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Teenage Sexism
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Posted 8/23/12

papagolfwhiskey wrote:
Mabye... I don't know.. not saying I'm a eunich but my ... impulses are not mainstream and the impulses you describe as predominately male seem alien and one sided to me. Sexuality is far more complex and has a broader base then just one (or even two genders)

It doesn't have to apply to everyone. If the majority population shifts in social dynamics, that will be called a global shift. Let's think about homosexuals, regardless of what shifts societies have made across countless generations -- their main desires have always been outside of mainstream society simply because they don't represent a large enough fraction of the total population. If the genetic factors in mammals produced substantially more homosexual offspring, feminism wouldn't be a primarily heterosexual topic.

As for your current state of sexuality, neurochemistry says a lot about which chemicals affect libido. If your issue isn't glandular however, like let's say it's based on psychological trauma, then there's a chance there simply is no treatment for your current state. You just are what you are. If you're describing a state of sexual confusion however, then disregard the above, identity issues and sexual orientation are case specific. I'd suggest a little couch time, psychoanalysis can do a lot to illuminate what we really want, and what we're keeping hidden from ourselves.

....also, assuming I'm way off base on the 2 directions I could have taken your comment in....

you might just be a romantic

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Posted 8/23/12

AshRandom wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:
Mabye... I don't know.. not saying I'm a eunich but my ... impulses are not mainstream and the impulses you describe as predominately male seem alien and one sided to me. Sexuality is far more complex and has a broader base then just one (or even two genders)

It doesn't have to apply to everyone. If the majority population shifts in social dynamics, that will be called a global shift. Let's think about homosexuals, regardless of what shifts societies have made across countless generations -- their main desires have always been outside of mainstream society simply because they don't represent a large enough fraction of the total population. If the genetic factors in mammals produced substantially more homosexual offspring, feminism wouldn't be a primarily heterosexual topic.

As for your current state of sexuality, neurochemistry says a lot about which chemicals affect libido. If your issue isn't glandular however, like let's say it's based on psychological trauma, then there's a chance there simply is no treatment for your current state. You just are what you are. If you're describing a state of sexual confusion however, then disregard the above, identity issues and sexual orientation are case specific. I'd suggest a little couch time, psychoanalysis can do a lot to illuminate what we really want, and what we're keeping hidden from ourselves.

....also, assuming I'm way off base on the 2 directions I could have taken your comment in....

you might just be a romantic



I'm saying sexuality is a lot more complex than just "Men need to get off all the time"

But I'm acknowledging my own romanticism and gender dysphoria may be skewing my perspective. If I were more 'conventionally male' then perhaps I would agree more easily with you. I don't know. I believe not however. or more accurately I believe that said agreement would be in error I believe that people are far more complex than this side or sub thread on sexism gives them credit for.

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Posted 8/23/12

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


AshRandom wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:
Mabye... I don't know.. not saying I'm a eunich but my ... impulses are not mainstream and the impulses you describe as predominately male seem alien and one sided to me. Sexuality is far more complex and has a broader base then just one (or even two genders)

It doesn't have to apply to everyone. If the majority population shifts in social dynamics, that will be called a global shift. Let's think about homosexuals, regardless of what shifts societies have made across countless generations -- their main desires have always been outside of mainstream society simply because they don't represent a large enough fraction of the total population. If the genetic factors in mammals produced substantially more homosexual offspring, feminism wouldn't be a primarily heterosexual topic.

As for your current state of sexuality, neurochemistry says a lot about which chemicals affect libido. If your issue isn't glandular however, like let's say it's based on psychological trauma, then there's a chance there simply is no treatment for your current state. You just are what you are. If you're describing a state of sexual confusion however, then disregard the above, identity issues and sexual orientation are case specific. I'd suggest a little couch time, psychoanalysis can do a lot to illuminate what we really want, and what we're keeping hidden from ourselves.

....also, assuming I'm way off base on the 2 directions I could have taken your comment in....

you might just be a romantic



I'm saying sexuality is a lot more complex than just "Men need to get off all the time"

But I'm acknowledging my own romanticism and gender dysphoria may be skewing my perspective. If I were more 'conventionally male' then perhaps I would agree more easily with you. I don't know. I believe not however. or more accurately I believe that said agreement would be in error I believe that people are far more complex than this side or sub thread on sexism gives them credit for.


Ahhhhh!

Well, perhaps you don't have to accept what I'm about to explain, it might just be enough for you to understand why I communicated it the way I did.

