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Palestine/Israel - Norman Finkelstein will explain
Yei
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Posted 2/9/09 , edited 2/9/09

supermalv wrote:

Yei wrote:


No the situation is not as simple, that you can compare it to the french resistance movement. You forgot that the land that is "israel and palestine" today was unclaimed back then when it was liberated from the Ottoman empire. Technically, it wasn't anybody's land. Neither the arab's or the jew's. So saying that the Jews took their land was sort of incorrect.
__________________________

On a different note, I read the news article. Although i would normally argue, saying that source is potentially biased (arab news?). I'll discuss the content of the article instead. I like this bit:

When asked about claims by Israel and the United States that Hamas is seeking to destroy Israel, Meshaal (Hamas chief) said his movement has committed itself to a political plan, which it follows, and called on America, Europe and other international entities to conduct themselves in accordance with this political truth, and to judge Hamas based on its political plan, not on what people imagine.


Political plan = Palestine as back on what it was on 1967? Pardon me for continuing to complain, but I think they weren't being too specific in that news article. Most of it provided useful information though. Think it'll be useful for us pro-palestine people to keep gathering more and more evidence regarding this Palestine's politican plan.

_________________


On finklestein: I'm sure he's a reputable proffessor. But no. I don't trust what anyone say if they don't support their claims with evidence (something i have yet to find out. I'm watching the video straight after this). Even if what they're saying supports my belief. I'm not pro anything. I'm pro-truth.



I wasn't talking about Israel taking their land in 1948, I was referring to the 1967 illegal stealing of the Palestinian land. So the Jews did take their land in that sense. But even the 1948 incident was bad they ETHNICALLY CLEANSED Palestinians that had been living there for 2000 years, expelled millions from their own land, after those same millions let them come live them during the holocaust. That's wrong, the Zionists shouldn't have done something evil like that.

Hmm the point with that Arab News article and Jimmy Carter one, was to prove it when Finkelstein says Hamas agrees to the 2 state solution that the whole world always votes yes to except for Israel and the US.

The reason I got this Finkelstein speech is because he is the most credible source you can get, he is probably the most knowledgeable person on this topic. Like I said before he's Jewish has studied this all his life, is the son of Holocaust survivors, and he is very moral. He has lost his job because of his criticism of Israel and he also has been banned from Israel. If you watch the lecture he tells you where all the info is coming from, but honestly I don't see any reason not to trust him. He is a good man and you can tell, he tells the truth at the cost of losing his job and being called antisemitic or a holocaust denier. He is Jewish and his parents are Holocaust survivors lol I can't repeat that enough, you can trust this guy.
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Posted 2/9/09

Yei wrote:



Well me, i'm pretty impressionable. I'll easily believe it coz I WANT to believe it. Because i feel for the palestinian people too. But the masses/general public won't be so easy to convince because they only watch the mainstream, pro-israel media/news.

And believe me, there's nothing more i want than to inform the general public about Israel/Palestinian truth. But for that we need proofs and evidence (like those news articles you provided in the last post) to do so. Not just pointing out how good of a guy Finkelstein is. You'll soon find out when all the neo-cons flood this board trust me.
___________

On another note... the 1967.. according to wikipedia and most of sources i read from, the coalition of Islam opened fire to Israel first. So Israel retaliate. Only that when they won, Israel failed to go away. For me, this is wrong. But some people would say that winner of the war gets to keep stuff. (hopefully we'll find a source that cites the international law that it is illegal to do so).

And the 1948.. Well. The jews were there since the ancient times first. (King david and moses and all that). So you pretty much still can't say that the jews stole arab's lands. Since it wasn't their land to begin with.
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supermalv wrote:


Yei wrote:



Well me, i'm pretty impressionable. I'll easily believe it coz I WANT to believe it. Because i feel for the palestinian people too. But the masses/general public won't be so easy to convince because they only watch the mainstream, pro-israel media/news.

