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Muslims and Jews
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Posted 1/15/09 , edited 1/15/09
Religious propaganda concerning the conflict in Gaza have been released on large scale. They’re circulating throughout the Middle East. Osama Bin Laden released an audiotape urging Muslims around the world to unite in a genocidal holy war against the Jews. According to Osama it is their jihadic obligation. However, much of the ummah (Islamic population,) remains unconvinced by his zealous speech.

Muslims have begun speaking out against such an approach. In large part they seem to be pressing for the same resolution as the UN-a cease fire. Imams (Islamic preachers,) across Afghanistan have urged Muslims not to follow the commands of Osama Bin Laden. According to them all attacks must stop.

Habibullah Hesam, an imam of the Kabul Provincial council responded to Osama’s tape by saying, “Jihad is an obligation from God. All Muslims support this obligation as an order from God, not from individuals.”

Kabul citizens have condemned Israel’s attacks as cowardly, uncalled for, unacceptable, and unjustifiable. However, they make no effort to lynch Jews. Ironically, while Jewish denizens of Kabul seem able to go about their daily life, this isn’t true in all western nations.

Footage of a Jewish mother in the UK being mobbed by anti-Israeli protestors has been leaked. These protestors smashed through Jewish-owned stores and attempted to storm the Israeli embassy in the UK. Meanwhile in France Jews are afraid to attend worshiping ceremonies. Synagogues are being vandalized and attacked. Many of the assailants are supposed Muslims representing Islam, while others are merely anti-Jewish protestors.

Despite some rage amongst French Muslims Islamic institutions largely appose the vandalism. Imams have urged Muslims not to continue such attacks. A chain of Muslims schools has bound together in an attempt to teach elementary school children the valuable lesson of tolerance.

They’ve begun educating young Muslim boys and girls about the conflict, telling them that it is a conflict between Hamas and Israel but not Muslims and Jews. One teacher said, “We tell the children that people who do acts of graffiti or throw Molotov cocktails at synagogues are not doing this for Islam and do not represent Muslims and they pick it up fast.”

Does this trend suggest that peace between Muslims and Jews can be attained? Or will the religious bias lead Muslims to unconditionally condemn Jews for the actions of Israel continue? What are your thoughts and comments?

Personally I do think it’s strange that so many people are making this conflict a battle between Muslims and Jews. Even in the threads I created here I saw a lot of posts along the lines of “We Muslims know that the Jews are subjecting Palestinians,” or “Muslims can see that Israel stole that land from Palestinians.”

Honestly I don’t see what this conflict has to do with being a Muslim. There are Muslims living as citizens of Israel, and men of a certain age are obliged to serve in the Israeli army. There’s even an Islamic holly dome sitting on top of the ruins of the Jewish Temple of Jerusalem near the Wailing Wall. This is in the heart of Israel.

Americans are pretty divided on the issues. Some support Israel and others Hamas. There are more Muslims here than anywhere else in the world, and I don’t see how simply being a Muslim means that you’re automatically against Israel’s right exist as so many ‘Muslims,’ are claiming.

What are your thoughts?

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Posted 1/15/09 , edited 1/15/09
I just want to speak to the muslims only who are about to post on this thread... Save it these threads turn into Islam flaming more then anything also there is no tention between muslims and jews. Whats happening in Palestine and Israel is between a group of palestinian arabs who consists of muslims, christians and some jews versus and invading force who happen to be jews. Be we all know and a lot of people know that these jews who invaded (zionist) arent real jews just jew by name. To even say that only muslims support Israel is false in itself because I get most of my views from christians and jews. Many critics of Israel arent only muslim this is fallacy this is another reason why muslims we dont need to respond on this thread. "Or will the religious bias lead Muslims to unconditionally condemn Jews for the actions of Israel continue?" That statement in its own is bias as if we are condeming the religion of jews we are condeming the Israel government who just so happen to be jew. If they were buddist we would condemn them but not heir religion just the asain government occupying. In the previous threads no muslim yet has said, "jews are all evil, i hate jews, etc.." but there were many "fuck muslim, kill them all, Islam is terrorism." So please as you muislims know and none muslims there is no beef between muslims and jews To all muslims if you respond to this thread and blow it up it will get ignorant and extremely ugly. There will be ignorant posts here attacking Islam just ignore it like I stated muslims and non muslims who dont watch the mainstream and buy into this "muslim vs jew" shit the media trying to brainwash you with just ignore it.


