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Christians, How do you know that you are saved?
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Posted 1/13/09

jewishplayer wrote:

The Bible, if taken literally does not make sense. Even the Story of Jesus is leaning towards being a rip off of Horus, a God in Egypt. The only difference is that Horus had 4 or 6 disciples instead of 12, which is easy to explain because Jews had 12 original tribes and Egypt did not.
Believing in the Bible or even Christianity only creates a false sense of security, which is of course, better than nothing as being insecure makes us very vulnerable. Bible also offers lessons that can be taken in the same way as the morals of fairy tales. They only provide set of opinions about how to live a theoretical good life. They do nothing more than that.
As for the morals in the Bible, not all of them are good. It is included there that you should do "eye for an eye,' which is not even accepted by some States in the US anymore. I am talking of course about Capital Punishment and Amendment VIII. Though you might be able to take away the life of someone, it is not the same as how the murderer killed someone else.
Some people might argue that the Bible is history. Taken literally, it cannot be. Evidences have shown that Earth is more that the age of it written in the Bible. Even the creation theory seems impossible. A man coming from dirt is unlikely. It does not have enough elements in it to even build a human body, much less the chemical reactions necessary to retain life.
If taken as a metaphor or even imagery, then it can be a form of history, such as the Book of Revelations. If taken as a metaphor for Nero's Rome, it matches pretty well. Though, I need a source for this so I will not elaborate on it.
Being saved or not is not the question. It is a matter of how you look at it. It cannot be even proven that a God exists, much less for that God to save you.

EDIT: I forgot to put dates, Horus was born around 1265 BC while Jesus' birth was around 7 BC(?). That indicates Horus is at least a millennium older than Jesus; plenty of time to copy his story and make someone as heroic as him. Horus was also born of a virgin mother by the way. And he also resurrected his dead father Osiris, which translates to El Azur in Hebrew. Which can easily convert to Lazarus (L-Azur-us) as time passes.


This post is overall irrelevant to the thread. The question posed is "What differentiates you true Christians from false ones".
You, however, took this opportunity to rip on the bible, providing no discussion topic-related whatsoever. There is a thread called "The Bible", and all discussions should be directed there.


jewishplayer wrote:
A man coming from dirt is unlikely. It does not have enough elements in it to even build a human body, much less the chemical reactions necessary to retain life.


This is also untrue. Look at a basic ecological pyramid and you will understand why. Through plants and other animals we are getting nutrients from the ground itself. Other than oxygen and water, everything you get is from the ground.



jewishplayer wrote:
It cannot be even proven that a God exists


Of course not. That's why the emphasis in Christianity is based on faith. Christians are told that they will have no proof; they must be faithful in order to be saved. In my opinion, true Christians are separated by their faith. True Christians will live their life happier knowing that they not only have one good, but will be rewarded in the afterlife.
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Posted 1/13/09


I apologize if you considered this out of topic but if you have read the very first post, that is actually relevant. It is relevant in a way that i answered this question from the first page "What made you saved?" in a manner that makes me not believe of being saved. And read the whole thing before you take something out of its context, I believe I wrote somewhere there that this is an opinionated matter and it depends on people's beliefs. I am in no way intending to attack it. I am merely making my point.

About the ecological background of why humans are made of dirt, first of all, we are not plants. Secondly, only selected soil can have enough to even contain as much calcium as the body. And soil contains a lot of elements not even inside our bodies or are needed to live. A food pyramid cannot really do much about this as that is about the nutrients, not the build up. Besides, humans do not even eat soil, nor do plants eat it. Plants absorb selected elements/compounds, gasses and sunlight to produce its food. As we eat it as a second hand energy, we consume our nutrients from the plant not the soil. It might seem an indirect way of eating soil but as I have said earlier, plants only take selected matters in the soil. Ever heard of "Law of Conservation?" This law pretty much disproves a man coming from soil. There is merely not enough energy or anything else to create a body without the introduction of an abnormal energy source. And since a God cannot be proven to exists, it is out of the question. Besides, a God would have broken that law by creating a man from soil so it would have been possible. And if you are wondering how this relates to the topic, It actually does if you read the first post.

