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Want to help Palestinian victims? Help Israel!
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31 / M / auckland
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Posted 1/10/09
btw.

in other words? you created a thread about Israel-Palestinian conflict and found your opinion to be immensely unpopular there and try to start a fresh new one.

nice.

and lol. it's funny how neo-cons like you. or whatever it is you call yourself these days. Will actually believe that Israel/America is PURELY innocent in terms of their foreign policy. They can never do wrong. And the fault always lies on those islamic people. Since supposedly they fire rockets and shoot innocent Israeli's civilian every single second, roast jewish new-born babies and eat their kidney, all because the qur'an told them to. You will actually believe that every single war and conflict between Israel and Palestine was caused by the Palestinian. And Israel is always the angelic, pure and innocent nation, always victimized by the brutal and barbaric muslim people.

I mean like.. don't it ever occur to you that no matter which government it is. Palestinian or Israelis. Radical muslims or zionist. Will always be full of shit when they tell THEIR side of the story to serve their own self-interest?? or maybe you believe that only Israel have this magical quality that renders them totally incapable of doing so??

I'm just speechless. Reading your post left me totally amazed with how retarded some people are.
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17 / M / yamaku
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Posted 1/10/09

supermalv wrote:

I'm just speechless.


OBVIOUSLY NOT
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23 / M / Singapore
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Posted 1/10/09

supermalv wrote:

btw.

in other words? you created a thread about Israel-Palestinian conflict and found your opinion to be immensely unpopular there and try to start a fresh new one.

nice.

and lol. it's funny how neo-cons like you. or whatever it is you call yourself these days. Will actually believe that Israel/America is PURELY innocent in terms of their foreign policy. They can never do wrong. And the fault always lies on those islamic people. Since supposedly they fire rockets and shoot innocent Israeli's civilian every single second, roast jewish new-born babies and eat their kidney, all because the qur'an told them to. You will actually believe that every single war and conflict between Israel and Palestine was caused by the Palestinian. And Israel is always the angelic, pure and innocent nation, always victimized by the brutal and barbaric muslim people.

I mean like.. don't it ever occur to you that no matter which government it is. Palestinian or Israelis. Radical muslims or zionist. Will always be full of shit when they tell THEIR side of the story to serve their own self-interest?? or maybe you believe that only Israel have this magical quality that renders them totally incapable of doing so??

I'm just speechless. Reading your post left me totally amazed with how retarded some people are.


who u refering to lol?
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24 / location location...
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Posted 1/10/09
I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.
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17 / M / yamaku
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Posted 1/10/09

makimaki_sataandagi wrote:

I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.


Are you a people?
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Posted 1/10/09

h3ntie wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:

I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.


Are you a people?


what? yes I am a person and I am ignorant too. But there are limits for me.
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17 / M / yamaku
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Posted 1/10/09

makimaki_sataandagi wrote:


h3ntie wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:

I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.


Are you a people?


what? yes I am a person


O ok just wondering.
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24 / F / Leading your nigh...
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Posted 1/11/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:

Israel lies. They say the escort them, but a woman was brought on the news from Gaza and she said her sons, their wives and kids were all put into one has and then killed. They're just hiding behind being the victims, Hamas are not the victims and israel are not the victims eaither... the civilians are... all of them from both sides.

Don't believe any of the bullshit coming from the news, youtube or whatever, no ones innocent.


Did you even read my entire post, or did you just get to that paragraph? I never said Israel was the good guy or that Israel was innocent. I said that Israel is the best chance Gaza has. Actually, I expressed my disdain for Israel. Anyway, that’s a load of crap. I want to see a source.


LOL, I wasn't saying it to you, I was generalizing it. Sorry if it seemed like I was saying it to you.

Heres the source

http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/3/1666-shock-awe-and-lies-the-truth-behind-the-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/2009/01/20091585448204690.html

search aljazeera they've got a whole bunch of info, it was on the radio it's going to take a while to find, but when i do ill have it up, you cant say something is a load of crap, that's just showing your not willing to accept facts outside of your 'domain'.
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Posted 1/11/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

So, that is why I support Israel and want the war to finish. I want a victor to be clear. I don't want Palestine defeated, I want Hamas defeated. I'm for a war on Hamas, not Palestine. I think that if Western powers insist on getting involved then they should do so by rooting out Hamas and forcing them away from civilian population centers. What are your thoughts?



^ Attacking a densely populated civilian area is not rooting out Hamas its more like a recruitment ground for them... a vicious cycle... in years to come the new born terrorists need to be rooted out too... while they were the young children who had to sacrifice their family because the previous terrorists needed to be rooted out... A fact that many Jews abroad are aware of and have therefore called on israel to negotiate a ceasefire.

