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Second Cold War
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65 / M / Croatia
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Posted 2/11/09
After fall of USSR, there were not any true superpowers in the world excluding US. Americans became world police, protecting their interests through out the world in name of justice and democracy: they won the cold war.
Yet is it really over? After 15 years of troubled times, oligarhs and corruption, new Russia, under Putin, seeks again its place in the world, and recognition as superpower. Yet their tactics changed with new times and situations in the world. They try to influence the world through economy and natural resources which Russia has in abundance, showing military power very rarely.

Russia has signed new contracts with Cuba. Their war ships were visiting Cuban harbors first time since fall of USSR.

They reacted swiftly when Ukraine started to steal their gas, showing that they can "freeze" the Europe if they want.

After the attack of Georgian army on Russian enclave, they responded mercilessly, winning the war in only few days without anybodys help.

The world still refuses to recognize Russia as resurrected mayor player on international stage. In Asia, they have lost all the influence they had. Eyes are now turned towards China and India. European economy and natural resources depends largely on Russia, but they are trying to lessen their influence by signing contracts for gas with north African countries.
(Why do EU leaders thing that it is more secure to have contracts with hostile Muslim nations with history of anti - western movements then with their neighbor?)

What is America doing in response?
Americans are committed to their interests in middle east, where they are fighting war with no end (democracy is not for everyone). But, are they only ones who are seeing the Russia as potential threat?

They are trying to enlarge NATO by adding new countries, all from former eastern block, thus lessening places of Russias historical influence. The real problem is that those countries fear Russia, but they trust her more then west - most of the people are against joining NATO plus they are not military ready to join it.

They are trying to build new rocked shield in countries of ex eastern block. The shield is supposed to be against the Iran missiles (which they dont have). Problem is: countries where the missiles are supposed to be are against it, Russia is against it. They are arguing that shield is threat to them. Well, maybe, but Pentagon officials say that the shield will be capable of destroying 1 in 1000 Russian rockets.

Many sources argue that gas crisis in Europe and war in Georgia were both orchestrated by US, to lessen Russian relationship with EU (which is the best since WW1), and to show the world they still can not be military trusted (Georgia).

So what do you think? Are we seeing isolated incidents, or is this the beginning of something much larger?

How should EU and US respond to Russia? Make it equal partner, and recognize its lost place as superpower or try to ignore it and circumvent it where they can?

Are there more events like this?

Resources for this are from International Herald Tribune and various Journals of International Relations. Ill try to find some of them on - line and link it here.
Yei
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Posted 2/11/09
Well, when the Russia-Georgia incident happened, they tried to make it look like Russia was the bad guy. So I guess that must mean the US is starting the campaign to get the people afraid/against Russia, and after Iran is taken care of, they'll start chipping away at Russia.

Hmm... Russia could be the last hope of defeating US fascism. I think there will be another cold war after a while, when the public gets brainwashed into thinking Russia is bad. But it'll take a couple years, unless they do another 9-11.
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Posted 2/11/09
as long as the economy improves in some way, idc.
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23 / M / Singapore
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Posted 2/11/09
The gas crisis and war in georgia orchestrated by US are just conspiracy. Well i found nothing wrong with Russia, they had been building up the economy for the past years since the fall of USSR under Putin. But their military presence in Venezuala does pose a huge risk for America
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26 / M / New York City, NY
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Posted 2/12/09
...time for me to bitch again about stupid posts.
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26 / M
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Posted 2/12/09
I think there will be a war against Israel with Iran, Russia, and other Arab nations banding against them. I believe this because there is a Biblical prophecy that in the end times Iran and Russia will have a military alliance and wage a war against Israel with some of their allies (it also says they will fail though). However, I think the war is not just going to be due to Iran and Russia's hate for Israel, but over oil. It has been found that Israel has a massive amount of oil in its borders. The company Zion Oil is developing a new technology to get at this oil. The problem is that they believe most of it to be about 15,000 meters under the surface (much deeper than normal oil wells), but once they hit it, Israel will be completely oil independent and have enough to supply much of the western world (taking that market from Arab countries and Russia). I think this is why they will go to war with them (among other reasons and current tensions). I think this war will happen in number of years. Right now Iran and Russia have a military arms treaty, with Russia selling weapons to Iran. Iran also promises to destroy Israel as part of their national goals.
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Posted 2/12/09 , edited 2/12/09

Yei wrote:

Well, when the Russia-Georgia incident happened, they tried to make it look like Russia was the bad guy. So I guess that must mean the US is starting the campaign to get the people afraid/against Russia, and after Iran is taken care of, they'll start chipping away at Russia.

Hmm... Russia could be the last hope of defeating US fascism. I think there will be another cold war after a while, when the public gets brainwashed into thinking Russia is bad. But it'll take a couple years, unless they do another 9-11.


Agreed Georgia invaded and killed innocent civilians so Russia responded and the USA as usual jumps to the aid of corrupt governments. Really USA is hypocrites because they accuse Russia response being too harsh but dont say anything about Israel. But the difference here was Georgia wasnt under any type of occupation nor had any aid being held from them. Then to add more fuel to the flame the US decides to build anti defence missles in Poland right next to Russia. I mean why are we provoking these people? Why do we want to keep these neo cons in power who want to keep this country in war even though our economy is suffering greatly. According to Ron Paul this event was already planned.

