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Evolution and Creationism in School
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Posted 12/29/08 , edited 12/29/08
Do you think that public schools should teach creationism as well as evolution? Some people feel that it is inappropriate to only introduce children to one side of the debate. How do you feel?

I think high schools and middle schools should provide an elective class in theology. That way the option of introducing your child to creationism as well as evolution is available. It's a moderate compromise that leaves everyone happy.
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Posted 12/29/08
I agree with the current way of doing things. Creationism is not a science, whereas evolution has some scientific backing. If parents want their children to learn Creationism, they can teach it themselves or send them to Catholic school. Public school is not supposed to push or offer ANY religious class as to not insult those with no religion. I can assure that providing something like Theology in a public school would cause an uproar elective or otherwise. Look at what is happening in Quebec, for instance, they introduced a "World Ethics" class that taught all religions into every school district and students are being kept at home by their parents and protesting has been going on against the class since it was introduced.
Also, Evolution is hardly taught in public schools. It is maybe one day out of the grade 9 science course and students are allowed to leave the class if it insults or goes against their religion.
I would have to say that the way Evolution and Creationism is dealt with at the moment is the best way possible.
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Posted 12/29/08
I believe schools should teach creationism as well. They should also expose the students to a variety of moral stands in the world. They will eventually run into these kind of ideas throughout their life, so why not teach it now? However, creationism is not science. It should be taught in Social Studies classes along with subjects like abortion. Science has facts to back it up and not a justification of faith. Creationism can not be proven or disproved. So overall, they should teach it, but not in the science curriculum.
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Posted 12/29/08 , edited 12/29/08

SeraphAlford wrote:

Do you think that public schools should teach creationism as well as evolution? Some people feel that it is inappropriate to only introduce children to one side of the debate. How do you feel?

I think high schools and middle schools should provide an elective class in theology. That way the option of introducing your child to creationism as well as evolution is available. It's a moderate compromise that leaves everyone happy.


Absolutely. As long both is kept as much to a current academic level without any attempts of :"conversian" from both parties. Even as an Atheist, I always find it hypocritical that public schools teach about Eastern religions and Islam at an academic level yet Chritianity is not allowed even if it is academic. Heck college have classes on Christian Theology that is purely academic, Why can't public schools do the same?
As a side note, I'm also all for classes about the History of Homosexuality in schools as well.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Seraph.
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digs 
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Posted 12/29/08 , edited 12/29/08
I think neither evolution nor creationism should be forced in schools because both have theory status. I think there should be an optional course that discusses evolution and intelligent design (creationism) and talks about the evidence (both supporting and counter evidence) in both theories. As it stands now, evolution is a forced topic to be learned, it is introduced as fact, and no counter arguments are ever put into the text books nor are holes in the theory explained. I think there is an incredible evolutionary bias in schools, and in the pursuit of well rounded education I would advocate teaching both with their supporting evidence and counter arguments. Introducing one theory and calling it fact is not education, but rather indoctrination.

P.S. I believe creationism to be a science. There are institutes for intelligent design and Biblical creationism. Within the creationist theory there are sub theories (such as Biblical old earth, Biblical young earth, deistic creationism, etc...) Intelligent design is scientifically studied and scientifically analyzed. I would strongly argue that the study of intelligent design is a science.
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Posted 12/29/08
Hey, this is really impressive. We’ve had four brilliant opinions presented in a mature and adult way without a single flamer.


digs wrote:

I think neither evolution nor creationism should be forced in schools because both have theory status. I think there should be an optional course that discusses evolution and intelligent design (creationism) and talks about the evidence (both supporting and counter evidence) in both theories. As it stands now, evolution is a forced topic to be learned, it is introduced as fact, and no counter arguments are ever put into the text books nor are holes in the theory explained. I think there is an incredible evolutionary bias in schools, and in the pursuit of well rounded education I would advocate teaching both with their supporting evidence and counter arguments. Introducing one theory and calling it fact is not education, but rather indoctrination.

P.S. I believe creationism to be a science. There are institutes for intelligent design and Biblical creationism. Within the creationist theory there are sub theories (such as Biblical old earth, Biblical young earth, deistic creationism, etc...) Intelligent design is scientifically studied and scientifically analyzed. I would strongly argue that the study of intelligent design is a science.


Well, evolution as the source of life is a theory in the same sense that all historical ideas are theory. However, evolution itself is a part of every day life. One example is that I have a friend who raises cattle. His family has done this for generations. They breed their cattle with specific mates to acquire specific results. That’s evolution.

