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Illegal Immigration
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Posted 5/4/07
Hello all, and welcome to yet another wonderfully controversial political topic by Seraph.

So what’s he complaining about this time you ask? Well, illegal immigration.

Anyone who has been following the American News (I live in America so that’s me! :P) Knows about May, 1st. For those of you who don’t hang in and I’ll explain it. Basically certain states are trying to pass laws that ban employers and businesses from hiring illegal aliens. To be fare I’ll go ahead and try to review the facts about all of this from a neutral point of view before expressing my own opinions.

Illegal immigration is a big economical booboo on America. This is a simple fact. However, there are those who say that it is against the American code itself to say that people cannot enter America freely. On may first a large scale protest went bad when police were harassed into violent measures against the rebelling crowds. Videos recordings of the event show that many of the police officers were using excessive force. However, this being said, it is also true that they were being harried and pushed into a corner. In one video I saw a police officer beat a fleeing man who fell to the ground with his club. Another proceeded to mistake a Mexican (a legal citizen who was on the scene as a reporter) as one of the crowd’s protestors. He and a group of other riot control officers began to approach the man in a manor that was, no matter how you look at it, startling for the man. He turned to get out of their way and tripped to the ground. One of the police officers began to rise up to strike him (or that’s how it appeared) when another reporter (A young Caucasian female) from the same company rushed to her coworkers side. The police officer proceeded to violently throw her and her companion about until he had chase them off the scene.

My opinion: The riot needed to be handled, and I’ll tell you those people who were beaten are just lucky I was no there. I would’ve tear gassed the snot out of them and arrested them all because they were being dangerous, violent, obscene, and breaking a wonderful plethora of laws. I understand and respect their adamant opinions, but frankly most of them were illegal aliens themselves. Also, there are appropriate ways to make a political movement. I think the police got out of control when they started beating fleeing men on the ground, and kicking women around. However, I think the crowds violent behavior is to blame far more than the cops themselves. In a situation like that violence is often necessary, and in the chaos you cannot expect them to identify who’s who. The reporter should have watched himself and stayed out of the way. So I don’t necessarily approve of the police behavior, but I can’t honestly say I blame them.

As far as the actual matter that sparked the rebellion, I strongly support it. Living in Oklahoma City I’m surrounded by illegal aliens. Bluntly put they’re taking over. The local grocery stores are now Mexican. (As most illegal aliens, especially down here, are in fact Mexican.) Everything is written in Spanish and I cannot even shop around any more. Honestly, this doesn’t bother me too much. It’s a little annoying, but at some point I need to learn Spanish. However, I was very upset when the school was forced to shut down their German program. Being a German in blood I enjoyed to study my heritage and native tongue, and was upset to see it gone on a personal level. When I found out why they removed it, I was cast into a rage.

Basically a group of Mexicans who had children that they had smuggled across the boarder were mad because their kids could not speak English. Although our school had multiple Spanish classes at various levels we only had one German class. In order to teach these illegal immigrants how to speak English they shut down, German, French, Latin, and various other languages and opened up -more- Spanish classes. I hate that stupid class! (Spanish is a very hard language for me. I picked up the minimal plan and stopped taking foreign language classes after that.)

Crime runs rampant because police can’t touch these people. We send them back to Mexico where nothing happens and then they come back by the truck loads. Mexicans are coming into Texas and Oklahoma, getting on welfare and unemployment, and then taking the money back to their families. Millions upon millions of illegal aliens are coming from all over the world and hurting our economy and taking our jobs illegally.

I understand that there is not much opportunity for them elsewhere, however there are legal ways to become a citizen of America. Furthermore, I don’t mind people coming into America with the hope of being an American. Of learning English and starting a family. Even if they smuggle themselves over. It’s the ones who come here and join gangs, smuggle our money over the boarder, or bring drugs into our streets.

Honestly from what I’ve seen most of the people who appose the movement to ban the hiring of illegal immigrants are from areas not subjected to it to a severe degree, or are themselves illegal. (Or have family who is illegal.) Its so horribly frustrating, and it hurts our nation while building theirs up. In Texas and Oklahoma the majority of the population is now Mexican, and Spanish is the dominate language.

I’ve nothing against Mexicans, Hispanics, Germans, Blacks, Blues, Whites, or Jews, but illegal immigration is one of my pet-peeves.

There are currently more illegal aliens living in America than there are citizens living in Oregon, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Arkansas and Rhode Island combined! Experts estimate the number to be 12 million or higher.

How do you feel about the ban? The punishment for employers is that their license gets suspended. Nothing too major.

