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Anime that Appeals to Lolicons
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Posted 1/21/09

TheAncientOne wrote:


mrsentimental wrote:
The caption under this kodomo no jikan picture is incorrect. That anime does not correctly portray the REAL WORLD. In the REAL WORLD, grammar school kids do not talk about fellatio, ask their teacher to have sex with them, or hold up signs saying " I hope you ejaculate inside me". Not unless they've been sexually abused, or been exposed to porn or some other kind of sexual show/movie... ... like kodomo no jikan. And this is the danger of this child porn anime. And in REAL LIFE, at least in the USA, if a grammar school kid was talking/acting in such sexual ways, child protective services would be called in to find out who the pedophile was or who was exposing the kids to sexual material.


I had a similar thought (i.e., if this had been real, the teacher would have been remiss for not reporting her as a possible victim of sexual abuse).

That said, you might be surprised how young kids pick can pick up inappropriate language and behavior from other kids.


DomFortress:

I suspect you've never actually seen KnJ, or certainly not the entire series. Unless there was something in the censored parts in later episodes (the early ones I saw were uncensored), there is no explicit material in it. I have yet to see any reasonable person consider anything as pornographic that lacked both explicit nudity and sexual acts. I don't even recall that series having an age restriction here (unlike Steel Angel Kurumi, for example), so apparently CR considered it PG-13.


Edited to correct problem with unclosed quote tag


Yeouch! The sexual content in this show was real clear, even with pedobear! If CR did have this available to everyone, they screwed up! This stuff is soft core child porn. They try to have some kind of dramatic story with abandonment issues and all, but the rave here is about the grammar school kids acting/talking in sexual ways. It's like saying "Oh yah. I read Playboy for those interesting articles". BullShit! This is soft core child porn, regardles of any kind of storyline they tried to throw at us.

Kids do pick up thngs from other kids... ...who have been exposed to crap like this show, or porn, or even some of the "soaps" now-adays (I heard a grammar school kid talk about seeing two people "humping" on one of his mom's soaps. Mom makes sure the kids ain't around now when she's watching those soaps). This is bad stuff for kids to see.

Check with parents you know. See if they would want their kids to see this kind of stuff.
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Mr_Irritable wrote:

Are the situations of what appears to be subtle fanservice for lolicons intentional? You see, anime isn't natural. Someone has to design it and draw it. The characters obviously aren't real people, and it's up to the artists to decide what they make their characters wear, or how they make them act. I believe it just might be, but in other situations, it's possible a younger character may have been accidentally designed to appeal to such an audience.

I'm curious. What do the rest of you think about it? What do you think of the people who enjoy it? What about the people who make it and sell it? There's obviously money to be made in it, so it isn't as uncommon as many people would like to think.


1). I'm sure they do it on purpose, It's hard to believe that only the viewers see it that way and not the creators who spend the time drawing the thing.

2). I don't care about the people who enjoy it/watch it.....
Technically most anime have some type of loli in them...You see these harems where the young girl likes the guys too, and the show may or may not have fan service....Doesn't loli mean underage? So if the girl is below 18, than that rules that 50% manga has it XD

3).People that make it want money...And it's not uncommon...

4).Summary...It's just a DRAWING....For example I can say that this is Sally, and she is a young girl....

(Yes it's a stick figure) and is she wearing clothes? No...than this image is loli...
-the end.....
The amount of detail does not matter, she has no clothes so there.....
-------------------------
So in the end it's just a "I'm right and you are not battle" Even though it's a picture out of someone's imagination, and no way a "CHILD" then why do people even waste time? Deal with the real Pedophiles...not just drawings -_-....

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Posted 1/21/09 , edited 1/21/09
Well, there's a difference between real life and anime. It's like saying "Yo, I get turned on by tentacle hentai" Does not mean that you will kidnap a girl and throw a squid in there.

Same as in this case, just because anime lolis may turn you on does not mean that it will have the same effect on a real life child.
That's my opinion anyhow.
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Posted 1/21/09

mrsentimental wrote:


refinder wrote:


mrsentimental wrote:



The caption under this kodomo no jikan picture is incorrect. That anime does not correctly portray the REAL WORLD. In the REAL WORLD, grammar school kids do not talk about fellatio, ask their teacher to have sex with them, or hold up signs saying " I hope you ejaculate inside me". Not unless they've been sexually abused, or been exposed to porn or some other kind of sexual show/movie... ... like kodomo no jikan. And this is the danger of this child porn anime. And in REAL LIFE, at least in the USA, if a grammar school kid was talking/acting in such sexual ways, child protective services would be called in to find out who the pedophile was or who was exposing the kids to sexual material.



