First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
Want to help Palestinian victims? Help Israel!
1186 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / F / Leading your nigh...
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

makimaki_sataandagi wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


makimaki_sataandagi wrote:

I saw the programme on CNN where the soldiers actually avoid firing at Hamas until an order is given out or that the person becomes a threat ; while Hamas hides behind civilians.

Conclusion, people are ignorant and that will be their fall.


FIRST of all you actually believe what you hear on CNN, alright thats just a bunch of liberal shit which is controlled by Jews in fact 96% of media is owned by Jews such as the owners of CNN which is the Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. In other words its obviously a sack of biased bull shit. Hamas does NOT hide behind its civilians, there defending there civilians. Why else would they risk there lives to go off and fight for there innocent people. I'm not defending Hamas but no civilian deserves to die from either sides.

Trust me even if a civilian had his hands up, the Israeli soldier would still shoot and claim to have done it because of self defense. You're unable to say that because you've never lived there and seen with your own two eyes whats going on there. All we have is the media... and we know how they always spout out lies and BS.


The media is our window to places elsewhere. Sure CNN might sprout lies like the previous China issues but somehow, I don't see much attention being paid too. Which shows that many of the people are ignorant to the truth and depend on their own opinions. Everything is biased.

And how would you know that the news being shown is fake or not?Not all Israeli people are the same. They themselves have their pride just like any other men.


Yes it is, but it's not ignorant to depend on your own opinion, it's ignorant to completly rely on the media. Your opinion matters, because after gathering information from everywhere, you form an opinion which isn't biased but based on everything you have learned.

That being said, it's not always right to use your opinion, but embrace it when needed. To rely on the media is like blindly following a strangers advice.

Lets take a baby for example. A baby will touch everything, but wont know what is dangerous until they have sensed it, or came in contact with the dangerous object. Like a stove for example, a baby will be taught that a stove hurts, but until they have either seen someone get burned, or have felt it themselves they will not truly know if what we tell them is real or not.

Same goes for us, we know that the whole area is war-torn and that so many civilians from both sides are dying, but what we don't know is how everything is executed and no matter how many sources we get and claims from people that said they were in the midst of the whole thing, we can never form an opinion that is not biased.


And just how sure are you about Hamas protecting the civilians instead of vice versa. How sure are you that the source is reliable? I guess people are able to judge upon a thing based on their own principles, what they consider is justice. So you can't really say which is the truth and which isn't, for no matter how terrifying it may be, we as humans will still be ignorant to it if it is against our opinions. Its ignorant when the truth is obvious and yet people put a blind eye to it because it waries from their own views but then the truth is not necessarily suitable to others. I do agree that a majority of opinions are biased. So just by looking at people's comments, we can see the pro-Israel, and the pro-Hamas.

So basically, you can't say that the news being broadcasted is bullshit, cause the source you received might be written by someone who is on Hamas' side. I stand on my views and that is that I find Hamas cowardice for shielding themselves with civilains, not to mention that Hamas had attacked first, been given warnings and yet they still refuse.


Which is why I'm neither on the Israeli side nor Hamas' side, I'm the one who thinks about the civilians first. You can stand by your opinion that is fine, but I can sit here and say everything you just said only differently. Where could the Palestinians have gone? To the Israeli side? If that was the case then there wouldn't be war because Palestinians would accept the aid. SO where are they going to go? Cross the border to another country? It take smore than a few days to do that. In other words no matter what they say about trying to get them out, Palestinians wont accept the help because they fear that the Israelis wont help them, that they may imprison them, interrogate them and kill them with their families.

Put yourself in that position. The Israelis come to your home and say that they will escort you because they plan on bombing your area, as a Palestinian, you have seen what the Israelis have done and are afraid of what they might do. As a Palestinian you obviously would rather die than have a high chance of being tortured then killed.

See what your saying is that Israelis are warning and escorting them, but where the hell will they go? It takes way more than a few days to be allowed to cross the border, and I doubt any country will be willing to let them in in a few seconds because of a threat from the Israelis. Most countries don't want to meddle and are afraid of accidentally letting in an Israeli.

Hamas has no access to the news... mostly because they are normal civilians who have taken arms and are fighting their own battles without the military. It's impossible for Hamas to write any of this because 1) all of the news is form the gulf 2) the only people allowed to own land, a major company such as that of the news, or any business that directly effects the country is a person carrying the passport liek Aljazeera, only a Qatari can own it. In other words it pretty much impossible for a Hamas person to make a news report because of the law in Qatar and most of the Gulf.

