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Want to help Palestinian victims? Help Israel!
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Posted 1/11/09

marie_2902 wrote:

Ur posts are really funny ,even that the topic isn't at all funny!!!


Thank you
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Posted 1/11/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

I’ve been reading my Israel Assault on Hama thread, as well as some similar such topics on this forum. What I’ve seen is a lot of people saying that Israel has a right to kill these people and a lot more people saying that Israel doesn’t have the right to defend itself. I see people posting terrible pictures of Palestinian victims to cover up for their lack of basis in the argument.

I see a lot of emotion in the thread. People are angry that there are so many casualties. Israel originally showed an immense measure of care for civilian lives. They evacuated Gazans. They escorted denizens of Gaza with foreign passports back to their respective nations. They allowed the United Nations to provide humanitarian support and construct shelters for civilians. They dropped flyers to warn civilians of incoming air strikes. The released sound bombs to frighten away crowds. They made phone calls, sent e-mails and texts, telling people to leave before an attack was made.

Since then they’ve isolated two immensely populated cities. They’re no longer targeting security facilities but rather bombing homes in residential neighbor hoods. Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed. About two fifths of these are woman and children. Roughly one third of the fatalities were civilians. Thousands more have injured. An additional thirteen thousand have been forced out of their homes.

Although Israel has shipped supplies into certain Palestinian areas their invasion has largely isolated human beings and denied them access to basic needs. The wall they’ve constructed to fortify their borders against terrorist attacks already blockaded rivers and made transporting goods difficult.

Normally I could look at that with a fairly clinical perspective and say, ‘that’s war.’ Gaza initiated this war and now they’re paying for it. To me when a Hama talks about how they’re being slaughtered I have to laugh. Hamas has brought this on themselves and on Palestine.

Israel is the bigger kid who actually knows how to fight effectively on this play ground. Hamas is a smaller kid with a bad attitude. The smaller kid thinks that because he’s little it’s wrong for Israel to hit him. So, he punches Israel in the nose. Israel says stop. He does it again. Israel beats the hell out of him. He then tells the teacher-the UN-that Israel is bullying him.

What makes me sick about this is that Hamas did not get where it was democratically. Hamas originally ceased power of Gaza through a coup. The Palestinian people don’t want Hamas and they don’t want a war.

Their lives have become miserable because of Hamas-an organization that uses them as human shields. When I say human shields I mean this literally and metaphorically:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTu-AUE9ycs-Hama Admits it uses human shields.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPHB8SSqL4- Palestinian Terrorists using human shields

Israel has reacted in kind. They’re ALSO using Palestinian children as human shields. Although it is against Israeli law they’re sending Palestinian children ahead of them to protect themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A -Israeli soldiers using Palestine children as human shields

Hama has also made a mockery out of Islamic places of worship. They’ve used mosques to fire at Israeli soldiers and to store weaponry. (Ever sense I took a theology class that discussed Islamic belief, culture, and history I've been a major activist for Islamic rights. People are unfairly biased against a peaceful religion, and THIS is why.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwP_LusgPAw&NR=1-Weapons stashed in mosque

Those UN shelters established in Gaza? Those schools people are fleeing to for the hopes of ONE place where they can sleep without fear of being blown up? Hama has turned those into a war zone too. The UN denied that the school was being used to shell Israeli troops with mortar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teqfdix4jTA - Un Denies fire from UN school

And yet here it is on tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI&feature=related -Palestine fires from UN school

In addition the militants were seen using the shelter by both Israeli and Palestinians. The Palestinian people are not very fond of Israel, why would they lie for them? The United Nations does not want to admit that it has failed to properly regulate its facilities.

Can we trust the UN over the video tape and the eye-witnesses? UN intelligene once told America that Iraq had WMDs. We now know that this is not true.

People say that Hamas isn’t a terrorist group? Yet they order their militants-men with families, wives and children-to suicide launch suicide bombing missions on Israel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82DqXmvDXXg

Hamas obviously doesn’t care about Gaza or Palestine. They’ve started a war they cannot win. They have done this in pursuit of their own personal political agendas. They are not motivated with the hopes of making things right for Palestine but by hatred and bigotry. Their goal is not peace through war but peace through genocide. Anybody, in this case the Jews, who oppose them must be ‘purged’ from the land. They’re willing to sacrifice PalestinIs this what Palestinian life is worth? Politics and racism? Silly dreams of genocide? Unreasonable aspirations? Suicide bombers and human shields? Blatant terrorism?
ians if it means taking some Jews with them.


