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Science proves that God exists?
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24 / M / O.C. So.Cal
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Posted 1/12/09 , edited 1/20/09
Ok, think back to the beginning of chemistry class where you learn your first chem law

The conservation of mass, which means matter cannot be created nor destroyed (altho einstein proves this wrong but i'll get to that in a sec)

According to this law, then there wouldn't be anything here today, scince nothing can be created nor destroyed.

Here's another law, but from physics.

Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.

So imagine, if somehow mass WAS created, it would be simply just floating around not moving at all. There would have to be someone to give a little push, to cause this enormous chain of reaction for us to be living.

Here's another famous equation E=mc squared. (E stands for energy, m stands for mass, c stands for the speed of light) This means that all mass, every single atom CAN be created, if there are enormous amounts of energy and extremely high speeds, but again, you can't have that unless you have Newton's first law of physics, NOTHING can move unless there is some kind of force.

So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Agree with me? or think im just a procrastinator who should be working on his massive amounts of homework right now but is too lazy and decided to post his lame ass thoughts on the internet?

comment and discuss


EDIT: for those saying that God should be believed through faith yes i agree with you too. You guys aren't getting my point. The reason why i created this thread was to show that there has to be some outer force not following the rules of physics. Can it be the Christian God? I believe so but that is up for the individual to decide. All i'm proving is that there IS a god out there, not saying that it was Jesus did all this
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Posted 1/13/09
Deleted irrelevant stuff. Please either support this thread to its requirements or don't participate in this.

For me, what does it matter if science proves or doesn't prove his existence? I believe science proves it, but for Christians, it's not where your focus should be. Do not look to science to take comfort in knowing what you want to believe is there.

Know that he is there and the holy spirit will be your witness to the things of God. Seek Him, and he will show you himself, and his person, but seek science, all you get are theses and theses of man influenced ideas and opinions and findings many of which are hard facts. As you understand him, he will reveal to you the secrets of heaven on earth.

It's not right to say that God is just a faith God either. So everything on earth which is documented in the bible is not right? Therefore, if the bible is the word of God, the author is the Holy Spirit guiding these apostles, they are false?




I'll just share a couple of these things I've learnt through listening to my pastor unravelling Jesus. You may choose to refute or accept, I will not attempt to prove myself right, since I am no science expert. You know now that the earth spins on an axis of 23.5 degrees? This creates the 4 seasons, because of the position of earth surface gets uneven exposure to the sun.

Before Noah's flood, the earth didn't spin at an angle at all. Without the tilt, the entire earth is evenly covered by the sun, there would not be the four seasons, places would get even number of day and night everywhere.

But when God flooded the earth, he tilted the earth so that the waters would gather at both ends of axis. This is where you get your north and south pole. If earth was straight back up, or tilted at an angle just a little less or more, the earth would either get burnt of closeness to the sun, or flooded by the waters again. You can try to find scientific backing to this if you want.

First mentions in the bible is important. Often, we rely on other people to interpret the bible for us, but actually, apart from that, God has placed in believers the holy spirit as a guide to witness to truth such that when we hear truth being preached, it gives comfort because truth being spoken actually confirms what you already know but haven't realised. If you feel uneasy after listening to sermons because the messages preaches a heavy sermon about a judgemental God, a wrathful God who only seeks punishment, then please don't continue listening to those.

After Noah's flood, when he left the boat to take a look outside, the bible first mentions the appearance of a rainbow, which has never appeared before. This rainbow refers to no more judgement, which can be cross-referenced to other mentions of rainbow in the bible.

I'll just quote a man who attends the same church as I do:


Christians ought to model themselves unto Jesus who has a rainbow or no judgment mentality towards His children.

Jesus has a rainbow crowning his head (Rev 10) and reading this with Isa 54:9, we have the assurance that God has no judgment towards those who believe in His Son.


Please read the rest of the article here if you're interested. I find it to be a great refreshing for me.
http://tycm.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/the-cross-your-redemption-from-shame-and-reproach-7-dec-2008-1st-svc/

Today, the New covenant writes of a God who has already cut the covenant deal with Jesus, grace in exchange for Law. The grace of Christ superabounds where the law condemns. When you see his grace, he sees your faith. Therefore, don't try to muster faith to believe in him blindly. Your God that I believe in feeds the birds of the land, he clothes the lilies of the field. If he pays attention to small details, what more will he neglect his children, seated at his right hand in Christ?