Now, do we know that humans evolved from primates? Not really, that’s a theory. Do we know that the original life forms evolved from primordial slug? No, that’s theory. But, we do know and can prove that evolution and natural selection both exist.




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digs 
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Posted 12/29/08

SeraphAlford wrote:

Hey, this is really impressive. We’ve had four brilliant opinions presented in a mature and adult way without a single flamer.


digs wrote:

I think neither evolution nor creationism should be forced in schools because both have theory status. I think there should be an optional course that discusses evolution and intelligent design (creationism) and talks about the evidence (both supporting and counter evidence) in both theories. As it stands now, evolution is a forced topic to be learned, it is introduced as fact, and no counter arguments are ever put into the text books nor are holes in the theory explained. I think there is an incredible evolutionary bias in schools, and in the pursuit of well rounded education I would advocate teaching both with their supporting evidence and counter arguments. Introducing one theory and calling it fact is not education, but rather indoctrination.

P.S. I believe creationism to be a science. There are institutes for intelligent design and Biblical creationism. Within the creationist theory there are sub theories (such as Biblical old earth, Biblical young earth, deistic creationism, etc...) Intelligent design is scientifically studied and scientifically analyzed. I would strongly argue that the study of intelligent design is a science.


Well, evolution as the source of life is a theory in the same sense that all historical ideas are theory. However, evolution itself is a part of every day life. One example is that I have a friend who raises cattle. His family has done this for generations. They breed their cattle with specific mates to acquire specific results. That’s evolution.

Now, do we know that humans evolved from primates? Not really, that’s a theory. Do we know that the original life forms evolved from primordial slug? No, that’s theory. But, we do know and can prove that evolution and natural selection both exist.






I am not saying don't teach what is true, it is good to discuss natural selection and genetics, but what I am mainly addressing is the theories of evolution (in that life came from proteins and created itself through energy and matter) and also about the origins of the species. I just think they need to remove the bias in schools and not address something as fact unless it is scientific law. They also need to address counter argument for all theories that they choose to teach on, I think this would truly be education and not indoctrination, it makes students critically analyze what information is being presented before them and make a judgment based (hopefully) on their logic and reasoning with the given data.
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Posted 12/29/08

digs wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:

Hey, this is really impressive. We’ve had four brilliant opinions presented in a mature and adult way without a single flamer.


digs wrote:

I think neither evolution nor creationism should be forced in schools because both have theory status. I think there should be an optional course that discusses evolution and intelligent design (creationism) and talks about the evidence (both supporting and counter evidence) in both theories. As it stands now, evolution is a forced topic to be learned, it is introduced as fact, and no counter arguments are ever put into the text books nor are holes in the theory explained. I think there is an incredible evolutionary bias in schools, and in the pursuit of well rounded education I would advocate teaching both with their supporting evidence and counter arguments. Introducing one theory and calling it fact is not education, but rather indoctrination.

P.S. I believe creationism to be a science. There are institutes for intelligent design and Biblical creationism. Within the creationist theory there are sub theories (such as Biblical old earth, Biblical young earth, deistic creationism, etc...) Intelligent design is scientifically studied and scientifically analyzed. I would strongly argue that the study of intelligent design is a science.


Well, evolution as the source of life is a theory in the same sense that all historical ideas are theory. However, evolution itself is a part of every day life. One example is that I have a friend who raises cattle. His family has done this for generations. They breed their cattle with specific mates to acquire specific results. That’s evolution.

Now, do we know that humans evolved from primates? Not really, that’s a theory. Do we know that the original life forms evolved from primordial slug? No, that’s theory. But, we do know and can prove that evolution and natural selection both exist.






I am not saying don't teach what is true, it is good to discuss natural selection and genetics, but what I am mainly addressing is the theories of evolution (in that life came from proteins and created itself through energy and matter) and also about the origins of the species. I just think they need to remove the bias in schools and not address something as fact unless it is scientific law. They also need to address counter argument for all theories that they choose to teach on, I think this would truly be education and not indoctrination, it makes students critically analyze what information is being presented before them and make a judgment based (hopefully) on their logic and reasoning with the given data.


Oh dear, I think we are taught something completely different up here. We have 1 day of evolution if we are lucky and only in grade 9 science courses. So, really this is more of an America debate topic. But, I can tell you guys right now that Quebec tried teaching both and it did not work out well at all.
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Posted 12/29/08
What was their approach though? Because, I think that my compromise would resolve any issues.
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Posted 12/29/08

SeraphAlford wrote:

What was their approach though? Because, I think that my compromise would resolve any issues.