Palestinians know they cannot defeat Israel. They know Hamas started this war and are not happy about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIdxF-GHWw&feature=related

Palestine does not want Hamas in control. They do not want this war. They do not want to live in fear, to be cornered like rats, and bombed. They do not want Fatah and Hama fighting each other and Israel. They do not want Hama using their mosques, cities, homes, bodies, families, wives, children-as shields.

They want this war to be over. They want to live in peace. They want to go on with their lives. This cannot happen as long as Hamas exists. Hamas has announced that Jews and Americans are evil. That their goal is to destroy Jews. That they have no intention of attaining peace. They’ve announce that they will not honor negotiations and cease fires, that they will liberate with the riffle!

“Before we let Israel die, we must defeat and humiliate it!” -Khaled Masnal, Hamas political leader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxErvEzfoO0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7cUeHAwX_I

The Palestinians can not speak out, because they'll die if they do. Fatah and especially Hamas have made Palestine a hell on earth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1epa5LEmTc&feature=related -Fatah and Hama destroying Palestine without Israel's help.

So, that is why I support Israel and want the war to finish. I want a victor to be clear. I don't want Palestine defeated, I want Hamas defeated. I'm for a war on Hamas, not Palestine. I think that if Western powers insist on getting involved then they should do so by rooting out Hamas and forcing them away from civilian population centers. What are your thoughts?





"Normally I could look at that with a fairly clinical perspective and say, ‘that’s war.’ Gaza initiated this war and now they’re paying for it. To me when a Hama talks about how they’re being slaughtered I have to laugh. Hamas has brought this on themselves and on Palestine."
hamas fatah or any Palestinain wold never live under isreal no matter what .. isreal is the one who broke the fake peace arrangment.

"Israel is the bigger kid who actually knows how to fight effectively on this play ground. Hamas is a smaller kid with a bad attitude. The smaller kid thinks that because he’s little it’s wrong for Israel to hit him. So, he punches Israel in the nose. Israel says stop. He does it again. Israel beats the hell out of him. He then tells the teacher-the UN-that Israel is bullying him."

oh ya the one who invaded first will pay for it .. and guess what the smaller kid maybe bite his leg and win and that what is happening today and UN is not teacher as well.



"What makes me sick about this is that Hamas did not get where it was democratically. Hamas originally ceased power of Gaza through a coup. The Palestinian

Their lives have become miserable because of Hamas-an organization that uses them as human shields. When I say human shields I mean this literally and metaphorically: people don’t want Hamas and they don’t want a war.

what makes me sicker is that Palestinian dont want isreal . and hamas is what they want . those ppl lived unfair this way for 60 years bt guess what is not forver.
and what is democracy anyway is what iraq the way it is huh?




Hama has also made a mockery out of Islamic places of worship. They’ve used mosques to fire at Israeli soldiers and to store weaponry. (Ever sense I took a theology class that discussed Islamic belief, culture, and history I've been a major activist for Islamic rights. People are unfairly biased against a peaceful religion, and THIS is why.)
very funny so u r against islam !! u dont even know it . do u ? and ur theology class was given by who based what kind of books?




Hamas obviously doesn’t care about Gaza or Palestine. They’ve started a war they cannot win. They have done this in pursuit of their own personal political agendas. They are not motivated with the hopes of making things right for Palestine but by hatred and bigotry. Their goal is not peace through war but peace through genocide. Anybody, in this case the Jews, who oppose them must be ‘purged’ from the land. They’re willing to sacrifice PalestinIs this what Palestinian life is worth? Politics and racism? Silly dreams of genocide? Unreasonable aspirations? Suicide bombers and human shields? Blatant terrorism?
ians if it means taking some Jews with them.
Palestinians know they cannot defeat Israel. They know Hamas started this war and are not happy about it:
what kind of peace ur willing for . peace under the strip huh ? peace = liveing under isreal forever , is that what u call peace.
: "
my friend hamas has all the right to do whatever they are doing... its their own land they dont need isreal to control them ... i live in the middel east and i think all the civilains think so too.


