Wow, a topic full of information on one topic. I <3 it o.0
Fuck gravity, I wanna fly.
For me, Goth is someone/something that lacks bright colors or a cheery attitude.
I think that's somewhat related to "Emo".
very well said
I havent been on in about 1 year or so on CR o:
There are just as many misconceptions about the place where the term "goth" originated; gothic architecture. When you say those words, people think 'ugh!, gloomy, old churches, but they're wrong. Romanesque churches are 'gloomy', and gothic are the ones with tall spires, lots of tall windows, and especially those gorgeous stained glass "rose" windows which are round. There's nothing 'gloomy' about them any more than there is about "goths" or "goth" music. I will try to post a picture of a gothic cathedral to my photo album and then you can see for yourself. By the way, the person who has this thread is very intelligent and well informed.
Music is Universal; there are no language barriers
i feel like ive been a poser for 2 years now i read that........
expect the poetry since i still write some
didnt know where the goth music came from
thanks for the information
im mostly on msn... add me [email protected]
I'm disturbed by the amount of people who are ignorant on the subject and do nothing but expound more ignorance which then spreads.
What IS Goth Rock?
'Goth' in context refers to a subculture of people [or said people] who are fans of a subgenre of post-punk called "Gothic Rock."
Post-Punk, A subgenre of Punk Rock, was popular in the mid-late 70's. Popular bands included The Smiths, Morrissey, Public Image Ltd, The Psychedelic Furs, Echo & The Bunnymen, and Joy Division.
With Joy Division's Rimbaud-inspired lyrics and stylistic approach to the genre, a new genre was inspired. Goth Rock, originally called "Positive Punk" referring to less the less chaotic and negative subjection, was dubbed as such due to the inherent inspiration from Gothic literature and romanticist poetry like Edgar Allen Poe, Arthur Rimbaud, William Wordsworth, George Gordon Byron, William Blake, Oscar Wilde, Charles Baudelaire, John Milton, and even Friedrich Nietzsche.
Bands such as Specimen, Bauhaus, Siouxsie & The Banshees, Sex Gang Children, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, Marche Violets, Danse Society, The Cult, Alien Sex Fiend, and even New Order gathered in clubs such as the famous London Batcave and a culture was born.
In terms of fashion, some goths took after the styles of their favorite band members, others dabbled in fusion, and still others wore anything from bright yellows and pinks to white Tshirts and blue jeans. Contrary to belief, Goth is not a fashion nor was it ever.
What ISN'T Goth?
Sadly in the mid 90's the culture became vastly misunderstood due to the spreading ignorance of what were labeled "Mallgawfs."
Mallgawf; A grouping of poseurs who were inspired [fashion and musical tastes] by the likes of Marilyn Manson, Cradle of Filth, Evanescence, Slipknot, and various other Nu Metal, Alternative Metal, and Doom Metal bands. They claimed to be Goth and thus ushered in an age of ignorance.
To any poseurs who claim Goth is about mopey, melancholic, morbid, or 'dark' matters, I offer to you to listen to "Friday I'm In Love" by The Cure and be rightfully corrected.
As for those who believe it to be about non-conformity, just look at some of the bands that make up the genre and be corrected. Non conformity is a silly and flawed concept in that one really just conforms to another set of ideals and norms.
Goth may be more to some people and less to others but the fact is that through it's etymology and thus very definition, it will forever and always be about the music.
When most people thing "Gothic" they immediately think of dark gloomy depressing things wearing black and worshiping vampirism. This is a blatant misinterpretation.
Gothic Rock was originally called "Positive Punk" because it had a much warmer sound and a less negative subject matter as punk did. The Cure's "Friday I'm In Love" and "Just Like Heaven" are examples of songs that are far from gloomy. The fashion was not unlike punk albeit a bit refined. Roz Williams and Siouxsie Sioux were among the few more extremes in the fashion. Victorian fashion also found its way into the scene.
Gothic Rock is named as such as it relates to the Romantic movement in the Victorian era. An era which saw the Gothic Revival and the dawn of Gothic Literature [Which was more about love and tragedy than death and doom] and is as thus what some lyrics are inspired by. The philosophy is quite opposite than the widely accepted and distorted version. The philosophy of it is more about finding beauty in all aspects of life. It's realism in a wide perspective.
Dawning in the 90's, a large contributor to the distortion of the image of Gothic Rock, was the ever annoying Gothic Metal that saw bands like Nightwish, Lacuna Coil, Cradle of Filth, and the like. They brought themes like death, and darkness, and satanism, and paganism, and such into the picture, dressing up like vampires and the like.
Thanks to them you see kids on myspace wearing pentagram shirts, with black lipstick and painted fingernails trying to look all evil and shit. And hence they call themselves "Goth" and ruin it for everyone else.
Then there's Marilyn Manson. I am not going to go into his music too much. He isn't the most talented person, he can't sing, but he sounds decent pulling the raspy talking off. Some of his songs are very entertaining no-doubt, and he seems quite the intelligent person. If only he'd mature past trying to shock or offend people for the sake of enjoyment, he might be found to be a great guy.
However, many of his fans were the ones to destroy the image of the original Gothic Rock. They are often called "Kindergoffs" or "Mallgoffs" because they are usually Hot Topic shopping kids who call themselves "Goth."
The knowledge of the oldschool Batcavers have been completely raped forever thanks to these people. An entire musical genre filled with brilliant and imaginative artists have been destroyed my uneducated children who want to piss off their mommies and daddies.