And believe me, there's nothing more i want than to inform the general public about Israel/Palestinian truth. But for that we need proofs and evidence (like those news articles you provided in the last post) to do so. Not just pointing out how good of a guy Finkelstein is. You'll soon find out when all the neo-cons flood this board trust me.
___________

On another note... the 1967.. according to wikipedia and most of sources i read from, the coalition of Islam opened fire to Israel first. So Israel retaliate. Only that when they won, Israel failed to go away. For me, this is wrong. But some people would say that winner of the war gets to keep stuff. (hopefully we'll find a source that cites the international law that it is illegal to do so).

And the 1948.. Well. The jews were there since the ancient times first. (King david and moses and all that). So you pretty much still can't say that the jews stole arab's lands. Since it wasn't their land to begin with.



Yeah, I get what you mean, but this lecture by Finkelstein sums up everything easily, instead of having to go through everything and provide sources it's easier to let a professor teach it to people.

In the 1967 war, the Arabs did start the war but that doesn't mean you can break international law. The world still says you can't do that. It's clear and simple. How about I cite everything from one of Finkelstein's many books? If people don't believe this Jewish political scientist who's studied this topic his whole life and is probably the most knowledgeable person in the world on it, then I don't think anything will convince them.

In 1948 Europe/UN gave Palestine to the Zionists immorally, they shouldn't have done that, that land was already inhabited by millions of Palestinians for 2000 years, they wouldn't have done it if it weren't for the Holocaust. It doesn't matter who was there first, it's not like the Jews couldn't live there before, they did live there along side the Palestinians in peace for years. But to make the entire land 'Israel' and give control to the Jews is an obvious bad idea, and it's worse to do it in such an evil way and ethnically cleanse millions, and steal their homes and massacre so many as well. Usually people and the world wouldn't allow something like this, but the Holocaust guilt exploitation is the reason the rest of the world didn't come to the Palestinians aid when they were screwed over.

It's like saying the Aboriginals settled in North America first, so you and your family get out of North America now, and the Aboriginal people take over and form their own oppressive nation here. Do you think it's right for all the Americans/Canadians to have to leave North America forever because of that? To make it worse the only reason Israel is still there and still getting away with anything is because it is now just the US's policeman in the Middle East.

I think the problem is People seem to just want to be against Hamas/Palestinians and be pro-Israeli, people actually put their morals aside for Israel and try very hard to overlook lots of things. Like diggs still supporting Israel politically after all that was revealed in the first post and after everything we know Israel did, let's pay attention to what Hamas did and not the reasons why they are doing it. Maybe it's because of the conditioning from our media?
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Trust me the truth is clear as sunshine in a sunny day:it was the biggest robbery in history :Zionists took what's not theirs,& showed the world big lies & did big crimes!!
If only people search more & learn more!!!
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Posted 2/10/09 , edited 2/10/09

supermalv wrote:


digs wrote:


drizza wrote:

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

@Digs you remember on that Israel invades Hamas thread I posted an article about zionist creating fake foriegn websites supporting the west. That website you posted was a prime example the webname also the articles in it is all Pro West, Pro Israel arguements. In fact nothing is being stated on that website about Palestinian treatment. All the information on that website could have best came out from www.foxnews.com itself.


I still hold to what I said in the other thread, but I posted that web-site's article as a balance to the OP one. If this is to educate people on Palestine and Hamas then both sides should be represented. I support the Palestinian people, but I do not support Hamas and I view them as a terrorist organization (not because the US and others classify them as this, but because I classify them this way due to their actions and rhetoric). I am not anti-Palestinian or pro-Israeli military. I support the Palestinian people, and I politically (although not necessarily militarily) agree with Israel.


Then do you also politically agree with Israel's action for occupying what little left of Palestine's territory in West Bank and Gaza border (even till this day)?