"So, that is why I support Israel and want the war to finish. I want a victor to be clear. I don't want Palestine defeated, I want Hamas defeated. I'm for a war on Hamas, not Palestine. I think that if Western powers insist on getting involved then they should do so by rooting out Hamas and forcing them away from civilian population centers. What are your thoughts?"
so u mean bombing schools is defeating hamas.. bombing houses is defeating hamas ... all bombing is all random and the world should force out isreal and their damn strip and their bloody hands.
ISREAL IS GOING TO PAY ANYWAY ALLAH AKHBR



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Posted 1/11/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

I’ve been reading my Israel Assault on Hama thread, as well as some similar such topics on this forum. What I’ve seen is a lot of people saying that Israel has a right to kill these people and a lot more people saying that Israel doesn’t have the right to defend itself. I see people posting terrible pictures of Palestinian victims to cover up for their lack of basis in the argument.

I see a lot of emotion in the thread. People are angry that there are so many casualties. Israel originally showed an immense measure of care for civilian lives. They evacuated Gazans. They escorted denizens of Gaza with foreign passports back to their respective nations. They allowed the United Nations to provide humanitarian support and construct shelters for civilians. They dropped flyers to warn civilians of incoming air strikes. The released sound bombs to frighten away crowds. They made phone calls, sent e-mails and texts, telling people to leave before an attack was made.

Since then they’ve isolated two immensely populated cities. They’re no longer targeting security facilities but rather bombing homes in residential neighbor hoods. Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed. About two fifths of these are woman and children. Roughly one third of the fatalities were civilians. Thousands more have injured. An additional thirteen thousand have been forced out of their homes.

Although Israel has shipped supplies into certain Palestinian areas their invasion has largely isolated human beings and denied them access to basic needs. The wall they’ve constructed to fortify their borders against terrorist attacks already blockaded rivers and made transporting goods difficult.

Normally I could look at that with a fairly clinical perspective and say, ‘that’s war.’ Gaza initiated this war and now they’re paying for it. To me when a Hama talks about how they’re being slaughtered I have to laugh. Hamas has brought this on themselves and on Palestine.

Israel is the bigger kid who actually knows how to fight effectively on this play ground. Hamas is a smaller kid with a bad attitude. The smaller kid thinks that because he’s little it’s wrong for Israel to hit him. So, he punches Israel in the nose. Israel says stop. He does it again. Israel beats the hell out of him. He then tells the teacher-the UN-that Israel is bullying him.

What makes me sick about this is that Hamas did not get where it was democratically. Hamas originally ceased power of Gaza through a coup. The Palestinian people don’t want Hamas and they don’t want a war.

Their lives have become miserable because of Hamas-an organization that uses them as human shields. When I say human shields I mean this literally and metaphorically:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTu-AUE9ycs-Hama Admits it uses human shields.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NPHB8SSqL4- Palestinian Terrorists using human shields

Israel has reacted in kind. They’re ALSO using Palestinian children as human shields. Although it is against Israeli law they’re sending Palestinian children ahead of them to protect themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A -Israeli soldiers using Palestine children as human shields

Hama has also made a mockery out of Islamic places of worship. They’ve used mosques to fire at Israeli soldiers and to store weaponry. (Ever sense I took a theology class that discussed Islamic belief, culture, and history I've been a major activist for Islamic rights. People are unfairly biased against a peaceful religion, and THIS is why.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwP_LusgPAw&NR=1-Weapons stashed in mosque

Those UN shelters established in Gaza? Those schools people are fleeing to for the hopes of ONE place where they can sleep without fear of being blown up? Hama has turned those into a war zone too. The UN denied that the school was being used to shell Israeli troops with mortar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teqfdix4jTA - Un Denies fire from UN school

And yet here it is on tape:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI&feature=related -Palestine fires from UN school

In addition the militants were seen using the shelter by both Israeli and Palestinians. The Palestinian people are not very fond of Israel, why would they lie for them? The United Nations does not want to admit that it has failed to properly regulate its facilities.

Can we trust the UN over the video tape and the eye-witnesses? UN intelligene once told America that Iraq had WMDs. We now know that this is not true.