*yawns*

Well since I'm the one who originally made that mot I guess I'm the one who has to play with you now.

I never said it correctly portrayed the REAL WORLD, I merely implied that it presented the consequences and reactions that one would expect others to perform and have if they ever bore witness to situation like that. It being an anime allows it to take and distort aspects of reality and if you would have read the series then you would have known that child services were called in at one point. Rin being perverted is actually normal for her age (albeit exaggerated) since I've had to take care of small children for a while now I know they learn things from one another at school that adults would view as inappropriate for their age.

Believe it or not there are children out there with more sexual knowledge than some adults these days.


Well that's important work, your helping out with the small children. If you're doing this on a regular basis, you've got to know your stuff. Little kids can have some sexual sensations in their bodies, but puberty is when the interest and stronger sexual urges typically get going. If the grammar school kids are talking /acting in sexual ways, they've learned it from someone else. If they get stuff from other kids, it's because those other kids learned it from seomeone else. Pedophiles want to believe (and want to convince us) that kids want to have sex with them. That's the pedophile way. Kids need to play, and learn academics, and eat the right stuff to grow healthy, and be kept safe by us adults/ parent types. They don't need sex. They aren't anywhere close to beng able to take care of any child they make themselves by having sex.

Hopefully the kids you're watching don't get exposed to this sex stuff. You might tell the adults/parents you know about being a fan of kodomo no jikan and see what they think, but I don't expect you'll get a favorable response.

So, one adult to another, how do you handle it if one of your kids were to start acting/talking in sexual ways?


To clarify this a bit though, I've been taking care of young children since I was a young child myself. I've got 5 younger sisters, the youngest of which being 7 and I've had to take care of them even more so than my parents on many occasions.

It's in a child's nature to be curious, so it's only natural for them to question anything and everything (as you may very well know), but the first time I was asked about by one of them about something sexually related I was unable to give an answer, so that's what lead me becoming knowledgeable about sexual matters before I should of for the sake of answering their questions. Later on when asked the same question by one of them when I was old enough to actually know what it meant I never "sugar coated" it, I just told them the facts straight up to avoid any misunderstandings or trust issues that would arise later (lying to children about where babies come from is one of the worst things you can do when it comes to having good trust with them, at least in my experience), but I also made it clear that they should not bother worrying about any of it till they were older (this worked out only because I was almost always keeping an eye on them, otherwise it could have developed differently to say the least).

I make it a point not to tell them things I don't think they can handle yet and if that’s not an option I say it like it is in terms they can understand and know that it's not acceptable for them to be doing those kinds of things until they are older.

One of the main reasons (aside from being a fan of all genres of anime in general) I've seen/read Kodomo no Jikan was because stuff like that happens and I find it useful to be able to view any sort of situation from multiple view points.

and everyone knows that’s I've read it, they read it before I read it.

this is liberty that anime can take, a child is always considered to young to know what they want, but I could argue this from about 4 differnt points of views
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The Wise Wizard
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Posted 1/21/09

DomFortress wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:
DomFortress:

I suspect you've never actually seen KnJ, or certainly not the entire series. Unless there was something in the censored parts in later episodes (the early ones I saw were uncensored), there is no explicit material in it. I have yet to see any reasonable person consider anything as pornographic that lacked both explicit nudity and sexual acts. I don't even recall that series having an age restriction here (unlike Steel Angel Kurumi, for example), so apparently CR considered it PG-13.

However, the the domestic anime DVD version of KnJ is filled with sexual depictions showing children with offensive, humanly degrading, and corrupting effect like this:

FYI, that scene was in the version of KnJ I saw on CR. As I noted, the early ones were uncensored, and this was in one of the first episodes (the first or second, as I recall).

As you failed to address it, I'll ask point blank: Have you seen the entire series, or not?

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Posted 1/21/09

mrsentimental wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:

I had a similar thought (i.e., if this had been real, the teacher would have been remiss for not reporting her as a possible victim of sexual abuse).

That said, you might be surprised how young kids pick can pick up inappropriate language and behavior from other kids.


DomFortress:

I suspect you've never actually seen KnJ, or certainly not the entire series. Unless there was something in the censored parts in later episodes (the early ones I saw were uncensored), there is no explicit material in it. I have yet to see any reasonable person consider anything as pornographic that lacked both explicit nudity and sexual acts. I don't even recall that series having an age restriction here (unlike Steel Angel Kurumi, for example), so apparently CR considered it PG-13.


