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Eugenic, Human enhancement, Transhumanism, etc.
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Posted 2/8/09

ShroomInferno wrote:


Teresa_Yuuki wrote:

what?

can someone shorten that for me?


Extended Discussion section of the forum seemingly ain't your place to be around.

If you're not able or willing to read a page long post, then the ED section is the wrong place for you to stay in.
We don't need any more of those brainless ninnies, such as you.......



Dear MR. High and Mighty,

I AM able and DID read the post but I could not completely comprehend. Therefore, I asked for a summary. Just cause i did so, i am now considered a "brainless ninnie"?? Sir, i do have to ask, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??? What if i was just a little 14 year old child?? Just cause someone did not fully understand something does not mean they are dumb.

WHY SO SERIOUS?this is just the internet, get over yourself.



ShroomInferno wrote:
... who can't contribute more than one liners about how kawaii it would be when naruto would hook up with sasuke, spamming polls in endless amounts, and whine about how much of a grief a page long post has caused them. No, don't even start with your lame japanophile-isms. Just leave this section and move to the sink filled with those homosocial preteen emos who fap to Dracula porn - General section.


ok, i contributed two lines. yes thats one line more than you are complaining about.
i dont even watch naruto.
i did not whine or grief over the long post.
i dont even know what japanophile-ism means.
what do u have against homosocial preteen emos???
haha i wouldnt doubt if there really was vampire porn out there.
general section is pretty wicked.
why are u such a hater?




ShroomInferno wrote:
Will I see any more one liners with similar stupid content as the one I quoted, I'll notify a mod.

I digress.


ok mr.mini mod. honestly. ur post is worthless, and reportable, and more of a stupid content than mine.
mine on the other hand, was not reportable.

so, in conclusion, stop being such a dick on the boards, cause no one needs your issues. and no one wants to hear how much u hate certain types of people on CR. we dont care about your problems. stop being so pessimistic and a hater. now try to leave your chair once in a while. Sorry life doesnt treat u as well as others.


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Posted 2/8/09

o0James0o wrote:




first of all i mentioned the scientist to show that it wasn't from "propoganda from the ignorant mass" and i don't know where you got that from...and anyways he speaks common sense and he explains his reasons why.

so youre saying a scientist must always be correct and not ignorant?. well, im never really good at persuading people to take my stance.




i explain the reasoning behind this but you still have yet to refute my points

ok, lets say this for example.

the government need to stripe all the rich people off their power, and create a competitive society where one's status is determined by one's accomplishment and that one's descendants would be downgrade to the status of a trainee without any concern for their status of birth and have to accomplish something in order to get better status.

therefore, the reason why is to make our species better.


do you even know what capitalism is? have you not taken history or something...

really, is it not you who dont get what it is? did i not quote what you said?! is what youre describing not capitalism?! well, maybe not what capitalism are meant to be, but it is what it have became.



HA! Are you serious! the job to population will still be the same its not like suddenly all the dumb people die out. and even so, it still wouldn't be as high as jobs requiring intellect or else everyone would be wanting to flip burgers. See what i mean? you fail to look at the BIG PICTURE

really, is it not you who only see the life around you? it is true that its not like all the dumb people would be gone, but after a generation or 2, if eugenic principles were applied, there would be a significant change in the amount of ignorant mass.

ive told you many many many damn times that the wages of a job depends on the job and its demand of workers! with the less amount of workers for a certain job, the prices would surely raise and the workers can go on strike with more chance of winning.


what poor people do on their own is their business but opportunities are there if the choose to take it. Why else are there scholarships available and community colleges who want to start their education all over again?

what im trying to tell you is that everyone's circumstances are different. some of the opportunities are not available for all.


umm carnegie was a poor immigrant and rockefeller was born on a farm. Don't be saying things you don't know

yes, carnegie is a poor immigrant. but by no chance is he of those low class people. and yes rockerfeller is born on a farm but he isnt a low class either. their status is those of lower middle class people (the working class) but not the laboring people who are in debt and such. also, another important factor that i forgot to mention is that people that rose in class often have connections.