As for the last paragraph of your article, yes, it is based out of faith, hence when I said it is subjective to people's opinions. Not the exact wordings but It is there. If not, I would have to apologize. I am pretty sure I included it there though.
And so, I am hoping that you do not take lines out of context. Even though I should apologize for my lack of proper transitions. In fact, I doubt I even added transitions there. So it is my fault for making it messy instead of building it as a coherent reply.
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Posted 1/13/09

jewishplayer wrote:



I apologize if you considered this out of topic but if you have read the very first post, that is actually relevant. It is relevant in a way that i answered this question from the first page "What made you saved?" in a manner that makes me not believe of being saved. And read the whole thing before you take something out of its context, I believe I wrote somewhere there that this is an opinionated matter and it depends on people's beliefs. I am in no way intending to attack it. I am merely making my point.

About the ecological background of why humans are made of dirt, first of all, we are not plants. Secondly, only selected soil can have enough to even contain as much calcium as the body. And soil contains a lot of elements not even inside our bodies or are needed to live. A food pyramid cannot really do much about this as that is about the nutrients, not the build up. Besides, humans do not even eat soil, nor do plants eat it. Plants absorb selected elements/compounds, gasses and sunlight to produce its food. As we eat it as a second hand energy, we consume our nutrients from the plant not the soil. It might seem an indirect way of eating soil but as I have said earlier, plants only take selected matters in the soil. Ever heard of "Law of Conservation?" This law pretty much disproves a man coming from soil. There is merely not enough energy or anything else to create a body without the introduction of an abnormal energy source. And since a God cannot be proven to exists, it is out of the question. Besides, a God would have broken that law by creating a man from soil so it would have been possible. And if you are wondering how this relates to the topic, It actually does if you read the first post.

As for the last paragraph of your article, yes, it is based out of faith, hence when I said it is subjective to people's opinions. Not the exact wordings but It is there. If not, I would have to apologize. I am pretty sure I included it there though.
And so, I am hoping that you do not take lines out of context. Even though I should apologize for my lack of proper transitions. In fact, I doubt I even added transitions there. So it is my fault for making it messy instead of building it as a coherent reply.


I respect this post and its intentions.
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Posted 1/13/09 , edited 1/13/09
A christian is one who imitates, follows and lives a life like Christ....

I havent checked the bible for so long....but i used to read a part in the new testament that said something----Jesus is the new covenant (i forgot the entire explanation)....
something like---he is GOd's means of redeeming the world.......and whoever follows him will be saved.
Coz by dying in the cross Jesus has already saved humans from sin---...the part that we have to do is follow, imitate and live like Christ to show our love n gratitude for his sacrifice....
maybe if we fail to live like him that's when we don't recognize our salvation....n hell's the nx thing!!! coz it's either we live a life with GOd or live a life w/o him..(Freewill)

Im not so particular/literal with the bible or christian ideologies....coz all of us have different interpretations...and ive met a lot of people who keeps on pushing their beliefs on me....THe only thing I do believe in for one to be saved whether he believes in GOd or not, he is a christian or not, he reads the bible or not...is that-----He keeps on striving to live a good life (loving, serving n helping humanity) no matter how much he at times he fails to do so/ sin.

i think that is what the bible is all about--Love.

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Posted 1/13/09

IrisChan7 wrote:


jewishplayer wrote:

That's actually a myth that has been debunked a long time ago http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/HORUS.htm


Let's say that the "myth" is debunked ( though, I checked your source and it is just as bias as my sources so I really do not agree [i shall research on it further to see which one is more valid]); does that really prove that Jesus did what the Bible had say he did? No. But I guess going deeper into this will make it more like a new thread so let's throw this out of the window.

As for a related topic, Christians will actually never know if they will ever be saved. They can believe but they will not know. At least not for now. It might actually also never happen. The Torah and New Testament are merely a tool to provide people a false sense of security as i have mentioned on my previous posts. They cannot be proven at this time. Though, these are high opinionated and might cause another person to tell me they are out of topic so I should not elaborate nor even think about going through them.