Edited to correct problem with unclosed quote tag


Yeouch! The sexual content in this show was real clear, even with pedobear! If CR did have this available to everyone, they screwed up! This stuff is soft core child porn. They try to have some kind of dramatic story with abandonment issues and all, but the rave here is about the grammar school kids acting/talking in sexual ways. It's like saying "Oh yah. I read Playboy for those interesting articles". BullShit! This is soft core child porn, regardles of any kind of storyline they tried to throw at us.

Kids do pick up thngs from other kids... ...who have been exposed to crap like this show, or porn, or even some of the "soaps" now-adays (I heard a grammar school kid talk about seeing two people "humping" on one of his mom's soaps. Mom makes sure the kids ain't around now when she's watching those soaps). This is bad stuff for kids to see.

Check with parents you know. See if they would want their kids to see this kind of stuff.

Don't forget what the "PG" in PG-13 stands for. It doesn't simply mean it isn't for kids under 13. It means it isn't for kids under 13, but parental guidance is recommended for those over 13.

Having seen my share of both soft (and hard) core (adult) porn in my younger days, I can state with some authority that any assertion this is "soft core child porn" is off base. It is suggestive, certainly, but it falls far short of the mark as soft core porn.

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Posted 1/21/09

refinder wrote:

To clarify this a bit though, I've been taking care of young children since I was a young child myself. I've got 5 younger sisters, the youngest of which being 7 and I've had to take care of them even more so than my parents on many occasions.

It's in a child's nature to be curious, so it's only natural for them to question anything and everything (as you may very well know), but the first time I was asked about by one of them about something sexually related I was unable to give an answer, so that's what lead me becoming knowledgeable about sexual matters before I should of for the sake of answering their questions. Later on when asked the same question by one of them when I was old enough to actually know what it meant I never "sugar coated" it, I just told them the facts straight up to avoid any misunderstandings or trust issues that would arise later (lying to children about where babies come from is one of the worst things you can do when it comes to having good trust with them, at least in my experience), but I also made it clear that they should not bother worrying about any of it till they were older (this worked out only because I was almost always keeping an eye on them, otherwise it could have developed differently to say the least).

I make it a point not to tell them things I don't think they can handle yet and if that’s not an option I say it like it is in terms they can understand and know that it's not acceptable for them to be doing those kinds of things until they are older.

One of the main reasons (aside from being a fan of all genres of anime in general) I've seen/read Kodomo no Jikan was because stuff like that happens and I find it useful to be able to view any sort of situation from multiple view points.

and everyone knows that’s I've read it, they read it before I read it.

this is liberty that anime can take, a child is always considered to young to know what they want, but I could argue this from about 4 differnt points of views


I'd say it's a good call letting your younger sisters know "No rush with this sex stuff. When you get older you'll have to know about this stuff.", and other things like paying on your mortgage, or getting the oil changed on your car, or attending town meetings about expanding the school budget, etc. etc. And unless you've found "the manual" on kids, it's usual that we're not sure what to do at first about the sex stuff. Same with me and my kids. So we learn. And I've learned this child porn stuff is real bad for kids, as well as making us Anime enthusiasts look like pedophiles because this is somehow supposed to be accepted in the Anime genre. If you're serious about taking care of and protecting the little kids, there are not many ways to look at the child porn stuff: It's just real bad for the kids.

But are your sisters actually acting like the grammar school kids in kodomo no jikan? Is this where you're seeing this in the REAL WORLD? Because in the REAL WORLD little kids acting/talking in sexual ways does not happen except if the little kids have been abused or exposed to shows like... ...kodomo no jikan. Or it happens all the time in the minds of the pedophiles who want to think of kids as being into this sex stuff.

So best of luck being a good protective big brother/big sister for you younger sibs. Also, when they get older, you know they will understand about this child porn stuff and either very much appreciate that you were protective or know you made a mistake by somehow saying the child porn stuff is OK. What will your sisters think about this child porn stuff when they are adults?
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Posted 1/21/09

TheAncientOne wrote:


mrsentimental wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:

I had a similar thought (i.e., if this had been real, the teacher would have been remiss for not reporting her as a possible victim of sexual abuse).

That said, you might be surprised how young kids pick can pick up inappropriate language and behavior from other kids.


DomFortress:

I suspect you've never actually seen KnJ, or certainly not the entire series. Unless there was something in the censored parts in later episodes (the early ones I saw were uncensored), there is no explicit material in it. I have yet to see any reasonable person consider anything as pornographic that lacked both explicit nudity and sexual acts. I don't even recall that series having an age restriction here (unlike Steel Angel Kurumi, for example), so apparently CR considered it PG-13.