Honestly, the argument on the other side has been extremely fickle from what I’ve seen of it. Stupid stuff that’s inaccurate and false. For example: “It’s racial profiling” No, it’s not. That’s just fact. Not even opinion. The law isn’t banning the higher of Mexicans, much to the nearby Rednecks’ dismay, but illegal aliens. I think this will boost the economy, benefit legal immigrants and citizens of America, and cut back on crime too. Besides, this is getting dangerous! Illegal Immigrants are getting violent to cross. Attacking boarder patrol and breaking into the homes of citizens who live near the boarders. In retaliation myriads of citizens are taking the law into their own hand. Carrying guns to the boarder that our government has simply abandoned. If we stop hiring them, they’ll stop coming…. I’m for the movement, but think that the riot could have been handled better with the appliance of tear gas. No broken bones or long term injuries, but just enough umbrage to break a violent crowd up!


I’ll link the web page that Fox has put on the subject, since Fox news has been my main source for information on the matter…Here’s the hyperlink. Check it out if you’d like… Dunno what it says exactly…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150520,00.html
46535 cr points
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Posted 5/4/07
"since Fox news has been my main source for information on the matter"

oops! bad mistake.
killar 
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34 / M / Texas
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Posted 5/4/07
I'm perfectly cool with a ban. I live in Texas so you can imagine how it is down here. I swear I drive down some streets and I can cant tell where the hell I am because EVERYTHING is in Spanish.

I'm sure I'm partly to blame for there being so many aliens here because I pay them to do my yard or clean my house. But the fact that they think they can protest and demand that WE (Americans) learn Spanish and give them health care (paid for by OUR legal taxes) pisses me off.

Whats really bad is that they keep having kids. And those kids are actually legal, which means they can vote. All that means that they can influence politics and keep the borders open for more aliens to come here. If the governor was not 'paid off' by the Mexican groups he would have found the cash and built a massive fence or something like a wall blocking Mexico from Texas. But he doesn't give a shit. It all just makes you sick.

Sooner or later I'm sure I'll have to move because I don't understand Spanish and have no interest in it.
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Posted 5/4/07

mauz15 wrote:

"since Fox news has been my main source for information on the matter"

oops! bad mistake.




Fox News is pretty accurate. They're not as bias as other news stations in my opinion. Of course they have it to a degree, but I learned when Israel finally retaliated against the Muslims that other news stations purposefully try and sway the masses to their opinion and treat it likes it fact. Fox News does the same. However, unlike those other stations, Fox presents both sides of the argument and then goes on to explain why they feel the other one is wrong. They support it pretty well and give you the facts, though they do suggest a specific side of the argument to be the “just” or “proper” one. I have to admit that.



killar wrote:

I'm perfectly cool with a ban. I live in Texas so you can imagine how it is down here. I swear I drive down some streets and I can cant tell where the hell I am because EVERYTHING is in Spanish.

I'm sure I'm partly to blame for there being so many aliens here because I pay them to do my yard or clean my house. But the fact that they think they can protest and demand that WE (Americans) learn Spanish and give them health care (paid for by OUR legal taxes) pisses me off.

Whats really bad is that they keep having kids. And those kids are actually legal, which means they can vote. All that means that they can influence politics and keep the borders open for more aliens to come here. If the governor was not 'paid off' by the Mexican groups he would have found the cash and built a massive fence or something like a wall blocking Mexico from Texas. But he doesn't give a shit. It all just makes you sick.

Sooner or later I'm sure I'll have to move because I don't understand Spanish and have no interest in it.


I've lived in Texas and know exactly what you mean. I completely agree, though I refuse to hiar illegal aliens myself. (Of course I'm 16 soo... yeah... :P)

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Posted 5/4/07
Errrrrr, don't say Fox News is unbiased, even listening to it hurts my ears. I am not saying any other news network is unbiased, just saying that just because it appeals to your world view doesn't make it true.
killar 
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34 / M / Texas
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Posted 5/4/07

Thoughtmonkey wrote:

Errrrrr, don't say Fox News is unbiased, even listening to it hurts my ears. I am not saying any other news network is unbiased, just saying that just because it appeals to your world view doesn't make it true.


Well, I'm here living it and seeing it happen every day. And I can tell you everything in that story is true.

Posted 5/4/07
I'm not a supporter of illegal immigration but I have to disagree with your argument to support it's ban, particulary in reference to the US economy.

Our economy would suffer a huge collapse if we forcefully expelled all the illegal immigrants in our country. In fact, expelling them forcefully would be an "economic booboo". Spain forcefully expelled all it's muslim citizens in 1492 and even w/ revenue from the New World they suffered a huge economic crises. In fact, if we forcefully expelled our illegal immigrants the cost of living would soon skyrocket due to various reasons (increase in production costs, decrease in consumer consumption etc...) I'm too lazy to go into it all. If you're interested, take a course on economics.