How about Israel failing to release the territory they seized after the 6 days war? Even when against international law? (assuming OP's claim to this are correct)


Israel no longer occupies the Gaza strip, in fact they forced all Jews out by force against their will. I think their occupation of the West Bank is sound, they are preventing another Hamas like situation from occurring in the West Bank. I believe arguing "if they pull out there would be no need for Hamas" isn't a very sound argument because after Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. Hamas took Gaza over in a military coup against the Fatah party. They even murdered a Fatah member, chopped him into ribbons, and mailed those pieces to his family back in the West Bank. There is more peace in the West Bank versus Gaza, so I think the Israeli occupation isn't terrible. And who are the Palestinians to say that all people but their race and religion should be allowed to live within their borders? They can govern themselves, but its wrong to be racist and oust people due to race and religion. I agree with most of Israel's arguments for military action (although I don't agree with the type of action used) and I support Israel's right to exist. I believe the solution is a devided two state system in which Palestine and Israel are seperate sovereign entities with their own governments. Not all the Israeli's being murdered, thrown into the sea, and having the whole region ruled by Palestine as an Islamic Sharia government (this is one of Hamas' official goals) I can site this with an essay written that takes these goals from the official covenant that Hamas has adapted on August 18, 1988.


THE COVENANT OF THE HAMAS - MAIN POINTS

=======================================



The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August

18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS,

is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the

territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive

manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the

basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad

(Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS

Covenant:



Goals of the HAMAS:

------------------

'The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian

movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is

Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of

Palestine.' (Article 6)



On the Destruction of Israel:

-----------------------------

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will

obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' (Preamble)



The Exclusive Moslem Nature of the Area:

----------------------------------------

'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession]

consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one

can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.'

(Article 11)



'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the

Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem

wherever he may be.' (Article 13)



The Call to Jihad:

------------------

'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the

individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation,

it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)



'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses

everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the

call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will

reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is

achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about.'

(Article 33)



Rejection of a Negotiated Peace Settlement:

-------------------------------------------

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and

international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of

the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than

a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of

Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by

Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a

waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)



Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty:

----------------------------------------------

'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle

[against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The

Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar

agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle.

...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason,

and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)



Anti-Semitic Incitement:

------------------------

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)



'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have

accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money,

they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred

revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the

French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the

revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret

organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions -

which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies

and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ...

and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the

world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge

financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them

having their finger in it.' (Article 22)



'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet

expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have

finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they

will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out

in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)



'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the

circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over

the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped

for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.'

(Article 32)


Source- http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

Yei
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digs wrote:


supermalv wrote:


digs wrote:


drizza wrote:

http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

@Digs you remember on that Israel invades Hamas thread I posted an article about zionist creating fake foriegn websites supporting the west. That website you posted was a prime example the webname also the articles in it is all Pro West, Pro Israel arguements. In fact nothing is being stated on that website about Palestinian treatment. All the information on that website could have best came out from www.foxnews.com itself.


I still hold to what I said in the other thread, but I posted that web-site's article as a balance to the OP one. If this is to educate people on Palestine and Hamas then both sides should be represented. I support the Palestinian people, but I do not support Hamas and I view them as a terrorist organization (not because the US and others classify them as this, but because I classify them this way due to their actions and rhetoric). I am not anti-Palestinian or pro-Israeli military. I support the Palestinian people, and I politically (although not necessarily militarily) agree with Israel.


Then do you also politically agree with Israel's action for occupying what little left of Palestine's territory in West Bank and Gaza border (even till this day)?

How about Israel failing to release the territory they seized after the 6 days war? Even when against international law? (assuming OP's claim to this are correct)






......


There was absolutely no point to this topic, was there?

If Israel committed genocide tomorrow, you would still be supporting them and finding a way to justify it. That's the vibe I'm getting, all morality is put aside for Israel. Before, most people didn't alot of this info, so I can understand it, but still, even after knowing all this. seriously? It's like you ignored everything.