People say that Hamas isn’t a terrorist group? Yet they order their militants-men with families, wives and children-to suicide launch suicide bombing missions on Israel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82DqXmvDXXg

Hamas obviously doesn’t care about Gaza or Palestine. They’ve started a war they cannot win. They have done this in pursuit of their own personal political agendas. They are not motivated with the hopes of making things right for Palestine but by hatred and bigotry. Their goal is not peace through war but peace through genocide. Anybody, in this case the Jews, who oppose them must be ‘purged’ from the land. They’re willing to sacrifice Palestinians if it means taking some Jews with them.

Is this what Palestinian life is worth? Politics and racism? Silly dreams of genocide? Unreasonable aspirations? Suicide bombers and human shields? Blatant terrorism?

Palestinians know they cannot defeat Israel. They know Hamas started this war and are not happy about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLIdxF-GHWw&feature=related

Palestine does not want Hamas in control. They do not want this war. They do not want to live in fear, to be cornered like rats, and bombed. They do not want Fatah and Hama fighting each other and Israel. They do not want Hama using their mosques, cities, homes, bodies, families, wives, children-as shields.

They want this war to be over. They want to live in peace. They want to go on with their lives. This cannot happen as long as Hamas exists. Hamas has announced that Jews and Americans are evil. That their goal is to destroy Jews. That they have no intention of attaining peace. They’ve announce that they will not honor negotiations and cease fires, that they will liberate with the riffle!

“Before we let Israel die, we must defeat and humiliate it!” -Khaled Masnal, Hamas political leader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxErvEzfoO0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7cUeHAwX_I

The Palestinians can not speak out, because they'll die if they do. Fatah and especially Hamas have made Palestine a hell on earth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1epa5LEmTc&feature=related -Fatah and Hama destroying Palestine without Israel's help.

So, that is why I support Israel and want the war to finish. I want a victor to be clear. I don't want Palestine defeated, I want Hamas defeated. I'm for a war on Hamas, not Palestine. I think that if Western powers insist on getting involved then they should do so by rooting out Hamas and forcing them away from civilian population centers. What are your thoughts?





if hamas was as strong as Israel and israel was as weak as hamas, then hamas would wipe out the jews , this shows Israel's humility . out of the 859 dead so far many of those were hamas fighters people who try to kill innocents without remorse in the name of god with missiles and use there own people as shields.

if people think israel is bad get them to fire some of those Katusha rockets into china or Russia lets see what there response is. i guarantee you something the death toll wouldn't be in hundreds it would be in tens of thousands.
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Posted 1/11/09 , edited 1/11/09

FZTime wrote:


supermalv wrote:

"Although Israel has shipped supplies into certain Palestinian areas their invasion has largely isolated human beings and denied them access to basic needs. The wall they’ve constructed to fortify their borders against terrorist attacks already blockaded rivers and made transporting goods difficult.

Normally I could look at that with a fairly clinical perspective and say, ‘that’s war.’ Gaza initiated this war and now they’re paying for it. To me when a Hama talks about how they’re being slaughtered I have to laugh. Hamas has brought this on themselves and on Palestine."

See now this is where it gets stupid. Anybody without half the pro-israel shit in your brain would clearly see that....

Gaza initiated what "war"? both nations agreed to cease-fire until Israel deny Palestine basic food and humanitary aids. And in your post you said.. clinically *rolls eyes* :rolleyes:... that it's "just war". Wouldn't that mean that Israel initiated the "war" then?

Maybe you should clinically remove stupidity from your brain. Maybe then you'll be able to make a statement without contradicting yourself.


even if they tried to agree to a cease-fire, who started it originally. is it Isreal's fault that because they don't give aid to Palestine that they started fighting again? the war started before the cease-fire. not after. do try to read more clearly and understand the post better


Thank you for the condescending comment. But I actually did read all his post very carefully. Both in here and the other thread.

I know the war started before the cease-fire. I posted that in reply of

"The wall they’ve constructed to fortify their borders against terrorist attacks already blockaded rivers and made transporting goods difficult.

Normally I could look at that with a fairly clinical perspective and say, ‘that’s war.’ Gaza initiated this war and now they’re paying for it."


this war as in the very recent one this month in gaza strip.

I do appreciate that you weren't being hostile. But maybe you should be the one not jumping to conclusion next time?
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Posted 1/11/09

AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:

I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.


