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On going case: Christopher Handley faces up to 20 years in prison for owning "obscene" manga
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Posted 12/14/08
Its not like he did anything bad or illegal, he wasnt forcing this down someones throat. He legally bought this for private viewing and has the right to enjoy it. Just because some people find it offensive doesnt mean they have the right to take away his rights. It makes no sense, you don't see jews getting all upset when you can buy Hitlers book "Mein Kampf" legally. This just shows the hypocrisy and ignorance of the average american. If this charge passes and the man does go to jail, somebody could say anything is offensive and not have to deal with it. Goodbye Bible. Goodbye textbooks. Goodbye any source of entertainment.

This is fucking ridiculous.
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26 / M / CA
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Posted 12/14/08
That guy is awesome, he has my support
lkmjr 
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Posted 12/14/08

Forbidden93 wrote:


lkmjr wrote:


Forbidden93 wrote:


lkmjr wrote:


Magical_Me wrote:

This is related to child manga pornagraphy stuff rite? will anyway this situtation is defined of having things that does not fit the standards. I dont get it owning things like child porn can make u into a sexual offender? This is wrong in some ways because effort can be put in to arrest serious offenders someone tat can do physical damage or a real crime that happends in reality. The only reason this guy should be arrested is tat if he is the one making real child/porn/manga stuff. This is unclear because in manga age is not really told in it. The author could say the characters are over the age of 18. I dont own any manga...cause im cheap... but this kind of stuff is happening because society such in America feels unsafe and anything that is not normal..even this...then they are put down. I dont know much about manga or laws but the stuff american movies put out seems much worse. Anyhow if there is a scientific fact that looking at child manga porn turns u into a rapeists then all of this stuff should be illegal. Everyone is innocent unless they commit a crime that harms another human being.


They talked about that in the article. Apparently the PROTECT Act changed up the laws a bit so that even if the person is just reading porn (or in this case, "obscene" manga) they can still be considered a sex offender and therefore a threat to the people around them. The whole thing about the character in question possibly, but then maybe not, being a minor is another thing that's being debated. If she looks twelve years old even though she's twenty, can she still be considered a minor, since it's just a picture?? Come to think of it, how can we say "She appears to be ______ age" when she comes from the mind of her creator and isn't necessarilly supposed to look realistic?? It depends on what your moral position is.


I agree with your last line,but i think 20 years for self-reflection quite long wouldnt you say?


In this situation, I agree. In another situation, things could be different. I think the PROTECT Act, since it wasn't going after manga in the first place, was thinking along the lines of "If this guy watches child pornography, he's only one step below rape. He could cross the line at any moment." We studied criminal psychological patterns in one of my classes, and it actually does happen like that most of the time. So, they peg porn fans as potential dangers to society them, on the level of rapists, and change the laws to that they face the same charges as a rapist would. Manga, and other "virtual" works like drawings and animated videos of people in sexual situations, isn't excluded from the law, so essentially for reading some lolicon this guy's been grouped with the child rapists. An originally good intention turned bad.


...You're not really 13 are you,criminal psychology in class when youre just 13?..thats too much to believe...


Not a class about criminal psychology specifically, but we touched on the subject. I go to a magnet school, so we have advanced classes and a bunch of extra electives and languages, which is why I have Japanese classes when I'm only in seventh grade. It's a humanities and law-based program, so we have a lot of electives based on criminal justice and other areas related to social studies. The class I took was called peer mediation. Technically, it was a class in which students helped other students "solve their conflicts", but we never got any cases so we pretty much just did language arts and social studies-based side lessons. My teacher, Mr. Knapp, was a retired police officer, so he was also the one who taught the junior. police academy elective. He took some of his lessons from that, and criminal psychology was one of the things we learned about. Fascinating, though I'm not really interested in the subject.
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Posted 12/14/08
Even if he does get convicted he won't be serving 20 years because the punishment is far too excessive for the crime. I think the most he could get is a fine...just imo.
lkmjr 
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Posted 12/14/08

Rail_Man wrote:

Its not like he did anything bad or illegal, he wasnt forcing this down someones throat. He legally bought this for private viewing and has the right to enjoy it. Just because some people find it offensive doesnt mean they have the right to take away his rights. It makes no sense, you don't see jews getting all upset when you can buy Hitlers book "Mein Kampf" legally. This just shows the hypocrisy and ignorance of the average american. If this charge passes and the man does go to jail, somebody could say anything is offensive and not have to deal with it. Goodbye Bible. Goodbye textbooks. Goodbye any source of entertainment.

This is fucking ridiculous.