And might I add; emo has absolutely no relation or even similarity, for that matter, to Goth. There's plenty of those ignorant of the subject who like to group them together. I don't even truly know what Emo is and admit my ignorance of it, but from what I know about the whining teenage angst it's about and the examples of suburban brats claiming their life sucks and how everyone hates them, they want to die, blah blah etc, I doubt I want to know.
This is no insult to those who like the whole emo thing, it's just my observations and as I have already admitted my ignorance on the subject of emo, the only valid source of knowledge I have is from my own observations.
The Progression of Goth
What is Goth? I speak not of the germanic barbarians who sacked rome at the end of the age of antiquity. I speak not of Gothic Literature or Architecture. However, for one to understand what a Goth is one must first understand the music that inspired a culture...
Punk. It was loud. It was chaotic. It was great! Bands like Sex Pistols and The Ramones cited inspirations from The Who and Iggy Pop.
However, in the mid 70's Punk lay dying. You see Punk had a purpose, a specific focus, a goal. Whether that may have been a call to arms against Margarat Thatcher or a call for pure anarchy, that goal had been marginally achieved by this time and so for the spirit of Punk to live on, it had to evolve.
And so the spirit of Punk dawned new clothes and lived again in a new genre, Post Punk. However such an existence was as ill-fated and short as it's previous incarnation. Why? Well post-punk was dreary and the same bland sound was regurgitated out over and over again. It was crap. However one could not estimate that such a genre would go anywhere.
One could be so wrong.
Then one bright young man from Manchester would soon change the world forever....
Ian Curtis, the disturbed yet creative young man suffering from epilepsy and the lyricist and frontman for Joy Division had ushered in a new age and a new sound.
Joy Division, was a post-punk band.
Joy division had started a new sound, but they were still Post-Punk. Post Punk could not live as this new sound was destined for great things.
Then came a revolution..
The Bauhaus was formed and only 2 months after formation they had a hit. "Bela Lugosi's Dead" was as the bands title implicated, "Stylish, Daring, New."
The spirit of Punk was rejuvenated, but this time it was no longer Punk. It had evolved. And the fans of this music were thus christened "Goths."
Bands like Specimen, Sisters of Mercy, The Cure, Sex Gang Children, Siouxsie Sioux and The Banshees, The Mission, The Damned, UK Decay, Alien Sex Fiend, had molded what was to originally be called "Positive Punk" but later renamed "Gothic Rock" inspired by the poetic romanticist movement of the victorian age. The music was thriving. Even The Sex Pistol's former frontman Johnny "Rotten" Lydon joined in with Public Image Ltd.
Goth was alive and well. A whole club was dedicated to honoring and cultivating this sound, it was called "The Bat Cave." Subgenres such as Deathrock, Darkwave, and EBM sprouted out and gave birth to even more subgenres.
Then in the mid 90's something horrific happened...
Music was destroyed. Bands with no meaning and no depth and no talent like Slipknot, Cradle of Filth, Marilyn Manson, Nightwish, and the like had been dubbed "Gothic Metal" and soon teen kids who didn't understand music succumbed to this crap and started calling themselves "Goths" and expressed this by wearing all black and wearing makeup and all that crap. Real Goths were embarrassed and angered and called these posers "Mallgawfs"
Ah so you get the music. Now naturally "Goth" ended up being more than just being fans of the music. It evolved, just like the music, but was often misunderstood.
You see, goths were not characterized by wearing all black and makeup. There were all colors shapes and sizes. Fashion slowly was established based on the fashion of their favorite bands. But just as if one wore the fashion would not make them goth, goths did not neccesarily have to wear the fashion to be goths.
Another misunderstanding is that Goth [the aesthetics and the music] is morbid and depressing and melancholic. Well maybe there is some melancholy in there, but it is not all doom and gloom like the poserish Gothic Metal is. It is artistic and actually is the opposite of depression, most goths characterized by understanding that there is beauty in all things. To anyone who thinks otherwise, listen to the song "Friday I'm In Love" by The Cure. Tell me if that's depressing, morbid, or any such thing.
I write this, as a long time member of the culture. I do not call myself a goth as such is a misunderstood title and as the great Rozz Williams once put it; "No self respecting goth would call themselves such." A paradox, no? So I wrote this to enlighten those who are misled, or misunderstand the culture or are innocently ignorant of it.
Now that we have established what goth 'IS' and 'ISN'T' we can move on to matters of the discussion.
What is your favorite Goth bands?
What are the effects of the lyrical and musical inspiration on you or those around you?
What are your musings and opinions about the music?
What are the aspects of the lifestyle that you have come to know?
Feel free to discuss any related aspect of the subject.
Also I would like to suggest to any followers of the culture to check out 'Gothic Subculture' http://www.crunchyroll.com/group/Gothic_Subculture as there's a place to find like-minded people.
i'm glad you posted this. but don't attack the bands. i happen to like goth music and the "awful mallgaff" bands. it's not the band's fault that posers want to call themselves "goth". i mean would you expect cradle of filth (black metal) or evanescence (pop-nu metal-with-goth-flare) to give a public service announcement that says "hey if you like our music, guess what... you're not goth."?
besides maybe music evolved and you didn't notice just like how we came from the 'blues' to 'hard rock' to 'metal'. in case you didn't notice most of the bands you listed as goth are like 20 to 30 years old
I don't think he's really attacking theese other bands, but rather informing us of the original "Goth" I honestly don't feel he's attacking Evenesence or Nightwish (Which are some of the best bands ever)
For me, Goth is someone/something that lacks bright colors or a cheery attitude.
I think that's somewhat related to "Emo".
True. But Goth isn't emo, and i think you understand that. But I'd like to make that point that it is difficult to name what is unique about 'emo' that seperates them from goth. It's like Moe'. You only understand it if ur an otaku. ^.^