Yeah they attacked first, but you speak as though these men are just dumb little three year old kids who hit each other because of differences. Obviously there is a reason behind, and it's most likely because they feel so persecuted in the land given to them. They barely have rights and are treated like dogs and kicked out of their homes. If you want to start about who started first... then my friend I suggest going back into history since the Assyrian Empire.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 1/12/09 , edited 1/12/09
Now why is it that foriegn countries media can pose tough questions to Israel but USA media doesnt? Want to see a prime example watch how this Israeli spokesman is drilled about how they blocked the red cross for 3 days for trying to give aid to the Palestinian people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa-Vqtm7bTU

Why I cant watch US mainstream with their soo called, "fair and balanced slogan."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMkfYuF1cgQ

Only way to hear tough questions asked to Israel otherwise stay tuned to fox, cnn, msnbc, abc

Al Jeezra good source for info because they cover both sides unlike what we hear over here which covers one side.
FZTime 
26337 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / We've been here s...
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

supermalv wrote:


FZTime wrote:

i would like you to take note that a person can rethink on their opinions and as more information is received change some points and rewrite a new opinion.

if you read this post clearly...the starter stated that he didn't like the Hamas people who according to the post were 'oppressing' the Palestinians. He never said that Isreal is angelic pure and innocent. he said that Isreal tried to help the Palestinians a little but in the end still killed many people. He accompanied this with logic and reasoning, backed by statistics and data. Even though the evidence might have been biased i still feel that it makes reasonable and logical sense. The thread starter also tried to give evidence from both parties. Did he ever just read the Isreal point of view? Reminding you that in this post he supports Isreal FOR THE SAKE OF THE PALESTINIANS because as his evidence shows, Hamas is the enemy to both of them here. He wasn't biased and blame the Palestinians for this conflict between Isreal and Hamas

If you were trying to state something in the previous threads he wrote....please move over there. thanks.


Ya he was. He's saying that Hamas is the only one to blame for the recent conflict for attacking Israel. I read through that post and he didn't mention anyting about Hamas firing rocket because they were denied food and water. He never mention that Israel was violating Palestine's territory by constructing buildings in West Banks. He never mention that Israel not only deny food aid, but also basic humanitary aid to Palestine, even at the UN's request.

And the claim that he "support" israel for the sake of palestinian... what the f... Hamas didn't cut off Palestine's supply to food and water. Israel did. Where was the evidence and statistic for that fact right there?

So yes. If someone is being selective about the truth. Even if everything he said were true (and I'm pretty sure some, if not most of seraph alford's facts and figures aren't), It's still considered a bias, and i was calling him out on it.

ps. please stop acting like a mod and tell people where to post. people have enough sensibility to not post stuff irrelevant to the topics. thx


Well i'll read up more on this and get back to you as i'm just basing my opinions on the information given by the thread starter and you.

would you kindly give a little information on as this is getting a little confusing for me here.

but basically, I feel that if Isreal provoked the Hamas attack by constructing buildings in the Palestine's territory then the instigator would be Isreal.
If it was Hamas who just attacked Isreal, they would be the one at fault.

as for the thread starter's support of Isreal for the sake of the palestinians, I think he said something (i'm not too sure) about the isolation and denial of food supplies was to try to eliminate the Hamas in the two cities and the Palestinians were caught in the crossfire as (if i'm correct) it was a Palestinian city.

i'm just trying to reason out both you and the thread starters opinion. I hate this war and according to some, attacks on Isreal and by Isreal will never end so i couldn't really be bothered about it. oh and yeah most people actually don't have enough sensibility to post sensible stuff relevant to the topics.



FZTime 
26337 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / We've been here s...
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

supermalv wrote:


FZTime wrote:


supermalv wrote:

"Although Israel has shipped supplies into certain Palestinian areas their invasion has largely isolated human beings and denied them access to basic needs. The wall they’ve constructed to fortify their borders against terrorist attacks already blockaded rivers and made transporting goods difficult.

Normally I could look at that with a fairly clinical perspective and say, ‘that’s war.’ Gaza initiated this war and now they’re paying for it. To me when a Hama talks about how they’re being slaughtered I have to laugh. Hamas has brought this on themselves and on Palestine."

See now this is where it gets stupid. Anybody without half the pro-israel shit in your brain would clearly see that....

Gaza initiated what "war"? both nations agreed to cease-fire until Israel deny Palestine basic food and humanitary aids. And in your post you said.. clinically *rolls eyes* :rolleyes:... that it's "just war". Wouldn't that mean that Israel initiated the "war" then?

Maybe you should clinically remove stupidity from your brain. Maybe then you'll be able to make a statement without contradicting yourself.


even if they tried to agree to a cease-fire, who started it originally. is it Isreal's fault that because they don't give aid to Palestine that they started fighting again? the war started before the cease-fire. not after. do try to read more clearly and understand the post better


Thank you for the condescending comment. But I actually did read all his post very carefully. Both in here and the other thread.

I know the war started before the cease-fire. I posted that in reply of

"The wall they’ve constructed to fortify their borders against terrorist attacks already blockaded rivers and made transporting goods difficult.

Normally I could look at that with a fairly clinical perspective and say, ‘that’s war.’ Gaza initiated this war and now they’re paying for it."


this war as in the very recent one this month in gaza strip.

