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Palestine/Israel - Norman Finkelstein will explain
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Posted 4/4/09

Allhailodin wrote:


drizza wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


drizza wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


You really don't know much about this, do you? First of all, stealing a giant group of people's country, ethnically cleansing/massacring them in the process, and stealing all their land and homes tends to get people mad. That's what Israel did to become a country, why people have been hating on Israel since then is not a mystery.


Ok, fair enough, i'd be kinda pissed if that happened to me. I can see that



Okay, really, you need to really start understanding this situation properly. What do you mean "it's a war"? The Israel occupation of Palestine is a war? Or do you mean the recent conflict?


Look in a perfect world, in wars, no innocent people would die, hell in a perfect world there would be no wars, but since this is not a perfect world, wars happen, and they happen in such a way that innocent people tend to die, and sometimes in large numbers aka the holocaust. Innocent people die, thats just the way it is. people need to get over that. death and destruction are part of a war, war is not pretty, people need to get over that as well, so when you see things like the napam of veitnam and get all pissed off saying "oh thats horrible" pshh, get over it, thats how a war works ok, people die, painfully. sucks yeah, but deal with it. and frankly if you don't like what Israel is doing, why not just take over Israel and change it ? And yes you a 16 year old girl actually do have the power to do that if you wanted to. There are several ways that you could go about doing that.


Well because in the Holocaust they were deliberately targeting innocent civilians as in Israel case they say they are not. Israel was suppose to target hamas so how did 1300 civilian casualties die in that atempt? Why was the UN building which is source for palestinian aid and refuge bombed? Neighborhoods bombed, Hospitals bombed, Universities bombed and on top of that the illegal settlements. It is in your opinion I suppose ok for a country to illegally take land and build their settlements. Imagine you are living in your house and some random guy sets up walls inside your house and now claim that his territory. You cant even use your own bathroom because beyond that wall on ly israel citicizens can use. And this is inside your own damn property that is what is going on in Palestine. More then 500,000 settlers in living in Occupied territory. Now my question is Israel states that this is for security purposes so why the hell would allow civilians to live in territories so close to the enemy? Lol your telling a muslim/ non muslim to take over a jewish country are you serious? Lol there is no point for me to even elaborate on that sentence.

As Yei stated you really know nill about this topic and your showing how ignorant most Americans are on this subject as well.



Israel was suppose to target hamas so how did 1300 civilian casualties die in that atempt?
Easy, they also targeted civilians.


Why was the UN building which is source for palestinian aid and refuge bombed?
Because Israel didn't want to get the hamas people treated.


Neighborhoods bombed, Hospitals bombed, Universities bombed and on top of that the illegal settlements.
frankly i'd do the same thing if i was trying to take over another country,


It is in your opinion I suppose ok for a country to illegally take land and build their settlements. Imagine you are living in your house and some random guy sets up walls inside your house and now claim that his territory.
That's how it works yeah, when you want to expand your country, that's exactly what you do. Doesn't mean it's right, but that's what you do.


Now my question is Israel states that this is for security purposes so why the hell would allow civilians to live in territories so close to the enemy?
What's wrong with putting houses up near the border ? Its useable land, so why not use it ?


As Yei stated you really know nill about this topic and your showing how ignorant most Americans are on this subject as well.


I read that, and I don't doubt that Israel is the one at fault, everything Yei said makes perfect sense to me, but don't group me in with most Americans, most americans are complete ignorant fucktards who don't think for themselves and mindlessly conform to whatevers the biggest thing at the moment, so don't group me in with those retards, I read what Yei said, and I don't doubt it, But I don't really care, it doesn't concern me so why should I give a flying fuck about it ? See I tend to not about most things unless their staring me in the face. this isn't doing that, so why should I care ? It's not like I know anyone in those areas, so it's not my problem, and yes I am ignorant, every human being on earth is ignorant in some way, including you, so saying I wasn't ignorant would be a flat out lie. But then again most americans use the american media for news, so there obviously fucktards when it comes to shit like this, i however don't use the american media for news, i use the net, if im interested in something news worthy, which isn't often. So again, i believe what yei's saying but don't give a damn about the situation.


