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Eugenic, Human enhancement, Transhumanism, etc.
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Posted 2/9/09

o0James0o wrote:

if theres a flaw, you can always fix it to your desire...

There is one flaw that cannot be fixed, the one that you love to point out in others: ignorance. As long as we retain our humanity, ignorance will always exist, which leads to greed and corruption and bigotry and oppression that I've mentioned many times over.


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Posted 2/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


o0James0o wrote:

if theres a flaw, you can always fix it to your desire...

There is one flaw that cannot be fixed, the one that you love to point out in others: ignorance. As long as we retain our humanity, ignorance will always exist, which leads to greed and corruption and bigotry and oppression that I've mentioned many times over.




yes, ignorance.. but what causes ignorance, it is our act of censorship... and what causes those, the failure of government, morals, religions, etc...

if we were to fix all those, ignorance would likely be gone too...
if we were to allow anyone to do whatever they want ,of course, with consequences to their actions, ignorance would be gone in no time...


and seems like were getting off topic...
so let me add, eugenics would come in by limiting the birth rate of the failures, like how china have a 1 child policy, those who are inferior would be forced to have 1 child to...(2 people giving birth to 1 child = 1 less person in the long run)

and transhumanism would join in too with the help of competitive and such, we can finally set ourselves to work to improve human life (since there is no longer those rich guys preventing you, and religions would most likely be separated or abolished)
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Posted 2/9/09

o0James0o wrote:

yes, ignorance.. but what causes ignorance, it is our act of censorship... and what causes those, the failure of government, morals, religions, etc...

if we were to fix all those, ignorance would likely be gone too...
if we were to allow anyone to do whatever they want ,of course, with consequences to their actions, ignorance would be gone in no time...

What causes ignorance is lack of consideration for other people's well-being, and since humans are selfish we do not care about every single other person on the planet, only ourselves and those who are close to us. The only way to get rid of selfishness is to take away people's humanity, and I already explained why that won't work.



and seems like were getting off topic...

Not really, I'm trying to explain why the artificial improvement of humanity won't work.



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Posted 2/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


o0James0o wrote:

yes, ignorance.. but what causes ignorance, it is our act of censorship... and what causes those, the failure of government, morals, religions, etc...

if we were to fix all those, ignorance would likely be gone too...
if we were to allow anyone to do whatever they want ,of course, with consequences to their actions, ignorance would be gone in no time...

What causes ignorance is lack of consideration for other people's well-being, and since humans are selfish we do not care about every single other person on the planet, only ourselves and those who are close to us. The only way to get rid of selfishness is to take away people's humanity, and I already explained why that won't work.



and seems like were getting off topic...

Not really, I'm trying to explain why the artificial improvement of humanity won't work.





but you see, i dont believe ignorance came from selfishness for i believe the act of selfishness if one of the most virtue thing in humanity...

i dont want to get deep into that, but if you are not for yourself, who would? everyone can betray you... ignorance came from the lack of knowledge and the wanting to be accepted...


well, you never know unless you try... ohh how i wish we can just take an island off the map and get humans to volunteer to be test subjects and see if such a form of government would work... but then, some ignorant fool might say this is a "crime against humanity"...
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Posted 2/9/09

o0James0o wrote:

but you see, i dont believe ignorance came from selfishness for i believe the act of selfishness if one of the most virtue thing in humanity...

It is because of selfishness that the capitalist system that you hate exists.


i dont want to get deep into that, but if you are not for yourself, who would? everyone can betray you... ignorance came from the lack of knowledge and the wanting to be accepted...

Often times that lack of knowledge is cause by a person's selfish desire to not learn something that contradicts what they hold to be true, and wanting to be accepted is a selfish desire.

If people weren't selfish enough to betray you and look out for themselves, then you wouldn't have to be selfish and only look out for yourself.



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Posted 2/9/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


o0James0o wrote:

but you see, i dont believe ignorance came from selfishness for i believe the act of selfishness if one of the most virtue thing in humanity...

It is because of selfishness that the capitalist system that you hate exists.


i dont want to get deep into that, but if you are not for yourself, who would? everyone can betray you... ignorance came from the lack of knowledge and the wanting to be accepted...

Often times that lack of knowledge is cause by a person's selfish desire to not learn something that contradicts what they hold to be true, and wanting to be accepted is a selfish desire.

If people weren't selfish enough to betray you and look out for themselves, then you wouldn't have to be selfish and only look out for yourself.





ahh, the reason why capitalism exists is the ignorance in the majority (but who can we blame, the majority are idiotic followers anyways)... selfishness promotes capitalism but the idea of capitalism is that the selfishness would work for the people, and that is, indeed, true...

okay, i guess selfishness is a double edged sword... like everything else...

of course, that includes eugenic and transhumanism
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Posted 2/9/09 , edited 2/9/09

ShroomInferno wrote:


killar wrote:



As funny (and partially true) that was, I have to delete it.

Eh, looks like I got reported
:( Well, I guess I went too far, but I can't help it..I can't even explain how revolted posts of the kind make me, especially as of late when I see what a big swamp CR has become because of people like that.