If this is directed to me, they made a mandatory Ethics class that covered all religions. Both creationism and evolutions. A fair balance of both were interjected into the curriculum in both public and catholic schools. There have been protests and students have been forced to stay home by their parents. Parents, in general, had rather teach their children their believes at home rather than have them forced down their throats by the schools. Even as an elective, which is your recommendation, parents will take the same stance because that was one of the solutions that was looked at. It was shot down from what I've heard.
Posted 12/30/08
I love theology, and I agree with creating it as an elective course. It's an optional course, so parents don't have to fuss over their child being converted or whatever, hence the word optional. As long as it's not being forced down someone's neck, shouldn't be a problem. Religious related things should be taught on a need to know basis, seeing as world literature and history requires the reader to know cultural and religious references.
The compromise could work, although I'm pretty fond of the current system at the moment as darkmagiciangirl911 stated.


QuasimodoSunday wrote:
As a side note, I'm also all for classes about the History of Homosexuality in schools as well.

I'm all for it.
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Posted 12/30/08
Evolution by Natural Selection is not a counter-argument to creationism.

That's like a pro-abortion vs. the war in iraq

Natural Selection doesn't necessarily counter creationism at all, in fact, it can compliment it quite well. Creationism should not be taught in school because we have this little document that separates church and state which is the foundation for our country. Natural Selection, however, is a science that is expertly backed up. The theory of evolution does not say we came from monkeys. It simply says that populations will begin to change over time due to the "survival of the fittest" concept.

There is always a middle ground somewhere
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Posted 12/31/08

digs wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:

Hey, this is really impressive. We’ve had four brilliant opinions presented in a mature and adult way without a single flamer.


digs wrote:

I think neither evolution nor creationism should be forced in schools because both have theory status. I think there should be an optional course that discusses evolution and intelligent design (creationism) and talks about the evidence (both supporting and counter evidence) in both theories. As it stands now, evolution is a forced topic to be learned, it is introduced as fact, and no counter arguments are ever put into the text books nor are holes in the theory explained. I think there is an incredible evolutionary bias in schools, and in the pursuit of well rounded education I would advocate teaching both with their supporting evidence and counter arguments. Introducing one theory and calling it fact is not education, but rather indoctrination.

P.S. I believe creationism to be a science. There are institutes for intelligent design and Biblical creationism. Within the creationist theory there are sub theories (such as Biblical old earth, Biblical young earth, deistic creationism, etc...) Intelligent design is scientifically studied and scientifically analyzed. I would strongly argue that the study of intelligent design is a science.


Well, evolution as the source of life is a theory in the same sense that all historical ideas are theory. However, evolution itself is a part of every day life. One example is that I have a friend who raises cattle. His family has done this for generations. They breed their cattle with specific mates to acquire specific results. That’s evolution.

Now, do we know that humans evolved from primates? Not really, that’s a theory. Do we know that the original life forms evolved from primordial slug? No, that’s theory. But, we do know and can prove that evolution and natural selection both exist.






I am not saying don't teach what is true, it is good to discuss natural selection and genetics, but what I am mainly addressing is the theories of evolution (in that life came from proteins and created itself through energy and matter) and also about the origins of the species. I just think they need to remove the bias in schools and not address something as fact unless it is scientific law. They also need to address counter argument for all theories that they choose to teach on, I think this would truly be education and not indoctrination, it makes students critically analyze what information is being presented before them and make a judgment based (hopefully) on their logic and reasoning with the given data.



First, evolution is a theory because it cannot really be proved because the process takes millions of years to even become noticeable and we will never know for certain (most likely) how life began billions of years ago. However, as far as I can tell, creationism has very little real evidence to support it and is the less provable of the two and i do not believe it is science. Therefore, i do not think that creationism should be taught in public schools but there should be a choice about whether or not to teach evolution.
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Posted 12/31/08

digs wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:

Hey, this is really impressive. We’ve had four brilliant opinions presented in a mature and adult way without a single flamer.


digs wrote:

I think neither evolution nor creationism should be forced in schools because both have theory status. I think there should be an optional course that discusses evolution and intelligent design (creationism) and talks about the evidence (both supporting and counter evidence) in both theories. As it stands now, evolution is a forced topic to be learned, it is introduced as fact, and no counter arguments are ever put into the text books nor are holes in the theory explained. I think there is an incredible evolutionary bias in schools, and in the pursuit of well rounded education I would advocate teaching both with their supporting evidence and counter arguments. Introducing one theory and calling it fact is not education, but rather indoctrination.