I do appreciate that you weren't being hostile. But maybe you should be the one not jumping to conclusion next time?


about this i'm not very clear and would leave it as it is till i've found out more.
i wasn't trying to jump to conclusions but this thing about who started the war is rather unclear and in my reply above i said something about that...

thank you for starting to post more politely as your reply to the thread starter was a little...harsh? lol.
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


search aljazeera they've got a whole bunch of info, it was on the radio it's going to take a while to find, but when i do ill have it up, you cant say something is a load of crap, that's just showing your not willing to accept facts outside of your 'domain'.


Al Jazeera is -not- a good source of information on anything involving Israel. As it stands one of those people being escorted out was my aunt. She's a humanitarian worker. Israel has isolated issues of discipline like all armies, but the escort was for real.


No it's not a good source, but seriously what is? The problem is you could be saying that about your aunt and I don't have to believe it, which I'm not saying because the chances can be probable. Also there is a chance that the woman on the radio could have been a bullshitter and a good actress as she sounded really convincing.

Some studentsd in my class have family in gaza, one girl said that she's not sure what happened to all of them, half of them said they escaped and didn't see any soldier try to help. Then there was another guy in my class who said that his family refused to accept any help because they had heard the Israelis were trying to figure out who was apart of Hamas and if a family didn't speak they shot them down.

Whats wrong with this picture is not that I am saying one side is worse than the other, because in a war there is no good and bad.... and there is no winner. In a war, everyone fights for their belief. And in the end it all comes down to who losses the most.

What I'm saying is that, people can bring hundreds of sources, yet we will never know what is really going on, our resources and information is limited and all that we have is somehow biased in someway or the other, so I completly agree with you on that point.

----------------------------

There is just a small point I wanted to point out. A lot of people say that it is Palestinian land, which is partially true. When they came, the land was pretty much empty, there was no one living there, but previously lived the Jews of past time. It's speculated that these Jews were taken to Europe through Rome and stayed there until the holocaust of Nazi Germany. After returning, doesn't that technically mean that this land belongs to the Jews? I just heard this from a guy in my class who's American.

Anyways, he said that for that reason the Jews deserve all their land back. I replied by saying that if they deserved their land back, then don't the natives in America deserve their land back as well?

Anyways my point being, is that this is no longer a battle for land, but politics, religion and just hate is all mixed up in there. We can never truly be sure 'who started it' but there are a lot of finger being pointed to Hamas, Palestinians, Israelis and even religion groups and whats said is that they do this blindly.



I suppose you do have a point. It’s fairly difficult to make a proper assessment of what’s going on. However, Hamas does make public statements and so does Israel. We can discern their intentions based on their actions and their statements as well as the documents defining their factions. Hamas cannot exist in peace with Israel. The faction exists for the sake of destroying Israel-which just isn’t going to happen. Let’s be realistic. Even a united Palestine couldn’t dream of defeating Israel.

You discussed Israel having a right to the land. That’s a tricky topic for many reasons. Yes, the Jews were there first but that doesn’t mean it was their land. It’d be like if you invited me over to your house for a cup of tea. Then you invite another friend over. This friend and I get into an argument and he kicks me out.

Yes, I was there first-but it wasn’t my house. The Jews didn’t originally have a real claim to the land. Originally the Hebrew people were nomads who. They found the territory in question to be hospitable and settled down. They built homes and cities but never had a central government to rule the land.

Eventually the Jews were conquered first by one faction and then the next. They remained in Israel and called it home but over time it was passed from one ruler to the next. There were a few brief points when the Jews managed to get into office and run their nation, but they were brief.

They were conquered again and again. By the time the Romans showed up the land did not belong to Israel. It had been taken from them. The region was not a nation but rather a series of Carthaginian provinces. In 70 CE Titus marched on Jerusalem. Titus was a Roman general famous for his hatred of the Jews. He let the gentiles in the region go but not the Jews.

Many of them he killed, the rest he sold into slavery and dragged back to Italy. Rome then renamed the region Palestine. Arab nomads then settled down into Palestine. It was ‘a land without people for a people without land.’ The Palestinians were just squatters, it was still Rome’s land. They just lived there.

When Rome fell apart many of the Jews went back home to Jerusalem. This didn’t sit well with the Palestinian Arabs. So much time had passed that they didn’t remember how they’d gotten the land. To them it was home and the Jews were invading their homes. The Jews-who’d just spent generations in servile labor-were hard workers who would labor for next to nothing.

They stole jobs and opportunities from the Palestinian Arabs. So, the Jews were then persecuted. This persecution climaxed with the foundation of Islam years later. Although Muhammad was actually fairly kind to the Jews-so long as they didn’t try to convert Muslims to Judaism-his successors lacked his wisdom and kindness.

Islam is a peaceful religion, I think. But it does have a bloody past. Eventually the Jews were forced out of the middle east by Muslims AND Christians. (The Crusades playing a major role in Christian contribution.) Anyway, the Jews are forced to flee.