Teresa_Yuuki wrote:


I'll ignore any attempts of you flaming me for now.


"what?

can someone shorten that for me?"


I'm sorry, I might have exaggerated, but you'll have to admit that your post was a typical post for someone who doesn't seem to belong in the ED section.

If you don't understand what Eugenics and Transhumanism mean you should have said so, instead of making it sound as if the OP's too long for you to read; that's what your post did reflect!

So, now that we cleared up this misunderstanding, I might as well help you getting an idea of Eugenics, and Transhumanism, right? Or I could simply tell you to google those terms, which I'm sure of, you can manage, or am I wrong?

The way I understand this thread is, what kind of opinion you hold towards the ideas that Eugenics and Transhumanism represent. Like, why you think it's good, or bad, or maybe even both, etc.

Here are a few links you might want to take a look at to get a better understanding of what Eugenics and Transhumanism is:
About Eugenics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics
http://www.eugenics.net/
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=962

About Transhumanism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/index/



Yeah, I know that you wanted a brief summary about this topic, but I don't think that a brief summary would do the job, at least not that good of a job to make you actually able to contribute a sound opinion to the topic.

But to say the least, all of those mentioned movements aim for a perfect human being; no illnesses, extreme strength, unbeatable health, longer lives (trying to reach immortality), high intelligence, etc.
And yes, it's quite an utopian idea, but you'll have also to see the bad sides that such evolution could bring to us. Physical, social and psychological side effects.

PS: you have no excuse for your ignorance whatsoever. You have access to the internet, you have access to google. If you don't understand something then GOOGLE for it, and don't excuse your ignorance with your age. The age argument is pointless online.




i was going to thank you for ur effort but then i read ur last paragraph and was like this do people detest u and abstain from u irl? cuz i wouldnt be suprised.
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Posted 2/10/09 , edited 2/10/09

AleeceNoTenshi wrote:

It sounds similar to Hitler's Aryan dreams :P

Not necessarily. Hitler emphasized Eugenics with Euthanasia - big difference. A more "modern" view of eugenics is simply just selective breeding of today's smartest and most accomplished people. In other words, we're seen as cattle and we're having sex for the benefits of the offspring.


I don't really like the whole idea of "eugenics" and "better humans" really. I guess if transhumanism and human enhancement is universally available to everyone without elitist restrictions, I'm for it but I doubtful that it can exist without it's major drawbacks.

As for eugenics, the whole concept really annoys me no matter how differently it's framed. This idea labels people by birthmarks instead of merit and while the idea itself may seem somewhat "Progressive", it's actually more regressive into old ideologies that one person is better than another because of their genes.
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Posted 2/10/09

makix wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:

It sounds similar to Hitler's Aryan dreams :P

Not necessarily. Hitler emphasized Eugenics with Euthanasia - big difference. A more "modern" view of eugenics is simply just selective breeding of today's smartest and most accomplished people. In other words, we're seen as cattle and we're having sex for the benefits of the offspring.


I don't really like the whole idea of "eugenics" and "better humans" really. I guess if transhumanism and human enhancement is universally available to everyone without elitist restrictions, I'm for it but I doubtful that it can exist without it's major drawbacks.

As for eugenics, the whole concept really annoys me no matter how differently it's framed. This idea labels people by birthmarks instead of merit and while the idea itself may seem somewhat "Progressive", it's actually more regressive into old ideologies that one person is better than another because of their genes.


I said similar, not exactly, but yes I suppose you are right. Do they also take into account gene defects, like cancer genes and if autism runs in the family of a certain person even if they're a genius?
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Posted 2/10/09 , edited 2/10/09

AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


makix wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:

It sounds similar to Hitler's Aryan dreams :P

Not necessarily. Hitler emphasized Eugenics with Euthanasia - big difference. A more "modern" view of eugenics is simply just selective breeding of today's smartest and most accomplished people. In other words, we're seen as cattle and we're having sex for the benefits of the offspring.


I don't really like the whole idea of "eugenics" and "better humans" really. I guess if transhumanism and human enhancement is universally available to everyone without elitist restrictions, I'm for it but I doubtful that it can exist without it's major drawbacks.

As for eugenics, the whole concept really annoys me no matter how differently it's framed. This idea labels people by birthmarks instead of merit and while the idea itself may seem somewhat "Progressive", it's actually more regressive into old ideologies that one person is better than another because of their genes.


I said similar, not exactly, but yes I suppose you are right. Do they also take into account gene defects, like cancer genes and if autism runs in the family of a certain person even if they're a genius?


Modern ideology of eugenics doesn't really focus on people with defects. The focus is to create people with selective genes to be our world future leaders and such; the concept of euthanasia is taking eugenics to a different approach by selectively purging people who are considered biologically or racially inferior.

In the case that recessive genes of autism or unfavorable genes exist, I would predict that they'd take lower priority in sperm donations/egg donors, but they'd still be used.

If we think of people as cattle, the Hitler's eugenics approach would be to kill off all the inferior cattle while attempting to maintain a pool of dominant cattle genes. A more modern approach would be to let the "inferior" gene cattles wander around in the same pen, but proactively focus on identifying the best animals to mate.
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Posted 2/10/09

o0James0o wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

Stop calling people ignorant.