Back to being saved, well, like I stated earlier, they will never know. Besides, even the Book of Revelations seems like a myth itself, if taken literally. Was it a five-headed monster or something? Yeah, that will happen in the future and Jesus will be a warrior. Genetically modified snakes and [insert race here that uses Jesus as first name] for the win! Seriously though, even scholars do not think of the revelation as something that should be taken literally. Some interpreted it was Nero's time during the Roman Empire. The Roman army did fight at the place that is thought to be Armageddon by the way. ( Was it Harmagedo?) And Nero (Satan in the Book of Revelations) did die with a stab or something at that time even though some people thought he did not die which explains the resurrection of him.
But it is time for me to go to bed so I will state again that the Christians do not really know if they will be saved. They just think they will be. Without any proof. Just their opinions. Ask any Christians or even the Pope. They might just answer something that will amaze you.
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Posted 1/13/09
What makes you a Christian?
Being A Christian, is being one who follows the will of God. I think that the most important aspect is to spread the word, because that is His commandment.

What do you think someone has to do be a Christian?
He/she has to be proud of it, never be ashamed of it. Aside from that, spreading the gospel or serve the Lord.

What made you saved?
Believing in Jesus Christ as the Saviour made me saved.

You may think that God does not exist, but having a little hope will never harm you.

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Posted 1/14/09
What makes you a Christian?
I'm trying to become more like Christ

What do you think someone has to do be a Christian?
since Jesus sacrificed his life for all of us [whether sinless or not], then we too should serve our lives for Him in return.

What made you saved?
My faith in Jesus saved me. That's why, as a Christian, I want to share this faith. God will be much gladder if everyone's saved.
Posted 1/14/09

jewishplayer wrote:

Back to being saved, well, like I stated earlier, they will never know. Besides, even the Book of Revelations seems like a myth itself, if taken literally. Was it a five-headed monster or something? Yeah, that will happen in the future and Jesus will be a warrior. Genetically modified snakes and [insert race here that uses Jesus as first name] for the win! Seriously though, even scholars do not think of the revelation as something that should be taken literally. Some interpreted it was Nero's time during the Roman Empire. The Roman army did fight at the place that is thought to be Armageddon by the way. ( Was it Harmagedo?) And Nero (Satan in the Book of Revelations) did die with a stab or something at that time even though some people thought he did not die which explains the resurrection of him.
It is quite understood that it is a symbolic book. I've never heard of anyone taking it literally. The different heads represent different kingdoms. As for what you were saying about Nero, Preterism is flawed because they ignore prophecies or twist them in order to make their theories work.
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Posted 1/14/09


From what I have understood when you said symbolic book, you seem to be implying that the Bible is actually just like any fairy tale, which means that it is widely accepted as just a book that is pertaining to something using words that represents another entity. By that I meant just a book that has a lesson on it. If that is so, how will you even say you will be saved if it is just a symbolism instead of actually someone who will be able to save you? Are you implying that Jesus is a mere propaganda to make people agree to what the Pope/Higher-ups says? Are you simply saying that the Bible is no different than McCarty saying that communists are bad, therefore, they are to be eliminated, but in the Bible's case it is to be followed so that you will not be in any harm? Are you saying that by following a symbol you will be saved from death even though it is clear that you will die someday? Is it even possible to have a second life? Is it even possible to be saved by just believing? How about the people who believed that the Jihad will save them but realistically they just created a bigger mess? Is not that the same as what you are implying by symbolism?
It seems to me that believing a symbol, in this case an idol, saves you. But why are not people who idolizes superstars saved? This pretty much contradicts being saved. It might be a symbol of hope but as I have mentioned earlier, that is only giving a false sense of security. It does not really save you from anything.

So you are basically saying that the Bible is not really true so believing on it will only lead you to realizing it symbolizes something else. Which means that you being saved by Jesus is becoming further from reality as he is just a symbol unlike what the Christians believe. They are called Christians, by the way, because they believe that Jesus is their savior, who is now just a symbol for something else so he cannot be the savior anymore leading the Christianity to be a lie because their savior is not a savior anymore but just a mere symbol for someone/something else.
So if the Bible is not to be taken literally, the thought of being saved by Jesus and the basis of Christianity that Jesus is a savior is not even rational nor logical. How can you be saved by someone who is not to be taken literally? It is as if you are saying that the existence of Jesus alone is not even true but just a symbol for something else. Which leads to Christianity having no basis so they will have to be Jews again. They were Jews before believing to Jesus to begin with. (And no, I am not, in any way, a Jew, contrary to my nick.)
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Posted 1/14/09
The scripture is told in different types of passages. For instance, the scripture is written in parables (moral stories), prophecies, proverbs, psalms (poems and prayers), and descriptive and prescriptive stories. The proof of Yahuah is found in scripture evident in that the scripture itself exists, the history and facts concerning the scripture, prophecies that were fulfilled, artifacts, historical record, etc other than the proof of creation itself.