All human emotions are subconscious. All of our passions and desires are subconscious. We aren't aware of how we feel in the same way we're aware of what we know. We aren't in control of what we feel. The body itself reacts to various stimuli interpreted by the brain's amygdala hippocampus system, also known as the visual / emotional center, the primal mind, or the reptilian brain. These structures are not part of the neocortex, they aren't what your internal conscious thinking-voice is powered by. They do however have a profound impact on brain states because of their control over our glandular system.

Essentially it goes like this: something happens, then your body reacts to it. The reaction comes via your reptilian brain dumping the appropriate bucket of chemicals on you. If I hold your head in my lap and stroke the side of your face and hum a song to you.... You will go into a different brain state, not because you made a conscious decision to relax, but because you got dosed with relax-o-chemicals via interaction/stimulation.

The exact same thing happens with every single one of our emotions, and since emotions hit us first, we're always playing catchup. Oh why is my heart pounding, why am I shaking, why do I hate this guy's face so much!?!?!!! Anger hits us, before we even know it. That's why the perhaps ritualistic response of "slowly counting to ten" actually helps people from lashing out physically.

First your body tells you what it thinks, then your conscious mind tries to rationalize why you feel that way.

That's how it goes.

To rise above our chemically impulse driven mentality requires a strong foundation in reason and rationality. To rise above our deepest desires however -- is a thing talked about only in tales of yogis and gurus. As a chemist, I'll tell you what I think, I think we have no choice but to ride the chemical rollercoaster and we have to take every opportunity to review our decisions when we aren't in the midst of a neurological onslaught. And even then, we still only presume we've made decisions unaffected by emotion, when in truth the repeated pattern of chemical reinforcement throughout our lives has carved solid state neurolinquistic pathways into the very flesh of our minds. Despite having electrically driven thoughts which are purely abstract, instead we come to PHYSICALLY agree with how we feel. The brain carves canyons in the landscape of our gray matter, and the same old thoughts always want to flow through them as they come to represent a path of least resistance.

To change a reinforcing system is a bitch. The system itself actually tricks us into thinking we agree with it! It makes us think we're the ones who came up with the idea that Rossie McNally has the most beautiful legs in the whole world and her face is made out of love and flowers and things that taste sweet..... these aren't our thoughts dude, they're implanted.... So if you're having trouble coming to grips with what your impulses are demanding, don't worry, we all are.
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Posted 8/23/12
The difference between the sexes is what makes life a lot more interesting. I'm sick of stuck up people who are offended at everything - we can use a little more 'sexism' in a very positive sense!
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Posted 8/23/12

AshRandom wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


AshRandom wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:
Mabye... I don't know.. not saying I'm a eunich but my ... impulses are not mainstream and the impulses you describe as predominately male seem alien and one sided to me. Sexuality is far more complex and has a broader base then just one (or even two genders)

It doesn't have to apply to everyone. If the majority population shifts in social dynamics, that will be called a global shift. Let's think about homosexuals, regardless of what shifts societies have made across countless generations -- their main desires have always been outside of mainstream society simply because they don't represent a large enough fraction of the total population. If the genetic factors in mammals produced substantially more homosexual offspring, feminism wouldn't be a primarily heterosexual topic.

As for your current state of sexuality, neurochemistry says a lot about which chemicals affect libido. If your issue isn't glandular however, like let's say it's based on psychological trauma, then there's a chance there simply is no treatment for your current state. You just are what you are. If you're describing a state of sexual confusion however, then disregard the above, identity issues and sexual orientation are case specific. I'd suggest a little couch time, psychoanalysis can do a lot to illuminate what we really want, and what we're keeping hidden from ourselves.

....also, assuming I'm way off base on the 2 directions I could have taken your comment in....

you might just be a romantic



I'm saying sexuality is a lot more complex than just "Men need to get off all the time"

But I'm acknowledging my own romanticism and gender dysphoria may be skewing my perspective. If I were more 'conventionally male' then perhaps I would agree more easily with you. I don't know. I believe not however. or more accurately I believe that said agreement would be in error I believe that people are far more complex than this side or sub thread on sexism gives them credit for.


Ahhhhh!

Well, perhaps you don't have to accept what I'm about to explain, it might just be enough for you to understand why I communicated it the way I did.

All human emotions are subconscious. All of our passions and desires are subconscious. We aren't aware of how we feel in the same way we're aware of what we know. We aren't in control of what we feel. The body itself reacts to various stimuli interpreted by the brain's amygdala hippocampus system, also known as the visual / emotional center, the primal mind, or the reptilian brain. These structures are not part of the neocortex, they aren't what your internal conscious thinking-voice is powered by. They do however have a profound impact on brain states because of their control over our glandular system.