FIRST of all you actually believe what you hear on CNN, alright thats just a bunch of liberal shit which is controlled by Jews in fact 96% of media is owned by Jews such as the owners of CNN which is the Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. In other words its obviously a sack of biased bull shit. Hamas does NOT hide behind its civilians, there defending there civilians. Why else would they risk there lives to go off and fight for there innocent people. I'm not defending Hamas but no civilian deserves to die from either sides.

Trust me even if a civilian had his hands up, the Israeli soldier would still shoot and claim to have done it because of self defense. You're unable to say that because you've never lived there and seen with your own two eyes whats going on there. All we have is the media... and we know how they always spout out lies and BS.


The media is our window to places elsewhere. Sure CNN might sprout lies kike the preious China issues but somehow, I don't see much attention being paid too. Which shows that many of the people are ignorant to the truth and depend on their own opinions. Everything is biased.

And how would you know that the news being shown is fake or not?Not all Israeli people are the same. They themselves have their pride just like any other men.
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Posted 1/11/09
omg.
i'd like to give my opinion but i got tired of reading essays after the first few paragraphs.
anyways, we got enough problems on our plates. every country is fooked up, so let them solve their own problems.
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Posted 1/11/09

FZTime wrote:

i would like you to take note that a person can rethink on their opinions and as more information is received change some points and rewrite a new opinion.

if you read this post clearly...the starter stated that he didn't like the Hamas people who according to the post were 'oppressing' the Palestinians. He never said that Isreal is angelic pure and innocent. he said that Isreal tried to help the Palestinians a little but in the end still killed many people. He accompanied this with logic and reasoning, backed by statistics and data. Even though the evidence might have been biased i still feel that it makes reasonable and logical sense. The thread starter also tried to give evidence from both parties. Did he ever just read the Isreal point of view? Reminding you that in this post he supports Isreal FOR THE SAKE OF THE PALESTINIANS because as his evidence shows, Hamas is the enemy to both of them here. He wasn't biased and blame the Palestinians for this conflict between Isreal and Hamas

If you were trying to state something in the previous threads he wrote....please move over there. thanks.


Ya he was. He's saying that Hamas is the only one to blame for the recent conflict for attacking Israel. I read through that post and he didn't mention anyting about Hamas firing rocket because they were denied food and water. He never mention that Israel was violating Palestine's territory by constructing buildings in West Banks. He never mention that Israel not only deny food aid, but also basic humanitary aid to Palestine, even at the UN's request.

And the claim that he "support" israel for the sake of palestinian... what the f... Hamas didn't cut off Palestine's supply to food and water. Israel did. Where was the evidence and statistic for that fact right there?

So yes. If someone is being selective about the truth. Even if everything he said were true (and I'm pretty sure some, if not most of seraph alford's facts and figures aren't), It's still considered a bias, and i was calling him out on it.

ps. please stop acting like a mod and tell people where to post. people have enough sensibility to not post stuff irrelevant to the topics. thx
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digs 
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Posted 1/11/09
I largely agree with you Seraph. I think for the best of the Palestinian people and the Israelis, Hamas should be defeated. They are not seeking peace but rather a militant take-over. Before this whole assault started, Hamas was firing rockets into Israel and especially civilian areas (one rocket hit a kindergarten, luckily school was not going on). Israel asked Hamas to stop repeatedly, but they refused each time (thus things escalated to what we have now). To me this shows that they are more militant minded than peaceful and diplomatic. For the best of both worlds, I think Hamas should be removed.
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Posted 1/11/09 , edited 1/11/09

AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


search aljazeera they've got a whole bunch of info, it was on the radio it's going to take a while to find, but when i do ill have it up, you cant say something is a load of crap, that's just showing your not willing to accept facts outside of your 'domain'.


Al Jazeera is -not- a good source of information on anything involving Israel. As it stands one of those people being escorted out was my aunt. She's a humanitarian worker. Israel has isolated issues of discipline like all armies, but the escort was for real.
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Posted 1/11/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


search aljazeera they've got a whole bunch of info, it was on the radio it's going to take a while to find, but when i do ill have it up, you cant say something is a load of crap, that's just showing your not willing to accept facts outside of your 'domain'.


