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Science proves that God exists?
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Posted 1/16/09

LemonyPanda wrote:

Ok, think back to the beginning of chemistry class where you learn your first chem law

The conservation of mass, which means matter cannot be created nor destroyed (altho einstein proves this wrong but i'll get to that in a sec)

According to this law, then there wouldn't be anything here today, scince nothing can be created nor destroyed.

Here's another law, but from physics.

Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.

So imagine, if somehow mass WAS created, it would be simply just floating around not moving at all. There would have to be someone to give a little push, to cause this enormous chain of reaction for us to be living.

Here's another famous equation E=mc squared. (E stands for energy, m stands for mass, c stands for the speed of light) This means that all mass, every single atom CAN be created, if there are enormous amounts of energy and extremely high speeds, but again, you can't have that unless you have Newton's first law of physics, NOTHING can move unless there is some kind of force.

So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? Not to mention creating life and humans who can rationalize, think, have morales for themselves, and to CREATE life as well. (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Agree with me? or think im just a procrastinator who should be working on his massive amounts of homework right now but is too lazy and decided to post his lame ass thoughts on the internet?

comment and discuss


EDIT: for those saying that God should be believed through faith yes i agree with you too. You guys aren't getting my point. The reason why i created this thread was to show that there has to be some outer force not following the rules of physics. Can it be the Christian God? I believe so but that is up for the individual to decide. All i'm proving is that there IS a god out there, not saying that it was Jesus did all this


yes i agree with you (thats why im agnostic...)

i have to say, you ought not call this a god tho... since...
first of all, we still do not know the whole thing of science... (the majority of the science we study are from earth, what about those not on earth?... we still dont know much yet...)
second of all, god is too religious sounded... call it the creator :O


PS. JESUS IS A CRIMINAL!(HE GOT NAILED INTO THE CROSS FOR HANGING AROUND WITH HIS FRIENDS --THIEF,BEGGARS, AND LOW CLASS PEOPLE AND TEACHING THEM ABOUT HIS COUNTRY IN THE SKY).HIS MOTHER IS A FREAKING WHORE (SHE COMMITTED SOMETHING KNOWN AS SIN IN THE BIBLE OF THEIRS -- ADULTERY. I MEAN, SHE GAVE BIRTH TO THIS GUY JESUS WITHOUT BEING MARRIED... WHAT CONTRADICTIONS...) THE CROSS DOES NOT STAND FOR HOLINESS, IT IS MEANT FOR EXECUTION!!!
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Posted 1/17/09 , edited 1/17/09

LemonyPanda wrote:

Ok, think back to the beginning of chemistry class where you learn your first chem law

The conservation of mass, which means matter cannot be created nor destroyed (altho einstein proves this wrong but i'll get to that in a sec)

According to this law, then there wouldn't be anything here today, scince nothing can be created nor destroyed.

Here's another law, but from physics.

Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.

So imagine, if somehow mass WAS created, it would be simply just floating around not moving at all. There would have to be someone to give a little push, to cause this enormous chain of reaction for us to be living.

Here's another famous equation E=mc squared. (E stands for energy, m stands for mass, c stands for the speed of light) This means that all mass, every single atom CAN be created, if there are enormous amounts of energy and extremely high speeds, but again, you can't have that unless you have Newton's first law of physics, NOTHING can move unless there is some kind of force.

So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? Not to mention creating life and humans who can rationalize, think, have morales for themselves, and to CREATE life as well. (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Agree with me? or think im just a procrastinator who should be working on his massive amounts of homework right now but is too lazy and decided to post his lame ass thoughts on the internet?

comment and discuss


EDIT: for those saying that God should be believed through faith yes i agree with you too. You guys aren't getting my point. The reason why i created this thread was to show that there has to be some outer force not following the rules of physics. Can it be the Christian God? I believe so but that is up for the individual to decide. All i'm proving is that there IS a god out there, not saying that it was Jesus did all this


so many words @.@ but some really good points in there. and finally there is a Christain thread in teh Extended Discussion section. All I see in the Extended Discussion section is a bunch of Atheist proving Christianity wrong and crap like that. it's annoying, so I thank you :)
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Posted 1/17/09 , edited 1/17/09
Well where the matter came from can be explained by saying a previous universe existed which then collapsed into a tiny sphere which exploded into out current universe, thus no matter was created or destroyed.


Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.


In space where there is no air resistance a tiny push will send an object flying off forever until it gets into the gravational pull of another object, which will either slow it down or speed it up. But on earth air resistance will always slow it down, even in a vaccum it will as it's not a perfect vaccum and still has some air inside, also earths gravity will bring it to a stop


So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? Not to mention creating life and humans who can rationalize, think, have morales for themselves, and to CREATE life as well. (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Life exists because certain conditions were met that allowed inorganic material to combine and become organic, which slowly evolved and became multi-celled organisms. there is no purpose for life, it has no meaning, it simply exists. humans have no purpose just as a plankton cell has no purpose. It merely exists because certian conditions were met. Simple.

god is something humans created as something to look up to in hard times, rather pathetic really. people need the comfort of some "higer being" to do simple every day tasks. Then the churches take "god" ans use it as a means to get money from you, and they use you for their own gain. thats all they really do is use you for money, they dont care about you or your faith, they just want your hard earned cash.
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24 / M / O.C. So.Cal
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Posted 1/17/09 , edited 1/17/09

Well where the matter came from can be explained by saying a previous universe existed which then collapsed into a tiny sphere which exploded into out current universe, thus no matter was created or destroyed.


ummm...are you not thinking properly? why don't you look at the big picture. how do you explain how that "previous universe" came to be?


In space where there is no air resistance a tiny push will send an object flying off forever until it gets into the gravational pull of another object, which will either slow it down or speed it up. But on earth air resistance will always slow it down, even in a vaccum it will as it's not a perfect vaccum and still has some air inside, also earths gravity will bring it to a stop


umm ok then what started that "tiny push" energy can't juts come out of nowhere. In order for a gravitational pull to work there needs to be two masses already there, so how would those two masses come to be


Life exists because certain conditions were met that allowed inorganic material to combine and become organic, which slowly evolved and became multi-celled organisms. there is no purpose for life, it has no meaning, it simply exists. humans have no purpose just as a plankton cell has no purpose. It merely exists because certian conditions were met. Simple.


all im saying is that that chance is like one in a billion. how could everything align so perfectly for it to create complicated thinking beings like us

your not looking at the big picture. To me it seems as if you just want to prove christians wrong. Don't come to the extended discussion unless your here to debate not to flame



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Posted 1/18/09

LemonyPanda wrote:

Ok, think back to the beginning of chemistry class where you learn your first chem law

The conservation of mass, which means matter cannot be created nor destroyed (altho einstein proves this wrong but i'll get to that in a sec)

According to this law, then there wouldn't be anything here today, scince nothing can be created nor destroyed.

Here's another law, but from physics.

Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.

So imagine, if somehow mass WAS created, it would be simply just floating around not moving at all. There would have to be someone to give a little push, to cause this enormous chain of reaction for us to be living.

Here's another famous equation E=mc squared. (E stands for energy, m stands for mass, c stands for the speed of light) This means that all mass, every single atom CAN be created, if there are enormous amounts of energy and extremely high speeds, but again, you can't have that unless you have Newton's first law of physics, NOTHING can move unless there is some kind of force.

So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? Not to mention creating life and humans who can rationalize, think, have morales for themselves, and to CREATE life as well. (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Agree with me? or think im just a procrastinator who should be working on his massive amounts of homework right now but is too lazy and decided to post his lame ass thoughts on the internet?

comment and discuss


EDIT: for those saying that God should be believed through faith yes i agree with you too. You guys aren't getting my point. The reason why i created this thread was to show that there has to be some outer force not following the rules of physics. Can it be the Christian God? I believe so but that is up for the individual to decide. All i'm proving is that there IS a god out there, not saying that it was Jesus did all this

I think ur just plain stupid since u have no clue what the frick ur talking about. You do not know anything about physics or astronomy.
Posted 1/18/09 , edited 1/18/09
God was just made up by humans who want to cling to a superior being. something that is above them and who controls their very actions because humans are weak and helpless. and they seek strength from this invisible being, thinking that He can help.
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26 / M / New York City, NY
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Posted 1/18/09

tweety_cool wrote:

well, how can we observe matter if we can't observe its property?