Well I am sorry I dont have that weak minded mentatilty and yes I will group you with that rest of the Americans because it is that same kind of thinking which gets us Bush after Bush after Bush. Those people who dont give a damn about what going on in our country and around the world which makes it easier for our goverments to do whatever and get away with whatever. I know you dont give a damn about Israel Palestine and you probably dont know about the billions of dollars we send to Israel even though our economy is dieing. You also probably dont know or even care about the hate that is being stirred up in the middle east. You mentioned 9-11 what if another happens it was your family who got killed due to hate how would you react? Still in that stupidly little ,"I dont give a damn mentatility as long as it is not me?" Weak minded thats all I have to say no wonder why this country is in shambles with people like you we will never have a change. No point in debating Israel Palestine with you no more because as stated you know nill about the subject stating it is ok to destroy civilian terrorties prove this as well. In a time of war what does civilians have to do with anything they are unarmed? After the war is over you occupy and steal land what does that do end the war or prolong it? I know the reason why you are ignorant about the topic beause like the rest of America we are spoon fed about how Israel is just this peacefull tiny jewish country and all of a sudden out the blue they just get attacked with no apperant reason. You dont question why our media is one sided toward Israel. You dont question why our country is weak when it comes to Israel. You dont question why AIPAC who been caught spying twice on the USA leaking important top secret information to Israel is still one of the most powerfull lobbies without any punishment occuring to them all. As long as you are happy everything is ok. I wonder if will still have that mentatilty once our economy / US dollar go to shit due to our corrupt government and world empire.

And please dont sit here and tell me to learn and except shit the way they are. If African Americans were to accept slavery and injustices upon them they would still be slaves. If we accepted Hitlers actions jews would still be locked up in concentration camps. If our founding fathers accepted the way Britain treated us there would be no America. But lets thank God they wasnt weak minded like you.


Billions is a small number when it comes to our ecomemy. If there sending a few billion dollars to Israel then, fine, its only a small amount of money anyway. And when it comes to war unarmed civilians are a great tool to use against the enemy, start slaughtering a few thousand unarmed civilians and you can turn the war in your favor rather fast. Great war tactic. Sure they didn't have anything to do with the way before it was decided that they get dragged into it, but now there a war tool. And I don't question why our media is one sided twards israel, because its our media, who the fuck believes what they say, their one sided about everything, any person who gets his news from the american media is a retard , go to the interweb, easier to do. Call my mentality weak minded if you want, but your just a fucktard who likes to bitch about the goverment, we got plenty of those, we don't need another one, sure the goverment is corrupt, what goverment isnt ? If you don't like it, overthrow the goverment and become a dictator. But if your gonna bitch about it and do nothing to stop it, then your just wasting your breath, your just another useless person who likes to bitch but does nothing about it. IF you don't like our goverment so much go get your own fucking country and live there. And our country is weak because it became sympathetic, a bad mistake. if we weren't sympathetic and just slaughtered anything that got in our way, we'd be a stronger country. It's how i'd do things if i had a country.


Lol dude your a damn joke seriously there are many people in our country who want to change it but they cannot get enough votes to do so because of the uneducated Americans brainwashed by our media or those like you who simply just doesnt give a damn. You see the reason why many simple minded Americans like you think this way is because you were lucky to be born in a country who has never had any wars on her soil yet. So we dont know what it is like to be in occupation, starved, infrastructure destroyed while everyone turns away. Billions is not a small amount when it comes to the economy are you insane? Was the 700 billion dollar bail out for wallstreet a small amount? What about Obamas stimulus was that a small amount? Do you even know how we come up with that money?? Many Americans like myself want to purge the corruption but you cant do that if the public is not educated. I am not going to move to know other country and start one just where the hell can I do that? Take the Israel approach and kick people out their land and act like you dont know why they are fighting you back? Is that what I should do? Lol our country is weak because we became sympathetic to who did we become sympathetic to the muslims because we still bombing the shit out of them? Dude you are soo far beyond ignorant it is funny. Also it is embarassing but many Americans think like you thus the wars overseas will never end and our economy will continue to decline.

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Posted 4/4/09 , edited 4/4/09

Yei wrote:

You could call it a war, but it technically isn't. It's just occupied people who are being oppressed, and a few of them fighting back. It's human nature to be bothered by these things, and it's a good thing. If no one was bothered by rape or torture or any horrible injustice, no one would think they were wrong and not many people would try to stop them, or just be against them. If no one cares, these things will get worse and the more people care, the less these things will be allowed to happen.


I don't think it's human nature to be bothered by these types of things, because if it was then why does it not bother me, or lots of other people ? Might have bothered me a little when i was younger, but i just said screw it and stopped caring. You should try it, makes your life a lot easier. Besides you can think "blah blah blah torture is wrong, rape is wrong, murder is wrong, abortion is wrong" all you want, its not going to do anything to stop them from happening, its far easier to let it happen and not concern yourself with it. The world is never going to be a moral place, it will never happen. so you should just say screw morals, i don't care, i'll do what needs to get done, any way it takes to get it done. If I didn't do things because i know that there wrong, i'd never get anything done, efficiency > morals, efficiency beats morals. So getting things done is more important then upholding morals. Maybe im the one at fault here, who knows. Maybe i'm just fucked up, again who knows.