History shows violence breeds violence there is no such thing as peace through violence (albeit if there is, it is with very unstable foundations). Collateral damage may be an easy thing to accept sitting miles away from its effects but if you were directly affected by it you would not accept it... so I find it hypocritical to standby... The amount of civilians killed in Palestine at the moment far exceeds that of even an excuse of collateral damage. The fact that reporters are not freely allowed in eludes to the fact that they cannot guarantee saftey for them.

If everything is allowed in the name of self-defence then Hamas was also formed in the name of self-defence ( The uprising against Israel's occupation in the West Bank and Gaza in 1987). ( Note: Iam not defending Hamas or their actions, I'm merely stating that self-defence is not a good enough excuse to kill the innocent in the process).

I commend you for your open method of writing, however having read some of your posts (admittedly not all of them) your open style of writing is not matched with an open mind, but a fixed output. Anyways those are my thoughts.

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Posted 1/11/09

makimaki_sataandagi wrote:

I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.


FIRST of all you actually believe what you hear on CNN, alright thats just a bunch of liberal shit which is controlled by Jews in fact 96% of media is owned by Jews such as the owners of CNN which is the Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. In other words its obviously a sack of biased bull shit. Hamas does NOT hide behind its civilians, there defending there civilians. Why else would they risk there lives to go off and fight for there innocent people. I'm not defending Hamas but no civilian deserves to die from either sides.

Trust me even if a civilian had his hands up, the Israeli soldier would still shoot and claim to have done it because of self defense. You're unable to say that because you've never lived there and seen with your own two eyes whats going on there. All we have is the media... and we know how they always spout out lies and BS.
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28 / F / Morocco
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Posted 1/11/09 , edited 1/11/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


marie_2902 wrote:

The problem isn't being emotionnal & isn't that Hamas is dangerous for palastianians,(hamas entered the elections & won democratically ,hamas expressed its accepation to all the agrements & showed its will to negoatiate with israel,but israel refused completely to negotiate & started to divide palastinains:A little side civil war between hamas & fath started,isreal supported fath -that was a premier-against hamas,hamas made the coup d'etat in Gaza & then israel,cutted supplies & electricity,hamas threw rockets,& the end of the story is known)


First I would like to say that I'd really like to have an intelligent discussion with you. You seem to have some legit opinions and unlike some of these other people aren't pulling the "your stupid," or "I'm too good to take this serious," card to cover up for their lack of arguement. You seem to actually read my post and take the time to write a reasonably lengthed post.

However, I have some trouble understanding you. I'm not sure if English is your second language but please use a spell check progrom. Also, please indent paragraphs to seperate text.

Anyway, your information here is wrong on several notes:

Hamas gained power democratically?

In June 2007 Hamas launched a coup against Fatah rule in Gaza Strip and ceased power through military force. Hamas is a fascistic faction like Fatah. Fascism is the ideology of using force to attain the greater good. A left wing dictatorship is communism. A right wing dictatorship is a military dictatorship. This is what we call Fascism. Hamas has already announced that it is a fascistic and theocratic faction. In other words they’ve openly admitted that they intend to keep their rule in Gaza-attained through a military uprising, a coup-by force if necessary.

Gaza did not willingly submit to Hamas. Hamas has gained a wave of support elsewhere in Palestine through ‘charities,’ that essentially amounted to bribery. In return for their support starving communities were given food and water. You can look it up yourself and you will see that the denizens of Gaza do not like, trust, or support Hamas.

Fatah had power of Gaza. Hamas took it through a coup-not an election.

Hamas Agreed to Negotiate?

Hamas agreed to consider a temporary cease fire but announced that it has no ultimate goal of ceasing its attacks on Israel. In other words, they agreed to allow Israel to back off and give them time to reorganize their numbers and then continue missile fire.


Israel Refused to Negotiate Completely?

This is actually partially true. Neither side was completely willing to compromise with the extreme demands of the other side.

Some demands Israel refused Hamas:

-Israel tear down walls

-Israel return cities Hamas considers Palestinian such as Acre

-UN officials monitor Israeli activity but not Hamas activity.

Some demands Hamas refused Israel:

-Hamas destroys tunnels used for smuggling weapons.

-Hamas cease firing missiles into Israel.

-Hamas allow UN officials to monitor their activity and enforce the cease fire.

Hamas seeks peace?

The Hamas politicians have continuously expressed that they have no intention of a lasting peace. The Hamas Charter itself-their ‘Constitution,’-cites out of text Surah from the Qur’an to tell Muslims that they are obliged to kill Jews. From an Islamic perspective this is clearly absurd. However, Hamas by its own Charter cannot and will not ever pursue real peace with Israel. They are obliged to destroy it.

So long as they exist they will try to do so. Israel will always retaliate. Israel is also a more effective war machine which means the Palestinians will continue to die as long as Hamas exists.

Hamas wanting to protect their persecuted people?

