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***-What IS Goth?-***
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Posted 1/9/09 , edited 3/27/09
The "What IS Goth?" FAQ
-by Sean Osborn

Alright, I am disturbed about the amount of people who are clueless or misinformed about what exactly 'Goth' is, so I took the time to write this FAQ.

What is Goth?
'Goth,' in context, refers to a subculture of people who are fans of a subgenre of post-punk called "Gothic Rock."

Then what is Goth Rock?
Goth Rock was a derivative of the Punk subgenre called "Post-Punk."

Post-Punk, A subgenre of Punk Rock, was popular in the mid-late 70's. Popular bands included The Smiths, Morrissey, Public Image Ltd, The Psychedelic Furs, Echo & The Bunnymen, and Joy Division.

With Joy Division's Rimbaud-inspired lyrics and stylistic approach to the genre, a new genre was inspired. Goth Rock, originally called "Positive Punk" referring to less the less chaotic and negative subjection, was dubbed as such due to the inherent inspiration from Gothic literature and romanticist poetry like Edgar Allen Poe, Arthur Rimbaud, William Wordsworth, George Gordon Byron, William Blake, Oscar Wilde, Charles Baudelaire, John Milton, and even Friedrich Nietzsche.

Bands such as Specimen, Bauhaus, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Sex Gang Children, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, Marche Violets, Danse Society, The Cult, Alien Sex Fiend, and even New Order gathered in clubs such as the famous London Batcave and a culture was born.


Okay, so what exactly is a Goth?
A person who is a fan of the genre Goth Rock and who's lifestyle embodies the aesthetic, poetic, and philosophical concepts conveyed by said music.


I thought Goth was about wearing black and dressing scary, so what about fashion?
In terms of fashion, some goths took after the styles of their favorite band members, others dabbled in fusion, and still others wore anything from all black to bright yellows and pinks to white Tshirts and blue jeans. Contrary to belief, Goth in itself is not a fashion nor was it ever. However, the fashion style that is related to the real 'goth' scene is 25% Victorian/Renaissance inspired, 30% Fetish inspired, and 40% Punk inspired. It's not uncommon to see a goth girl dressed in a corset and skirt combo adorned with safety pins, a ripped leopard-print tank under a spiked and/or studded DIY'd leather jacket, ripped fishnets under combat boots, and a spiked or o-ringed collar and cuffs. Does this make "Goth" a fashion? No.


What ISN'T Goth?
Sadly in the mid 90's the culture became vastly misunderstood due to the spreading ignorance of what were labeled "Mallgawfs."

Mallgawf; A grouping of poseurs who were inspired [fashion and musical tastes] by the likes of Marilyn Manson, Cradle of Filth, Evanescence, Slipknot, and various other Nu Metal, Alternative Metal, and Doom Metal bands. They claimed to be Goth and thus ushered in an age of ignorance.

To any who would claim Goth is about mopey, melancholic, morbid, or 'dark' matters, I offer to you to listen to "Friday I'm In Love" by The Cure and be rightfully corrected.

As for those who believe it to be about non-conformity, just look at some of the bands that make up the genre and be corrected. Non conformity is a silly and flawed concept in that one really just conforms to another set of ideals and norms.

Goth may be more to some people and less to others but the fact is that through it's etymology and thus very definition, it will forever and always be about the music.


Are there different kinds of Goth music?
Yes, there are a handfull of Goth subgenres in existence. Goth comes in two big categories, bands with a first generation sound and bands with a second generation sound.

Batcave, named after the club where Goth Rock got it's start, refers to the original bands which formed what Goth became today. Examples are The Cure, Bauhaus, Specimen, Alien Sex Fiend, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Sex Gang Children, and arguably Joy Division
Deathrock was the first generation of Goth that developed in America. Of all the subgenres its the closest to Punk. Famous Deathrock bands are Christian Death, Kommunity FK and 45 Grave.
Gothic Rock is Goth with some Hard Rock influences, usually with deep male vocals. The most famous bands are The Sisters Of Mercy, Fields Of The Nephilim and The Mission.
Dark Wave is Goth with some ethereal and electronic influences added. Examples of "Gothic Dark Wave" are Clan of Xymox, Cruxshadows, and Frozen Autumn.