Norma Finkelstein disagrees with you, and his parents are Holocaust survivors. He hates Israel and Zionism and recognizes that they are evil. Is he crazy? No, it's just he is a moral person who understands the situation. You should have understood the situation by now, so I don't know what to tell you. It's like trying to explain that the Nazis were bad and the people they oppressed were the victims.
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digs wrote:



What the... are you seriously taking all those writings in the article at face value?? to me, it sounds seriously taken out of context. For one, I just read a news article which states that Hamas chief declared hamas's most important goal is the restoration of Palestine pre-1967 war and offering a very long term cease-fires about 10 - 20 years from now in exchange.

Second of all. This may be just my opinion but.. it really resembles, and carries the tone of 99% of the stuff out there written for Hamas's (and in some extreme cases, all muslim's) defamation. Heck, i could even go so far to say the person wrote it in behalf of Israel. Now I haven't check the source, but i will later on.

I seriously doubt most of the claim is true.
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When it comes down to it Israel is doing x100 times more killing then Hamas also Israel is under 65+ UN violations and Palestine under none. Just type in ISrael UN violations if you want to view them in search I already posted it too many times on different threads. Seriously I would take Hamas for someype of terrorist Organization if they actually did any type of significant damage to Israel and killing hundreads of civilians in less then 5 minutes like Israel does. But out of every oppression a resistance group forms Hamas is just that. Hezbollah is in the same category the west just wants to call them terrorist to cover up the true reason why they are fighting Israel because Israel comtinues to occupy them and build illegal settlements which none of these neo cons will address. Why is it ok for Israel to occupy land that isnt theirs, build homes in that occupied terrority and move people in? Had Palestinians done it would be all on our mainstream media. I wonder why the Jews who fought back the Nazis wasnt labeled terrorists?
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Posted 2/11/09 , edited 2/11/09
What Americans Can't See About Gaza
How Do People Keep Going?
By KATHY KELLY

People have asked me, since I returned from Gaza, how people manage? How do they keep going after being traumatized by bombing and punished by a comprehensive state of siege? I wonder myself. I know that whether the loss of life is on the Gazan or the Israeli side of the border, bereaved survivors feel the same pain and misery. On both sides of the border, I think children pull people through horrendous and horrifying nightmares. Adults squelch their panic, cry in private, and strive to regain semblances of normal life, wanting to carry their children through a precarious ordeal.

And the children want to help their parents. In Rafah, the morning of January 18th, when it appeared there would be at least a lull in the bombing, I watched children heap pieces of wood on plastic tarps and then haul their piles toward their homes. The little ones seemed proud to be helping their parents recover from the bombing. I'd seen just this happy resilience among Iraqi children, after the 2003 Shock and Awe bombing, as they found bricks for their parents to use for a makeshift shelter in a bombed military base.

Children who survive bombing are eager to rebuild. They don't know how jeopardized their lives are, how ready adults are to bomb them again.

In Rafah, that morning, an older man stood next to me, watching the children at work. "You see," he said, looking upward as an Israeli military surveillance drone flew past, "if I pick up a piece of wood, if they see me carrying just a piece of wood, they might mistake it for a weapon, and I will be a target. So these children collect the wood."

While the high-tech drone collected information,-- "intelligence" that helps determine targets for more bombing, --toddlers collected wood. Their parents, whose homes were partially destroyed, needed the wood for warmth at night and for cooking. Because of the Israeli blockade against Gaza, there wasn't any gas.

With the border crossing at Rafah now sealed again, people who want to obtain food, fuel, water, construction supplies and goods needed for everyday life will have to rely, increasingly, on the damaged tunnel industry to import these items from the Egyptian side of the border. Israel's government says that Hamas could use the tunnels to import weapons, and weapons could kill innocent civilians, so the Israeli military has no choice but to bomb the neighborhood built up along the border, as they have been doing.