Hamas is a theocratic institution, not a nationalistic one. In other words their pursuit is religious absolutism and not liberation. Liberation is a propaganda issue. Again theocratic institute worries about its religion. Nationalistic institute worries about its people. Both are dangerous, but Fatah can actually protect its people-that is! Of course, if Hamas is destroyed.




Hamas gained power democratically?
All the world adknowledged that Hamas gained democratically the elections & for that,Hania was named prime minister,everybody was surprised when hamas won even palastinians(i think that time,Killing the spiritual leader of Hamas Cheikh Yassine by Israel gave Hamas not bad popularity toward Fath who was accused back then for many scandals);Israel back then refused completely the results of elections, the tension between Hamas & Fath increased while the Israeli seige is getting stronger & fiercer,Fath called for early elections & Hamas refused,talks about a "national union " palastinians government was going further until Hamas commited the deadely mistake:Coup d'etat in Gaza(Hamas felt treathen ,we don't have to forget the Israeli strike on Lebanon -to free the two soldiers,& which caused many dammage to lebanon,& soldiers were back by negotiations after that,-& the issue of the soldier Gelaad Chalit),Israel supported Fath against Hamas but no results,so,due to the siege & other reasons hamas thrw rockets on Israel & here we are:More than 700 causualities amoung palastinians while the israelis are just 3 or 2,can't remember!
Hamas Agreed to Negotiate?
As far as i know Hamas was ready for negotiations with Israel,i remember that when Hamas decided to enter elections two years ago Khalid Mechal expressed his hopes for negotiations with israel & for an agreement that give palastinians their right t have their own country,no one actually expected that hamas will win & the contacts between Hamas & Fath back then was about how to garentee Hamas integration into the political process(because Hamas was mainely a military mouvement),Hamas wanted to participate in the talks about palastinian future especially that they were many hopes of the declaration of palastine as state(we all remember how Israel talked about real moves toward palastinian state , how it wants the intifada's end & everything will settle after the palastinian elections),when hamas won,Isreal refused even the possibility of negotiations,yes,i admit there are many diffrences between israeli view & hamas view about the conflit but,would it hurt if they tried????

Israel Refused to Negotiate Completely?
I agree that both sides refused to give compromises ,but during the whole history of the conflit always palastinian side compromised ,Israel isn't at all generous when it comes to real steps toward peace,day after day Israel says something & does other things completely the opposite on land,at least Hamas is honest about itself & doesn't give the wrong impression!


Hamas seeks peace?
After this strike i doubt that hamas will seak peace,it's an obvious & fierce strike to end Hamas ,frankly,israel should have thought millions of times if it can destroy hamas before doing this move(like u try to kill someone but then u fail,how do u think this one will react???).
The verses & chapters of Quran about the war between jews & muslims :The jews allied with the disbelievers in Quraish to destroy muslims in Medina,it was a hard time that islam was about to be destroyed,so,after the attack failed muslims turn to jews in Medina to settle donw things with them!
So,there is nothing like this nowadays,i think Torah talks also about the wars that Moses ,Yocho'o,David;Soloman wars....
the question is:How to settle this thing down??how to seek peace in a situation that get worse & worse??
Hamas wanting to protect their persecuted people?
The question is:When israel started this was it sure it can destroy hamas to protect its people????No,
Hamas is theocratic organization,that's true,but if they were given time & chance i am sure they could change,there are things that can be gained by just battles ,things that only can work & gained by politics,Hamas understood that lesson well & entered the elections,however,things turned out dramatically!
I allow myself to say that Israel also is taking a big part of its power & influence by theocratic ways(it uses Torah,the divine right & chosen people in its propaganda,even the word Holocaust means the sacred sacrifice:it sounds like theocratic words),about this side,no one is clear,even in US courts there is things such:"In God we trust",the national anthem says"God bless America",
The point is:Just stop,Israel won't gain nothing of this!!Also,i don't believe that Israel is helping palastinians,since when isral fights for others especially for palastinians?????????????
PS:Sorry for my English(i know i butcher english ),it's not my second language as u said(French is my second language),i try to improve my level & i'll be more careful,i hope i'm making myself clear despite this,may be i won't be able to post again(my exams are starting tomorrow:15 subjects,15 days of labour ),but i'll be back as soon as i can,untill then,i hope this whole war stops!
one last thing:i don't post on topics unless i think i can add something by giving my opinion or it would be better if i keep it to myself,i read the post carefully before giving comments,i would like too to have a quite debatcbuilt on reason with u ^^
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28 / F / Morocco
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Posted 1/11/09

h3ntie wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:


h3ntie wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:

I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.


Are you a people?


what? yes I am a person


O ok just wondering.