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24 / location location...
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Posted 1/12/09
God the spam this thread is receiving.
You have a theory, that's all you have.

Like garcon said, God wishes that we believe in Him via faith, for how good is it for those who had not seen and yet believe.

I can't give you my opinion because I believe in God and that no matter how many theories or proof there are, I'll still continue believing in Him. After all, there's no harm having a little hope.
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26 / M / New York City, NY
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Posted 1/12/09

LemonyPanda wrote:

Ok, think back to the beginning of chemistry class where you learn your first chem law

The conservation of mass, which means matter cannot be created nor destroyed (altho einstein proves this wrong but i'll get to that in a sec)

According to this law, then there wouldn't be anything here today, scince nothing can be created nor destroyed.

Here's another law, but from physics.

Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.

So imagine, if somehow mass WAS created, it would be simply just floating around not moving at all. There would have to be someone to give a little push, to cause this enormous chain of reaction for us to be living.

Here's another famous equation E=mc squared. (E stands for energy, m stands for mass, c stands for the speed of light) This means that all mass, every single atom CAN be created, if there are enormous amounts of energy and extremely high speeds, but again, you can't have that unless you have Newton's first law of physics, NOTHING can move unless there is some kind of force.

So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? Not to mention creating life and humans who can rationalize, think, have morales for themselves, and to CREATE life as well. (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Agree with me? or think im just a procrastinator who should be working on his massive amounts of homework right now but is too lazy and decided to post his lame ass thoughts on the internet?

comment and discuss


Infinite regression works against the supernatural as well as the natural. Albert Einstein doesn't disprove conservation of mass, because it is conserved in another form.

Mass would not be floating around; particles would be floating around. And particles wouldn't be floating around because there would be no universe to float around in.

The net energy of the universe proves that the universe has always been around. Because it's zero.
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Posted 1/13/09

garcon wrote:

the bible----proves it too right?(History).....though i know....scientifically---there are doubts of the validity of the bible and GOd's existence. But as christians, GOd doesn't want us to believe in him by proofs, he wants us to believe in him through faith ....and that what makes GOd really mysterious and a GOD....

well, you can list a thousand proofs of why God and why God doesn't exist---------but i really don't care bout that anymore...ive been in that stage..and ive realized...i cant prove or disapprove his existence thru logical rationalization.....


^ Exactly this.

I get asked by so many people, how can I believe in God?

My answer to them is always: The life I've lived and the experiences I've had is more than enough 'proof' of his existence. I've witnessed his miracles first hand and I've felt his love and I know with out a doubt that he is real. Having said that I understand that not everyone is fortunate enough to have felt God and to have seen his work firsthand so to them they can't understand how we can believe in such a deity.

I stopped trying to argue and convince people that he is real a long time ago. I'll gladly discuss him with anyone how ever, and give counsel to anyone seeking guidance.

:)
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Posted 1/13/09


I would like to say something about this if you will allow me. Delete it if not.

If Earth was not tilted before the Great Flood, the flood would not even kill people. In fact, people will not even exist as the Earth will not have ice caps and it will be hotter than it is not. Why is that? First of all, the ice caps are still ice because of the seasons and the color white's ability to reflect. Without seasons, those ices will melt just like what happens every summer. The heat of the sun varies but without the tilt, that variation would not even matter. It will just heat the Earth and pretty much melt the ice which in turn only allows few pieces of land to even surface.
And the Great Flood likely did not even happen as the Bible had it written so it is almost impossible for the theory that this flood caused Earth's tilting. Earth does not even have enough water to cover all the lands. That would mean the water will reach the stratosphere. So that just pretty much ruined the 40 days of rain because the clouds drowned themselves.
I cannot remember it well but I believe this is the part of the Bible to be thought as taken from Gilgamesh. I need to research on it more though so I should stop it here.
As for the topic of god's existence being proven by science, I do not think it does. It was noted that the law of conservation of mass disproves the existence of matter. This is highly based on how you interpret it. The problem lies on how the Universe even existed. If the Big Bang theory is right, then Law of Conservation of Mass is proven. Though, I do not believe at Bing Bang theory my self even if it is the most accepted creation of universe theory.
Of course, that does not clearly disproves the existence of a God nor does it prove it. That also does not even disprove that Leprechauns do not exists. I am implying that this is a highly subjective topic. It depends on how you interpret words and what you believe in.
But removing the universe out of the picture ( Human beings have not, after all, figured out all of the stuff about the universe), it is clear that chemistry proves that mass and energy are converted instead of created or obliterated. So in Earth's Law of Conservation of Mass and Energy, God does not exists. But that is just Earth's.