by "spilling blood" which is resulting in the able people losing jobs to lazy genetically enhanced bastards would "achieve the conclusion" that genetic enhancement made society better as a whole, but sacrificed the jobs of normal people and created an aristocratic society to gain it.

what? i am completely lost... are you trying to say that people of the upper class deserve their status from their ancestors and that the lower class should not stop being ignorant mass with the help of eugenics, and genetic engineering?
i do not get what you mean by an aristocratic society. a perfect society in my eyes, is as i stated in my first quote of your post.


and as for this quote

It will get worse before it gets better.
There will be light, at the end of the tunnel.
the only problem is, who is it getting better for? who is it that's getting the better end of the bargain?

really, are you for the upper class or against them? the end result is that the human species would be more intelligent and that mean that the upper class would likely lose their status but the ignorant mass would also be less. therefore, it is better for humanity in general.



ugh...yo don't get it. i give up. someone else please explain it to him
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Posted 2/8/09 , edited 2/8/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:



o0James0o wrote:

well, i am a pro-eugenic, pro-transhumanism, pro-human enhancement, pro-playing god kind of person. (even though i believe the human race is pretty much doomed and those ideas are hard to achieve, therefore, it is better to just kill off the human race and create a new race. yes, i am an extremist, so?)

Then why bother supporting ideals that promote the artificial improvement of the human race? Why waste all that time, energy, effort, and money into improving ourselves if we're just "doomed?"

You know what's really extreme? Eating a chunk of arsenic. That stuff is hardcore man.

you must be mistaken, i said it is "pretty much doomed".
let me ask, if you have a building that can be fixed, would you just crush it down and start a new one? the answer is most likely no unless it can no longer be fixed.

you must be mistaken about what i meant by "extremist". it means that im a radical person.



The only reason why people are against such movements are religion,ethic,moral, and personal issues.

Aren't the bold-lettered words the same reasons why you support these movements?

only personal i believe.



well, i guess the majority of the people are against such movements but those people are all but selfish ignorant fools that doesnt care about anything but themselves.

And how will creating an elite race of humans change that? Those superior humans will be greedy and selfish and, like LemonyPanda said, prevent the inferior ones from ever achieving anything. You said that the low-wage jobs would be in higher demand and those inferior people would become more valuable, but what's stopping the superior people from creating machines that can do those low-wage jobs, and making the inferior people completely useless?

it is true that it is likely that the elites of today , if such movement were to happen, would prevent the lower status from gaining anything. thats why there must be government intervene and they must stripe the elites off their power (which is pretty much impossible since we all know that the elites owned the government)

it is true that we can always create machine for jobs (which we are currently doing now), but there are some jobs that will always require human labor and/or supervision. therefore, there will always be jobs for the inferiors. no to mention, its not like there would be many inferiors once the perfect society were created. racism would also end since we would see each other as common earthlings. it is all for the greater good.



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Posted 2/8/09

o0James0o wrote:

you must be mistaken about what i meant by "extremist". it means that im a radical person.


I know, that's why I said if you really believe wiping out the human race and "restarting" is the best thing for the world, you'd start by killing yourself and bring us one step closer to that goal.



it is true that we can always create machine for jobs (which we are currently doing now), but there are some jobs that will always require human labor and/or supervision. therefore, there will always be jobs for the inferiors. no to mention, its not like there would be many inferiors once the perfect society were created. racism would also end since we would see each other as common earthlings. it is all for the greater good.


What jobs might those be? I can't think of any low-wage, no-skill-required jobs that the superior people couldn't build a robot to do (we've already made robots to take over most of those kinds of jobs)

It depends on how we would go about creating this new race of people. If it's completely government controlled like you said, then this "perfect" society would turn out to be a dystopian utopia like in various fictional novels (Brave New World, The Giver, Anthem, etc). If people had the freedom to choose it by paying for it, it would obviously cost a lot, only the rich elite would be able to obtain it, which would even further secure their position at the top and make it even more difficult for others to reach the top.

