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Post Reply Abortion
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digs 
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24 / M
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Posted 5/10/07
I think that if the mother is going to die from the baby, then she can have an abortion. Because there isn't a point in letting 2 people die. I still think rape victims should not have an abortion. You can't base things on "ifs." the kids can still live a normal life, and if he is depressed then he should be the one who takes his life, not his mom (I am strongly opposed to suicide) the child is innocent. just because it is a product of rape doesn't mean that it deserves to die.

and if human life can be summed up if it should be allowed to live or not based on financial status, then that is putting a price on life. Life is a precious thing, and we should protect it.
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28 / M / San Jose, CA, USA
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Posted 5/10/07
Hmmhmm, here's an opinion transcending legality and technical bio-whatnot:

-Ultimately, the decision to act or not act is left with the individual, in this case the pregnant woman. If said woman wants an abortion that badly, it's going to happen, within legal parameters or not (drugs, poison, soda cans, coat hangars, vacuum cleaners), regardless of what society around her says.

-Killing or not killing, if governments so wished it, they could just ban the process of abortion regardless of whatever the hell stage of development the unborn child is in. Doesn't mean it's going to stop 'em from happening, people will just turn to the black market system of trade, or perform aforementioned gruesome methods.

Aside from that, barring all unique circumstances including rape, child-abuse, economics, war, a future with outcomes NO ONE knows, I still stand firmly by my original stance:

-if it's a conception due to screw-up misuse of contraceptives and ill planning between partners, it's their own damn fault. However, no one can tell them to not have an abortion, but it's in my opinion a terrible excuse just to avoid responsibility.

-The only legal restraints from performing a clinical abortion are restricted to whenever period the medical world deemed was the appropriate definition for life.

-Unless we're directly affected by the circumstance, there's nothing more to do other than play the self-righteous card and shunshun atop our thrones of morality.

Right or wrong, bottom line: It's a goddamn cruel world, and people will inevitably do things we don't like. Accept it or not, it doesn't really matter unless you miraculously have the power to enforce it.
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22 / F / Jupiter
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Posted 5/10/07

dkaceblaze wrote:


makoto224 wrote:

oh, i have something to add. as the use of contraception goes up, the rate of people with stds goes up too. they are connected. because contraception was legalized, it led to abortion being legalized. also as abortion rates go up, crime, domestic violence goes up, etc. did you know that before contraception was on the market, there were only two stds? now there are more than 50. i hope that abortion is illegalized. in some countries, children under two months are being killed (it is abortion's next horrible step((unless abortion is stopped, that is likley to happen in more places)) because they are not "human" yet or dont have "souls" or "are not fully aware of themselves yet" that is completley unreasonable to kill them because of that! just because we cant ask the babies (in and out of the womb) if their death hurts or not, does not give us any right to kill them. the right to life takes priority over all other rights.

there are three reasons why people defend abortion:
1. they are ignorant- they do not know that it is a human life.
2. they know the truth but do not want to believe- they are stubborn for any reason.
3. they know and they don't care- self explanitory.
thats it. you prolife people made some real great arguements! i'll be sure to learn from them so i can use them! buh bye now!


Wow you should just stop really. You are relating completely unrelated things. The crime rate has nothing to due with abortion rate. Nor does the use of contraception promote the spread of stds. And check your history Stds have been around a long time syphillus,(sp?) gonerea, clamidia anf herpes have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. One of the ceasars of rome, I think Nero died of syphillus.

Here's thre reasons why you are the ignorant one.

1. People make the argument because they do care. Just more about the lives that are already in progress rather than one that has not yet come to be. And what about quality of life? Your saying it's better for a baby to grow up in even the worst possible circumstance rather than be aborted? A child of two crack heads should be brought ino this world? So one day our prize parents get it into there head that there pretty little daughter could be used to get them drugs if they let the dealer fuck her. So then a baby is brought into the hospital and left by the parents who don't want to get busted and the doctors have to do emergency surgery to stop the internal bleeding that was caused when the wall between her tiny vagina and her anus was destroyed. This is ok by your book right? Because she had the right to that life. (BTW: TRUE STORY)

2. Have you ever even heard the word Zygote? There is time between conception and life. It take time for the fetus to become anything other than a mass of cells. It's not the best comparision but for a short period of time it's more like a growing fungus than a person. So which life matter?