Ur posts are really funny ,even that the topic isn't at all funny!!!
FZTime 
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Posted 1/11/09

supermalv wrote:

"Although Israel has shipped supplies into certain Palestinian areas their invasion has largely isolated human beings and denied them access to basic needs. The wall they’ve constructed to fortify their borders against terrorist attacks already blockaded rivers and made transporting goods difficult.

Normally I could look at that with a fairly clinical perspective and say, ‘that’s war.’ Gaza initiated this war and now they’re paying for it. To me when a Hama talks about how they’re being slaughtered I have to laugh. Hamas has brought this on themselves and on Palestine."

See now this is where it gets stupid. Anybody without half the pro-israel shit in your brain would clearly see that....

Gaza initiated what "war"? both nations agreed to cease-fire until Israel deny Palestine basic food and humanitary aids. And in your post you said.. clinically *rolls eyes* :rolleyes:... that it's "just war". Wouldn't that mean that Israel initiated the "war" then?

Maybe you should clinically remove stupidity from your brain. Maybe then you'll be able to make a statement without contradicting yourself.


even if they tried to agree to a cease-fire, who started it originally. is it Isreal's fault that because they don't give aid to Palestine that they started fighting again? the war started before the cease-fire. not after. do try to read more clearly and understand the post better
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Posted 1/11/09

supermalv wrote:

btw.

in other words? you created a thread about Israel-Palestinian conflict and found your opinion to be immensely unpopular there and try to start a fresh new one.

nice.

and lol. it's funny how neo-cons like you. or whatever it is you call yourself these days. Will actually believe that Israel/America is PURELY innocent in terms of their foreign policy. They can never do wrong. And the fault always lies on those islamic people. Since supposedly they fire rockets and shoot innocent Israeli's civilian every single second, roast jewish new-born babies and eat their kidney, all because the qur'an told them to. You will actually believe that every single war and conflict between Israel and Palestine was caused by the Palestinian. And Israel is always the angelic, pure and innocent nation, always victimized by the brutal and barbaric muslim people.

I mean like.. don't it ever occur to you that no matter which government it is. Palestinian or Israelis. Radical muslims or zionist. Will always be full of shit when they tell THEIR side of the story to serve their own self-interest?? or maybe you believe that only Israel have this magical quality that renders them totally incapable of doing so??

I'm just speechless. Reading your post left me totally amazed with how retarded some people are.


i would like you to take note that a person can rethink on their opinions and as more information is received change some points and rewrite a new opinion.

if you read this post clearly...the starter stated that he didn't like the Hamas people who according to the post were 'oppressing' the Palestinians. He never said that Isreal is angelic pure and innocent. he said that Isreal tried to help the Palestinians a little but in the end still killed many people. He accompanied this with logic and reasoning, backed by statistics and data. Even though the evidence might have been biased i still feel that it makes reasonable and logical sense. The thread starter also tried to give evidence from both parties. Did he ever just read the Isreal point of view? Reminding you that in this post he supports Isreal FOR THE SAKE OF THE PALESTINIANS because as his evidence shows, Hamas is the enemy to both of them here. He wasn't biased and blame the Palestinians for this conflict between Isreal and Hamas

If you were trying to state something in the previous threads he wrote....please move over there. thanks.
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Posted 1/11/09 , edited 1/11/09
^Lol Hamas oppressing Palestinian people damn someone needs to get more educated because Hamas was elected by the Palestinian people. So why the hell would you elect an oppressor? Secondly it is Israel who they are under occupation with. Israel controls al their resources how the hell is Hamas suppressing that. If it was up to Hamas they open up all blockades to give basic human neccisities to their people. But they cant and the ignorant mind wants Palestine to live in shit forever quietly under a cease fire. I know Israel doesnt want any peace with Palestine this is a phoney now all they want is more land. Israel is using this advantage while bush is still in office because they know his dumb ass would agree to everything they do. They know Obama wil be a lil more critical so what you do is kill as much as you can before Obama gets elected. Truthfully I dont think Obama would make a slight diffference but this is what I learned from reading. I also learned this attack was performed on the eve of an upcoming election. Some sort of propoganda to show the people, "well see the terrorists are going to stil attack us vote for me and I will make sure Israel is even safer." So if there is a peacefull Israeli candidate he wont win. This thread is bias because it ignores how barbaric the creation of Israel and ignores the conditions, the land stealings, the murders, the house destroying i mean what does tha has to do with combating terrorism to me that is an act of terror. I am sorry but nobody here is stupid thats why the majority of us on both threads can see right hrough the phoney lie and millions of more people. Israel keeps up with this shit soon the whole world will notice it.

What is Israels Objective?



The real Goal Of Gaza Assault



I just heard someone on here say, "the only people supporting Palestine are the muslims." I mean this just shows the level on education on the Israel supporters side. All the articles I posted here and on the other thread were from non muslims and some even jewish. Where I get my info from are non muslim some even American chrsitian websites or jewish websites.




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