I do not intend to step on anyone's belief by the way. If I ever did, I apologize in advance.
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Posted 1/13/09

Ithemba wrote:


garcon wrote:

the bible----proves it too right?(History).....though i know....scientifically---there are doubts of the validity of the bible and GOd's existence. But as christians, GOd doesn't want us to believe in him by proofs, he wants us to believe in him through faith ....and that what makes GOd really mysterious and a GOD....

well, you can list a thousand proofs of why God and why God doesn't exist---------but i really don't care bout that anymore...ive been in that stage..and ive realized...i cant prove or disapprove his existence thru logical rationalization.....


^ Exactly this.

I get asked by so many people, how can I believe in God?

My answer to them is always: The life I've lived and the experiences I've had is more than enough 'proof' of his existence. I've witnessed his miracles first hand and I've felt his love and I know with out a doubt that he is real. Having said that I understand that not everyone is fortunate enough to have felt God and to have seen his work firsthand so to them they can't understand how we can believe in such a deity.

I stopped trying to argue and convince people that he is real a long time ago. I'll gladly discuss him with anyone how ever, and give counsel to anyone seeking guidance.

:)



oh...i respect the atheist...even if my country is called the only Catholic country in Asia....there are only a few who practice true Christianity....and as you said--"not everyone is fortunate enough to have felt God and to have seen his work firsthand so (for some of the practicing Christians here) they can't understand why they believe in God...----THAT'S WHAT I'VE NOTICED

.All believe in what the church says---but most just leave it like that----i mean they dont really evaluate what they believe in ( and i think it's bad coz they just rely on laws, but they dont try to know God more than what the laws are saying).

.There are a lot of Christian, non-catholic, groups in our country-----and we all have varying beliefs, so i used to debate with these non-catholic christians----coz i thought at that time Catholic ideologies are always right, but then ive figured it out there's no use debating over these things---it's really useless....

yeah like you----i always give advice to people, and i share ideas of what i think about GOd.Some people find me silly, but others also appreciate it...it depends upon the person.


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Posted 1/13/09
"Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge" or "knowing") is the effort to discover, and increase human understanding of how the physical world works. Using controlled methods, scientists collect data in the form of observations, records of observable physical evidence of natural phenomena, and analyze this information to construct theoretical explanations of how things work. " - Wikipedia

I guess science can't prove it enough just as faith does .. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4: 18 (NIV)
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24 / M / O.C. So.Cal
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Posted 1/13/09

leviathan343 wrote:


LemonyPanda wrote:

Ok, think back to the beginning of chemistry class where you learn your first chem law

The conservation of mass, which means matter cannot be created nor destroyed (altho einstein proves this wrong but i'll get to that in a sec)

According to this law, then there wouldn't be anything here today, scince nothing can be created nor destroyed.

Here's another law, but from physics.

Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.

So imagine, if somehow mass WAS created, it would be simply just floating around not moving at all. There would have to be someone to give a little push, to cause this enormous chain of reaction for us to be living.

Here's another famous equation E=mc squared. (E stands for energy, m stands for mass, c stands for the speed of light) This means that all mass, every single atom CAN be created, if there are enormous amounts of energy and extremely high speeds, but again, you can't have that unless you have Newton's first law of physics, NOTHING can move unless there is some kind of force.