Isn't Metal and Rock like Nightwish, Cradle Of Filth, Evanescence, Marilyn Manson, Within Temptation,... Goth?
No, I'm afraid not. Completely different kinds of music. Even Gothic Metal is in fact not Goth, its just a name. This music gets confused a lot cause its also very dark themed. And because a lot of its fans (usually Metalheads) wear black clothing too. Which makes them similar in look to Goths for the casual observer, but in fact even the fashions are completely different.


Isn't electronic music like Combichrist, VNV Nation, Grendel, Covenant, Front 242,... Goth?
Again no, completely different kind of music. This music or its fans (Rivetheads and Cybers usually) don't really resemble Goth anyway. This music gets confused with Goth cause it gets played side by side with Goth on a number of clubnights and festivals. Although this is getting more and more rare.


What other musical genres and prominent bands are wrongly confused with Goth?
Genres:
• Gothic Metal
• Black Metal
• Death Metal
• Nu-Metal
• Industrial
• EBM
• Synthpop
• Futurepop
• “Emo”
• Pagan/Folk Metal
• Symphonic Metal
• Symphonic Power Metal
• Dark Ambient
• Visual Kei


Bands that are mistakenly confused for Goth: HIM, A Perfect Circle, Dimmu Borgir, AFI, Combichrist, Lacuna Coil, Moonspell, Nightwish, Wumpscut, Evanescence, Marilyn Manson, Cradle of Filth, Slipknot, Korn, Emilie Autumn, Andrew W.K., Children of Bodom, Good Charlotte, Hatebreed, Jack Off Jill, In Flames, Kittie, KoRn, Linkin Park, Ministry, Morbid Angel, Mudvayne, Murderdolls, My Chemical Romance, Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Rammstein, Rasputina, Razed In Black, Skinny Puppy, Tool, VNV Nation, Wednesday 13, Deathstars,...


Why didn't I know this yet?
You have been lied to by the media who is mostly ignorant about the subject. In the 80s everyone knew perfectly well what Goth was, even the media. Cause the music and subculture was as good as mainstream for a period. In the 90s when Goth went back underground the trouble started. The media started to confuse Goth with other dark themed music. Or even with anything dark like Vampirism, Satanism and school shootings. Because of that most people today stay completely ignorant of what Goth is. Fortunately you stumbled across one of the few reliable sources here.


Additional Passages

When most people thing "Gothic" they immediately think of dark gloomy depressing things wearing black and worshiping vampirism. This is a blatant misinterpretation.
Gothic Rock was originally called "Positive Punk" because it had a much warmer sound and a less negative subject matter as punk did. The Cure's "Friday I'm In Love" and "Just Like Heaven" are examples of songs that are far from gloomy.

The fashion was not unlike punk albeit a bit refined. Roz Williams and Siouxsie Sioux were among the few more extremes in the fashion. Victorian fashion also found its way into the scene.

Gothic Rock is named as such as it relates to the Romantic movement in the Victorian era. An era which saw the Gothic Revival and the dawn of Gothic Literature [Which was more about love and tragedy than death and doom] and is as thus what some lyrics are inspired by. The philosophy is quite opposite than the widely accepted and distorted version. The philosophy of it is more about finding beauty in all aspects of life. It's realism in a wide perspective.

Dawning in the 90's, a large contributor to the distortion of the image of Gothic Rock, was the ever annoying Gothic Metal that saw bands like Nightwish, Lacuna Coil, Cradle of Filth, and the like. They brought themes like death, darkness, morbidity, and such into the picture, dressing up like vampires and the like.

Thanks to them you see kids on myspace wearing pentagram shirts, with black lipstick and painted fingernails trying to look all evil and shit. And hence they call themselves "Goth" and ruin it for everyone else.

Then there's Marilyn Manson. I am not going to go into his music too much. He isn't the most talented person, he can't sing, but he sounds decent pulling the raspy talking off. Some of his songs are very entertaining no-doubt, and he seems quite the intelligent person. If only he'd mature past trying to shock or offend people for the sake of enjoyment, he might be found to be a great guy.

However, many of his fans were the ones to destroy the image of the original Goth Rock. They are often called "Kindergoffs" or "Mallgoffs" because they are usually Hot Topic shopping kids who call themselves "Goth."

The knowledge of the oldschool Batcavers have been completely raped forever thanks to these people. An entire musical genre filled with brilliant and imaginative artists have been destroyed my uneducated children who want to piss off their mommies and daddies.