I've been... taking a break... my brain got burned last semester... hahahaha.


Basically we're just arguing semantics now. It's not like matter ceases to be matter when its properties vary, it may become different types.

First semester does that for you. Are you...?





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Posted 1/18/09

LemonyPanda wrote:


all im saying is that that chance is like one in a billion. how could everything align so perfectly for it to create complicated thinking beings like us

your not looking at the big picture. To me it seems as if you just want to prove christians wrong. Don't come to the extended discussion unless your here to debate not to flame



We as a being weren't created, we evolved from a more primitive being. Which evolved from a even more primitive being, but it didn't take much to create the first few cells, all that was needed was a few mere conditions to allow cells to be created.

Second, Explain how that's flaming ? Just because your views are different its flaming eh, how typical. I just stated how it is.
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Posted 1/18/09

leviathan343 wrote:


tweety_cool wrote:

well, how can we observe matter if we can't observe its property?

I've been... taking a break... my brain got burned last semester... hahahaha.


Basically we're just arguing semantics now. It's not like matter ceases to be matter when its properties vary, it may become different types.

First semester does that for you. Are you...?


not first semester, third. I am in my fourth.

well, I don't think it's semantic. Mass is one property of matter that has to be there, otherwise it will be a wave or something else.

Is wave a matter? I don't think so. I prefer to call it an abstract definition to explain some phenomena.
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Posted 1/18/09

tweety_cool wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


tweety_cool wrote:

well, how can we observe matter if we can't observe its property?

I've been... taking a break... my brain got burned last semester... hahahaha.


Basically we're just arguing semantics now. It's not like matter ceases to be matter when its properties vary, it may become different types.

First semester does that for you. Are you...?


not first semester, third. I am in my fourth.

well, I don't think it's semantic. Mass is one property of matter that has to be there, otherwise it will be a wave or something else.

Is wave a matter? I don't think so. I prefer to call it an abstract definition to explain some phenomena.


Ah, a sophomore. Hopefully I'll get there next year, if my grades keep me afloat.

It really is semantics. Matter possesses mass as a property by definition, but it isn't synonymous with matter.
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Posted 1/18/09

leviathan343 wrote:


tweety_cool wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:


tweety_cool wrote:

well, how can we observe matter if we can't observe its property?

I've been... taking a break... my brain got burned last semester... hahahaha.


Basically we're just arguing semantics now. It's not like matter ceases to be matter when its properties vary, it may become different types.

First semester does that for you. Are you...?


not first semester, third. I am in my fourth.

well, I don't think it's semantic. Mass is one property of matter that has to be there, otherwise it will be a wave or something else.

Is wave a matter? I don't think so. I prefer to call it an abstract definition to explain some phenomena.


Ah, a sophomore. Hopefully I'll get there next year, if my grades keep me afloat.

It really is semantics. Matter possesses mass as a property by definition, but it isn't synonymous with matter.


uhh,.....

matter is our definition for something that has a mass and volume. Even if it is not considered as mass, it has to be somethign observable

"In common usage, matter is anything that has both mass and volume (takes up space). A more rigorous definition is used in science: matter is what atoms and molecules are made of. Matter is commonly said to exist in four states (or phases): solid, liquid, gas and plasma; other phases, such as Bose–Einstein condensates, also exist. In everyday human environments, matter is closely related to (and in many contexts equivalent to) mass.