Agreed. I think that, if anyone, the distributor should be the one on trial. If they think this is so wrong, just getting irritated at one person isn't solving much. It's like trying to pick off all of the downloaders instead of the poster of an illegal download. Hmm.... That simile isn't making me very happy.... Oh well, you see my point.
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Posted 12/14/08

lkmjr wrote:


Forbidden93 wrote:


lkmjr wrote:


Forbidden93 wrote:


lkmjr wrote:


Magical_Me wrote:

This is related to child manga pornagraphy stuff rite? will anyway this situtation is defined of having things that does not fit the standards. I dont get it owning things like child porn can make u into a sexual offender? This is wrong in some ways because effort can be put in to arrest serious offenders someone tat can do physical damage or a real crime that happends in reality. The only reason this guy should be arrested is tat if he is the one making real child/porn/manga stuff. This is unclear because in manga age is not really told in it. The author could say the characters are over the age of 18. I dont own any manga...cause im cheap... but this kind of stuff is happening because society such in America feels unsafe and anything that is not normal..even this...then they are put down. I dont know much about manga or laws but the stuff american movies put out seems much worse. Anyhow if there is a scientific fact that looking at child manga porn turns u into a rapeists then all of this stuff should be illegal. Everyone is innocent unless they commit a crime that harms another human being.


They talked about that in the article. Apparently the PROTECT Act changed up the laws a bit so that even if the person is just reading porn (or in this case, "obscene" manga) they can still be considered a sex offender and therefore a threat to the people around them. The whole thing about the character in question possibly, but then maybe not, being a minor is another thing that's being debated. If she looks twelve years old even though she's twenty, can she still be considered a minor, since it's just a picture?? Come to think of it, how can we say "She appears to be ______ age" when she comes from the mind of her creator and isn't necessarilly supposed to look realistic?? It depends on what your moral position is.


I agree with your last line,but i think 20 years for self-reflection quite long wouldnt you say?


In this situation, I agree. In another situation, things could be different. I think the PROTECT Act, since it wasn't going after manga in the first place, was thinking along the lines of "If this guy watches child pornography, he's only one step below rape. He could cross the line at any moment." We studied criminal psychological patterns in one of my classes, and it actually does happen like that most of the time. So, they peg porn fans as potential dangers to society them, on the level of rapists, and change the laws to that they face the same charges as a rapist would. Manga, and other "virtual" works like drawings and animated videos of people in sexual situations, isn't excluded from the law, so essentially for reading some lolicon this guy's been grouped with the child rapists. An originally good intention turned bad.


...You're not really 13 are you,criminal psychology in class when youre just 13?..thats too much to believe...


Not a class about criminal psychology specifically, but we touched on the subject. I go to a magnet school, so we have advanced classes and a bunch of extra electives and languages, which is why I have Japanese classes when I'm only in seventh grade. It's a humanities and law-based program, so we have a lot of electives based on criminal justice and other areas related to social studies. The class I took was called peer mediation. Technically, it was a class in which students helped other students "solve their conflicts", but we never got any cases so we pretty much just did language arts and social studies-based side lessons. My teacher, Mr. Knapp, was a retired police officer, so he was also the one who taught the junior. police academy elective. He took some of his lessons from that, and criminal psychology was one of the things we learned about. Fascinating, though I'm not really interested in the subject.

th
Wow..your class is really interesting...it must be really exciting to learn those advanced courses huh,you know,im a little envious of you..cos when i was younger i wanted to learn about this kind of stuff but then the education system kinda put a lid on it,so i was supposed to learn only academic stuff..i dont think this goes only for myself though,but youre lucky you get to satisfy your wanting for knowledge..provided youre interested. Actually,i hope you tell me more,im pretty curious..you have good insight about these things..
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Posted 12/14/08

Bunniwafflez wrote:

OOOOOOk So I do NOT understand any of this... I read all of it and stuff but I still don't get it ;o; I'm just a stupid 14 yr old.. sooo someone explain please? D:


Basically some guy could go to jail for owning a dirty manga, which makes various anime/manga fans nervous. Its kind of the fight to keep things clean vs free speech or artistic expression.


I think the crux of the situation is the definition of obscene, which could easily put many many manga on a "ban" list and start up a whole new era of book burning and witch hunting. As to whether or not this guy is a deviant I say depends on his collection. I mean, if the majority of them are yaoi, loli/shota, hentai whatever, he could very well be a pervert, and possibly a threat to society, since the article said he had over a thousand, (I think), its highly unlikely they are all dirty. My guess this is a bit of pointless cracking down by right wing politicians (the article said it was yaoi, and that's just bound to burn them up)
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Posted 12/14/08
This is simple really. If you get off to kids you are sick in the head. I don't care if they are real or just drawings, if you get off to them you are sick, and are in need of help. Society shouldn't have to deal with you.
lkmjr 
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Posted 12/14/08

Forbidden93 wrote:


th
Wow..your class is really interesting...it must be really exciting to learn those advanced courses huh,you know,im a little envious of you..cos when i was younger i wanted to learn about this kind of stuff but then the education system kinda put a lid on it,so i was supposed to learn only academic stuff..i dont think this goes only for myself though,but youre lucky you get to satisfy your wanting for knowledge..provided youre interested. Actually,i hope you tell me more,im pretty curious..you have good insight about these things..