Al Jazeera is -not- a good source of information on anything involving Israel. As it stands one of those people being escorted out was my aunt. She's a humanitarian worker. Israel has isolated issues of discipline like all armies, but the escort was for real.


Pray for the well-being and safety of your aunt and other like-minded humanitarian aid workers
I hope that your aunt is well, its good that she, a humanitarian worker have been evacuated out, but there are still other humanitarians that have decided to stay on (doctors, nurses, etc) and even now there are other aid workers who are even planning to enter Gaza to provide aid despite no sign of a cease fire between both Hamas and Israel.

Al-Jazeera, Arab/middle-east perspective
Al-Jazeera caters to the middle-east generally but they do have some good articles/analysis on Israel once in a while. The one thing that Al-Jazeera have advantage over other foreign media is that they are already positioned in Gaza and able to show clearly the happening there, foreign media have been restricted from the Israeli side.

Al-Jazeera - http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/



From the Israeli media perspective, perhaps haaretz.
Haaretz - http://www.haaretz.com/. They have some good articles but the layout of the site is messy as compared to Jerusalem Post but they have a lot better and critical articles you can read there instead.


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Posted 1/11/09

digs wrote:

I largely agree with you Seraph. I think for the best of the Palestinian people and the Israelis, Hamas should be defeated. They are not seeking peace but rather a militant take-over. Before this whole assault started, Hamas was firing rockets into Israel and especially civilian areas (one rocket hit a kindergarten, luckily school was not going on). Israel asked Hamas to stop repeatedly, but they refused each time (thus things escalated to what we have now). To me this shows that they are more militant minded than peaceful and diplomatic. For the best of both worlds, I think Hamas should be removed.


If Hamas should be removed, then Israel must be strictly punished for violating International law...fair and square....
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Posted 1/12/09

makimaki_sataandagi wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:

I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.


FIRST of all you actually believe what you hear on CNN, alright thats just a bunch of liberal shit which is controlled by Jews in fact 96% of media is owned by Jews such as the owners of CNN which is the Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. In other words its obviously a sack of biased bull shit. Hamas does NOT hide behind its civilians, there defending there civilians. Why else would they risk there lives to go off and fight for there innocent people. I'm not defending Hamas but no civilian deserves to die from either sides.

Trust me even if a civilian had his hands up, the Israeli soldier would still shoot and claim to have done it because of self defense. You're unable to say that because you've never lived there and seen with your own two eyes whats going on there. All we have is the media... and we know how they always spout out lies and BS.


The media is our window to places elsewhere. Sure CNN might sprout lies kike the preious China issues but somehow, I don't see much attention being paid too. Which shows that many of the people are ignorant to the truth and depend on their own opinions. Everything is biased.

And how would you know that the news being shown is fake or not?Not all Israeli people are the same. They themselves have their pride just like any other men.


Yes it is, but it's not ignorant to depend on your own opinion, it's ignorant to completly rely on the media. Your opinion matters, because after gathering information from everywhere, you form an opinion which isn't biased but based on everything you have learned.

That being said, it's not always right to use your opinion, but embrace it when needed. To rely on the media is like blindly following a strangers advice.

Lets take a baby for example. A baby will touch everything, but wont know what is dangerous until they have sensed it, or came in contact with the dangerous object. Like a stove for example, a baby will be taught that a stove hurts, but until they have either seen someone get burned, or have felt it themselves they will not truly know if what we tell them is real or not.

Same goes for us, we know that the whole area is war-torn and that so many civilians from both sides are dying, but what we don't know is how everything is executed and no matter how many sources we get and claims from people that said they were in the midst of the whole thing, we can never form an opinion that is not biased.
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Posted 1/12/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


search aljazeera they've got a whole bunch of info, it was on the radio it's going to take a while to find, but when i do ill have it up, you cant say something is a load of crap, that's just showing your not willing to accept facts outside of your 'domain'.


Al Jazeera is -not- a good source of information on anything involving Israel. As it stands one of those people being escorted out was my aunt. She's a humanitarian worker. Israel has isolated issues of discipline like all armies, but the escort was for real.


No it's not a good source, but seriously what is? The problem is you could be saying that about your aunt and I don't have to believe it, which I'm not saying because the chances can be probable. Also there is a chance that the woman on the radio could have been a bullshitter and a good actress as she sounded really convincing.