3. I am glad you live in a black and white world. You should try living in the real one occasionally. If you want to find the stubborn one look in the mirror.


well, i'm glad i live in the "black and white" world (your definition of it) that i do live in now (believing that abortion is wrong). And the question is, "is abortion moral" meaning "is abortion right or wrong." telling stories does not give you the answer. do you think that that girl would have been happier if her child had been aborted? lets not forget all the emotional and physical pain that women go through from abortions. what do you mean the time between conception and life? life starts at conception. do you think that all of a sudden the fetus just becomes a human? do you believe that the fetus is a human? if so, then don't you believe that the child has the right to live? i apologies that i messed up my information on how many stds there were before contraception was put on the market, even so, contraception does all most nothing for the spread of stds. you can get these diseases from lower abdominal to mid thigh and above contact. since then, the diseases have been spreading rapidly and there have been more and more of them.
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18 / F / SDF-1
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Posted 5/10/07
This topic makes me wanna go down to the abortion rally and pick up chicks. Cuz you know they're fucking.
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Posted 5/10/07
Here’s another thing to look at on the matter: People who use abortion excessively and as a form of birth control, should they be forcibly sterilized by law?

I don’t know. Thinking it over I’m probably against it from the secular point of view in which I use for analysis’ of such matters for political reasons. (So I would vote against it.)

However, on a personal level, taking not only my religious beliefs but also my sense of right-and-wrong as a Human being, I would probably support it.

Now, as far as when a child becomes a Human, this is a hard topic to debate. Some may say it’s ultimately just a matter of perception, but how far can you go with that?

Let me explain. Pretty much the instant of conception a child (or aspiring child) immediately has the entire genetic code that is unique to and required for Human beings. Thus, for me, it’s a Human being. Now you might say “Not until it develops fully” but how far can you take that? Not until it has a heart? Not until it’s out of the womb? Not until it’s a grown man/woman who’s fully developed? For me the stage of development is regardless for Human life. If you decided what human life was on the basis of stage of development then would it be right to kill a toddler because he/she has not fully developed into an adult?

Now, for the father’s rights: The law should not be viewed on the matter of an individual. It should be held from a neutral point of view that does not take sex into account. The laws of nature in circumstances like these should not be viewed or create a bias judge behind the law. Just because woman are favored in this sense of nature does not mean that women should have greater rights than men. If we go and do things like this than we can assume that the laws of nature favor men for work that requires great strength. So should employers hire men above women for such jobs?

@Gopherd: I believe in evolution, and I’m a moralist, but I don’t quite see how that’s hypocritical… Care to elaborate?

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Posted 5/10/07
Individual rights up to a certain months...for example first, second and third trimesters needs to be taken into consideration. The development of the fetus is continously changing and growing everyday, so before deciding to abort that has to be taken into consideration. Also if the health of the mother is in serious danger, than that is a different story.
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24 / F
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Posted 5/10/07
question?

abortion is the take a big needle/thingy and stick it up the vajayjay and start pokin around until a fetus come out right?

i wasnt implying anything i just wanted to make sure.
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24 / M
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Posted 5/10/07

sugerbaybee wrote:

question?

abortion is the take a big needle/thingy and stick it up the vajayjay and start pokin around until a fetus come out right?

i wasnt implying anything i just wanted to make sure.


Depends what kind of abortion...

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28 / M / San Jose, CA, USA
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Posted 5/10/07
Heh, referring back to the firrrssttt post listing an example of men killing a pregnant woman and receiving two counts of murder:

Obviously, a wrong had already been done. But were two 'human beings' technically killed? What is a human being? Cognitive thought? Bipedal movement? Consciousness?

Sooo... men who kill pregnant women, in effect, kill quantity 1) woman and quantity 1) fetus when charged for murder. I don't think embryos count as a second murder either. There's gotta be some very elaborate definition in the murder statute. I would also assume that most courts would agree that to qualify as a human being for the generic accusation of murder, you kind of need to have been uh.. birthed.