While racism may cease to exist, other forms of bigotry will arise. The superior people will look down upon the inferior people and strip away all their freedom. Prejudice and bigotry will always exist as long as people have opinions.

Posted 2/9/09 , edited 2/9/09

killar wrote:



As funny (and partially true) that was, I have to delete it.

Eh, looks like I got reported
:( Well, I guess I went too far, but I can't help it..I can't even explain how revolted posts of the kind make me, especially as of late when I see what a big swamp CR has become because of people like that.


Teresa_Yuuki wrote:


I'll ignore any attempts of you flaming me for now.


"what?

can someone shorten that for me?"


I'm sorry, I might have exaggerated, but you'll have to admit that your post was a typical post for someone who doesn't seem to belong in the ED section.

If you don't understand what Eugenics and Transhumanism mean you should have said so, instead of making it sound as if the OP's too long for you to read; that's what your post did reflect!

So, now that we cleared up this misunderstanding, I might as well help you getting an idea of Eugenics, and Transhumanism, right? Or I could simply tell you to google those terms, which I'm sure of, you can manage, or am I wrong?

The way I understand this thread is, what kind of opinion you hold towards the ideas that Eugenics and Transhumanism represent. Like, why you think it's good, or bad, or maybe even both, etc.

Here are a few links you might want to take a look at to get a better understanding of what Eugenics and Transhumanism is:
About Eugenics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics
http://www.eugenics.net/
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=962

About Transhumanism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/



Yeah, I know that you wanted a brief summary about this topic, but I don't think that a brief summary would do the job, at least not that good of a job to make you actually able to contribute a sound opinion to the topic.

But to say the least, all of those mentioned movements aim for a perfect human being; no illnesses, extreme strength, unbeatable health, longer lives (trying to reach immortality), high intelligence, etc.
And yes, it's quite an utopian idea, but you'll have also to see the bad sides that such evolution could bring to us. Physical, social and psychological side effects.

PS: you have no excuse for your ignorance whatsoever. You have access to the internet, you have access to google. If you don't understand something then GOOGLE for it, and don't excuse your ignorance with your age. The age argument is pointless online.


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Posted 2/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:



o0James0o wrote:

you must be mistaken about what i meant by "extremist". it means that im a radical person.


I know, that's why I said if you really believe wiping out the human race and "restarting" is the best thing for the world, you'd start by killing yourself and bring us one step closer to that goal.

how many times do i have to tell you that restarting is the last option? if we can fix it, we ought fix it.

ignorant morons like yourself who suggest people who knows better than you to kill themselves are the downfall of humanity.



it is true that we can always create machine for jobs (which we are currently doing now), but there are some jobs that will always require human labor and/or supervision. therefore, there will always be jobs for the inferiors. no to mention, its not like there would be many inferiors once the perfect society were created. racism would also end since we would see each other as common earthlings. it is all for the greater good.


What jobs might those be? I can't think of any low-wage, no-skill-required jobs that the superior people couldn't build a robot to do (we've already made robots to take over most of those kinds of jobs)

cashier, farmer, supervisor, etc.
it is true that most of those jobs can be taken over by robots, but we must know that there would always be supervisors to look after the robots and some jobs are faster by man than by machines.


It depends on how we would go about creating this new race of people. If it's completely government controlled like you said, then this "perfect" society would turn out to be a dystopian utopia like in various fictional novels (Brave New World, The Giver, Anthem, etc). If people had the freedom to choose it by paying for it, it would obviously cost a lot, only the rich elite would be able to obtain it, which would even further secure their position at the top and make it even more difficult for others to reach the top.

you must be mistaken about your "dystopian" societies for i saw them as very "utopian"

though, the members of their society lacked freewill, which i really much disapprove. my utopian society is a competitive society in which everyone starts at the same level and works their way up. their descendants would be down to the bottom level and work their way up (unlike now, in which birth determines much of the status of a person). a society like that would be fair. but in order for such a society to work, the people must not be ignorant like yourself and force would most likely be required.



