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On going case: Christopher Handley faces up to 20 years in prison for owning "obscene" manga
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Posted 1/14/09
Hm...Honestly... Its bs that they are charging for owning obscene manga. Manga is a type of art that should be appreciated no matter what it contains because whoever wrote it worked hard to make it. I could care less if the art is worse than mine (seriously very terrible). For God's sake, we have been looking at nudity for the past thousand years in paintings with naked children and women. If they care about this guy owning a manga with bunch of nude people in it, let him. And first, they should get the author of the manga and have him explain whether the characters are children or not. Very serious... people should stop looking at the bad things of being a manga fan. If they keep looking at the bad points, they should take a step back and start appreciating art more carefreely.
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Posted 1/14/09 , edited 1/14/09

lkmjr wrote:

Just picked this up on ANN: Christopher Handley is currently facing up to twenty years in prison for owning "obscene" manga. In February, 2009, he will go to court in Iowa. ANN, along with Carl Gustav Horn (a manga editor for Dark Horse), is considering the possible consequences of the case for all anime and manga fans.

Original articles:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/2008-12-11/christopher-handley/jason-thompson
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/2008-12-11/christopher-handley/carl-horn


Christopher Handley, a manga fan in Iowa, is currently in an unenviable position: he's the first comics or manga fan ever to face criminal charges for possessing manga to read in the privacy of his own home. He's currently facing obscenity charges, which could carry up to 20 years in prison. The Comic Book Legal Defense Fund, an organization which exists to defend free speech in comic books, is raising money to help with his case. You can read more about it here (http://www.cbldf.org/pr/archives/000372.shtml)


The article goes on to consider how this will effect anime and manga fans, as well as how obscenity conflicts with American's freedom of speech and how "obscene" is defined differently depending on where you live, i.e. Japan or America, and other aspects of how this case applies to and affects other anime and manga fans.

UPDATE: Apparently, it's yaoi manga, possibly shota, untranslated, which he got in airport customs with. Which makes more sense if it is shota, because then the "virtual child pornography" thing comes into play. This might be better discussed on Dom's thread on the subject at this point.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Any thoughts?? I'd suggest reading the article before giving an opinion. I personally agree with the majority of the statements made in the article, and wonder how this will affect non-anime/manga fan's opinions of anime and manga and those who watch/read it.


this is actually an interesting case on this point because.

1. "Obscene" material is not protected Speech/Expression.

2.What really constitutes as obscene? as far as I know from taking government. Pornography is counted as obscene material. and there is a huge difference between Porn and Nudity. it depends on how it is handled. the question asked to whether it is obscene is "Is the purpose of the nudity to arouse?" if so, it is obscene. if not it could be considered Art.
So it depends on if the court looks at the manga as a form of art or pornography.

3.it all comes down to court decision of whether or not they will see it as Art or as Porn. the case would be interesting if it reached the supreme court of appeals, seeing as it could, because it deals with the federal issue of the first amendment.
Posted 1/14/09
once again, the first amendment has been ignored :\
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Posted 1/14/09

spazing_dragon wrote:

once again, the first amendment has been ignored :\


no it has not
Posted 1/14/09
lol the guy had child porn. (even it it was hentai)

the bastard deserved to go to jail

the sick fag
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Posted 1/14/09

MelloGel wrote:

lol the guy had child porn. (even it it was hentai)

the bastard deserved to go to jail

the sick fag


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Posted 1/14/09
He probably did deserve it, but did it have to be like 20 years? Basically just being born and then completing high school and a extra year or 2... Wasted.
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Posted 1/14/09
So what happens to the creator's of this so-called obscene manga?
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Posted 1/14/09

gnomeonfire wrote:


MelloGel wrote:

lol the guy had child porn. (even it it was hentai)

the bastard deserved to go to jail

the sick fag


QFT


Do we really know that? We know he had something that officialdom CLAIMED was child porn I had a customs official once claim I was Korean. I'm not sure why. I'm Canadian citizen born and while my genetic heritage traverses a wide branch of nationalities any connection to asia would require tracing my ancestory back to the alaska/siberia land bridge.