^_^ Glad to know someone's interested. Yeah, it is really interesting. The whole system is designed to get kids with potential the education they need to get into good, make-things-happen type jobs in the political system, or at least my school is. There are three school in the middle school magnet program: My school, which specializes in humanities and law, as well as language arts (the writing classes are the main reason I decided to go there. Not much of a law person, but I love to read and write); another school that specializes in math and the sciences; and an all-girls school that was just built last year and has no specific area they focus on. Like I said, we have a lot of extra electives and, since I go to the law/language arts magnet, languages. Instead of the typical Spanish, French, and German, we have all of those plus Japanese (which rocks), Latin, Greek (ancient and modern), and Chinese. Some of the extra electives are said junior police academy, a class specifically for kids who like making comics (how sweet is that?!), creative writing, a class which explores the ways Greek mythology has effected modern literature and media, a speech class, mock trial, and several classes dedicated to specific areas of the law. We also have upper-level core classes and more projects than regular homework, by which I mean that every grading period we have maybe three or four big projects to do and very few work sheets and the like.

So yeah, it's a pretty sweet setup. This semester my electives were peer mediation (I really don't like the class much, so why do I keep coming back??), PE (if that counts), comic book class (not much of an artist, but it's just another area of literature, depending on who you talk to), and Japanese. Next semester peer mediation, comics, and (thank the sweet lord) PE are getting replaced by two computer classes and a Shakespeare class. Japanese is a year-round course that we have the option of taking the advanced class for next year, as are all languages. It's pretty awesome.

^_^;; Sorry for going on for forever.
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Posted 1/13/09

jamesbont wrote:

Even if he does get convicted he won't be serving 20 years because the punishment is far too excessive for the crime. I think the most he could get is a fine...just imo.



Actually, if he gets punished for this the minimum will be 5 years in prison. 20 years is the maximum. They are treating this case the same as if they had found him with child pornography.

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Posted 1/13/09

bluebunny8 wrote:


jamesbont wrote:

Even if he does get convicted he won't be serving 20 years because the punishment is far too excessive for the crime. I think the most he could get is a fine...just imo.



Actually, if he gets punished for this the minimum will be 5 years in prison. 20 years is the maximum. They are treating this case the same as if they had found him with child pornography.



Doesn't make any sense though, since drawings aren't real.
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Posted 1/13/09
In my personal opinion (and funny enough my history teachers) on this case is that because the reading or purchasing of a quote "obscene" manga doesn’t infringe on others rites it is constitutionally protected. However, he added and somewhat to my disappointment that the production or design of "obscene" manga is fair game for prosecution.
.
EGH 
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Posted 1/13/09 , edited 1/13/09
This is crazy why would they give 20 years to a person with porn !!!!DRAWINGS!!!!
They are drawings plain and simple they are not actual pictures representative of anyone or anything
he could have drawn them himself if he wanted to know if they were real pics he belongs in prison
but I will say this again THEY ARE DRAWINGS 20 YEARS IS TO MUCH
anyway how did they even find out this guy had this manga was he reading it out in the open or something
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Posted 1/13/09
You need to read the articles about the case. It is outrageous from a common view point. However having CP pictures is a crime too. The laws are different every where and small state courts can over ride federal laws too.

Look how screwed up it is. Theres a new article on foxnews today - Washington Court: Teachers Can Have Sex With 18-Year-Old Students.

I won't provide the link but you can find it, see, once again, someone older is freely or can freely have sex with someone who is 18, but the big courts say no one can have sex with any one under 21 if you catch my drift.

And the other guy that was put in for 20 years from the other state recently, courts said, 'victim does not have to exist, they can be a figment of the imagination, if they are under 19, the person can be put in jail for 20 years and labeled a child sex offender.
Posted 1/13/09

lkmjr wrote:


Rail_Man wrote:

Its not like he did anything bad or illegal, he wasnt forcing this down someones throat. He legally bought this for private viewing and has the right to enjoy it. Just because some people find it offensive doesnt mean they have the right to take away his rights. It makes no sense, you don't see jews getting all upset when you can buy Hitlers book "Mein Kampf" legally. This just shows the hypocrisy and ignorance of the average american. If this charge passes and the man does go to jail, somebody could say anything is offensive and not have to deal with it. Goodbye Bible. Goodbye textbooks. Goodbye any source of entertainment.

This is fucking ridiculous.


Agreed. I think that, if anyone, the distributor should be the one on trial. If they think this is so wrong, just getting irritated at one person isn't solving much. It's like trying to pick off all of the downloaders instead of the poster of an illegal download. Hmm.... That simile isn't making me very happy.... Oh well, you see my point.

It's too bad I missed this thread of yours, you should have seen my thread regarding a similar interest: http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-396893/The-Beginning-Of-The-End-For-Virtual-Child-Pronography.html?src=trail
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