So, Palestine won. They forced the Jews out and claimed the territory. It’s their home now, right? Well, sort of. They still don’t have a governmental claim to the territory and there’s still the fact that the Jews were there first.

Anyway, prior to WWII Jews flood into Germany. They illegally immigrate and start taking jobs from Germans. Again, we’ve got a hardy people. Here’s where the stereotype that Jews are great with money was originally formed. You see, the Jews would work for years and save up their money. They wouldn’t indulge in anything. They would nearly starve. Then, when they had a small fortune saved up, they’d buy property.

Also, Christians of that time weren’t permitted to work as bankers. (In traditional Christianity you’re allowed to lend money but you can’t charge interest. That’s not true of Judaism.) So, the Jews work as bankers. Bankers make a lot of money. They then buy more property and hire more Jews because they know the Jews work harder for less.

Well, this caused hatred of the Jews and then Hitler shows up. Thousands of holocaust survivors fled back to, guess where…Palestine! They cried, ‘A land without people for a people without land.”

The Arab Palestinians had no real claim to the land. They were just squatting, remember? Well, now the Jews wanted to squat with them. The territory is currently a part of the British Mandate. It doesn’t belong to the Jews or the Palestinians but to Briton. The two people squat with relative peace for a moment…UNTIL!

Hitler shows up and threatens to invade Palestine. The Jews and Palestinians start to make deals with Hitler to get him to agree to leave their homes alone. Essentially, Hitler says “Do this or I’m going to slaughter you.” So, Jews start blowing up British buildings. Palestinians start blowing up Jews. Terrorism runs rampart and the hatred between Jews and Palestinian Arabs reached a new height. Neither side realized that Hitler’s the mastermind. Palestinian boy looks at his dead dad and sees the Jewish woman who blew his head off. Jews are bad. Jewish girl sees her dead mom and the Palestinian man who blew her into pink mist. Palestinians are bad.

After WWII Briton has a chance to straighten things out. Instead of doing the responsible thing they just abandon the Middle East to chaos. (Things like this is what makes me less than fond of the United Kingdom.)

The United Nations comes in and negotiates border agreements that favor the Jews. The Palestinians don’t realize they’re being screwed and agree. The Jews realized they’re getting a great deal and also agree. Well, later on the Palestinians realized what happened and aren’t happy.

One moment they control all of Palestine and the next half of it is being called Israel. The good half! So, they get angry and attack Israel. Israel retaliates and actually winds up getting more land. The Palestinians say Israel violated the border agreement by capturing cities such as Acre during this war. Israel says that the Palestinians violated the agreement by attacking them and that it was already null by the time they ceased the extra land.

So, a metaphor:

I own a watch. Somebody steals it. They sell this watch to you. I take the watch back. In my eyes you’re the thief. In your eyes I’m the thief.

This conflict is the world’s biggest misunderstanding!

10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

drizza wrote:

Al Jeezra good source for info because they cover both sides unlike what we hear over here which covers one side.



Did you just say that Al Jazeera was a good source? Oh my goodness...That’s a load of complete crap and if you don’t realize it then…you’re just not really worth conversing with anymore. Al Jazeera is not a reliable news source. It makes Fox News and CNN look fair and balanced!

Anyway, I don’t see why everyone is convinced that CNN is all for the Jews. Here are a few things I’ve personally seen on CNN in the past few days:

-Israel violates cease fire (bull shit,)

- Israel targeting civilians (bull shit,)

- Israel bombs UN shelter claiming that militants used it to fire on them. There were no militants. (That was actually being aired on Fox and other news stations, and everyone thought it was true. The UN said that Israel was lying. Later on it turned out that Israel wasn’t lying. So, this wasn’t really CNN’s fault because everyone made the same mistake…but it’s still bull.)


1186 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / F / Leading your nigh...
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


search aljazeera they've got a whole bunch of info, it was on the radio it's going to take a while to find, but when i do ill have it up, you cant say something is a load of crap, that's just showing your not willing to accept facts outside of your 'domain'.


Al Jazeera is -not- a good source of information on anything involving Israel. As it stands one of those people being escorted out was my aunt. She's a humanitarian worker. Israel has isolated issues of discipline like all armies, but the escort was for real.


No it's not a good source, but seriously what is? The problem is you could be saying that about your aunt and I don't have to believe it, which I'm not saying because the chances can be probable. Also there is a chance that the woman on the radio could have been a bullshitter and a good actress as she sounded really convincing.

Some studentsd in my class have family in gaza, one girl said that she's not sure what happened to all of them, half of them said they escaped and didn't see any soldier try to help. Then there was another guy in my class who said that his family refused to accept any help because they had heard the Israelis were trying to figure out who was apart of Hamas and if a family didn't speak they shot them down.

Whats wrong with this picture is not that I am saying one side is worse than the other, because in a war there is no good and bad.... and there is no winner. In a war, everyone fights for their belief. And in the end it all comes down to who losses the most.