So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? Not to mention creating life and humans who can rationalize, think, have morales for themselves, and to CREATE life as well. (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Agree with me? or think im just a procrastinator who should be working on his massive amounts of homework right now but is too lazy and decided to post his lame ass thoughts on the internet?

comment and discuss


Infinite regression works against the supernatural as well as the natural. Albert Einstein doesn't disprove conservation of mass, because it is conserved in another form.

Mass would not be floating around; particles would be floating around. And particles wouldn't be floating around because there would be no universe to float around in.

The net energy of the universe proves that the universe has always been around. Because it's zero.


and what "particles" are we talking about. Anything exists either in the form of mass or energy. You can't just simple create the other.
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25 / M / Somewhere.... per...
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Posted 1/13/09
I think thats all nature...
and if you claim that Nature's works is the work of God's... you are free to do so...
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Posted 1/13/09
I got this from 4chan so don't blame me >> ATHEISM

The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.

Makes perfect sense.
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Posted 1/13/09

LemonyPanda wrote:

Ok, think back to the beginning of chemistry class where you learn your first chem law

The conservation of mass, which means matter cannot be created nor destroyed (altho einstein proves this wrong but i'll get to that in a sec)

According to this law, then there wouldn't be anything here today, scince nothing can be created nor destroyed.

Here's another law, but from physics.

Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.

So imagine, if somehow mass WAS created, it would be simply just floating around not moving at all. There would have to be someone to give a little push, to cause this enormous chain of reaction for us to be living.

Here's another famous equation E=mc squared. (E stands for energy, m stands for mass, c stands for the speed of light) This means that all mass, every single atom CAN be created, if there are enormous amounts of energy and extremely high speeds, but again, you can't have that unless you have Newton's first law of physics, NOTHING can move unless there is some kind of force.

So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? Not to mention creating life and humans who can rationalize, think, have morales for themselves, and to CREATE life as well. (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Agree with me? or think im just a procrastinator who should be working on his massive amounts of homework right now but is too lazy and decided to post his lame ass thoughts on the internet?

comment and discuss


EDIT: for those saying that God should be believed through faith yes i agree with you too. You guys aren't getting my point. The reason why i created this thread was to show that there has to be some outer force not following the rules of physics. Can it be the Christian God? I believe so but that is up for the individual to decide. All i'm proving is that there IS a god out there, not saying that it was Jesus did all this


Congratulations your an Agnostic
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27 / M / Texas
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Posted 1/13/09
Science will always look for an explanation to anything but I believe in God and that he created the universe.
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24 / M / O.C. So.Cal
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Posted 1/13/09

Fightingmonkey wrote:


LemonyPanda wrote:

Ok, think back to the beginning of chemistry class where you learn your first chem law

The conservation of mass, which means matter cannot be created nor destroyed (altho einstein proves this wrong but i'll get to that in a sec)

According to this law, then there wouldn't be anything here today, scince nothing can be created nor destroyed.

Here's another law, but from physics.

Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.

So imagine, if somehow mass WAS created, it would be simply just floating around not moving at all. There would have to be someone to give a little push, to cause this enormous chain of reaction for us to be living.

Here's another famous equation E=mc squared. (E stands for energy, m stands for mass, c stands for the speed of light) This means that all mass, every single atom CAN be created, if there are enormous amounts of energy and extremely high speeds, but again, you can't have that unless you have Newton's first law of physics, NOTHING can move unless there is some kind of force.

So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? Not to mention creating life and humans who can rationalize, think, have morales for themselves, and to CREATE life as well. (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Agree with me? or think im just a procrastinator who should be working on his massive amounts of homework right now but is too lazy and decided to post his lame ass thoughts on the internet?

comment and discuss


EDIT: for those saying that God should be believed through faith yes i agree with you too. You guys aren't getting my point. The reason why i created this thread was to show that there has to be some outer force not following the rules of physics. Can it be the Christian God? I believe so but that is up for the individual to decide. All i'm proving is that there IS a god out there, not saying that it was Jesus did all this


Congratulations your an Agnostic


no im a Christian im just witholding my religious beliefs for the sake of this argument
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Posted 1/13/09

LemonyPanda wrote:



no im a Christian im just witholding my religious beliefs for the sake of this argument


How noble of you
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