in the last 8 years.


http://www.uncommondescent.com/religion/nas-at-85-atheists-lets-bump-it-up-to-100/
Scientist Moderator
digs 
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Posted 12/1/08
Does it specify their field of study? I'm sure there are tons of atheist scientists working on evolution and global warming. Religious people are not less intelligent, most of the early scientists who discovered great things were Christians and saw science as a way to better understand God's Intricacy and creation.
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Posted 12/1/08

digs wrote:

Does it specify their field of study? I'm sure there are tons of atheist scientists working on evolution and global warming. Religious people are not less intelligent, most of the early scientists who discovered great things were Christians and saw science as a way to better understand God's Intricacy and creation.


It deals with all the top scientest, from all branches of study.

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Posted 12/1/08 , edited 12/1/08

engros wrote:


lostty wrote:


engros wrote:


kicha9 wrote:

Don't blame God or the religions for everything, they are just tools, the only ones creating war and destruction in the world are us HUMANS.
Nobody want to take the blame so they are using the bible or the coran to do whatever they want, but all they want is the power. In french we call it " se cacher derriere la bible"


Exactly my point...


Though, religion was created by humans and many of our problems have aroused from it. For example, many of the wars in our History only started because of problems involving religion like the crusades.


Yes, but it's not religion that caused the wars...it's the humans who uses the beliefs of the people to motivate them to fight and control their opinions. If you think about it, the Crusade wars is the only major religious war in history caused because of religion vs. religion. Maybe I'm wrong...yeah i am...


Well, your semi right to why it started, but it was more of religion vs revenge and it wasn't the only religious war in history
What I don't understand about your point, is that religion is made by humans and their beliefs. Without the humans and their opinions, there is no religion. The human act of defending your religion is beliefs indeed, but it derives from religion in the start rather than just one human's thoughts, which would lead us into the whole idea of conversion, but that would be a whole other story....
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Posted 12/1/08

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


madlibbs wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


madlibbs wrote:

1. I do not know any Nobel prize winners or MENSA members personally, and therefore do not know anything about the reasoning behind their religious beliefs, nor do I know how reliable the surveys were that were utilized, so I will withhold judgment in that particular area. Do you have any websites or other sources that support your claim?
2. My experience (with fairly average people) has been that religion and IQ do not correlate unless you take into account the degree of extremism associated with each person's religious beliefs.
3. You know, you're just as bad as religious extremists in the sense that you try to force your beliefs onto others.


Survey answers among "greater" scientists
%
NAS
members 7%
21%
72%
belief in God agnostic atheists
Belief in personal God 1998
Personal belief 7.0 %
Personal disbelief 72.2
Doubt or agnosticism 20.8
Belief in human immortality 1998
Personal belief 7.9 %
Personal disbelief 76.7
Doubt or agnosticism 23.3


Perhaps I should've been more specific. Where exactly are you getting these statistics?


That would be the National Academy of Sciences ((NAS)) and in 2006 the number of Atheist as top leading Scientist in there fields happen to be 85%
Thats a nice size jump in the last 8 years.


http://www.uncommondescent.com/religion/nas-at-85-atheists-lets-bump-it-up-to-100/


Thanks, much appreciated.

By the way, I'm willing to bet that at least 85% of scientists in the middle ages were Christian, and in ancient Greece were pagans.
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Posted 12/1/08
Chrisitanity is all people like to discuss......there are other religions.....I think Christians have beliefs that conflict with intelligience like global warming and politics.......too stupid to vote for someone smart.......we have the product of Bush.......but I have a BS and earned a 3.5 GPA in college I didn't really have doubts about God until I attended college and took religiong and philosophy so yes I do believe....Intelligience and Religion coincide somewhat......
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Posted 12/1/08

engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:


engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:


engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:


engros wrote:


tsumiro wrote:

*sigh* religion holds us back as an entire species. many scientists (galileo, etc) tossed away ideas because of this imaginary "god" person. also many were forced to do so. "god" is not real, never has been. "HE" WAS MADE UP BY PEOPLE. THERE IS NO PROOF TO SUPPORT THE CLAIMS OF "HIS" EXISTANCE.


Although you maybe right, think about what will happen if people don't believe in a higher power...


people would cease hindering scientific discovery, 80% of all wars would be resolved?

if you cant live right, without the fear that your "boss" is gonna kick yer ass if you dont do good, you fail as a human being.



