Created by Assault911
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Is Taiwan belong to China?
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Posted 1/14/10

ejsu wrote:




THe han chinese in taiwan are categories into 2
1.The Benshengren, who are early Hakka and Hoklo migrants from Fujian and Guangdong provinces of mainland China.
2.The "Mainlanders", who are descended from recent Mandarin-speaking migrants from mainland China who emigrated during and after the Chinese Civil War in 1949.
The CIA World Factbook puts the number of Bensenren at 84% and the number of "mainlanders" at 14%. [3] 70% of Taiwan's population is Hoklo, while 10-15% is Hakka



Of course i am aware that inter marriage betwwen han chinese and native aborigines occurs.


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Posted 1/14/10 , edited 1/14/10

THe han chinese in taiwan are categories into 2
1.The Benshengren, who are early Hakka and Hoklo migrants from Fujian and Guangdong provinces of mainland China.
2.The "Mainlanders", who are descended from recent Mandarin-speaking migrants from mainland China who emigrated during and after the Chinese Civil War in 1949.
The CIA World Factbook puts the number of Bensenren at 84% and the number of "mainlanders" at 14%. [3] 70% of Taiwan's population is Hoklo, while 10-15% is Hakka



Of course i am aware that inter marriage betwwen han chinese and native aborigines occurs.

I am trying to tell you, that the early Han immigrants were only men and few in number. The only way "Han" still exist today is by intermarriage with the locals, in particular the Pin-Pu tribe. These numbers you kept pulling from internet only assumed Han Chinese are still Han Chinese because it was being taught that way, when in fact they are only partially Han and most likely small portion at that. You really need to look at some recent Taiwanese historians' studies. Like I said, prove is in the DNA, there are a lot of people had their DNA examined and proved this to be true.

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Posted 1/15/10

ejsu wrote:



What i am trying to tell you is there are 3 huge waves of chinese migrant from mainland china to taiwan which consists of both males and females.

The first major influx of migrants from the Chinese mainland came during the Dutch period sparked by the political and economic chaos on the China coast during the Manchu invasion and the end of the Ming Dynasty.

In 1664 a Chinese fleet led by the Ming loyalist Cheng Ch'eng-kung retreated from the mainland and occupied Taiwan. Cheng expelled the Dutch and established Taiwan as a base in his attempt to restore the Ming Dynasty.

During the 18th and 19th centuries migration from Fujian and Guangdong provinces steadily increased and Chinese supplanted aborigines as the dominant population group.

The majority, about 85%, of Taiwan's population is descended from Han Chinese from mainland China who immigrated to Taiwan between 1661 and 1895 A.D. Another significant fraction is descended from Han Chinese who immigrated from mainland China in the 1940s and 1950s.


After the 15th century, significant Chinese populations migrated from the Fujian province of mainland China in growing numbers (this is the closest province to Taiwan and the reason the Taiwanese dialect of spoken Chinese is so similar to the Fujian.Similarly, a growing group of ethnic Chinese called the Hakka, also came from the Fujian province . END OF STORY.

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Posted 1/15/10 , edited 1/15/10

What i am trying to tell you is there are 3 huge waves of chinese migrant from mainland china to taiwan which consists of both males and females.

The first major influx of migrants from the Chinese mainland came during the Dutch period sparked by the political and economic chaos on the China coast during the Manchu invasion and the end of the Ming Dynasty.

In 1664 a Chinese fleet led by the Ming loyalist Cheng Ch'eng-kung retreated from the mainland and occupied Taiwan. Cheng expelled the Dutch and established Taiwan as a base in his attempt to restore the Ming Dynasty.

During the 18th and 19th centuries migration from Fujian and Guangdong provinces steadily increased and Chinese supplanted aborigines as the dominant population group.

The majority, about 85%, of Taiwan's population is descended from Han Chinese from mainland China who immigrated to Taiwan between 1661 and 1895 A.D. Another significant fraction is descended from Han Chinese who immigrated from mainland China in the 1940s and 1950s.


After the 15th century, significant Chinese populations migrated from the Fujian province of mainland China in growing numbers (this is the closest province to Taiwan and the reason the Taiwanese dialect of spoken Chinese is so similar to the Fujian.Similarly, a growing group of ethnic Chinese called the Hakka, also came from the Fujian province . END OF STORY.


I am sick of repeating myself, there were no females. Females traveling oversea were prohibited. Again, I ask you to read about more recent Taiwanese Historians' studies. END OF STORY.
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Posted 1/15/10 , edited 1/15/10
i am also sick of repeating that there are also females migrating to taiwan . why r u so stubborn ..unless u r taiwanese aborigines..
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Posted 1/15/10
My mum a Taiwanese..but she consider herself both chinese and taiwanese because her ancestry are from Guangdong Province of Mainland China and she is born in taiwan. Inter marriage between han chinese and aborigines do occur..but not necessary happen to everyone. My mum is still pure han chinese. And i think we should stop fighting about this issue...we should stop fighting among each others. ..----PEACE---
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Posted 1/20/10
i've read some news and it says that Taiwan is part of china. it has become a part of china a few years ago
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Posted 1/22/10

D3stinyAwaits wrote:

i am also sick of repeating that there are also females migrating to taiwan . why r u so stubborn ..unless u r taiwanese aborigines..