Edited to correct problem with unclosed quote tag


Yeouch! The sexual content in this show was real clear, even with pedobear! If CR did have this available to everyone, they screwed up! This stuff is soft core child porn. They try to have some kind of dramatic story with abandonment issues and all, but the rave here is about the grammar school kids acting/talking in sexual ways. It's like saying "Oh yah. I read Playboy for those interesting articles". BullShit! This is soft core child porn, regardles of any kind of storyline they tried to throw at us.

Kids do pick up thngs from other kids... ...who have been exposed to crap like this show, or porn, or even some of the "soaps" now-adays (I heard a grammar school kid talk about seeing two people "humping" on one of his mom's soaps. Mom makes sure the kids ain't around now when she's watching those soaps). This is bad stuff for kids to see.

Check with parents you know. See if they would want their kids to see this kind of stuff.

Don't forget what the "PG" in PG-13 stands for. It doesn't simply mean it isn't for kids under 13. It means it isn't for kids under 13, but parental guidance is recommended for those over 13.

Having seen my share of both soft (and hard) core (adult) porn in my younger days, I can state with some authority that any assertion this is "soft core child porn" is off base. It is suggestive, certainly, but it falls far short of the mark as soft core porn.



Well, I surely can't say I'm any kind of porn expert, but this show is obviously child porn. The big draw here is grammar school kids acting/talking in sexual ways, whether they are showing the little kids' private areas or not. This alone makes this series real bad. And you're trying to make it somehow seem OK by minimizing the child porn nature with some kind of "PG-13" rating. Typical pedophile fashion.

So, have you checked with any parents yet about about how acceptable this stuff is? Do you actually... ... like... ... looking at little kids acting/talking in sexual ways? Or watching this kind of child porn stuff? Or are you into the child porn with the "explicit nudity and sexual acts"? Again, pretty obvious pedophile stuff.
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mrsentimental wrote:


I'd say it's a good call letting your younger sisters know "No rush with this sex stuff. When you get older you'll have to know about this stuff.", and other things like paying on your mortgage, or getting the oil changed on your car, or attending town meetings about expanding the school budget, etc. etc. And unless you've found "the manual" on kids, it's usual that we're not sure what to do at first about the sex stuff. Same with me and my kids. So we learn. And I've learned this child porn stuff is real bad for kids, as well as making us Anime enthusiasts look like pedophiles because this is somehow supposed to be accepted in the Anime genre. If you're serious about taking care of and protecting the little kids, there are not many ways to look at the child porn stuff: It's just real bad for the kids.

But are your sisters actually acting like the grammar school kids in kodomo no jikan? Is this where you're seeing this in the REAL WORLD? Because in the REAL WORLD little kids acting/talking in sexual ways does not happen except if the little kids have been abused or exposed to shows like... ...kodomo no jikan. Or it happens all the time in the minds of the pedophiles who want to think of kids as being into this sex stuff.

So best of luck being a good protective big brother/big sister for you younger sibs. Also, when they get older, you know they will understand about this child porn stuff and either very much appreciate that you were protective or know you made a mistake by somehow saying the child porn stuff is OK. What will your sisters think about this child porn stuff when they are adults?


I think you tend to misunderstand a few things though. The difference between lolicon anime and child porn is that there are no REAL children in the anime. I'm against child porn, but to me anime is just fiction, it's no worse than anything I'd see on American TV shows like CSI or Law & Order that also have have cases dealing with similar content.

As for this point, it varies, for two of my younger sisters I'd say they became fairly perverted on their own, but not to the point where they would try to come on to any one while they were still little.

You can blame the internet for this, but I mostly blame TV and what the typical role models are in America. Truth be told many little kids do know about sexual things these days whether you want them to or not thanks to this being the "information age" (gotta use those parental controls people.. but we didn't have them years ago!). For the record Rin in Kodomo no Jikan was never abused, she just suffered trauma from the loss of her mother and several lying adults (if you read the series you'd know she is nowhere near as knowledgeable about sex as she comes off as, she just knows how to manipulate people).

The two that are oldest (16) have seen loli series on their own (non hentai ones) and actually enjoyed Kodomo no Jikan.
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Lucky Star, although I don't know if that counts since they're 15-17. :l
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i can only think of kodomo no jikan
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 1/21/09

mrsentimental wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:


mrsentimental wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:

I had a similar thought (i.e., if this had been real, the teacher would have been remiss for not reporting her as a possible victim of sexual abuse).

That said, you might be surprised how young kids pick can pick up inappropriate language and behavior from other kids.