And people do stop injustices and make a difference all the time, with organizations like Amnesty International or the Red Cross, etc., these organizations help other people, and they can do so because people care. Obviously we can't end all of the bad things, but we can do something. You know that saying, if you save one person, it's as if you've saved the whole world? If you stop being bothered by great injustices, it sort of takes away your morality. And if you are an immoral person who doesn't condemn what you know is wrong, what good does that do? It just makes you a horrible person.


Personally those organizations are wasting their time, money, and resources, they make make a small difference in some random place for a while, but they will never make a world wide difference with a lasting effect. they might make a world wide difference for a while, but then things will just go back to the way they were. Morality as you know it was invented by this useless thing called "religion" which was invented by man, oh and if your christain or whatever you are, have you actually read some of the morals for your religion, there more fucked up then torture and rape and murder, some om em even say rape, torture and murder is ok. I read one that said it was ok to sell my daugher into slavery(saying slavery is ok), and another that said any man with long hair deserves to be killed, (saying murder is ok) and so on. Oh hehe and yet another one said disobedient childeren are to get stoned to death (when you bludgeon them to death by throwing large rocks at them till they die) so don't shove morals into my face. I know what I think is right, and i know what i think is wrong. And I stand by what i think is right and what i think is wrong.



Aaaaand yet again, you don't understand what the Israel-Hamas situation is.


I know that your blaming israel for doing some random injustice against hamas,There are always 2 sides to any story. plus the american media, is making this look like its all hama's fault, its not, its israels fault. never use the american media for information.




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Posted 4/5/09 , edited 4/5/09

Allhailodin wrote:
I don't think it's human nature to be bothered by these types of things, because if it was then why does it not bother me, or lots of other people ? Might have bothered me a little when i was younger, but i just said screw it and stopped caring. You should try it, makes your life a lot easier. Besides you can think "blah blah blah torture is wrong, rape is wrong, murder is wrong, abortion is wrong" all you want, its not going to do anything to stop them from happening, its far easier to let it happen and not concern yourself with it. The world is never going to be a moral place, it will never happen. so you should just say screw morals, i don't care, i'll do what needs to get done, any way it takes to get it done. If I didn't do things because i know that there wrong, i'd never get anything done, efficiency > morals, efficiency beats morals. So getting things done is more important then upholding morals. Maybe im the one at fault here, who knows. Maybe i'm just fucked up, again who knows.


I wish I could do that, but that would take away everything good that is in human beings, caring, empathy, sympathy, etc. You can stop letting those things bother you, but you still have to acknowledge they are wrong and should be stopped, right?



Personally those organizations are wasting their time, money, and resources, they make make a small difference in some random place for a while, but they will never make a world wide difference with a lasting effect. they might make a world wide difference for a while, but then things will just go back to the way they were. Morality as you know it was invented by this useless thing called "religion" which was invented by man, oh and if your christain or whatever you are, have you actually read some of the morals for your religion, there more fucked up then torture and rape and murder, some om em even say rape, torture and murder is ok. I read one that said it was ok to sell my daugher into slavery(saying slavery is ok), and another that said any man with long hair deserves to be killed, (saying murder is ok) and so on. Oh hehe and yet another one said disobedient childeren are to get stoned to death (when you bludgeon them to death by throwing large rocks at them till they die) so don't shove morals into my face. I know what I think is right, and i know what i think is wrong. And I stand by what i think is right and what i think is wrong.


No, morals didn't come from religion. Religion is completely irrelevant and the only reason you hate it so much is cause you want to. It makes no sense to attack religion, it's too general of a term. If you don't like Christianity, okay, but you translate that into ALL religion being bad. And you don't even know what all the religions are, I can make up one right now that you would like. So you shouldn't attack religion in general, if you got a problem with some specific ones, well then deal with it.

Morality/ethics are what we as human beings feel as wrong. We feel bad when horrible injustice happens, when innocent people are tortured, when children are harmed etc., and this comes from empathy. Morals basically come from empathy, not religion. We wouldn't like being tortured, so it's not right to torture people. We wouldn't like to be killed for no reason, so murder is wrong. We wouldn't like to see our kids harmed, so that's wrong, etc. The ones that are debatable are the ones that don't necessarily come from empathy, like abortion. But the basic ones, don't torture, kill, rape, are all obvious.





I know that your blaming israel for doing some random injustice against hamas,There are always 2 sides to any story. plus the american media, is making this look like its all hama's fault, its not, its israels fault. never use the american media for information.


Yeah I'm blaming Israel for what it did in 1948 and how it has been treating the Palestinians since then. Like I said before, the Palestinians have made some mistakes, but everything they did is to be expected when a group of people are treated that badly. It's like saying the French Resistance vs the Nazis has 2 sides to the story. The French Resistance did do some bad things, but it's ridiculous to even compare them considering what the Nazis were doing.
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Posted 4/5/09 , edited 4/5/09

Yei wrote:

I wish I could do that, but that would take away everything good that is in human beings, caring, empathy, sympathy, etc. You can stop letting those things bother you, but you still have to acknowledge they are wrong and should be stopped, right?