I'm too sleepy to do a lot of feedback so here's a little bit, majority of wars aren't all religious linked. Wars will always happen as long as there's argument in any group. Wars happening now is not caused by religion, even though terrorists are associated into a religious group and misuse their religion to enforce their beliefs and goals.

I'm talking about a divine power not my "boss". More importantly, science's goal is to explain things and to pursue discoveries that would benefit human life not to fulfill one's curiosity. If there is no religion, who is going to help the needy? The unprotected? The oppressed? Religion teaches co-existence and many more that helps humanity become rational thinkers...I don't believe in a god either, but I'm much more concerned about the teachings more than the fairytales


so yeah, those millions of years of religion fueled war between the saudis and shites, etc has nothing to do with anything right?

so what about hitler?

most wars can be traced back to religious origin.



You are quite wrong about that. Those wars were fueled because of cultural differences not religion. They both abide towards Islam right???

If your talking about the Holocaust, then you are so wrong about Hitler's real motive in establishing the NAZI government and starting to colonize European territories. Remember, the Jewish killings were only part of Germany's way of cleansing their nation. They blamed a lot of people including the Jews about why their country has become bankrupt after WWI. Nobody even knew about the Jewish massacres until Germany was invaded by the Allied troops. Germany focused on returning the fatherland to its former state, a powerful army with a rich economy. Hitler blamed the Jews, the gays, and all minorities for dirtying Germany. He wanted an Aryan race ruled country because he believed they can run the country much more efficiently that the minorities. The war didn't start solely because Hitler hated the Jews. It was because he is taking too many territories that were not supposed to be controlled by Germany. The League of Nations was also to blame for fueling a big World War. They didn't do a thing in stopping Hitler. The war isn't about Christianity vs Judaism. The Jews were just taken on the way for Germany's global control.


no, they both are in different SECTS, so they fight cuz they both think each other are wrong.

and hitler was indeed a bad example but i was tired, forgive it. in any case my point was he wanted a pure race and what not but in retrospect that sucks, in regards to my argument.

disregard previous retarded statement.



Shiite vs Sunni vs other Islamic branches: It is a battle for the mantle of the Prophet Mohammad and representation in their countries. The killings is about sovereignty not religion. We see it being caused by religion just because outside forces are using people's religious beliefs to motivate them to fight. In Iraq, Saddam was a Sunni and imposed strict control over the country and the Shia's. Now that they, Shia's have the political control, the Sunni's are fighting to be represented. I hope you understand.


the point i am trying to make is that religion still is fueling it

the details are unimportant, if the religion wasnt there in the first place, thered be nothing to be fighting about.

fruit from the poisonous tree, etc.

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Posted 12/1/08

lostty wrote:


engros wrote:


lostty wrote:


engros wrote:


kicha9 wrote:

Don't blame God or the religions for everything, they are just tools, the only ones creating war and destruction in the world are us HUMANS.
Nobody want to take the blame so they are using the bible or the coran to do whatever they want, but all they want is the power. In french we call it " se cacher derriere la bible"


Exactly my point...


Though, religion was created by humans and many of our problems have aroused from it. For example, many of the wars in our History only started because of problems involving religion like the crusades.


Yes, but it's not religion that caused the wars...it's the humans who uses the beliefs of the people to motivate them to fight and control their opinions. If you think about it, the Crusade wars is the only major religious war in history caused because of religion vs. religion. Maybe I'm wrong...yeah i am...


Well, your semi right to why it started, but it was more of religion vs revenge and it wasn't the only religious war in history
What I don't understand about your point, is that religion is made by humans and their beliefs. Without the humans and their opinions, there is no religion. The human act of defending your religion is beliefs indeed, but it derives from religion in the start rather than just one human's thoughts, which would lead us into the whole idea of conversion, but that would be a whole other story....


Yeah...that's why i said "maybe I'm wrong" because i don't know a whole lot about the crusades.

What I meant by religion is not the institution but the moral/ethical teachings, etc.....The religion I'm talking about isn't the corrupt organization. I should have explained it much better or perhaps change my wording. And here's what i found in google:There's only 4 types of religious wars, one of them is the Crusades. I looked up Crusades and no it isn't religion vs. revenge. I should change my thought about religion vs. religion too because the Crusade wars were more than that. Here's a wikipedia entry about it..."The Crusades were a series of religion-driven military campaigns waged by much of Christian Europe against external and internal opponents. Crusades were fought mainly against Muslims, though campaigns were also directed against pagan Slavs, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians and political enemies of the popes."
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