P.S. I believe creationism to be a science. There are institutes for intelligent design and Biblical creationism. Within the creationist theory there are sub theories (such as Biblical old earth, Biblical young earth, deistic creationism, etc...) Intelligent design is scientifically studied and scientifically analyzed. I would strongly argue that the study of intelligent design is a science.


Well, evolution as the source of life is a theory in the same sense that all historical ideas are theory. However, evolution itself is a part of every day life. One example is that I have a friend who raises cattle. His family has done this for generations. They breed their cattle with specific mates to acquire specific results. That’s evolution.

Now, do we know that humans evolved from primates? Not really, that’s a theory. Do we know that the original life forms evolved from primordial slug? No, that’s theory. But, we do know and can prove that evolution and natural selection both exist.






I am not saying don't teach what is true, it is good to discuss natural selection and genetics, but what I am mainly addressing is the theories of evolution (in that life came from proteins and created itself through energy and matter) and also about the origins of the species. I just think they need to remove the bias in schools and not address something as fact unless it is scientific law. They also need to address counter argument for all theories that they choose to teach on, I think this would truly be education and not indoctrination, it makes students critically analyze what information is being presented before them and make a judgment based (hopefully) on their logic and reasoning with the given data.

You do know that laws and theories, in the world Of science a theory is an explanation using mountains of research and facts to back it up to show how something works. Theory in it self is the closest you can get to a fact.
Laws are the Mathmatical ecations that show how something works. In it self is at the same level as.

In your opinion the mathematical equations are more important than the 1000's of times something has been demastrated without fail in a lab, facts, and mountains and mountains of research?
Theories do not become laws and laws do not become theories, there both different, and both are as close as you can get to being a fact in the world of science. (at that A theory is more important that a law.)

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Posted 12/31/08

kotasho wrote:


digs wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:

Hey, this is really impressive. We’ve had four brilliant opinions presented in a mature and adult way without a single flamer.


digs wrote:

I think neither evolution nor creationism should be forced in schools because both have theory status. I think there should be an optional course that discusses evolution and intelligent design (creationism) and talks about the evidence (both supporting and counter evidence) in both theories. As it stands now, evolution is a forced topic to be learned, it is introduced as fact, and no counter arguments are ever put into the text books nor are holes in the theory explained. I think there is an incredible evolutionary bias in schools, and in the pursuit of well rounded education I would advocate teaching both with their supporting evidence and counter arguments. Introducing one theory and calling it fact is not education, but rather indoctrination.

P.S. I believe creationism to be a science. There are institutes for intelligent design and Biblical creationism. Within the creationist theory there are sub theories (such as Biblical old earth, Biblical young earth, deistic creationism, etc...) Intelligent design is scientifically studied and scientifically analyzed. I would strongly argue that the study of intelligent design is a science.


Well, evolution as the source of life is a theory in the same sense that all historical ideas are theory. However, evolution itself is a part of every day life. One example is that I have a friend who raises cattle. His family has done this for generations. They breed their cattle with specific mates to acquire specific results. That’s evolution.

Now, do we know that humans evolved from primates? Not really, that’s a theory. Do we know that the original life forms evolved from primordial slug? No, that’s theory. But, we do know and can prove that evolution and natural selection both exist.






I am not saying don't teach what is true, it is good to discuss natural selection and genetics, but what I am mainly addressing is the theories of evolution (in that life came from proteins and created itself through energy and matter) and also about the origins of the species. I just think they need to remove the bias in schools and not address something as fact unless it is scientific law. They also need to address counter argument for all theories that they choose to teach on, I think this would truly be education and not indoctrination, it makes students critically analyze what information is being presented before them and make a judgment based (hopefully) on their logic and reasoning with the given data.



First, evolution is a theory because it cannot really be proved because the process takes millions of years to even become noticeable and we will never know for certain (most likely) how life began billions of years ago. However, as far as I can tell, creationism has very little real evidence to support it and is the less provable of the two and i do not believe it is science. Therefore, i do not think that creationism should be taught in public schools but there should be a choice about whether or not to teach evolution.
wrong!
You can absurd evolution in bacteria in a matter of days. the fact is Evolution in the Science standard is the closest thing you can get to being a fact. For a science Theory has mountains of research, facts, and has yet to fail any form of testing. If it ever failed or been shown to have holes it goes back to the chop block. Hypothesis is an Idea that has yet been proven one way or another. Thats what people keep mistaking theories as.

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