Edit and I have to make this clear if there are jewish people against Israel and her actions then this isnt any kind of stupid religious war between muslim and jews. This is right and wrong. If Palestinians were jews and Israel was a muslim nation I would be with Palestine and would have hate on those muslim brothers. Right from wrong people dont forget that. Muslims were not riding the backseat with Sadam Hussien I know that much.
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Posted 1/15/09 , edited 1/15/09
Jew here, I have no problem with Muslims. The ones I know are great people. The only Muslims I don't like are the Hamas. I have friends that are Muslim, I have friends that are also Jewish, and I have friends that are Christians and Buddhists and Atheists and whatever. I would never discriminate. I'm not Israeli, I'm not a member of the IDF, I have no reason to support every single one of Israel's actions.

A synagogue near mine was recently vandalized. I was very dismayed by the hateful words written on the walls in blood-red spray paint, but that has nothing to do with the Muslims I know. They're just like anybody else, why should I blame them for something they had nothing to do with? If I did, I wouldn't be any better than the people who vandalized the synagogue. I'd be a hypocrite. No one at that temple is a member of the IDF, even if they might support Israel, they're still unrelated from the matter, so if I blamed unrelated Muslims, I'd be mere scum.

People can have their own opinions, let them have them.

Jews and Muslims here won't hate each other. We're all human, we just have different cultures and customs, and Judaism and Islam actually share quite a few things. We both fast on certain holidays, and believe in the Old Testament, though Christians and Muslims believe in newer updated versions as well.

Both sides have suffering members right now. The least we can do is support each other outside the country. Like the Israelis protesting the IDF in Tel Aviv said, "Jews and Palestinians refuse to be enemies." Most of us don't want any more hate.

Ignorance feeds hate. This much is evident. There are ignorant and hateful Jews, I'll be the first to admit, and there are also ignorant and biased Muslims. We're better than that; we can ignore the ignorant masses, and it'll be ok.
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23 / M / Singapore
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Posted 1/15/09
Dont listen to Osama, he is already dead. What you see in vids or audio are fake.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Muslims and Jews.

There is absolutely wrong with Zionist and Muslims Radicals.
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24 / F / Leading your nigh...
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Posted 1/16/09
People are so stupid, they confuse religion with politics which is why we have Muslims bashing Jews and vice versa. I've had plenty of Jewish friends and they are respectful, kind and peaceful people.

This is one of the reasons why countries ban religion is school, because eventually schools would be a house of segregation where religious groups would only stick together.

Jews /= Israelis

Palestinians /= muslims

I know a palestinian jew, he just hates the war because his people are dying, not because of the islamic/ jewish feud.

Besides, at some point in history, Muslims where the ones who had respected Jews a lot, it's just that society want to put a wedge between these two religions.
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28 / F / Morocco
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Posted 1/17/09

SeraphAlford wrote:





Honestly I don’t see what this conflict has to do with being a Muslim. There are Muslims living as citizens of Israel, and men of a certain age are obliged to serve in the Israeli army. There’s even an Islamic holly dome sitting on top of the ruins of the Jewish Temple of Jerusalem near the Wailing Wall. This is in the heart of Israel.