What I'm saying is that, people can bring hundreds of sources, yet we will never know what is really going on, our resources and information is limited and all that we have is somehow biased in someway or the other, so I completly agree with you on that point.

----------------------------

There is just a small point I wanted to point out. A lot of people say that it is Palestinian land, which is partially true. When they came, the land was pretty much empty, there was no one living there, but previously lived the Jews of past time. It's speculated that these Jews were taken to Europe through Rome and stayed there until the holocaust of Nazi Germany. After returning, doesn't that technically mean that this land belongs to the Jews? I just heard this from a guy in my class who's American.

Anyways, he said that for that reason the Jews deserve all their land back. I replied by saying that if they deserved their land back, then don't the natives in America deserve their land back as well?

Anyways my point being, is that this is no longer a battle for land, but politics, religion and just hate is all mixed up in there. We can never truly be sure 'who started it' but there are a lot of finger being pointed to Hamas, Palestinians, Israelis and even religion groups and whats said is that they do this blindly.



I suppose you do have a point. It’s fairly difficult to make a proper assessment of what’s going on. However, Hamas does make public statements and so does Israel. We can discern their intentions based on their actions and their statements as well as the documents defining their factions. Hamas cannot exist in peace with Israel. The faction exists for the sake of destroying Israel-which just isn’t going to happen. Let’s be realistic. Even a united Palestine couldn’t dream of defeating Israel.

You discussed Israel having a right to the land. That’s a tricky topic for many reasons. Yes, the Jews were there first but that doesn’t mean it was their land. It’d be like if you invited me over to your house for a cup of tea. Then you invite another friend over. This friend and I get into an argument and he kicks me out.

Yes, I was there first-but it wasn’t my house. The Jews didn’t originally have a real claim to the land. Originally the Hebrew people were nomads who. They found the territory in question to be hospitable and settled down. They built homes and cities but never had a central government to rule the land.

Eventually the Jews were conquered first by one faction and then the next. They remained in Israel and called it home but over time it was passed from one ruler to the next. There were a few brief points when the Jews managed to get into office and run their nation, but they were brief.

They were conquered again and again. By the time the Romans showed up the land did not belong to Israel. It had been taken from them. The region was not a nation but rather a series of Carthaginian provinces. In 70 CE Titus marched on Jerusalem. Titus was a Roman general famous for his hatred of the Jews. He let the gentiles in the region go but not the Jews.

Many of them he killed, the rest he sold into slavery and dragged back to Italy. Rome then renamed the region Palestine. Arab nomads then settled down into Palestine. It was ‘a land without people for a people without land.’ The Palestinians were just squatters, it was still Rome’s land. They just lived there.

When Rome fell apart many of the Jews went back home to Jerusalem. This didn’t sit well with the Palestinian Arabs. So much time had passed that they didn’t remember how they’d gotten the land. To them it was home and the Jews were invading their homes. The Jews-who’d just spent generations in servile labor-were hard workers who would labor for next to nothing.

They stole jobs and opportunities from the Palestinian Arabs. So, the Jews were then persecuted. This persecution climaxed with the foundation of Islam years later. Although Muhammad was actually fairly kind to the Jews-so long as they didn’t try to convert Muslims to Judaism-his successors lacked his wisdom and kindness.

Islam is a peaceful religion, I think. But it does have a bloody past. Eventually the Jews were forced out of the middle east by Muslims AND Christians. (The Crusades playing a major role in Christian contribution.) Anyway, the Jews are forced to flee.

So, Palestine won. They forced the Jews out and claimed the territory. It’s their home now, right? Well, sort of. They still don’t have a governmental claim to the territory and there’s still the fact that the Jews were there first.

Anyway, prior to WWII Jews flood into Germany. They illegally immigrate and start taking jobs from Germans. Again, we’ve got a hardy people. Here’s where the stereotype that Jews are great with money was originally formed. You see, the Jews would work for years and save up their money. They wouldn’t indulge in anything. They would nearly starve. Then, when they had a small fortune saved up, they’d buy property.

Also, Christians of that time weren’t permitted to work as bankers. (In traditional Christianity you’re allowed to lend money but you can’t charge interest. That’s not true of Judaism.) So, the Jews work as bankers. Bankers make a lot of money. They then buy more property and hire more Jews because they know the Jews work harder for less.

Well, this caused hatred of the Jews and then Hitler shows up. Thousands of holocaust survivors fled back to, guess where…Palestine! They cried, ‘A land without people for a people without land.”

The Arab Palestinians had no real claim to the land. They were just squatting, remember? Well, now the Jews wanted to squat with them. The territory is currently a part of the British Mandate. It doesn’t belong to the Jews or the Palestinians but to Briton. The two people squat with relative peace for a moment…UNTIL!