While racism may cease to exist, other forms of bigotry will arise. The superior people will look down upon the inferior people and strip away all their freedom. Prejudice and bigotry will always exist as long as people have opinions.

if the world were to become one like the utopia i believe in, the superior have the rights to look down on the inferiors. everyone would be raised in the same environment, those who are better would stand out.

freedom would not be stripped if the offsprings were forced start at the same level again for the superior would have no value in keeping their superiority.
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Posted 2/9/09
Stop calling people ignorant.

Like you'll listen anyway.
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Posted 2/9/09
i'm pro transhumanism.

But before they spend governmental budget on it. Or any other friggin useless crap like funding foreign country's military *cough2 US Israel cough2*. Maybe they should spend money researching on shit that actually matters:

- Efficient replacement for petrol
- How to increase the world's food supply
- How to enforce population control
- Advance research on medicine
- etc
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Posted 2/9/09 , edited 2/9/09

o0James0o wrote:

ignorant morons like yourself who suggest people who knows better than you to kill themselves are the downfall of humanity.

I can bring down an entire species of animals by simply criticizing the opinions of hypocritical misanthropes like you? I didn't know I was so badass. I bet Chuck Norris can't even do that.


cashier, farmer, supervisor, etc.
it is true that most of those jobs can be taken over by robots, but we must know that there would always be supervisors to look after the robots and some jobs are faster by man than by machines.

There's already automated cashiers, farming requires skills so that doesn't count, if humans become as superior as you would like them to be they could build robots who could look after themselves, and they would only need 2 or 3 humans to take care of maintenance issues.



you must be mistaken about your "dystopian" societies for i saw them as very "utopian"

The point of those novels I mentioned and so many others is to demonstrate that what we would consider a utopia really isn't as perfect as it seems on the surface, because the only way to create a utopia is to take away people's humanity and make us no different than any other herding animal.


though, the members of their society lacked freewill, which i really much disapprove. my utopian society is a competitive society in which everyone starts at the same level and works their way up. their descendants would be down to the bottom level and work their way up (unlike now, in which birth determines much of the status of a person). a society like that would be fair. but in order for such a society to work, the people must not be ignorant like yourself and force would most likely be required.

People will always be ignorant as long as we have opinions. The only way to fix that is, like I said, take away everyone's humanity, which is impossible because someone or some group of people would have to retain theirs to be able to take it away from others, since that is a human trait. The last person or group of people would not take away their own humanity because they would realize that it gives them power over everyone else, just like we have power over every other animal species on the planet, and, being human, they would be greedy and selfish and would not give up that power.

Your system sounds a lot like capitalism, I thought you were against that? The ones who do manage to make it to the top will let their superiority breed ignorance and greed, so they'll oppress the inferior people and people who aren't as superior as them, there will be gradually less wealth to spread around until only a very small group of elites controls most of the wealth, and everyone else is given barely enough to stay alive. Even if their wealth is taken from them at death and re-distributed, it will most likely be given to the elites who are still alive, or leave a small window for only a very small amount of people to climb to the top.




if the world were to become one like the utopia i believe in, the superior have the rights to look down on the inferiors. everyone would be raised in the same environment, those who are better would stand out.

That's still bigotry, which will lead to the greed and ignorance that I mentioned in the previous paragraph.


freedom would not be stripped if the offsprings were forced start at the same level again for the superior would have no value in keeping their superiority.


In order for the elite group's children to start at the bottom, they'd have to be taken away from their parents and be put with the rest of the inferiors, and be oppressed just like them. They would still value their superiority because they are human, and humans are selfish and greedy and love having power over other people.


leviathan343 wrote:

Stop calling people ignorant.

Like you'll listen anyway.


Let him feel like he's superior. He needs the ego boost so that he won't go crazy and shoot up his school.
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Posted 2/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:




you really dont understand what im trying to say here, does you?

since i know its obvious that you dont understand 75% of the stuff, i suggest you to read it over and if you still dont understand, just read it again and keep repeating it until you understand...


the only part in which i would agree with you is about the jobs. though we know with some limitations, everyone would be happy and even the most idiotic person would have a job that fits them...
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Posted 2/9/09

leviathan343 wrote:

Stop calling people ignorant.