Also, if you're going to talk about crime in terms of "race", statistically, hispanics account for a smaller number and their crimes are in most cases, their crimes are of a less serious nature.

Anyways, you should be careful about believing what the mass media or various opposing groups spout to defend their positions. In most cases, it's baseless, propoganda bullcrap. As far as correct information goes, these two sources are not very reliable.

I do however agree that illegal immigration is becoming a bit of a problem.
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Posted 5/4/07
Neither fox news nor CNN, etc are worth using as the main source of information. heck I even got to watch fox news for my assigment on logical fallacies. Easiest A ever.
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Posted 5/4/07

killar wrote:

Well, I'm here living it and seeing it happen every day. And I can tell you everything in that story is true.



Then it is probably true, I live closer to our northern border so I can never say with certainty what is happening in Texas and Oklahoma.
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Posted 5/4/07

mauz15 wrote:

"since Fox news has been my main source for information on the matter"

oops! bad mistake.


O-W-N-E-D

I once picked up 2 Mexicans to help me move debris from one of my jobsites. True story.

Also, I live next to a Uhaul, lots of them there yea.

May I add, what are the "blues"?
Posted 5/4/07

mauz15 wrote:

Neither fox news nor CNN, etc are worth using as the main source of information. heck I even got to watch fox news for my assigment on logical fallacies. Easiest A ever.


I'm with you there. They're not very good or reliable sources of information.

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Posted 5/4/07
Fox is probably the MOST biased network there is. As for not hearing a good argument? Listen kid, you're 16, so maybe you don't know. Who do you think cleans out sewers? Who do you think is the dish washer in 50% of the restaurants in America? They even make up a lot of our cooks. Who's doing all the crappy jobs that actual US citizens don't want to do? Wanna know why illegal immigrants shouldn't be stopped from working? Here's one for you, without them our economy would COLLAPSE. If you don't think so, you're a fool and probably a sheltered rich boy or just too damn young to experience the world around you.

Next time you go into a restaurant that isn't some fine dining master piece, (Let's say, Denny's, Olive Garden, etc.), I'd like you to ask yourself something. Seriously, you need to stop and think, "I wonder if my food was cooked by an illegal immigrant?" and "I wonder if my plate was washed by an illegal immigrant". Now, I'm not saying all illegal immigrants work in restaurants, nothing like that. What I am saying though, is that a HUGE majority of restaurants have AT LEAST a couple, as do most sanitation departments, etc. etc.

Next time you go into the bathroom and make a big fat one, you better thank god there's an illegal immigrant some where making sure your sewer system doesn't explode and gush that dukey right back onto your front lawn.
1909 cr points
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Posted 5/4/07
mm I dunno o.O
I dunno what's so bad about it. maybe i'm naive
killar 
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34 / M / Texas
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Posted 5/4/07
^Yeah very.


PerfectChaosZero wrote:

Fox is probably the MOST biased network there is. As for not hearing a good argument? Listen kid, you're 16, so maybe you don't know. Who do you think cleans out sewers? Who do you think is the dish washer in 50% of the restaurants in America? They even make up a lot of our cooks. Who's doing all the crappy jobs that actual US citizens don't want to do? Wanna know why illegal immigrants shouldn't be stopped from working? Here's one for you, without them our economy would COLLAPSE. If you don't think so, you're a fool and probably a sheltered rich boy or just too damn young to experience the world around you.

Next time you go into a restaurant that isn't some fine dining master piece, (Let's say, Denny's, Olive Garden, etc.), I'd like you to ask yourself something. Seriously, you need to stop and think, "I wonder if my food was cooked by an illegal immigrant?" and "I wonder if my plate was washed by an illegal immigrant". Now, I'm not saying all illegal immigrants work in restaurants, nothing like that. What I am saying though, is that a HUGE majority of restaurants have AT LEAST a couple, as do most sanitation departments, etc. etc.

Next time you go into the bathroom and make a big fat one, you better thank god there's an illegal immigrant some where making sure your sewer system doesn't explode and gush that dukey right back onto your front lawn.


There's plenty of Americans that will do those jobs. Why does everyone think Americans will outright refuse labor work?

And from what I understand they are not trying to get rid of the aliens that are here now. Rather they want them to become legal (the right way). And if you make it so no one hires them, they will have to apply and become legal. As legal Americans, they will do good things like pay taxes. And they wont become a black hole to our health care and justice system.


Posted 5/4/07
Killar: I think we can limit the people who will do such jobs to teenagers. Hell, I flipped burgers as a kid but now I'm an adult. Flipping burgers is the last thing I wanna do.
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