Hitler shows up and threatens to invade Palestine. The Jews and Palestinians start to make deals with Hitler to get him to agree to leave their homes alone. Essentially, Hitler says “Do this or I’m going to slaughter you.” So, Jews start blowing up British buildings. Palestinians start blowing up Jews. Terrorism runs rampart and the hatred between Jews and Palestinian Arabs reached a new height. Neither side realized that Hitler’s the mastermind. Palestinian boy looks at his dead dad and sees the Jewish woman who blew his head off. Jews are bad. Jewish girl sees her dead mom and the Palestinian man who blew her into pink mist. Palestinians are bad.

After WWII Briton has a chance to straighten things out. Instead of doing the responsible thing they just abandon the Middle East to chaos. (Things like this is what makes me less than fond of the United Kingdom.)

The United Nations comes in and negotiates border agreements that favor the Jews. The Palestinians don’t realize they’re being screwed and agree. The Jews realized they’re getting a great deal and also agree. Well, later on the Palestinians realized what happened and aren’t happy.

One moment they control all of Palestine and the next half of it is being called Israel. The good half! So, they get angry and attack Israel. Israel retaliates and actually winds up getting more land. The Palestinians say Israel violated the border agreement by capturing cities such as Acre during this war. Israel says that the Palestinians violated the agreement by attacking them and that it was already null by the time they ceased the extra land.

So, a metaphor:

I own a watch. Somebody steals it. They sell this watch to you. I take the watch back. In my eyes you’re the thief. In your eyes I’m the thief.

This conflict is the world’s biggest misunderstanding!



Yes I read about all of that, but I wasn't clear on the squatting part, thanks for clearing that up.

I'm going to go and read up a little bit more on this because I remember I started but my exams pretty much messed everything up for me.

What really sucks though is how the media is manipulating everyone and everyone is falling for it again and again... seriously the only time I'll believe anything is unless I've seen it with my own two eyes.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 1/12/09 , edited 1/12/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:

Al Jeezra good source for info because they cover both sides unlike what we hear over here which covers one side.



Did you just say that Al Jazeera was a good source? Oh my goodness...That’s a load of complete crap and if you don’t realize it then…you’re just not really worth conversing with anymore. Al Jazeera is not a reliable news source. It makes Fox News and CNN look fair and balanced!

Anyway, I don’t see why everyone is convinced that CNN is all for the Jews. Here are a few things I’ve personally seen on CNN in the past few days:

-Israel violates cease fire (bull shit,)

- Israel targeting civilians (bull shit,)

- Israel bombs UN shelter claiming that militants used it to fire on them. There were no militants. (That was actually being aired on Fox and other news stations, and everyone thought it was true. The UN said that Israel was lying. Later on it turned out that Israel wasn’t lying. So, this wasn’t really CNN’s fault because everyone made the same mistake…but it’s still bull.)




Well we are entitled to our own opinion seeing your a staunch supporter of Israel and they never be wrong I would understand why you wouldht like Al Jeezra. I like that they interview people on both sides rather then just Israel officials or pro Israel supporters like the USA does. Is it the best source no but it is a great alternative.
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 1/12/09 , edited 1/12/09

drizza wrote:
Well we are entitled to our own opinion seeing your a staunch supporter of Israel and they never be wrong I would understand why you wouldht like Al Jeezra. I like that they interview people on both sides rather then just Israel officials or pro Israel supporters like the USA does. Is it the best source no but it is a great alternative.


Yeah, if you think that Al Jazeera is a ‘good alternative,’ then you’re just diluted. Al Jazeera is worse than any American news station by far. It’s universally acknowledged as an anti-Jewish media with a personal agenda. Just because their biased presentation agrees with your biased opinion doesn’t mean that they’re fair or balanced or a good source of accurate information.

That’s be like me saying that CNN is fair and balanced because I happen to be liberal. That’s a load of crap and we both know it. I support a lot of what CNN is pushing for, but the fact that they’re pushing for something is clear. CNN is actually more biased than Fox news (which is absurdly slanted towards a conservative agenda,) and yet still no where near is absurd as Al Jazeera.


I'm almost speechless that somebody would describe -that- as a 'good alternative,' or a 'balanced source,' you're better off watching Russian news.

Anyway, just because Israel is doing something doesn't mean they're automatically wrong. That you'd treat me as if I'm being one sided is absolutely hilarious. I’ve repeatedly expressed negative opinions of Israel and her actions. I've even shed light on many of their own faults. I went so far as to point out that they are breaking their own laws and using human shields. I have not seen you -once- point out something negative about Palestine or even Hamas. You actually defended Hamas. They're a faction standing for genocide, and you defend them. Why? Because they stand for genocide against the Jews.

I’ve simply noted that while what she’s doing is morally wrong it’s still within her rights. You on the other hand have constantly defended Hamas and have yet to acknowledge that they have any fault in this.

There’s really no point in continuing this conversation. Please don’t quote my post because I don’t want another notification. You can reply but I probably wont read it. I’m done with this argument.
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

AleeceNoTenshi wrote:

Yes I read about all of that, but I wasn't clear on the squatting part, thanks for clearing that up.