And might I add; emo has absolutely no relation or even similarity, for that matter, to Goth. There's plenty of those ignorant of the subject who like to group them together. I don't even truly know what Emo is and admit my ignorance of it, but from what I know about the whining teenage angst it's about and the examples of suburban brats claiming their life sucks and how everyone hates them, they want to die, blah blah etc, I doubt I want to know.

This is no insult to those who like the whole emo thing, it's just my observations and as I have already admitted my ignorance on the subject of emo, the only valid source of knowledge I have is from my own observations.


The Progression of Goth

Introduction
What is Goth? I speak not of the germanic barbarians who sacked rome at the end of the age of antiquity. I speak not of Gothic Literature or Architecture. However, for one to understand what a Goth is one must first understand the music that inspired a culture...

The Music
PUNK
Punk. It was loud. It was chaotic. It was great! Bands like Sex Pistols and The Ramones cited inspirations from The Who and Iggy Pop.

However, in the mid 70's Punk lay dying. You see Punk had a purpose, a specific focus, a goal. Whether that may have been a call to arms against Margarat Thatcher or a call for pure anarchy, that goal had been marginally achieved by this time and so for the spirit of Punk to live on, it had to evolve.

POST-PUNK
And so the spirit of Punk dawned new clothes and lived again in a new genre, Post Punk. However such an existence was as ill-fated and short as it's previous incarnation. Why? Well post-punk was dreary and the same bland sound was regurgitated out over and over again. It was crap. However one could not estimate that such a genre would go anywhere.

One could be so wrong.

Then one bright young man from Manchester would soon change the world forever....

Ian Curtis, the disturbed yet creative young man suffering from epilepsy and the lyricist and frontman for Joy Division had ushered in a new age and a new sound.
Joy Division, was a post-punk band.

GOTHIC ROCK
Joy division had started a new sound, but they were still Post-Punk. Post Punk could not live as this new sound was destined for great things.

Then came a revolution..

The Bauhaus was formed and only 2 months after formation they had a hit. "Bela Lugosi's Dead" was as the bands title implicated, "Stylish, Daring, New."

The spirit of Punk was rejuvenated, but this time it was no longer Punk. It had evolved. And the fans of this music were thus christened "Goths."

Bands like Specimen, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, Sex Gang Children, Siouxsie Sioux and The Banshees, The Mission, The Damned, UK Decay, Alien Sex Fiend, had molded what was to originally be called "Positive Punk" but later renamed "Gothic Rock" inspired by the poetic romanticist movement of the victorian age. The music was thriving. Even The Sex Pistol's former frontman Johnny "Rotten" Lydon joined in with Public Image Ltd.

Goth was alive and well. A whole club was dedicated to honoring and cultivating this sound, it was called "The Bat Cave." Subgenres such as Deathrock, Darkwave, and EBM sprouted out and gave birth to even more subgenres.


Example of Goth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RWb-8Izv0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORc5Td_T6og
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNobN73F2JY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a_YQXFs7Ts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yTIpcwBTTs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boinZ5BIlkw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuezNswtRfo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROnXv7Z7v28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFPlEpi__wc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOPEIMpJQ4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNcpasj__WY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilBjc3wWwDA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu8fuXt3Z38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbXZXhy8lgE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYYy862KFyE
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Posted 1/9/09
Hilarious thread. Would read again.

Oh and Adrian Eldrasson who was the drummer for Cradle of Filth has more talent in his left testicle than any of these "Goth" bands.
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Posted 1/9/09
i dont feel like reading it =_=
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Posted 1/9/09

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:






i'm glad you posted this. but don't attack the bands. i happen to like goth music and the "awful mallgaff" bands. it's not the band's fault that posers want to call themselves "goth". i mean would you expect cradle of filth (black metal) or evanescence (pop-nu metal-with-goth-flare) to give a public service announcement that says "hey if you like our music, guess what... you're not goth."?
besides maybe music evolved and you didn't notice just like how we came from the 'blues' to 'hard rock' to 'metal'. in case you didn't notice most of the bands you listed as goth are like 20 to 30 years old
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Posted 1/10/09 , edited 1/10/09
As stated above, I like bands that are considered to be "goth rock" and its various subgenres (such as Sisters of Mercy, London After Midnight, and Aural Vampire, if they can be considered as such). But, I have to disagree with you on the subject of gothic metal and what you deem "mallgawf" bands. Most bands in these genres do not call themselves "goth." While the members are also fans of goth music and so incorporate elements of goth rock or what have you into their own music, they consider themselves a metal band first and foremost, the "gothic" part is just an adjective, like the "death" in death metal. Type O Negative even wrote a song parodying the stereotypical goth girl so as to further themselves from being considered "goth" music. As mentioned above, it's not the band's fault that some of their fans are 'tards who don't know the difference between metal and goth.