As for legality, I'm highly certain the two-fer-one deal exists just to increase the punishment as both a deterrant and punitive example to those who would consider similar criminal activity.

Anyways, carry on.
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Posted 5/10/07
Very wrong azn. Humans have a specific set of genetics that is unique to humans and is present immediately after conception. This being said, scientifically speaking, an unborn child is in fact a human. Now, opinions may vary if you look at this say religiously, but secularly when logic is put into the equation a fetus is in fact a Human. In the court of law it has right, but apparently not in the medical field for some reason...
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Posted 5/10/07

SeraphAlford wrote:


sugerbaybee wrote:

question?

abortion is the take a big needle/thingy and stick it up the vajayjay and start pokin around until a fetus come out right?

i wasnt implying anything i just wanted to make sure.


Depends what kind of abortion...



there are different kinds?
7605 cr points
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28 / M / San Jose, CA, USA
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Posted 5/10/07

SeraphAlford wrote:

Very wrong azn. Humans have a specific set of genetics that is unique to humans and is present immediately after conception. This being said, scientifically speaking, an unborn child is in fact a human. Now, opinions may vary if you look at this say religiously, but secularly when logic is put into the equation a fetus is in fact a Human. In the court of law it has right, but apparently not in the medical field for some reason...


oh, i wasn't doubting the basic building blocks of human beings. it's been quite awhile since i've taken a biology class, so i won't spew jargon pretending i'm knowledgeable in that field. i was most speaking from a legal point of view, since murder is often synonymous to extremely unlawful criminal activity.

also found a link of legal reference:

http://www.answers.com/topic/unborn-victims-of-violence-act



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20 / F / Singapore
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Posted 5/11/07
its evil and wrong. totally un-natural! its killing a human being! how would the poor guy in the tummy feel?? oh n its disgusting! extracting the baby from the body....
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Posted 5/11/07
Good link, Azn. And uh, okay I see.

And yes people. There are many different kinds.
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Posted 5/11/07

digs wrote:

I think that if the mother is going to die from the baby, then she can have an abortion. Because there isn't a point in letting 2 people die. I still think rape victims should not have an abortion. You can't base things on "ifs." the kids can still live a normal life, and if he is depressed then he should be the one who takes his life, not his mom (I am strongly opposed to suicide) the child is innocent. just because it is a product of rape doesn't mean that it deserves to die.

and if human life can be summed up if it should be allowed to live or not based on financial status, then that is putting a price on life. Life is a precious thing, and we should protect it.




The decisions that we make in life are all based on the "ifs". Your examples are covered with "ifs". You cannot make a good decision if you don't weigh out the "ifs". Doing so just insinuate that you are either ignorant, careless, irresponsible or mentally incapable of thinkng critically. With that said, do consider the IFS of life before discrediting those who are pro-choice.

- Who will take care of the baby if a mother can't even support herself? How will that baby survive in this world?

- What if the mother is mentally or physically unfit to raise a child?

There had been rape cases where the victim became pregnant and bore the child and could not even look at it because it reminds her of her rapist and it brings back the shame and the pain that she had to endure. There had been numerous cases where a mother infected with the AIDS virus end up getting pregnant. Non-supportive fathers are also quite the trend especially today and plenty of women get no support.

These are just extreme "if" cases but IF it happens to you, what would you do? Only under such circumstances do I think that abortion should become a choice available to a woman.

Aborting a baby is a very hard and life-changing decision to make. It might even be one of the hardest decisions ever because the woman will suffer either way. Would you rather live life knowing that you murdered a life and be ostracized until you die? Or can you bring a life into this world knowing you will face life-changing obstacles and the child may suffer undeniably if under certain circumstances?

I think abortion is generally bad and shouldn't be done but I still believe that the woman should be given a choice only if under extreme circumstances.

In the end we can all try to impose our own personal opinions about what is right or wrong but you will not be as rash to say anything if you became pregnant by accident.
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