I'm going to go and read up a little bit more on this because I remember I started but my exams pretty much messed everything up for me.

What really sucks though is how the media is manipulating everyone and everyone is falling for it again and again... seriously the only time I'll believe anything is unless I've seen it with my own two eyes.


The media is useful for statistical information. So, if they say “900 Palestinians have died, just over 300 are citizens. Two thirds are women and children,” it’s safe to assume that the numbers are correct. What you have to question is when they start saying, “Israel killed them in cold blood,” or “Israel didn’t mean to kill them and it was a complete accident.”

It’s also useful for getting quotes. They’re very careful to get citations down word for word. However, liberal medias tend to cite things out of context. Some conservative stations do this to, but I’ve noticed it really bad with CNN but its true of Fox to a slightly lesser degree. Fox did this really bad to Obama. “I want to teach sex ed to kindergarteners,” my ass. He did say that but I watched that speech. He did say sex ed but they were talking about ‘inappropriate touching,’ and if you listen to the whole event that’s pretty clear. So, really, you do have to be careful.

But again, statistics and citations are usually true. They just select which ones to show based on what they’re trying to do. Anyway, I’m glad I could help.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 1/12/09 , edited 1/12/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:
Well we are entitled to our own opinion seeing your a staunch supporter of Israel and they never be wrong I would understand why you wouldht like Al Jeezra. I like that they interview people on both sides rather then just Israel officials or pro Israel supporters like the USA does. Is it the best source no but it is a great alternative.


Yeah, if you think that Al Jazeera is a ‘good alternative,’ then you’re just diluted. Al Jazeera is worse than any American news station by far. It’s universally acknowledged as an anti-Jewish media with a personal agenda. Just because their biased presentation agrees with your biased opinion doesn’t mean that they’re fair or balanced or a good source of accurate information.

That’s be like me saying that CNN is fair and balanced because I happen to be liberal. That’s a load of crap and we both know it. I support a lot of what CNN is pushing for, but the fact that they’re pushing for something is clear. CNN is actually more biased than Fox news (which is absurdly slanted towards a conservative agenda,) and yet still no where near is absurd as Al Jazeera.


I'm almost speechless that somebody would describe -that- as a 'good alternative,' or a 'balanced source,' you're better off watching Russian news.

Anyway, just because Israel is doing something doesn't mean they're automatically wrong. That you'd treat me as if I'm being one sided is absolutely hilarious. I’ve repeatedly expressed negative opinions of Israel and her actions. I've even shed light on many of their own faults. I went so far as to point out that they are breaking their own laws and using human shields. I have not seen you -once- point out something negative about Palestine or even Hamas. You actually defended Hamas. They're a faction standing for genocide, and you defend them. Why? Because they stand for genocide against the Jews.

I’ve simply noted that while what she’s doing is morally wrong it’s still within her rights. You on the other hand have constantly defended Hamas and have yet to acknowledge that they have any fault in this.

There’s really no point in continuing this conversation. Please don’t quote my post because I don’t want another notification. You can reply but I probably wont read it. I’m done with this argument.


Yea fancy that anti jewish thats typical because anyone who criticizes Israel is anti whatever just like Jimmy Carter who said nothing anti semetic but he was under attack because he book criticized Israel. You are the one diluted my friend and that phoney anti jewish/anti semetic attack doesnt work on the outside world. I stated millions of times in many threads and it is a proven fact here in the USA to silence any critics of Israel if they are not jewish you call them anti semetic if they are jewish you call them self hating jews. Who in the so far been able to criticize Israel and get lots of air play? Dont worry I will wait. Unless they are blantly attacking Jewish religion as US media outlets do then you can come to me and say that. In fact probably the only people who see this station as anti semetic are brainwashed people in the USA and the media to keep you from knowing what you need to know. Lol they are such jew haters I dont even know why Israel officials would bother even coming on their station right? I could care less if you dont read it dont quote me if you dont want a response. I stated my views on Hamas on your other thread if you dont want to read it I really dont care either I am not here to impress you.
636 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Andromeda
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


drizza wrote:
Well we are entitled to our own opinion seeing your a staunch supporter of Israel and they never be wrong I would understand why you wouldht like Al Jeezra. I like that they interview people on both sides rather then just Israel officials or pro Israel supporters like the USA does. Is it the best source no but it is a great alternative.


Yeah, if you think that Al Jazeera is a ‘good alternative,’ then you’re just diluted. Al Jazeera is worse than any American news station by far. It’s universally acknowledged as an anti-Jewish media with a personal agenda. Just because their biased presentation agrees with your biased opinion doesn’t mean that they’re fair or balanced or a good source of accurate information.



Rachel Corrie, Tom Hurndall, James Miller were anti-Jewish, Yes?