Like you'll listen anyway.


ill listen if you can persuade me, if you cant, why bother?

yes, im a narcissist, so?


Are there any particular parts of your system you would like me to address?
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Posted 2/10/09

makix wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:


makix wrote:


AleeceNoTenshi wrote:

It sounds similar to Hitler's Aryan dreams :P

Not necessarily. Hitler emphasized Eugenics with Euthanasia - big difference. A more "modern" view of eugenics is simply just selective breeding of today's smartest and most accomplished people. In other words, we're seen as cattle and we're having sex for the benefits of the offspring.


I don't really like the whole idea of "eugenics" and "better humans" really. I guess if transhumanism and human enhancement is universally available to everyone without elitist restrictions, I'm for it but I doubtful that it can exist without it's major drawbacks.

As for eugenics, the whole concept really annoys me no matter how differently it's framed. This idea labels people by birthmarks instead of merit and while the idea itself may seem somewhat "Progressive", it's actually more regressive into old ideologies that one person is better than another because of their genes.


I said similar, not exactly, but yes I suppose you are right. Do they also take into account gene defects, like cancer genes and if autism runs in the family of a certain person even if they're a genius?


Modern ideology of eugenics doesn't really focus on people with defects. The focus is to create people with selective genes to be our world future leaders and such; the concept of euthanasia is taking eugenics to a different approach by selectively purging people who are considered biologically or racially inferior.

In the case that recessive genes of autism or unfavorable genes exist, I would predict that they'd take lower priority in sperm donations/egg donors, but they'd still be used.

If we think of people as cattle, the Hitler's eugenics approach would be to kill off all the inferior cattle while attempting to maintain a pool of dominant cattle genes. A more modern approach would be to let the "inferior" gene cattles wander around in the same pen, but proactively focus on identifying the best animals to mate.


Alright thanks for clearing that part up, we were talking about that in class and there was a bit of confusion on that point.

So in other words, the modern approach is just as flawed as Hitlers,I'm going to continue on your cattle explanation, but basically even if you pick out the best from the cattle, the most intelligent, they wouldn't go in depth to see if it has some sort of disease or defects, but rather judge it by how 'productive' it is.

These day's... you could say that science is going too far. Although, they predict that years from now, probably when our time is forgotten or merely historical references, the human race would all be the same if races were to continue blending with other races. In other words, everyone would have a similar tannish skin tone, everyone would have the same 'defense' mechanism to certain diseases and at the same time would be vulnerable to other ones. Also, the 'superior' beings would have already mixed with the inferiors. So technically if they don't act soon, they may never have that opportunity for we would all be influenced by the exact same genes.
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Posted 2/10/09

leviathan343 wrote:


o0James0o wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

Stop calling people ignorant.

Like you'll listen anyway.


ill listen if you can persuade me, if you cant, why bother?

yes, im a narcissist, so?


Are there any particular parts of your system you would like me to address?


i dont quite understand you...
mind rephrasing it?
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Posted 2/10/09

o0James0o wrote:

i dont quite understand you...
mind rephrasing it?


There are a lot of things I could say in response to your ideas, but I would rather have a mature conversation about it.

So again, are there any parts about your argument I should respond to/challenge?
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Posted 2/10/09 , edited 2/10/09




So in other words, the modern approach is just as flawed as Hitlers,I'm going to continue on your cattle explanation, but basically even if you pick out the best from the cattle, the most intelligent, they wouldn't go in depth to see if it has some sort of disease or defects, but rather judge it by how 'productive' it is.

the reason why hitler's approach is flawed is because he did not unite the whole world, hence, he didn't have absolute power to do such strong eugenic...

the modern approach is not as strong and will happen more gradually. its just like how we breed dogs... we want a certain superior gene, hence we breed certain dogs together (though it is true there are defects caused by the superior genes, but who cares since theyre dogs -- thats what majority of the humans thinks)

but my view is to unite the world, tell the superiors to breed more while limiting the inferior to breed only 1 (1 less person in the long run)... it would take time, but it would help humanity thrive since right now, the inferiors usually have tons of kids while the superiors have few...

with the deflects, we can use the minds of the superior to advance ourselves in science, hence, transhumanism comes... we would fix our problems with our minds..

but, i must tell you, if we do not have superior minds, it is impossible to advance 10 year worth of time in 1 year... hence, we must breed more superior gene to thrive...



These day's... you could say that science is going too far. Although, they predict that years from now, probably when our time is forgotten or merely historical references, the human race would all be the same if races were to continue blending with other races. In other words, everyone would have a similar tannish skin tone, everyone would have the same 'defense' mechanism to certain diseases and at the same time would be vulnerable to other ones. Also, the 'superior' beings would have already mixed with the inferiors. So technically if they don't act soon, they may never have that opportunity for we would all be influenced by the exact same genes.


well, my view of eugenic is only based on intelligence, not race..

also, no matter what race a human is, he/she is still a human..

and lastly, i believe latinos are the best examples of mixed race... it would be possible that there would be a lot of latino looking people in the future...
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