Some studentsd in my class have family in gaza, one girl said that she's not sure what happened to all of them, half of them said they escaped and didn't see any soldier try to help. Then there was another guy in my class who said that his family refused to accept any help because they had heard the Israelis were trying to figure out who was apart of Hamas and if a family didn't speak they shot them down.

Whats wrong with this picture is not that I am saying one side is worse than the other, because in a war there is no good and bad.... and there is no winner. In a war, everyone fights for their belief. And in the end it all comes down to who losses the most.

What I'm saying is that, people can bring hundreds of sources, yet we will never know what is really going on, our resources and information is limited and all that we have is somehow biased in someway or the other, so I completly agree with you on that point.

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There is just a small point I wanted to point out. A lot of people say that it is Palestinian land, which is partially true. When they came, the land was pretty much empty, there was no one living there, but previously lived the Jews of past time. It's speculated that these Jews were taken to Europe through Rome and stayed there until the holocaust of Nazi Germany. After returning, doesn't that technically mean that this land belongs to the Jews? I just heard this from a guy in my class who's American.

Anyways, he said that for that reason the Jews deserve all their land back. I replied by saying that if they deserved their land back, then don't the natives in America deserve their land back as well?

Anyways my point being, is that this is no longer a battle for land, but politics, religion and just hate is all mixed up in there. We can never truly be sure 'who started it' but there are a lot of finger being pointed to Hamas, Palestinians, Israelis and even religion groups and whats said is that they do this blindly.
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People should stop fighting.

Its not pretty.
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Posted 1/12/09

AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:

I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.


FIRST of all you actually believe what you hear on CNN, alright thats just a bunch of liberal shit which is controlled by Jews in fact 96% of media is owned by Jews such as the owners of CNN which is the Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. In other words its obviously a sack of biased bull shit. Hamas does NOT hide behind its civilians, there defending there civilians. Why else would they risk there lives to go off and fight for there innocent people. I'm not defending Hamas but no civilian deserves to die from either sides.

Trust me even if a civilian had his hands up, the Israeli soldier would still shoot and claim to have done it because of self defense. You're unable to say that because you've never lived there and seen with your own two eyes whats going on there. All we have is the media... and we know how they always spout out lies and BS.


The media is our window to places elsewhere. Sure CNN might sprout lies like the previous China issues but somehow, I don't see much attention being paid too. Which shows that many of the people are ignorant to the truth and depend on their own opinions. Everything is biased.

And how would you know that the news being shown is fake or not?Not all Israeli people are the same. They themselves have their pride just like any other men.


Yes it is, but it's not ignorant to depend on your own opinion, it's ignorant to completly rely on the media. Your opinion matters, because after gathering information from everywhere, you form an opinion which isn't biased but based on everything you have learned.

That being said, it's not always right to use your opinion, but embrace it when needed. To rely on the media is like blindly following a strangers advice.

Lets take a baby for example. A baby will touch everything, but wont know what is dangerous until they have sensed it, or came in contact with the dangerous object. Like a stove for example, a baby will be taught that a stove hurts, but until they have either seen someone get burned, or have felt it themselves they will not truly know if what we tell them is real or not.

Same goes for us, we know that the whole area is war-torn and that so many civilians from both sides are dying, but what we don't know is how everything is executed and no matter how many sources we get and claims from people that said they were in the midst of the whole thing, we can never form an opinion that is not biased.


And just how sure are you about Hamas protecting the civilians instead of vice versa. How sure are you that the source is reliable? I guess people are able to judge upon a thing based on their own principles, what they consider is justice. So you can't really say which is the truth and which isn't, for no matter how terrifying it may be, we as humans will still be ignorant to it if it is against our opinions. Its ignorant when the truth is obvious and yet people put a blind eye to it because it waries from their own views but then the truth is not necessarily suitable to others. I do agree that a majority of opinions are biased. So just by looking at people's comments, we can see the pro-Israel, and the pro-Hamas.

So basically, you can't say that the news being broadcasted is bullshit, cause the source you received might be written by someone who is on Hamas' side. I stand on my views and that is that I find Hamas cowardice for shielding themselves with civilains, not to mention that Hamas had attacked first, been given warnings and yet they still refuse.
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