Sure, you can stop letting them bother you but still acknowledge that their wrong. I think that some of these things are wrong, but don't let em bother me too much.


No, morals didn't come from religion. Religion is completely irrelevant and the only reason you hate it so much is cause you want to. It makes no sense to attack religion, it's too general of a term. If you don't like Christianity, okay, but you translate that into ALL religion being bad. And you don't even know what all the religions are, I can make up one right now that you would like. So you shouldn't attack religion in general, if you got a problem with some specific ones, well then deal with it.

Morality/ethics are what we as human beings feel as wrong. We feel bad when horrible injustice happens, when innocent people are tortured, when children are harmed etc., and this comes from empathy. Morals basically come from empathy, not religion. We wouldn't like being tortured, so it's not right to torture people. We wouldn't like to be killed for no reason, so murder is wrong. We wouldn't like to see our kids harmed, so that's wrong, etc. The ones that are debatable are the ones that don't necessarily come from empathy, like abortion. But the basic ones, don't torture, kill, rape, are all obvious.


Well most people's morals are based off of whatever religion they are a part of, there are a few people however who actually decide there own, thats what i was refering to. Nobody decided their own morals anymore, its already decided for them. But yeah, don't kill,rape, torture are basic morals.



Yeah I'm blaming Israel for what it did in 1948 and how it has been treating the Palestinians since then. Like I said before, the Palestinians have made some mistakes, but everything they did is to be expected when a group of people are treated that badly. It's like saying the French Resistance vs the Nazis has 2 sides to the story. The French Resistance did do some bad things, but it's ridiculous to even compare them considering what the Nazis were doing.


Fair enough.
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Posted 4/7/09

Allhailodin wrote:

Sure, you can stop letting them bother you but still acknowledge that their wrong. I think that some of these things are wrong, but don't let em bother me too much.

Well most people's morals are based off of whatever religion they are a part of, there are a few people however who actually decide there own, thats what i was refering to. Nobody decided their own morals anymore, its already decided for them. But yeah, don't kill,rape, torture are basic morals.


Cool, you're not so evil after all
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Posted 4/7/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

Sure, you can stop letting them bother you but still acknowledge that their wrong. I think that some of these things are wrong, but don't let em bother me too much.

Well most people's morals are based off of whatever religion they are a part of, there are a few people however who actually decide there own, thats what i was refering to. Nobody decided their own morals anymore, its already decided for them. But yeah, don't kill,rape, torture are basic morals.


Cool, you're not so evil after all


Pshh, i was never "Evil" in a traditional sense, i might be a tad bit "fucked up" tho, i tend to get that a lot from people.
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Posted 4/8/09

Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

Sure, you can stop letting them bother you but still acknowledge that their wrong. I think that some of these things are wrong, but don't let em bother me too much.

Well most people's morals are based off of whatever religion they are a part of, there are a few people however who actually decide there own, thats what i was refering to. Nobody decided their own morals anymore, its already decided for them. But yeah, don't kill,rape, torture are basic morals.


Cool, you're not so evil after all


Pshh, i was never "Evil" in a traditional sense, i might be a tad bit "fucked up" tho, i tend to get that a lot from people.


I just meant evil as in "lack of good." All you gotta do is be a nice person and have empathy and you should be alright.
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Posted 4/8/09 , edited 4/8/09

Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Yei wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

Sure, you can stop letting them bother you but still acknowledge that their wrong. I think that some of these things are wrong, but don't let em bother me too much.

Well most people's morals are based off of whatever religion they are a part of, there are a few people however who actually decide there own, thats what i was refering to. Nobody decided their own morals anymore, its already decided for them. But yeah, don't kill,rape, torture are basic morals.


Cool, you're not so evil after all


Pshh, i was never "Evil" in a traditional sense, i might be a tad bit "fucked up" tho, i tend to get that a lot from people.


I just meant evil as in "lack of good." All you gotta do is be a nice person and have empathy and you should be alright.


Bah, I'm not to empathetic, i'm more apathetic actually. But I am a nice person when I wanna be. But since I'm usually in a bad mood thats not too often, but frankly i don't give a shit about human beings, I wish we'd all die off in my life time, before we fuck up this planet even more, i wanna see another animal get a chance to evolve and gain some intelligence and hope it doesn't make the mistakes we've made.
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Posted 4/9/09
The ultra right-winger Benjamin Netahanyu will worsen the situation in Mid East even more further. I hope he prove me wrong.
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Posted 4/15/09 , edited 4/30/09
bump for ignorance
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