Lets all be greatfull that an Idiotic country like Georgia was not in NATO. Had those idiots been in NATO we would have had to help them fight Russia. I dont know what those idiots was thinking on taking on a super power like that out of the blue because Russia did absoutly nothing to them. This was all a stunt to get Georgia in Nato thankfully the Europeans didnt buy it.
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19 / M / Nowhere
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Posted 2/15/09
Russia bomb it
Posted 2/15/09 , edited 2/16/09
russia can't do anything with oil under $75 a barrel (atm & foreseeable future under $40).
even at $75 it's just keeping it's head above water (this goes double for iran, venezuela etc).
+ without the ukraine delivery of energy, and russia's naval base leased in the ukraine (which they are not renewing for russia). the ukraine litterally has putin by the balls. stick ukraine in nato - make russia behave.

unlike the usa, they can't borrow their way out of this global economic crisis - they are fucked.
their conventional military is joke. they need a complete overhaul.
sure they can push around a tiny pissant like georgia, but it showed russia as disorganized,
very outdated, with very low morale.

that's why putin had to send `peter the great` ship for a holiday cruise.
to show the world that they were not complete imbeciles.
the pentagon thought it was pretty funny actually.

do some research into what's going on inside russia now.
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24 / M / O.C. So.Cal
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Posted 2/15/09
i doubt it, obama is anti-war
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65 / M / Croatia
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Posted 2/16/09

drizza wrote:


Yei wrote:

Well, when the Russia-Georgia incident happened, they tried to make it look like Russia was the bad guy. So I guess that must mean the US is starting the campaign to get the people afraid/against Russia, and after Iran is taken care of, they'll start chipping away at Russia.

Hmm... Russia could be the last hope of defeating US fascism. I think there will be another cold war after a while, when the public gets brainwashed into thinking Russia is bad. But it'll take a couple years, unless they do another 9-11.


Agreed Georgia invaded and killed innocent civilians so Russia responded and the USA as usual jumps to the aid of corrupt governments. Really USA is hypocrites because they accuse Russia response being too harsh but dont say anything about Israel. But the difference here was Georgia wasnt under any type of occupation nor had any aid being held from them. Then to add more fuel to the flame the US decides to build anti defence missles in Poland right next to Russia. I mean why are we provoking these people? Why do we want to keep these neo cons in power who want to keep this country in war even though our economy is suffering greatly. According to Ron Paul this event was already planned.

Lets all be greatfull that an Idiotic country like Georgia was not in NATO. Had those idiots been in NATO we would have had to help them fight Russia. I dont know what those idiots was thinking on taking on a super power like that out of the blue because Russia did absoutly nothing to them. This was all a stunt to get Georgia in Nato thankfully the Europeans didnt buy it.


It may be because that every big country needs enemies and outside threats. It boosts unity, gives reason to have huge army and to spend huge amounts of money on weapon development.
What happened in georgia was really strange. There were some articles even in IHT saying that georgia had american intel and army advisors, but they were against the attack. (of course, source was "unnamed pentagon official").
Considering NATO: yup, if they were in NATO; now there would be war with Russia. Russians are in bad need of funds and modernization, but thousands of their nuclear rockets can still fly pretty well. So, I hope nations like that will never be in NATO in next 50 to 100 years.
Plus I have question about NATO: what is the purpose of NATO if every country in the world joins it, in the end? Haha, it will be like earth federation in gundam, but whats the point? Where is the enemy?
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65 / M / Croatia
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Posted 2/16/09

asamiueto wrote:

russia can't do anything with oil under $75 a barrel (atm & foreseeable future under $40).
even at $75 it's just keeping it's head above water (this goes double for iran, venezuela etc).
+ without the ukraine delivery of energy, and russia's naval base leased in the ukraine (which they are not renewing for russia). the ukraine litterally has putin by the balls. stick ukraine in nato - make russia behave.

unlike the usa, they can't borrow their way out of this global economic crisis - they are fucked.
their conventional military is joke. they need a complete overhaul.
sure they can push around a tiny pissant like georgia, but it showed russia as disorganized,
very outdated, with very low morale.

that's why putin had to send `peter the great` ship for a holiday cruise.
to show the world that they were not complete imbeciles.
the pentagon thought it was pretty funny actually.

do some research into what's going on inside russia now.


Actually, their stock exchange was closed two weeks ago, it almost fell apart. Their plan to rise as worlds energy savior backfired with low oil prices. They are trying to regain their influence amongst myriad little states around black sea. Making strong ties in south america is one of their goals. (Im talking about Peru). With fall of serbia, they lost last ally in balcan (my neighborhood), and possibility to have exit to adriatic sea. (croatian coast, actually - monte negro coast is so hilly they have only 1 harbor).
In Russia, people are grateful to Putin coz he ended great thefts (or there was nothing to steal anymore), and he put bunch of oligarhs in prison. They are still distrustful towards their government, but it is not that bad as before - they are experiencing drastic rise in nationalism and pagan faiths as church is losing their influence. No foreigner is safe against their neo - nazis. (unless you have slavic features).
Their military industry is still very competative, but not well known among western nations, where european distributors have upper hand (mainly german tanks and french rifles)
In the end, I would not underestimate putin - guy was KGB, and he probably knows more about inner political workings then most diplomats, coz he was privy to bunch of secrets and scandals and god - knows - what - else.
And the last - they are slavic. dont underestimate them :D
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65 / M / Croatia
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Posted 2/16/09

LemonyPanda wrote:

i doubt it, obama is anti-war


Well, he will not go to war with them, here it is more question of soft power. Will he finance projects and countries that are against russians influence, thus engaging in cold war (which was war of espionage and who - will - push - the red - button more then anything else).
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65 / M / Croatia
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Posted 2/16/09

leviathan343 wrote:

...time for me to bitch again about stupid posts.


Thank you for your feedback.
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26 / M / New York City, NY
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Posted 2/16/09

blancer wrote:


leviathan343 wrote:

...time for me to bitch again about stupid posts.


Thank you for your feedback.


Should I post a conspiracy theory next time or some blatant ignorance about economics?
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