U're right in this,it has nothing to do with "muslims hate jews"!
respectable rabbis in Israel said too:"It's legal & God allows to The Tsahal to kill even women & children in Gaza,as mass punichement to them from God,it doesn't matter even if one million palastinians are killed,it's totally acceptable",
It seems somehow similar to what Benladen is saying about jews!!
http://www.davidduke.com/general/jewish-rabbi-calls-for-the-killing-of-palestinian-children_3643.html
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=5195
http://www.vigile.net/Le-Mercaz-HaRav
the voice of reason must be the guide of both muslims & jews & not Benladen or those rabbis,trust me the problem isn't in islam or judaism!
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32 / F / just around that...
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Posted 1/17/09
it is a jews- muslim war
people from both sides know that
jews are fighting for their Solomon temple
muslims are fighting for al masjid al aqsa
this war will not end tell jesus as muslim believe will come down from heaven

u might not agree with what i say but this is the truth...
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Posted 1/17/09

SeraphAlford wrote:




First thing first, a good article, some lessons learnt
That is a pretty interesting article that you written and it does speak on the possibilty that exist that

1. even within Israel, there are Arabs Muslim or otherwise living side by side with Israeli Jews.
2. other countries in the middle east where Jews and Muslims are living in peacefully is Iran.

The past few threads regarding the issue of Israel and Palestine have been interesting so far and most of the threads which have deviated into a religious debate, or persecution between religion, have actually drew criticism from other CR users.

It is interesting to note that I seen very little of Muslims bashing Jews or Jews bashing Muslims or religious bashing and that most of the threads have actually talk about key issues,


Issue of Israel actions on Palestinian debated not by just Muslims but other independent journalist/ human rights group

"Or will the religious bias lead Muslims to unconditionally condemn Jews for the actions of Israel continue?" - SeraphAlford

Although your article is insightful that Muslims and Jews can work and live side by side peacefully but I do not believe that your statement regarding the issue of Israel hardline tactics were just unconditionally condemn as bias as they come from Muslims.

1. Although most of Gaza are Muslims but there are Palestinian Christians in Gaza who are also persecuted and they do not differentiate between their fellow Gazan.

2. There are also Israeli Human right group that have come out to speak out on past IDF actions which violated human right issues.

3. Foreign Journalist (Reuter, BBC, CNN) have expressed concerned on past hardliner Israel action, use of chemical weapons, why foreign journalist denied entry, lack of food and water and aid to Gazans prior and during.the Gaza conflict.

4. Norwegian doctor and aid workers have spoken out on the lack of medical equipment supplies, fuel to keep generator running, and signs of chemical weapon found within Palestinian civilians.

5. UN have often seek out a ceasefire resolution within Gaza or seek an independent inquiry on past Israel actions but have often their resolutions vetoed out by Israel or US. For their part, despite UN best effort to aid civillians, UN schools which provide shelter have been bombed ( no Hamas was inside the building), UN convoy which was carrying aid and had assurances and clearance by IDF bombed, and lastly UN aid building have been bombed with chemical weapons.

6. The International Committee of the Red Cross who are not in the business of propaganda said the Israeli army refused to grant rescuers access to the site in the Zeitun neighborhood for four days, a delay the agency said it considers unacceptable, relief agency said it found 15 bodies and 18 wounded, including children, needing treatment after Israel shelled the area.

PS: Some websites will tell you that Israeli use of White phosphorous is not illegal and is not considered Chemical weapons, but a check with Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) will say otherwise..


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27 / M / In your room stea...
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Posted 1/17/09 , edited 1/17/09
It's a war. nothing more. so what, religion got involved, big deal, Let em kill each other until someone emerges a victor. thats all that needs to be done. Use rockets, bombs, nerve gas, use whatever you need to to kill the other side. then when it's all over. see who wins and accept it. Complaining and making noise isn't going to do anything. War is war. people die, innocent people die, deal with it.
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Posted 1/17/09
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27 / M
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Posted 1/18/09 , edited 1/18/09

drizza wrote:
"Or will the religious bias lead Muslims to unconditionally condemn Jews for the actions of Israel continue?" That statement in its own is bias as if we are condeming the religion of jews we are condeming the Israel government who just so happen to be jew. If they were buddist we would condemn them but not heir religion just the asain government occupying.