Essentially it goes like this: something happens, then your body reacts to it. The reaction comes via your reptilian brain dumping the appropriate bucket of chemicals on you. If I hold your head in my lap and stroke the side of your face and hum a song to you.... You will go into a different brain state, not because you made a conscious decision to relax, but because you got dosed with relax-o-chemicals via interaction/stimulation.

The exact same thing happens with every single one of our emotions, and since emotions hit us first, we're always playing catchup. Oh why is my heart pounding, why am I shaking, why do I hate this guy's face so much!?!?!!! Anger hits us, before we even know it. That's why the perhaps ritualistic response of "slowly counting to ten" actually helps people from lashing out physically.

First your body tells you what it thinks, then your conscious mind tries to rationalize why you feel that way.

That's how it goes.

To rise above our chemically impulse driven mentality requires a strong foundation in reason and rationality. To rise above our deepest desires however -- is a thing talked about only in tales of yogis and gurus. As a chemist, I'll tell you what I think, I think we have no choice but to ride the chemical rollercoaster and we have to take every opportunity to review our decisions when we aren't in the midst of a neurological onslaught. And even then, we still only presume we've made decisions unaffected by emotion, when in truth the repeated pattern of chemical reinforcement throughout our lives has carved solid state neurolinquistic pathways into the very flesh of our minds. Despite having electrically driven thoughts which are purely abstract, instead we come to PHYSICALLY agree with how we feel. The brain carves canyons in the landscape of our gray matter, and the same old thoughts always want to flow through them as they come to represent a path of least resistance.

To change a reinforcing system is a bitch. The system itself actually tricks us into thinking we agree with it! It makes us think we're the ones who came up with the idea that Rossie McNally has the most beautiful legs in the whole world and her face is made out of love and flowers and things that taste sweet..... these aren't our thoughts dude, they're implanted.... So if you're having trouble coming to grips with what your impulses are demanding, don't worry, we all are.


I actually think I'm pretty aware of my impulses and accepting of them. Not something could have said for most of my life but that's another unrelated story. I use Neurolinguistic Programing (well,,, positive self talk, and a slow reduction of negative self talk) and relaxation techniques (usually positional/postural relaxation which is quick and easy to achieve and less obvious than counting to ten or going to one's happy place) all the time while working to modify my own behaviour. Quite a lot so I get what you're saying. I'm just saying that gender issues will not be solved by sudden (or gradual) proliferation of jack-off droids.

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Posted 8/23/12

AshRandom wrote:


crazyfirefly wrote:
A world like that could never exist because whatever drives our desire for intellectual stimulation is no match for what drives our desire for sexual stimulation. I've had guy friends and I've had girl friends and I can assure you that despite the fact that we were platonic as saints there has always been an element of physical attraction and sexual tension from at least one if not both parties in the friendship, regardless of gender. Sure physical attraction will mater less as we grow older and our reproductive parts shirvil and die but until then the need to sweep the masses and procreate like rabbits will ravage your subconscious and relationships will be based on attraction. Sex whether it's having sex, masturbating, or just thinking about sex will take up some portion of your time everyday and there will be some level of attraction in all your friendships even if you aren't aware of it.


Considering the response, I can't help but assume you missed the "robot-wife-future" presentation part of the argument. Flip back a page. As for all of your sexual deductions, there's nothing contemporary psychology would disagree with. Those are our primary motivations. That's why I targeted them.

Anything to detract, satisfy, or assuage the male mind would push us toward heterosexual relationships which aren't wholly lust-centered. An analogous effect, not unlike going grocery shopping on an empty stomach, keeps men from judging women on any basis outside of the physical. Having a harem of morally acceptable, always willing, highly visually pleasing partners would create a counterbalance. Like eating dinner before going grocery shopping, a full stomach keeps you from grabbing at every starchy item in sight out of desperation. Unless someone wipes Japan off the map, Fembots are going to be part of our future, and in the deep future they'll be physically indistinguishable. I started my hypothesis at that stage.


My response was more towards the OP you responded to. The whole platonic relationship bit, I just couldn't find the OP so I requoted your quote. I honestly could care less about tossing around hypothetical "robot wife" theories. Because all Fembots would be is a teched out masturbatory aid. I don't care how much it feels like the real thing it simply wont be. Lustful relationships will always be a part of human existence, even if, in the distant future humanity manages to have harems of mechanical vagina with all the bells and whistles.
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Posted 8/23/12

crazyfirefly wrote:
Lustful relationships will always be a part of human existence, even if, in the distant future humanity manages to have harems of mechanical vagina with all the bells and whistles.

I agree. As subconscious paradigms they will remain part of us indefinitely, forever shaping how we judge people.