Maybe the music is just not your cup of tea, and I hope that this is the case and that is why you called the music "awful," not because of the fans who are too dumb to do their research on what "goth" actually is.

I have to admit, I was a stupid high school "goth" kid. But I did my research, listened to the classic goth rock bands, and discovered that while I do like many of the bands and still have a soft spot for the gothic subculture because it came at such a volatile and impressionable part of my life, my heart was still rooted in the metal scene. Sorry.

And don't fret, emo is the new "gawth." The tweenagers are chasing after that alterna-boat and soon the gothic subculture will be able to dance to Christian Death in peace.
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Posted 1/10/09 , edited 1/10/09

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:

I'm disturbed by the amount of people who are ignorant on the subject and do nothing but expound more ignorance which then spreads.

What IS Goth Rock?

'Goth' in context refers to a subculture of people [or said people] who are fans of a subgenre of post-punk called "Gothic Rock."

Post-Punk, A subgenre of Punk Rock, was popular in the mid-late 70's. Popular bands included The Smiths, Morrissey, Public Image Ltd, The Psychedelic Furs, Echo & The Bunnymen, and Joy Division.

With Joy Division's Rimbaud-inspired lyrics and stylistic approach to the genre, a new genre was inspired. Goth Rock, originally called "Positive Punk" referring to less the less chaotic and negative subjection, was dubbed as such due to the inherent inspiration from Gothic literature and romanticist poetry like Edgar Allen Poe, Arthur Rimbaud, William Wordsworth, George Gordon Byron, William Blake, Oscar Wilde, Charles Baudelaire, John Milton, and even Friedrich Nietzsche.

Bands such as Specimen, Bauhaus, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Sex Gang Children, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, Marche Violets, Danse Society, The Cult, Alien Sex Fiend, and even New Order gathered in clubs such as the famous London Batcave and a culture was born.

In terms of fashion, some goths took after the styles of their favorite band members, others dabbled in fusion, and still others wore anything from bright yellows and pinks to white Tshirts and blue jeans. Contrary to belief, Goth is not a fashion nor was it ever.


What ISN'T Goth?

Sadly in the mid 90's the culture became vastly misunderstood due to the spreading ignorance of what were labeled "Mallgawfs."

Mallgawf; A grouping of poseurs who were inspired [fashion and musical tastes] by the likes of Marilyn Manson, Cradle of Filth, Evanescence, Slipknot, and various other Nu Metal, Alternative Metal, and Doom Metal bands. They claimed to be Goth and thus ushered in an age of ignorance.

To any poseurs who claim Goth is about mopey, melancholic, morbid, or 'dark' matters, I offer to you to listen to "Friday I'm In Love" by The Cure and be rightfully corrected.
As for those who believe it to be about non-conformity, just look at some of the bands that make up the genre and be corrected. Non conformity is a silly and flawed concept in that one really just conforms to another set of ideals and norms.
Goth may be more to some people and less to others but the fact is that through it's etymology and thus very definition, it will forever and always be about the music.

Additional Passages

When most people thing "Gothic" they immediately think of dark gloomy depressing things wearing black and worshiping vampirism. This is a blatant misinterpretation.
Gothic Rock was originally called "Positive Punk" because it had a much warmer sound and a less negative subject matter as punk did. The Cure's "Friday I'm In Love" and "Just Like Heaven" are examples of songs that are far from gloomy. The fashion was not unlike punk albeit a bit refined. Roz Williams and Siouxsie Sioux were among the few more extremes in the fashion. Victorian fashion also found its way into the scene.

Gothic Rock is named as such as it relates to the Romantic movement in the Victorian era. An era which saw the Gothic Revival and the dawn of Gothic Literature [Which was more about love and tragedy than death and doom] and is as thus what some lyrics are inspired by. The philosophy is quite opposite than the widely accepted and distorted version. The philosophy of it is more about finding beauty in all aspects of life. It's realism in a wide perspective.