In the realm of relativity, matter can be equated to energy via the equation E=mc2. In the realm of cosmology, other forms of matter and energy, such as dark matter and dark energy are invoked to explain the behavior of the observable universe." in wikipedia

The only thing that I found as "it is what it is not, and it is not what it is" is something that can be considered as a subject, like being.
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Posted 1/18/09

Allhailodin wrote:


LemonyPanda wrote:


all im saying is that that chance is like one in a billion. how could everything align so perfectly for it to create complicated thinking beings like us

your not looking at the big picture. To me it seems as if you just want to prove christians wrong. Don't come to the extended discussion unless your here to debate not to flame



We as a being weren't created, we evolved from a more primitive being. Which evolved from a even more primitive being, but it didn't take much to create the first few cells, all that was needed was a few mere conditions to allow cells to be created.

Second, Explain how that's flaming ? Just because your views are different its flaming eh, how typical. I just stated how it is.


ok then give me a legitimate reason why my reasoning is wrong. the creating of life wasn't part of my reasoning i was just pointing that out that its like a one in a billion chance to actually create life that thinks and reasons like a human being
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Posted 1/18/09

hoogleman wrote:


LemonyPanda wrote:

Ok, think back to the beginning of chemistry class where you learn your first chem law

The conservation of mass, which means matter cannot be created nor destroyed (altho einstein proves this wrong but i'll get to that in a sec)

According to this law, then there wouldn't be anything here today, scince nothing can be created nor destroyed.

Here's another law, but from physics.

Newton's first law states that an object cannot move unless acted upon an outside force, and an object in motion will stay in motion unless again acted upon an outside force.

So imagine, if somehow mass WAS created, it would be simply just floating around not moving at all. There would have to be someone to give a little push, to cause this enormous chain of reaction for us to be living.

Here's another famous equation E=mc squared. (E stands for energy, m stands for mass, c stands for the speed of light) This means that all mass, every single atom CAN be created, if there are enormous amounts of energy and extremely high speeds, but again, you can't have that unless you have Newton's first law of physics, NOTHING can move unless there is some kind of force.

So who started all of this? Some kind of outside force to push first domino and create a spectacular chain of events to create this present day? Not to mention creating life and humans who can rationalize, think, have morales for themselves, and to CREATE life as well. (and btw Einstein believed there was a God but didn't believe in christianity)


Agree with me? or think im just a procrastinator who should be working on his massive amounts of homework right now but is too lazy and decided to post his lame ass thoughts on the internet?

comment and discuss


EDIT: for those saying that God should be believed through faith yes i agree with you too. You guys aren't getting my point. The reason why i created this thread was to show that there has to be some outer force not following the rules of physics. Can it be the Christian God? I believe so but that is up for the individual to decide. All i'm proving is that there IS a god out there, not saying that it was Jesus did all this

I think ur just plain stupid since u have no clue what the frick ur talking about. You do not know anything about physics or astronomy.


OMG NO WAI!11!!
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Posted 1/18/09 , edited 1/19/09

tweety_cool wrote:

uhh,.....

matter is our definition for something that has a mass and volume. Even if it is not considered as mass, it has to be somethign observable

"In common usage, matter is anything that has both mass and volume (takes up space). A more rigorous definition is used in science: matter is what atoms and molecules are made of. Matter is commonly said to exist in four states (or phases): solid, liquid, gas and plasma; other phases, such as Bose–Einstein condensates, also exist. In everyday human environments, matter is closely related to (and in many contexts equivalent to) mass.

In the realm of relativity, matter can be equated to energy via the equation E=mc2. In the realm of cosmology, other forms of matter and energy, such as dark matter and dark energy are invoked to explain the behavior of the observable universe." in wikipedia

The only thing that I found as "it is what it is not, and it is not what it is" is something that can be considered as a subject, like being.


I'm not talking about science. I'm talking about pure definitions and language. As you've shown, matter requires both mass and volume to be considered matter.

On that note, Bose-Einstein condensates are pretty damn awesome.

To certain other people: The probability argument is a dead duck. Stop using it. If you can't construct a competent argument using it as a valid premise (because it's true), then why use it?
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