My point as in previous posts, it to be careful judging strangers based on singleton news reports. Otherwise: To put it in anime terms you're acting just like the brainless mobs in 'Blassreiter' who praise Gerd (Whatever his last name was.. 'the champ') one day and pillory him the next. It's stupid and it's ugly.

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Posted 1/14/09

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


gnomeonfire wrote:


MelloGel wrote:

lol the guy had child porn. (even it it was hentai)

the bastard deserved to go to jail

the sick fag


QFT


Do we really know that? We know he had something that officialdom CLAIMED was child porn I had a customs official once claim I was Korean. I'm not sure why. I'm Canadian citizen born and while my genetic heritage traverses a wide branch of nationalities any connection to asia would require tracing my ancestory back to the alaska/siberia land bridge.

My point as in previous posts, it to be careful judging strangers based on singleton news reports. Otherwise: To put it in anime terms you're acting just like the brainless mobs in 'Blassreiter' who praise Gerd (Whatever his last name was.. 'the champ') one day and pillory him the next. It's stupid and it's ugly.



child porn is child porn. its not like mistaking a chinese person for a japanese person. when something looks like child porn it's child porn.
Posted 1/14/09 , edited 1/14/09

gnomeonfire wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


gnomeonfire wrote:


MelloGel wrote:

lol the guy had child porn. (even it it was hentai)

the bastard deserved to go to jail

the sick fag


QFT


Do we really know that? We know he had something that officialdom CLAIMED was child porn I had a customs official once claim I was Korean. I'm not sure why. I'm Canadian citizen born and while my genetic heritage traverses a wide branch of nationalities any connection to asia would require tracing my ancestory back to the alaska/siberia land bridge.

My point as in previous posts, it to be careful judging strangers based on singleton news reports. Otherwise: To put it in anime terms you're acting just like the brainless mobs in 'Blassreiter' who praise Gerd (Whatever his last name was.. 'the champ') one day and pillory him the next. It's stupid and it's ugly.



child porn is child porn. its not like mistaking a chinese person for a japanese person. when something looks like child porn it's child porn.

But what about legally licensed and published fictional work with explicit content of cultural taboos, which are copyright protected literary and artistic work of its respective copyright holder. And according to the Miller test of being obscene, a work with literary and artistic value is not obscene. Therefore such work is not illegal virtual child pornography defined by the PROTECT Act of 2003.

And all of Christopher Handley's mangas are licensed and published fictional work which he obtained legally via online purchase. Therefore what the government's action was in fact unconstitutional, because they violated Handley's freedom of expression, when they arrested him for legally obtaining legit copyrighted & licensed intellectual properties.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 1/14/09

MelloGel wrote:

lol the guy had child porn. (even it it was hentai)

the bastard deserved to go to jail

the sick fag

So sick people deserve imprisonment, even though no child was harmed in the making of the material.

I think we can safely assume the guy had no real child porn, as you can bet they searched his house. It is likely there was also no evidence he had ever committed any crime against a child, as this would have no doubt leaked to the media, if that had been the case.

Try this spin:

I don't think many of us would argue that a person owning pictures or video of a person being brutalized and/or tortured and killed deserves punishment (given evidence they knew it was real). But how about a person owning the same pics or videos that are simply acting and special effects, or more to the point, simply in an anime or manga? If so, start rounding up everyone that gets off on guro or even graphic horror films. For that matter, arrest anyone owning a copy of Elfen Lied.