Dawning in the 90's, a large contributor to the distortion of the image of Gothic Rock, was the ever annoying Gothic Metal that saw bands like Nightwish, Lacuna Coil, Cradle of Filth, and the like. They brought themes like death, and darkness, and satanism, and paganism, and such into the picture, dressing up like vampires and the like.
Thanks to them you see kids on myspace wearing pentagram shirts, with black lipstick and painted fingernails trying to look all evil and shit. And hence they call themselves "Goth" and ruin it for everyone else.

Then there's Marilyn Manson. I am not going to go into his music too much. He isn't the most talented person, he can't sing, but he sounds decent pulling the raspy talking off. Some of his songs are very entertaining no-doubt, and he seems quite the intelligent person. If only he'd mature past trying to shock or offend people for the sake of enjoyment, he might be found to be a great guy.
However, many of his fans were the ones to destroy the image of the original Gothic Rock. They are often called "Kindergoffs" or "Mallgoffs" because they are usually Hot Topic shopping kids who call themselves "Goth."

The knowledge of the oldschool Batcavers have been completely raped forever thanks to these people. An entire musical genre filled with brilliant and imaginative artists have been destroyed my uneducated children who want to piss off their mommies and daddies.

And might I add; emo has absolutely no relation or even similarity, for that matter, to Goth. There's plenty of those ignorant of the subject who like to group them together. I don't even truly know what Emo is and admit my ignorance of it, but from what I know about the whining teenage angst it's about and the examples of suburban brats claiming their life sucks and how everyone hates them, they want to die, blah blah etc, I doubt I want to know.
This is no insult to those who like the whole emo thing, it's just my observations and as I have already admitted my ignorance on the subject of emo, the only valid source of knowledge I have is from my own observations.








The Progression of Goth
~Introduction~

What is Goth? I speak not of the germanic barbarians who sacked rome at the end of the age of antiquity. I speak not of Gothic Literature or Architecture. However, for one to understand what a Goth is one must first understand the music that inspired a culture...


~The Music~

PUNK
Punk. It was loud. It was chaotic. It was great! Bands like Sex Pistols and The Ramones cited inspirations from The Who and Iggy Pop.
However, in the mid 70's Punk lay dying. You see Punk had a purpose, a specific focus, a goal. Whether that may have been a call to arms against Margarat Thatcher or a call for pure anarchy, that goal had been marginally achieved by this time and so for the spirit of Punk to live on, it had to evolve.


POST-PUNK
And so the spirit of Punk dawned new clothes and lived again in a new genre, Post Punk. However such an existence was as ill-fated and short as it's previous incarnation. Why? Well post-punk was dreary and the same bland sound was regurgitated out over and over again. It was crap. However one could not estimate that such a genre would go anywhere.
One could be so wrong.

Then one bright young man from Manchester would soon change the world forever....

Ian Curtis, the disturbed yet creative young man suffering from epilepsy and the lyricist and frontman for Joy Division had ushered in a new age and a new sound.
Joy Division, was a post-punk band.


GOTHIC ROCK
Joy division had started a new sound, but they were still Post-Punk. Post Punk could not live as this new sound was destined for great things.

Then came a revolution..

The Bauhaus was formed and only 2 months after formation they had a hit. "Bela Lugosi's Dead" was as the bands title implicated, "Stylish, Daring, New."

The spirit of Punk was rejuvenated, but this time it was no longer Punk. It had evolved. And the fans of this music were thus christened "Goths."

Bands like Specimen, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, Sex Gang Children, Siouxsie Sioux and The Banshees, The Mission, The Damned, UK Decay, Alien Sex Fiend, had molded what was to originally be called "Positive Punk" but later renamed "Gothic Rock" inspired by the poetic romanticist movement of the victorian age. The music was thriving. Even The Sex Pistol's former frontman Johnny "Rotten" Lydon joined in with Public Image Ltd.

Goth was alive and well. A whole club was dedicated to honoring and cultivating this sound, it was called "The Bat Cave." Subgenres such as Deathrock, Darkwave, and EBM sprouted out and gave birth to even more subgenres.


GOTHIC METAL
Then in the mid 90's something horrific happened...