Suppose that the U.S. weapon makers had to use a tunnel to deliver weapons to Israel. The U.S. would have to build a mighty big tunnel to accommodate the weapons that Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and Caterpillar have supplied to Israel. The size of such a tunnel would be an eighth wonder of the world, a Grand Canyon of a tunnel, an engineering feat of the ages.

Think of what would have to come through.


Imagine Boeing's shipments to Israel traveling through an enormous underground tunnel, large enough to accommodate the wingspans of planes, sturdy enough to allow passage of trucks laden with missiles. According to UK's Indymedia Corporate Watch, 2009, Boeing has sent Israel 18 AH-64D Apache Longbow fighter helicopters, 63 Boeing F15 Eagle fighter planes, 102 Boeing F16 Eagle fighter planes, 42 Boeing AH-64 Apache fighter helicopters, F-16 Peace Marble II & III Aircraft, 4 Boeing 777s, and Arrow II interceptors, plus IAI-developed arrow missiles, and Boeing AGM-114 D Longbow Hellfire missiles,

In September of last year, the U.S. government approved the sale of 1,000 Boeing GBU-9 small diameter bombs to Israel, in a deal valued at up to 77 million.

Now that Israel has dropped so many of those bombs on Gaza, Boeing shareholders can count on more sales, more profits, if Israel buys new bombs from them from them. Perhaps there are more massacres in store. It would be important to maintain the tunnel carefully.

Raytheon, one of the largest U.S. arms manufacturers, with annual revenues of around $20 billion, is one of Israel's main suppliers of weapons. In September last year, the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency approved the sale of Raytheon kits to upgrade Israel's Patriot missile system at a cost of $164 million. Raytheon would also use the tunnel to bring in Bunker Buster bombs as well as Tomahawk and Patriot missiles.

Lockheed Martin is the world's largest defense contractor by revenue, with reported sales, in 2008, of $42.7 billion. Lockheed Martin's products include the Hellfire precision-guided missile system, which has reportedly been used in the recent Gaza attacks. Israel also possesses 350 F-16 jets, some purchased from Lockheed Martin.

Think of them coming through the largest tunnel in the world.

Maybe Caterpillar Inc. could help build such a tunnel. Caterpillar Inc., the world's largest manufacturer of construction (and destruction) equipment, with more than $30 billion in assets, holds Israel's sole contract for the production of the D9 military bulldozer, specifically designed for use in invasions of built-up areas. The U.S. government buys Caterpillar bulldozers and sends them to the Israeli army as part of its annual foreign military assistance package. Such sales are governed by the US Arms Export Control Act, which limits the use of U.S. military aid to "internal security" and "legitimate self defense" and prohibits its use against civilians.

Israel topples family houses with these bulldozers to make room for settlements. All too often, they topple them on the families inside. American peace activist Rachel Corrie was crushed to death standing between one of these bulldozers and a Palestinian doctor's house.

In truth, there's no actual tunnel bringing U.S. made weapons to Israel. But the transfers of weapons and the U.S. complicity in Israel's war crimes are completely invisible to many U.S. people.

The United States is the primary source of Israel's arsenal. For more than 30 years, Israel has been the largest recipient of U.S. foreign assistance and since 1985 Israel has received about 3 billion dollars, each year, in military and economic aid from the U.S. ("U.S. and Israel Up in Arms," Frida Berrigan, Foreign Policy in Focus, January 17, 2009)

So many Americans can't even see this flood of weapons, and what it means, for us, for Gaza's and Israel's children, for the world's children.

And so, people in Gaza have a right to ask us, how do you manage? How do you keep going? How can you sit back and watch while your taxes pay to massacre us? If it would be wrong to send rifles and bullets and primitive rockets into Gaza, weapons that could kill innocent Israelis, then isn't it also wrong to send Israelis the massive arsenal that has been used against us, killing over 400 of our children, in the past six weeks, maiming and wounding thousands more?