If this case results in a convinction, who is to say the next step is not to start clamping down on any anime or manga that shows an underage character nude? Given that most anime characters are supposed to be high school students or younger, that casts a wide net. If you think that sounds silly, go showing around pics of a nude (or just topless) 14 year old girl (regardless of how demure the pose) to people and see how long it is before you are arrested for possession of child porn.
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Posted 1/14/09
I dont even know where to begin but the matter of the fact is they got it all wrong! How can u be punished for this, its like saying we cant fantasize or even think about sex. Everyone has their own intrepretation when comes to manga or anime. If drawing ppl having sex on paper is so bad what about these damn pornagraphy videos thats out there on the internet for the world to see for free? why dont they get penalize for watching and purchasing it. I think is is stupid. I've read news article about real rapists out there that dont even get locked up for 20yrs(they should get life) and some are even set free or on probation but they end up commiting the same crime! these ppl should go after the real criminals. omg this is so ridiculous!
Posted 1/14/09

MelloGel wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:


MelloGel wrote:

lol the guy had child porn. (even it it was hentai)

the bastard deserved to go to jail

the sick fag

So sick people deserve imprisonment, even though no child was harmed in the making of the material.

I think we can safely assume the guy had no real child porn, as you can bet they searched his house. It is likely there was also no evidence he had ever committed any crime against a child, as this would have no doubt leaked to the media, if that had been the case.

Try this spin:

I don't think many of us would argue that a person owning pictures or video of a person being brutalized and/or tortured and killed deserves punishment (given evidence they knew it was real). But how about a person owning the same pics or videos that are simply acting and special effects, or more to the point, simply in an anime or manga? If so, start rounding up everyone that gets off on guro or even graphic horror films. For that matter, arrest anyone owning a copy of Elfen Lied.

If this case results in a convinction, who is to say the next step is not to start clamping down on any anime or manga that shows an underage character nude? Given that most anime characters are supposed to be high school students or younger, that casts a wide net. If you think that sounds silly, go showing around pics of a nude (or just topless) 14 year old girl (regardless of how demure the pose) to people and see how long it is before you are arrested for possession of child porn.


tl;dr

anyways, what's your saying isn't the case now is it?
the sick fuck was fapping to child hentai porn
don't go making prediction of "what could be", fag
it's that kind of thinking that makes more fags.

Then try this.

You attack those that you find inferior because it makes you feel superior, otherwise you're a victim of your own inferiority.
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Posted 1/14/09

DomFortress wrote:


gnomeonfire wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


gnomeonfire wrote:


MelloGel wrote:

lol the guy had child porn. (even it it was hentai)

the bastard deserved to go to jail

the sick fag


QFT


Do we really know that? We know he had something that officialdom CLAIMED was child porn I had a customs official once claim I was Korean. I'm not sure why. I'm Canadian citizen born and while my genetic heritage traverses a wide branch of nationalities any connection to asia would require tracing my ancestory back to the alaska/siberia land bridge.

My point as in previous posts, it to be careful judging strangers based on singleton news reports. Otherwise: To put it in anime terms you're acting just like the brainless mobs in 'Blassreiter' who praise Gerd (Whatever his last name was.. 'the champ') one day and pillory him the next. It's stupid and it's ugly.



child porn is child porn. its not like mistaking a chinese person for a japanese person. when something looks like child porn it's child porn.

But what about legally licensed and published fictional work with explicit content of cultural taboos, which are copyright protected literary and artistic work of its respective copyright holder. And according to the Miller test of being obscene, a work with literary and artistic value is not obscene. Therefore such work is not illegal virtual child pornography defined by the PROTECT Act of 2003.

And all of Christopher Handley's mangas are licensed and published fictional work which he obtained legally via online purchase. Therefore what the government's action was in fact unconstitutional, because they violated Handley's freedom of expression, when they arrested him for legally obtaining legit copyrighted & licensed intellectual properties.


1. it depends on the purpose of the work. if it is meant for the purpose of porn it is obscene. depends how a jury would most likely see the material as (art or porn).

2.If Christopher Handley is under age (idk didnt read article) then the government has a compelling reason to arrest him. First Amendment rights are NOT absolute, obscene material is also not a protected expression.(if number 1 applies then he isnt protected). the first five words of the first amendment seem to be ignored by most people. "Congress shall make no law" but since Obscenity isnt protected then congress could make a law against it depending whether the manga could also be considered porn.

3. if anything he should try and get protection under the 5th amendment not the 1st. because HOW his material was seized for evidence could have been an illegal search. unless like most people he just surrendered his rights by letting cops or whatnot into the house thus losing all his protection by the 5th amendment.
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