If you actually know Chinese history, not just pulling info from internet, you would know that Qing Dynasty outlaws females to be out in the sea. Fishermen even believed that females on a boat would cause the boats to overturn. I really don't know who is the stubborn one here, I am telling you the more recent studies and you refused to even listen, simply accuse me of anti-China.
Am I Taiwanese aborigines? that's what I've been telling you, these is Taiwanese aborigines in most Taiwanese. History has been lied to Taiwanese because Chinese are too proud to teach the mothers' side's history. I am simply trying to acknowledge the mothers' side of Taiwanese history. I was never denying most Taiwanese has Han blood in them, just less so than what it's been taught.

I kept repeating, I have known many people who went through DNA examine and determined that they are in fact more Austronesian than Chinese when they used to believed that they are pure Han.


pwincee wrote:

My mum a Taiwanese..but she consider herself both chinese and taiwanese because her ancestry are from Guangdong Province of Mainland China and she is born in taiwan. Inter marriage between han chinese and aborigines do occur..but not necessary happen to everyone. My mum is still pure han chinese. And i think we should stop fighting about this issue...we should stop fighting among each others. ..----PEACE---
Your mom thinks that she is pure Han, she may have to re-examine that believe. Inter marriage is almost unavoidable for the early immigrants, it was never documented and that part of history was never pass down by the Han side of the family.


1993serena wrote:

i've read some news and it says that Taiwan is part of china. it has become a part of china a few years ago
Just because Chinese government kept saying it, it doesn't make it true. Taiwanese doesn't pay tax to China, nor does Chinese government ever budget any expense to Taiwan.
Posted 1/24/10
seriously..taiwanese and chinese look the same.. they doesnt look like taiwan's aborigines which has darker skin.
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Posted 1/26/10 , edited 1/26/10
er... no. Not always true. There are more than 14 officially recognized tribes, and some more Chinese looking than others.
You mix some of them for 400 years, chances are the image would be blurred.

case in point, these actress/singers/politician all look "Chinese"

She is half


She is full blood aborigines


Also full blood aborigines
Posted 1/26/10 , edited 1/27/10
not really...u can really differentiate them from han chinese if you look carefully. some might look chinese but rarely..most of them dont look like this:

example of full aborigines taiwanese singer:







other aborigines






Han chinese (Cyndi wang xin ling)



Her family originates from Qingdao, Shandong, China.





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Posted 1/27/10
I don't disagree most aborigines are distinctively looking different from Han Chinese, but remember what I kept saying, most of the supposedly "Han Chinese" in Taiwan have mixed blood with aborigines. not necessarily the aborigines' feature would be showing. You can't deny some supposedly "Han Chinese" has aborigines' features as well.
The point is, look is deceiving, you can't just say "oh he looks Chinese, must be Chinese".
Posted 1/27/10
i didnt say "oh he look chinese , must be chinese" we know that korean ,jap and chinese look almost the same...but pure aborigines's features look different from chinese.. the point is u pointed in earlier post that, taiwanese and han chinese doesnt share the same language , culture. ..?
How can you say they dodnt share the same languge and race..when they speak mandarin , same culture and also have chinese surname.

Being that Chinese historically considered ethnicity/race as determined by the father...any resulting kids would be seen as and raised as Han. This kept a cultural separation between the Han and the aborigines. I would also think Han chauvinism was a large part of not mixing too much or going "too native".

Overtime the Han who migrated there won the best land and grew in greater numbers (due to higher child survival rate and also infusion of new people from the Mainland) and the aboriginals got pushed back. This pattern continued for hundreds of years until you have what you have today. Aborigines being a very very small minority, with a lot of Han Chinese having aboriginal ancestry, but mostly on their mother's side and likely distant, at a time before their were a lot of Han women (born on) or brought to the island.
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Posted 1/28/10
Mandarin was forced upon Taiwanese after WWII. Taiwanese, what the majority of the early immigrant speaks is no longer the same language that it was when the Hans first set foot on Taiwan. Culture is also no longer the same as what it was. I don't want to repeat what I have posted before. NOT the same exact culture and language.

Yes, Chinese considered ethnicity as determined by the father, but the Pin-pu Tribe that the Han inter-married with were determined by the mother's side. Han were a stronger/more cunning race, so the aborigines' side were pushed aside. How do you explain a full blood aborigine has a Chinese family name? it was all forced upon them. over the years, even some don't even know their own race.

Again, Qing Dynasty DO NOT allow women to be on boats, check the history records.
Please also go study up on more recent Taiwanese historian studies, some of these study wouldn't have possible 20 years ago, because the Taiwanese government wouldn't have allowed it.
Posted 1/30/10
i am talking about han chinese not taiwanese aborigines in general..so the culture and language is the same. Of couse there will be slighty different from mainland after they seperated for so long...and due to local cultural influence.

possession of a Han surname by aborigines was considered to be a sign of being civilized, in part because adoption of a Han surname meant that that person was now entered into the population registration books and could be taxed.Possession of a Han surname, then, could confer a broad range of significant economic and social benefits upon Aborigines. most of the lowland aboriginal tribes assimilated with the Han immigrants, and eventually no longer saw themselves or were seen as a distinct population.

You are saying that han are cunning race? For a few decades in the first half of the 20th century under Japanese rule, a strict policy was put in place to quickly assimilate the island's inhabitants en masse by instituting Japanese names. These names were generally abandoned in Taiwan after 1945 when Japanese rule ended. Japanese policy, published twenty years before the onset of their rule on Taiwan, cast Taiwanese Aborigines as “vicious, violent and cruel” and concluded “this is a pitfall of the world; we must get rid of them all” so do you consider that cunning too?

after qing dynasty, there are women who migrated there too.

The Taiwanese government has recently let people change their names back to their aboriginal tribal names. (which i think they really should regain their original name)
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