DomFortress:

I suspect you've never actually seen KnJ, or certainly not the entire series. Unless there was something in the censored parts in later episodes (the early ones I saw were uncensored), there is no explicit material in it. I have yet to see any reasonable person consider anything as pornographic that lacked both explicit nudity and sexual acts. I don't even recall that series having an age restriction here (unlike Steel Angel Kurumi, for example), so apparently CR considered it PG-13.


Edited to correct problem with unclosed quote tag


Yeouch! The sexual content in this show was real clear, even with pedobear! If CR did have this available to everyone, they screwed up! This stuff is soft core child porn. They try to have some kind of dramatic story with abandonment issues and all, but the rave here is about the grammar school kids acting/talking in sexual ways. It's like saying "Oh yah. I read Playboy for those interesting articles". BullShit! This is soft core child porn, regardles of any kind of storyline they tried to throw at us.

Kids do pick up thngs from other kids... ...who have been exposed to crap like this show, or porn, or even some of the "soaps" now-adays (I heard a grammar school kid talk about seeing two people "humping" on one of his mom's soaps. Mom makes sure the kids ain't around now when she's watching those soaps). This is bad stuff for kids to see.

Check with parents you know. See if they would want their kids to see this kind of stuff.

Don't forget what the "PG" in PG-13 stands for. It doesn't simply mean it isn't for kids under 13. It means it isn't for kids under 13, but parental guidance is recommended for those over 13.

Having seen my share of both soft (and hard) core (adult) porn in my younger days, I can state with some authority that any assertion this is "soft core child porn" is off base. It is suggestive, certainly, but it falls far short of the mark as soft core porn.



Well, I surely can't say I'm any kind of porn expert, but this show is obviously child porn. The big draw here is grammar school kids acting/talking in sexual ways, whether they are showing the little kids' private areas or not. This alone makes this series real bad. And you're trying to make it somehow seem OK by minimizing the child porn nature with some kind of "PG-13" rating. Typical pedophile fashion.

So, have you checked with any parents yet about about how acceptable this stuff is? Do you actually... ... like... ... looking at little kids acting/talking in sexual ways? Or watching this kind of child porn stuff? Or are you into the child porn with the "explicit nudity and sexual acts"? Again, pretty obvious pedophile stuff.


It seems obvious at this point you don't have (or perhaps simply don't care to have) a clue what pornography is. Frankly, you calling this "child porn" is shameful; in the same way that calling someone that gropes a women a rapist; not because it either is acceptable, but because you are demeaning the impact of the latter.

PG-13 isn't minimizing the impact, it is bringing home what it really means. That it is something parents should be reviewing. Frankly, if I had kids in the lower teens, the PC they use would likely be in the living room or other public area, not their bedroom.

As usual, the first tactic when one runs out of logic in such an argument is to start throwing out pedophile accusations. Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree on that one. I can swear on a stack of bibles as high as the moon that I have never in my adult life ever had any sexual or "inappropriate" contact with anyone that was not also an adult. Can you do the same? (If you care to answer, keep in mind that if you copped a feel from your 17 year old girlfriend when you were 18, you can't).
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moonevilrini wrote:


Mr_Irritable wrote:

Are the situations of what appears to be subtle fanservice for lolicons intentional? You see, anime isn't natural. Someone has to design it and draw it. The characters obviously aren't real people, and it's up to the artists to decide what they make their characters wear, or how they make them act. I believe it just might be, but in other situations, it's possible a younger character may have been accidentally designed to appeal to such an audience.

I'm curious. What do the rest of you think about it? What do you think of the people who enjoy it? What about the people who make it and sell it? There's obviously money to be made in it, so it isn't as uncommon as many people would like to think.


1). I'm sure they do it on purpose, It's hard to believe that only the viewers see it that way and not the creators who spend the time drawing the thing.

2). I don't care about the people who enjoy it/watch it.....
Technically most anime have some type of loli in them...You see these harems where the young girl likes the guys too, and the show may or may not have fan service....Doesn't loli mean underage? So if the girl is below 18, than that rules that 50% manga has it XD

3).People that make it want money...And it's not uncommon...

4).Summary...It's just a DRAWING....For example I can say that this is Sally, and she is a young girl....

(Yes it's a stick figure) and is she wearing clothes? No...than this image is loli...
-the end.....
The amount of detail does not matter, she has no clothes so there.....
-------------------------
So in the end it's just a "I'm right and you are not battle" Even though it's a picture out of someone's imagination, and no way a "CHILD" then why do people even waste time? Deal with the real Pedophiles...not just drawings -_-....



Yay for Moonevilrini. Perfect Explanation for the difference between anime and RL
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