It is not a matter of opinion, but a matter of truth. Though we may choose to believe what we will, that doesn't change what is objective. Science and religion should henge on an unbiased humbled mind and heart because in essence, they are like a coin. You can't choose which side you only want because it comes together. You need both as you need a corporal body and spirit to complete yourself.

There also needs to have an understanding of what religion and science means, or else the confusion and bigotry will only continue. For it is bane to persist that life is sustainable only with having a goal, but not to set out on the path towards that goal. As having faith without work is dead, faith is evident in work. Our very innate duties lean upon a religious and scientific perspective because we hope for the future and good, and from experience we ultimately strive in order to grow.
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Posted 1/15/09

IrisChan7 wrote:

What makes you a Christian? What do you think someone has to do be a Christian? What made you saved?

Obviously not everyone who goes to church is a true Christian:

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

So what do you think the line is that separates the true from the false? What do you think the difference is?


As you quoted yourself from James, believing is not enough. By believing you should also obey. If you don't obey then you believed in vain. For satan and demons believe, but they do not obey the laws. As James also said, faith without work (obedience) is dead. If you love Yahushua, then you will show of it through obedience, that your faith is accounted righteous.

You are known by your fruit and to whom you follow (worship). For no good tree bares bad fruit, and the tree that does not bare fruit will be cut down. If you love Yahushua, you will obey him. The one who doesn't love him will not obey him as he loves the Father and obeyed. He came not to do his will but the will of the Father and the words he spoke are not his own, but Him who sent him.

The jews were rebuked by Paul because they enforced obedience to the law without faith. Now many christians are in the same chair as the jews because they believe only in faith in the law, and no obedience. To even utter obedience will cause ridicules of legalism even when you proclaim a working faith, that is, faith with obedience. To break one law is to break them all, therefore, there is no other loop hole. To follow in any other way other than the way of Yahushua is false. He is the truth, the way, and the life. No one shall go to the Father except through him.

Posted 1/15/09
Christianity is BS just as Islam is. Both are intended for teaching people how to co-exist in peace as well as teaching common knowledge based on experiences. Both have also been abused, and still are, by people to supress other people.

It's sad to see how people are clinging on to the believe that there is an almighty creator and an afterlife in heaven or hell, even though we now have a scientific way of explaining how we are here.

Posted 1/15/09

jewishplayer wrote:


I don't know how you got all of that from my saying that Revelation was symbolic. I never said that the entire Bible was. In the Bible, most prophesies were symbolic. When reading the Bible, one can tell the difference between a prophecy, a parable, and historic fact. The Bible has mixtures of all, and there is no reason to claim that all of it is one thing.


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Posted 1/15/09
Most of these types of scripture have to do with metaphysics. That is like if a prophet says "There will be world hunger in the future" it might not necessarily mean everyone is going to starve in the future but rather not everyone will feel satisfied with themselves. That is, hunger in the soul.
So to me, when you become a christian, by whatever method it may be, the overall goal in life as a christian is to reach a point in which your life is parallel in which the way Jesus would have lived your life. I mean christian means "Christ like" does it not?
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Posted 1/15/09

crunchypibb wrote:

Most of these types of scripture have to do with metaphysics. That is like if a prophet says "There will be world hunger in the future" it might not necessarily mean everyone is going to starve in the future but rather not everyone will feel satisfied with themselves. That is, hunger in the soul.
So to me, when you become a christian, by whatever method it may be, the overall goal in life as a christian is to reach a point in which your life is parallel in which the way Jesus would have lived your life. I mean christian means "Christ like" does it not?


That is pretty accurate. As Christians we want to be reflections of Jesus and live a life that honors and glorifies God.

About Revelation though, some prophecies I be to be direct, some I believe are literal and will happen. However, some are symbolic (like with some of the immagry that goes on)
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