P.S.
-You can't judge this issue without hearing the other side, and so I have gave up argue on that since digs's thread, even though I read most posts here and there.
-Your idea here is unrealistic and illogical even according 2 Newton's III law.
-If you consider bring evidence pictures as emotions and a lack of basis in the argument, wonder if someone blindly supports another, incites him to continue his actions no matter how much they deteriorate, isn't that person the more emotional one?.
4344 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / auckland
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

FZTime wrote:

Well i'll read up more on this and get back to you as i'm just basing my opinions on the information given by the thread starter and you.

would you kindly give a little information on as this is getting a little confusing for me here.

but basically, I feel that if Isreal provoked the Hamas attack by constructing buildings in the Palestine's territory then the instigator would be Isreal.
If it was Hamas who just attacked Isreal, they would be the one at fault.

as for the thread starter's support of Isreal for the sake of the palestinians, I think he said something (i'm not too sure) about the isolation and denial of food supplies was to try to eliminate the Hamas in the two cities and the Palestinians were caught in the crossfire as (if i'm correct) it was a Palestinian city.

i'm just trying to reason out both you and the thread starters opinion. I hate this war and according to some, attacks on Isreal and by Isreal will never end so i couldn't really be bothered about it. oh and yeah most people actually don't have enough sensibility to post sensible stuff relevant to the topics.



Well basically both palestine and israel signed a temporary truce. It was all good until Israel demands all gaza strips and west bank borders be closed, neighboring country's borders included (like egypt for example). Oh and construct a defensive wall which is near a river and cuts off water supply for Palestine as a side-effect

It's an understandable action for Israel to close the borders because Hamas keep smuggling weapon through these borders and Israel were probably concerned about her security. And the wall for the same reason

But those borders entrance are also the only way Palestine's civilian can recieve food and basic medical aids from the UN. And those walls. Again, I understand it's probably to keep the radical terrorist away. But Israel should've put more consideration in constructing them because.. Water supply is a matter of life and death to the Palestinian civilian. (which btw, means that, contrary to OP's claim, starving the Palestinian is NOT part of the "war". That wasn't a battle strategy by Israel. It's just one of those dumb shit OP says alot)

I'm not saying all these to justify the Hamas firing rockets at Israel. They should've picked a better negotiating method. I'm not on the hamas side neither. But i'm just saying that. Not all of this conflict's fault lies at their feet. There's more to the story than them just being a crazy jihadist doing crazy stuff like usual.

I'm just sick of OP's comment like.. "Palestine is just like a small kid with bad attitude that bla bla bla and try to play victim after" or like.. "hamas should be completely eradicated, they initiated this war and they all must die" or like "I can clinically say that closing off food and water supply is just part of war". You know. A lot more dumb ass shit like that. I mean like.. One of a poster here is jewish. And pro-israel. But even she doesn't sound as extreme as OP and willing to consider both side of the story.
10513 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / In your room stea...
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

kyoukoujin wrote:


Topic: Want to help Palestinian victims? Help Israel!




What kind of help do you really want us to do?
- give sympathy/empathy
- fight their fights
- deploy missiles
- write letters to higher authorities and inform them of what we think
- acknowledge that real bad things are happening overseas
- send our top medical resources to aid them
- evacuate every single civilians to a proper, safe place
- send food and clothing

???


Heh, the best method of helping one side of the other is slaughter the opposing side. Using whatever means you can, if that means using rockets then use rockets, if it means using carpet bombings, then use carpet bombings. But complaining about it because innocent people are dying, is going to do nothing. Innocent people die all the time in war's. It's not a big deal. Isreal got attacked first, they attack back, and people complain, that's bullshit, they have every right attack back. It's how it works. So what if people who weren't involved die, it's war, shit happens. Isreal is most likely going to win, deal with it. Stop fucking complaining about it, there is nothing you can do, unless you go join one army and fight, unless you do that, shut the fuck up about this conflict. Writing letters and complaining does nothing in a time of war. Deal with it.
2142 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / America, Fuck Yeah.
Offline
Posted 1/12/09

Allhailodin wrote:


kyoukoujin wrote:


Topic: Want to help Palestinian victims? Help Israel!




What kind of help do you really want us to do?
- give sympathy/empathy
- fight their fights
- deploy missiles
- write letters to higher authorities and inform them of what we think
- acknowledge that real bad things are happening overseas
- send our top medical resources to aid them
- evacuate every single civilians to a proper, safe place
- send food and clothing

???


Heh, the best method of helping one side of the other is slaughter the opposing side. Using whatever means you can, if that means using rockets then use rockets, if it means using carpet bombings, then use carpet bombings. But complaining about it because innocent people are dying, is going to do nothing. Innocent people die all the time in war's. It's not a big deal. Isreal got attacked first, they attack back, and people complain, that's bullshit, they have every right attack back. It's how it works. So what if people who weren't involved die, it's war, shit happens. Isreal is most likely going to win, deal with it. Stop fucking complaining about it, there is nothing you can do, unless you go join one army and fight, unless you do that, shut the fuck up about this conflict. Writing letters and complaining does nothing in a time of war. Deal with it.


Amen.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.