I think you’re profoundly misinterpreting that. I was not suggesting that religious prejudice would prevent peace, though it might, but simply acknowledging that there are people who do feel that way. I was inviting people to express their opinions. The statement was not bias. It simply acknowledged the presence of a bias.


In addition, you shouldn’t be speaking on behalf of the entire ummah. Your use of the royal we is out of place Maybe you and a lot of other Muslims condemn Israel's government and not the Jews, but that's not the entire Ummah. Many Muslims -do- condemn Jews for their religion and ethnicity. After all, if they were only concerned with the Israeli government then why are synagogues being blown up and vandalized in France, America, and the UK?


drizza wrote:
if there are jewish people against Israel and her actions then this isnt any kind of stupid religious war between muslim and jews. This is right and wrong. If Palestinians were jews and Israel was a muslim nation I would be with Palestine and would have hate on those muslim brothers. Right from wrong people dont forget that. Muslims were not riding the backseat with Sadam Hussien I know that much.


I know you would. I bet you that MOST Muslims would, but that’s not true of everyone. There are a lot of Islamic people who feel that they’re obliged to defend Muslim life. To them they’re obliged by the pillar of jihad to retaliate not to attacks on human rights but to attacks on the ummah. Attacks on Muslim rights.

I think that a large portion of the 57 Islamic nations in the world would support Israel if it was also a Muslim nation.
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27 / M
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Posted 1/18/09 , edited 1/18/09

Northboundsnow wrote:

It is interesting to note that I seen very little of Muslims bashing Jews or Jews bashing Muslims or religious bashing and that most of the threads have actually talk about key issues,


I’ve seen a bit of Muslim users attacking Judaism. I haven’t seen any extroversive Jewish users attacking Islam, although I’ve seen some Christians and users who didn’t elude to their personal religious ideology attacking Islam. You see that everywhere, it’s really annoying so I just don’t read it.

I’m a member of the Islamic group here on Crunchy Roll and I really like the Islamic religion. I like the values it instills and I think it gets a bum rep. The problem is that I think it gets a bum rep because of the zealots who pretend to represent it. Zealots like Hamas.





[
PS: Some websites will tell you that Israeli use of White phosphorous is not illegal and is not considered Chemical weapons, but a check with Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) will say otherwise..



White phosphorus is a completely legal. There are regulations as to how it is meant to be used. It can be used as a weapon but is meant to be employed responsibly. However, just because it is legal doesn’t mean it should be. I think white phosphorus should be banned. I condemn its employment, especially in urban areas.

Israel has also used human shields. They apologized for burning thousands of dollars in Humanitarian supplies but apparently didn’t move to replace them. I also condemn the destructions of mosques and UN schools. It is true that Hamas is using these as shelters. However, Israel is not allowed to devastate civilian populations just to get to individual targets.

That’s why we heard the stories about American soldiers not being permitted to return fire on enemy militants when they took cover inside mosques.

So, if I didn’t communicate it properly previous, Israel’s tactics should be condemned as well. Though, I don’t know that this is immediately relevant.
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Posted 1/18/09
This might as well be labeled the "Too long; don't read" thread.

Anyway, I say go Israel. They have every right to defend themselves, considering they have been persecuted for 3,000+ years and they are currently surrounded by enemies.

Don't fuck with Israel, chances are you'll lose some more land in the process.
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27 / M
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Posted 1/18/09

Nayru wrote:

This might as well be labeled the "Too long; don't read" thread.

Anyway, I say go Israel. They have every right to defend themselves, considering they have been persecuted for 3,000+ years and they are currently surrounded by enemies.

Don't fuck with Israel, chances are you'll lose some more land in the process.


Israel hasn't existed for 3,000 plus years.
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Posted 1/18/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Nayru wrote:

This might as well be labeled the "Too long; don't read" thread.

Anyway, I say go Israel. They have every right to defend themselves, considering they have been persecuted for 3,000+ years and they are currently surrounded by enemies.

Don't fuck with Israel, chances are you'll lose some more land in the process.


Israel hasn't existed for 3,000 plus years.


Jews have.
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