Music was destroyed. Bands with no meaning and no depth and no talent like Slipknot, Cradle of Filth, Marilyn Manson, Nightwish, and the like had been dubbed "Gothic Metal" and soon teen kids who didn't understand music succumbed to this crap and started calling themselves "Goths" and expressed this by wearing all black and wearing makeup and all that crap. Real Goths were embarrassed and angered and called these posers "Mallgawfs"




~The Culture~

Ah so you get the music. Now naturally "Goth" ended up being more than just being fans of the music. It evolved, just like the music, but was often misunderstood.
You see, goths were not characterized by wearing all black and makeup. There were all colors shapes and sizes. Fashion slowly was established based on the fashion of their favorite bands. But just as if one wore the fashion would not make them goth, goths did not neccesarily have to wear the fashion to be goths.

Another misunderstanding is that Goth [the aesthetics and the music] is morbid and depressing and melancholic. Well maybe there is some melancholy in there, but it is not all doom and gloom like the poserish Gothic Metal is. It is artistic and actually is the opposite of depression, most goths characterized by understanding that there is beauty in all things. To anyone who thinks otherwise, listen to the song "Friday I'm In Love" by The Cure. Tell me if that's depressing, morbid, or any such thing.

I write this, as a long time member of the culture. I do not call myself a goth as such is a misunderstood title and as the great Rozz Williams once put it; "No self respecting goth would call themselves such." A paradox, no? So I wrote this to enlighten those who are misled, or misunderstand the culture or are innocently ignorant of it.


Discuss!

Now that we have established what goth 'IS' and 'ISN'T' we can move on to matters of the discussion.

What is your favorite Goth bands?
What are the effects of the lyrical and musical inspiration on you or those around you?
What are your musings and opinions about the music?
What are the aspects of the lifestyle that you have come to know?

Feel free to discuss any related aspect of the subject.

Also I would like to suggest to any followers of the culture to check out 'Gothic Subculture' http://www.crunchyroll.com/group/Gothic_Subculture as there's a place to find like-minded people.




well, i'm a dark music lover and this includes heavy metal, death industrial, and dark goth. I believe through years music genres have evolved very much and are now to be considered flexible. Meaning, you can't expect a gothic song to be just goth rock or plainly how its name describes it, genres tend to mix up now a days just like how a single movie is categorized into many movie genres. There is the goth music accompanied by industrial or heavy metal, or rap even more. There is what we call music evolution.
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Posted 1/10/09
The evolution of music doesn't work that way.

Genres remain the same. They are blended or evolve into different genres.

For example; Jazz is a fusion of Ragtime and Blues. After it's creation, that didn't mean Blues and Ragtime ceased to be.

Genres are there to classify music. They may evolve into new genres but they never cease being what they are.
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Posted 1/10/09
Oh man, I couldn't read it all since my eyes are red (cuz of lack of sleep and it hurts like hell =.='') but for the parts I read I guess I understand (even if just a little bit) what Goth is now... thanx for explaining.
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Posted 3/21/09

mokney wrote:

Hilarious thread. Would read again.

Oh and Adrian Eldrasson who was the drummer for Cradle of Filth has more talent in his left testicle than any of these "Goth" bands.


What's funny is I doubt you've ever even heard any of these "Goth" bands.
What's even more funny is the fact that if Erlandson has any talent, he sure doesn't use it. He tricks and just does a bunch of kickdrumming.
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Posted 3/21/09
put a fucking spoiler on that ._.
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Posted 3/21/09
Wrong.

The correct answer is, "Shit."
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Posted 3/21/09 , edited 3/21/09

Ice_Blue_Eyes wrote:

Non conformity is a silly and flawed concept in that one really just conforms to another set of ideals and norms.


That is the most beautiful sentence I ever heard. Could not agree more with that statement.

This was a very interesting read. I had wondered how the mainstream version of Goth related to the Victorian era that was not at all dark and gloomy. I see now that just like a lot of things it's just been distorted and misunderstood. Even so, I absolutely hate this perception of Goths as all angry and depressed when the goths I knew were actually pretty nice and cheery people who were just into the "gothic" style and music. And thanks to the likes of "punk" rockers like Avril (though I still like her music), punks were given that perception too.

Now Emos are a totally different story, which is why I can't stand when people mix them up with Goths. One of my best friends is one and it's a little difficult to be around her at times, especially when she goes into one of her "my life sucks" spells. I'll admit, that I like some of the Emo fashion but everything else about them just completely turns me off (feel free to change my mind, if you can).

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Posted 3/21/09
Isn't goth about rage, anger and hatred?
Posted 3/21/09
.__.

Thanks for the information which ish useless .__.
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Posted 3/21/09
Goth to me is wearing a black leather jacket with chokers in the middle of summer
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