Like you'll listen anyway.


ill listen if you can persuade me, if you cant, why bother?

yes, im a narcissist, so?
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Posted 2/9/09

o0James0o wrote:

you really dont understand what im trying to say here, does you?

since i know its obvious that you dont understand 75% of the stuff, i suggest you to read it over and if you still dont understand, just read it again and keep repeating it until you understand...


Sorry, sometimes I have a hard time understanding things that don't make any sense, like women who complain that you don't pay enough attention to them, then get mad when you hide in their closet and watch them undress.


the only part in which i would agree with you is about the jobs. though we know with some limitations, everyone would be happy and even the most idiotic person would have a job that fits them...

With limitations it wouldn't be truly free and competitive, just like America today (minus the inheriting wealth part).
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Posted 2/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


o0James0o wrote:

you really dont understand what im trying to say here, does you?

since i know its obvious that you dont understand 75% of the stuff, i suggest you to read it over and if you still dont understand, just read it again and keep repeating it until you understand...


Sorry, sometimes I have a hard time understanding things that don't make any sense, like women who complain that you don't pay enough attention to them, then get mad when you hide in their closet and watch them undress.


the only part in which i would agree with you is about the jobs. though we know with some limitations, everyone would be happy and even the most idiotic person would have a job that fits them...

With limitations it wouldn't be truly free and competitive, just like America today (minus the inheriting wealth part).

if its that hard to understand, it is because you never tried to understand... you dont have to agree with me, but at least understand what im saying here. i know it is but a utopian dream, it isnt impossible to achieve. if only people like yourself are actually willing to try...

limitations on jobs.... of course...

you wont want a surgeon that doesnt know anything to open you and do surgery, do you? and you wont want to see some beggar asking you for money when they can be put to work, correct?

those are the limitations im speaking of...

yes, as long as there is no inheriting wealth and everyone starts fresh, it is a competitive society that would be better than those so called capitalism and communism and all the other forms of governments...

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Posted 2/9/09

o0James0o wrote:

if its that hard to understand, it is because you never tried to understand... you dont have to agree with me, but at least understand what im saying here. i know it is but a utopian dream, it isnt impossible to achieve. if only people like yourself are actually willing to try...


I do understand, and I wish that something like what you imagine was possible, but it's not because of several flaws that I already pointed out.


yes, as long as there is no inheriting wealth and everyone starts fresh, it is a competitive society that would be better than those so called capitalism and communism and all the other forms of governments...


It's essentially the same as pure capitalism, the only difference is that the children of the elite will become oppressed just like everyone else. There will still be oppression though, which removes the competitiveness.
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Posted 2/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


o0James0o wrote:

if its that hard to understand, it is because you never tried to understand... you dont have to agree with me, but at least understand what im saying here. i know it is but a utopian dream, it isnt impossible to achieve. if only people like yourself are actually willing to try...


I do understand, and I wish that something like what you imagine was possible, but it's not because of several flaws that I already pointed out.


yes, as long as there is no inheriting wealth and everyone starts fresh, it is a competitive society that would be better than those so called capitalism and communism and all the other forms of governments...


It's essentially the same as pure capitalism, the only difference is that the children of the elite will become oppressed just like everyone else. There will still be oppression though, which removes the competitiveness.


if theres a flaw, you can always fix it to your desire...


yes, it is a capitalism based socialism... and the children would all be taken and learn whatever they want to learn (like in colleges where one can take classes that one want to take) and those who succeeded in their field should succeed in life.

ohh, i guess you must have forgotten this that i said in many posts back, the society is owned by the government (a non-corrupted one) and all the companies and everything is owned by it (communism of today), and the only thing people would do is to compete (capitalism)...

so, pretty much combining the ideas of capitalism, socialism, and communism
though socialism and communism are pretty much the same -.-
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