That does not mean however that sexbots won't have the exact same predicted outcome as I suggested. Women are severely overestimating themselves if they imagine themselves to be truly necessary to promote male happiness. That clearly isn't the case now, and in the future where men will have a fantastic alternative, it definitely won't be. I'm not interested in denigrating women in any way, shape, or form, but when given the choice between an unpredictable partner vs a helpful, stress reducing, extremely attractive and compliant partner, what are guys going to do?

I'm thinking they'll marry the robot, and maybe date real women on the side. As for why this would change the level of shallowness seen in males when selecting mates -- if a man has a bunch of stupid, hot girlfriends -- having one interesting, funny, or intellectually stimulating (but ugly) flesh&blood girlfriend on the side, loved perhaps purely for her mind, might actually become possible in situations where it is impossible today.

I think we all forget about male stigmas and how they create a feedback loop which reinforces sexism and the objectification of women. Men insult other men based on the beauty, or lack of beauty, in their wives and girlfriends. In potential future circumstances, that kind of peer pressure wouldn't to carry the same embarrassing stigma it does today.

Now you can react to that with horror, or you can imagine a world where ugly women aren't treated like worthless garbage for no reason other than appearance. If nothing else, and despite its failings, it would be a world far closer to something representing social equality.
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Posted 8/23/12

papagolfwhiskey wrote:
I'm just saying that gender issues will not be solved by sudden (or gradual) proliferation of jack-off droids.


Well that's undeniably true. They won't be solved.

I'm not a totalitarian about it though, I'm fine with relative levels of improvement, no matter how slight. xD
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Posted 8/23/12

AshRandom wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:
I'm just saying that gender issues will not be solved by sudden (or gradual) proliferation of jack-off droids.


Well that's undeniably true. They won't be solved.

I'm not a totalitarian about it though, I'm fine with relative levels of improvement, no matter how slight. xD


Give the droids boobs and I will be satisfied.
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Posted 8/23/12

Somewhat_Insane_Monkey wrote:


AshRandom wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:
I'm just saying that gender issues will not be solved by sudden (or gradual) proliferation of jack-off droids.


Well that's undeniably true. They won't be solved.

I'm not a totalitarian about it though, I'm fine with relative levels of improvement, no matter how slight. xD


Give the droids boobs and I will be satisfied. :)


I can only imagine some will be perfect representations of famous actresses. Why not? They could even get up on holo-TV to endorse them. Imagine it, they sell their own model to us themselves. We buy the most ridiculous nonsense off late night infomercials, advertise that at 2am and see what happens. Whole world will change overnight.
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Posted 8/23/12 , edited 8/23/12

AshRandom wrote:


Somewhat_Insane_Monkey wrote:


AshRandom wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:
I'm just saying that gender issues will not be solved by sudden (or gradual) proliferation of jack-off droids.


Well that's undeniably true. They won't be solved.

I'm not a totalitarian about it though, I'm fine with relative levels of improvement, no matter how slight. xD


Give the droids boobs and I will be satisfied. :)


I can only imagine some will be perfect representations of famous actresses. Why not? They could even get up on holo-TV to endorse them. Imagine it, they sell their own model to us themselves. We buy the most ridiculous nonsense off late night infomercials, advertise that at 2am and see what happens. Whole world will change overnight.


I dont know about you but I am going to call dibs on the Selena Gomez droid, wink wink ;)
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Posted 8/23/12
This thread is getting kinkier and kinkier.
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Posted 8/23/12

Somewhat_Insane_Monkey wrote:


AshRandom wrote:


Somewhat_Insane_Monkey wrote:


AshRandom wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:
I'm just saying that gender issues will not be solved by sudden (or gradual) proliferation of jack-off droids.


Well that's undeniably true. They won't be solved.

I'm not a totalitarian about it though, I'm fine with relative levels of improvement, no matter how slight. xD


Give the droids boobs and I will be satisfied. :)


I can only imagine some will be perfect representations of famous actresses. Why not? They could even get up on holo-TV to endorse them. Imagine it, they sell their own model to us themselves. We buy the most ridiculous nonsense off late night infomercials, advertise that at 2am and see what happens. Whole world will change overnight.


I dont know about you but I am going to call dibs on the Selena Gomez droid, wink wink ;)


First person to request an Hatsune Miku loses.

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Posted 8/23/12

Winterfells wrote:

This thread is getting kinkier and kinkier.


yeah unfortunately on the topic relevance scale I think we're fast approaching "I like pie".

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Posted 8/23/12

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Winterfells wrote:

This thread is getting kinkier and kinkier.


yeah unfortunately on the topic relevance scale I think we're fast approaching "I like pie".



How dare you take that opportunity from me.
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