But, standing over the tunnels in Rafah, that morning, under a sunny Gazan sky, hearing the constant droning buzz of mechanical spies waiting to call in an aerial bombardment, no one asked me, an American, those hard questions. The man standing next to me pointed to a small shed where he and others had built a fire in an ash can. They wanted me to come inside, warm up, and receive a cup of tea.

Kathy Kelly, a co-coordinator of Voices for Creative Nonviolence, is writing from Arish, a town near the Rafah border between Egypt and Gaza. Bill Quigley, a human rights lawyer and law professor at Loyola New Orleans and Audrey Stewart are also in Egypt and contributed to this article. Kathy Kelly is the author of Other Lands Have Dreams
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drizza wrote:

When it comes down to it Israel is doing x100 times more killing then Hamas also Israel is under 65+ UN violations and Palestine under none. Just type in ISrael UN violations if you want to view them in search I already posted it too many times on different threads. Seriously I would take Hamas for someype of terrorist Organization if they actually did any type of significant damage to Israel and killing hundreads of civilians in less then 5 minutes like Israel does. But out of every oppression a resistance group forms Hamas is just that. Hezbollah is in the same category the west just wants to call them terrorist to cover up the true reason why they are fighting Israel because Israel comtinues to occupy them and build illegal settlements which none of these neo cons will address. Why is it ok for Israel to occupy land that isnt theirs, build homes in that occupied terrority and move people in? Had Palestinians done it would be all on our mainstream media. I wonder why the Jews who fought back the Nazis wasnt labeled terrorists?



That's the problem, people like diggs have been conditioned by our government to be against Hamas/Palestinians and support Israel. Even if Hamas was bad, how the hell can you ignore what Israel has done? And Israel is the one provoking the Palestinians to fight back in the first place, so how can you automatically start talking about this issue by how bad Hamas is? It makes no sense, and I think it just shows how well people can be brainwashed or mislead by the government.
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Posted 2/12/09
wow...
Yei
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Posted 2/12/09

jhram101 wrote:

wow...


?

Is this new information that shocking?
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Yei wrote:


jhram101 wrote:

wow...


?

Is this new information that shocking?


not really.haha. it's just they'reso interesting to read..
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Posted 2/12/09 , edited 2/12/09
I dont believe Digs is ignorant but incredibly misinformed by our mainstream media especially if he believes the notion of Faux News being fair balanced and he is getting a good reporting on whats going on around the world. I found an incredible interview from Democracy now from a Former Speaker of the Israeli Parliment and Former Chair of the Jewish agency world zionist organization Avraham Burg is now one of Israels biggest critics. He also states which I agree with him victims are all over the world and the Jews cannot say, "Since we been through the Holocaust we have a monopoly of the suffering and thats it." Powerfull statement because the majority of the Israel sympathizers come on here and the first thing they say is, "The jews have been suffering for 1000 of years." As if they are the only human beings who had it hard.

He also states when he was protesting against the lebanon war the extreme right threw a hand grenade at them and he injured his right arm. If I can find that democracy now interview when another brave Israeli by the name of Neve (I forgot his last name) who is an Israel Professor who states, "There has been talks within Israel to take away citizinship for all those who dont agree with the government." Israel goes through great lengths to silence critics not only in their country but in ours to. The zionist also wants ways to silence debates on the internet to further keep people lost and supporting their way of thinking.

Here is the interview with the Israeli I was talking about Avraham Burg. I also want to note the majority of the ignorant people in the west still believe this is some kind of muslim progapagda when it is as clear as black and white when you can see what is wrong and the lies being fed to us. What can those ignorant people say now when home grown Israelis are also saying the same things we are saying? Also I want to note those who criticize Israel politicians at least we dont go all into the jewish religion and take quotes out of context to demonize jews as a whole like the west likes to do to the sheep. We just criticize Israel and the zionist pushing their agenda. People like this never gets interviewed in the west as usual because the sheep just might get a little more educated on the conflict.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FucDVJrd6p8 part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwI78EqqP4c part 2
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Watch the speech if you wanna have any right to say something about this issue.
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