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Post Reply Abortion
1526 cr points
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29 / M / New York
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Posted 5/9/07

digs wrote:

And a fetus is also innocent. It hasn't done anything wrong. Just because it can't make desicions for itself doesn't mean that others have the right to say that its not worthy of life.


I will totally agree with you on the fetus being innocent, but because it can't make decisions for itself is the whole reason why the mother has to make the decision for it, or the courts or whatever. Can't just go, up oh well, the fetus can't talk so we'll wait until it's 5 to figure this thing out.

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28 / M / San Jose, CA, USA
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Posted 5/9/07
I've heard gruesome accounts of women using shaken soda cans to do self-performed abortions. Now that's just damn wrong.
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24 / M
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Posted 5/9/07
If you read the bible properly it doesn’t say women are inferior (or maybe the Catholic one does.) It says they have a specific job, and men have a specific job. It just so happens that because the philosophies of man has changed people have come to think the job that is given to men is more glorified than that given to women. I like the Spartan’s theory on all this. Men who die in a glorious way are no greater than women who die giving birth. A women’s battle is in giving birth….

Deceptive is, however, correct. Bringing religion into this debate is counter productive. Digs is also right. Bringing emotion into what is supposed to be an intelligent debate is immature.


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29 / M / New York
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Posted 5/9/07

Chaoskeap wrote:
well I think a girl/women should choose what happens to her body If they don't want to have the baby they don't have to. Some people shouln't have kids tho my brother-in-laws girlfriend has a kid and she is a real bad mom horrible. I still don't think abortions a good idea no but I can't try to understand what is or will be going through someones head in that situation. All I know is me and I wouldn't be able to go through an abortion all I would think of was killing a baby.



Exactly, the point is that the mother should have the choice of what happens to and inside her body. Not the courts, not the bible and not anyone else.
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25 / M / Bristol UK
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Posted 5/9/07
hmm consideringwhat abortion was like in the 60s it has come a long way in safety. Tbh i think abortion is ok cos i have been brought up to be very liberal. I have never been baptised or forced to go to church. I went a few years but i started question alot more by the age of 13 i was atheist and i mainly used church as a way to meet ates who i didnt gt to see much as they were at diffrent schools.

But i think with the time that we live in now allowing abortion should continue as alot of people have benefited from it
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digs 
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24 / M
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Posted 5/9/07
But does the baby belong to her? your talking like the fetus is her property. So then was slavery a good thing?
5346 cr points
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25 / M / In his very own h...
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Posted 5/9/07
Two Things;

1 I hate death.

2 I'm pro choice.

I believe that abortions should be allowed to be carried out up to the 22nd week (the point at which a fetus can survive outside the womb, though this limit is being lowered by medical advancement)
This is in accordance with the current British law. I would agree that abortion is not a nice thing to happen, however I believe that in some situations it is the "right" choice.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1254767,00.html

If;
The child would be unwanted, and thus unloved.
The parents have a genetic disorder an, on finding that their child has the same, or another disorder choose not to inflict life upon it.
The child was the result of a rape or subsequently failed relationship.
The parents feel that they would not be able to care for the child.

This always, of course, requires the mothers decision.

There has been the argument that children could be given up for adoption. However children who are adopted often live less fulfilled lives than other children who are brought up by their families (Guardian Weekly). I personally would not like to find out that I was abandonned by my parents, and that the people who had brought me up were not relations to me... however much I love life!
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24 / M
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Posted 5/9/07
WHY? Why does the mother have the right? Where is A. The babies HUMAN rights? And B. The fathers?! As long as the father is actively a part of the pregnancy (Taking care of his wife, and carrying as much of the burden as possible) then he should also have a choice in rather or not the thing gets to live. The child cannot present rather or not it wants to live, but we can assume that nobody is born suicidal!

I think the only time abortion is okay is if we can be 100% sure that The babey will die anyway and the mother will die also if she gives birth to it. However, we're never 100% sure so...

EDIT


There has been the argument that children could be given up for adoption. However children who are adopted often live less fulfilled lives than other children who are brought up by their families (Guardian Weekly). I personally would not like to find out that I was abandonned by my parents, and that the people who had brought me up were not relations to me... however much I love life!


...*Sigh* You assume that, how many people do you really know that were put up for adoption? They go through a brief depression and then get over it 99% of the time. Besides, a lot of children not put up for adoption live less fulfilled life than children who are. So... Anyway, if you go by this theory, then do you think also we should go and slaughter every orphan because he/she won’t live a fulfilled life? Life is life, fulfilled or not it’s precious. That’s my opinion.
2925 cr points
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25 / M / Bristol UK
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Posted 5/9/07
the father doesnt have to go through the pain of carrying something unwanted inside them for 9 months and then have the pain of giving birth.

And if were gonna have rediculous poinjts like the slaveyr one. What if that baby that might have been aborted isnt. It grows into a mad tyranical leader that kills people at his own will. Is that ok. (ignore this point it is rediculouse im just using it to highlight how brinding slavery was stupid)
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28 / M / san diego, califo...
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Posted 5/9/07

digs wrote:

But does the baby belong to her? your talking like the fetus is her property. So then was slavery a good thing?


i love things like this.

let me try one.

you are saying abortion should never happen? since the baby can't think for itself we should assume it wants to live. killing is wrong!

in that case you are saying we should let retards who kill people live. that animals going on killing sprees should live. that all war is wrong!
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digs 
38050 cr points
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24 / M
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Posted 5/9/07
But the father played a role in having the baby. 50% of its genes are his.

Pain is part of life. Learn to deal with things.

there is a difference. the fetus has done nothing wrong. In all the cases u mentioned people have done something bad. The fetus is 100% innocent.
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28 / M / san diego, califo...
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Posted 5/9/07
i'm not being immature really. its just you are passing off like birth is nothing. its like ripping off a bandaid. having a baby is no big deal. you don't want it, just wait nine months put it up for adoption where it will more than likely get shit treatment and more than likely never grow up with a family.
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digs 
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24 / M
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Posted 5/9/07
Who says that the man isn't going to take care of the baby? And even so, I know a lot of people who were raised by single mothers and their kids turned out fine. They never wanted to die just because they were an unplanned pregnancy or that their fathers walked away from them.
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25 / M / In his very own h...
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Posted 5/9/07

SeraphAlford wrote:

WHY? Why does the mother have the right? Where is A. The baby's HUMAN rights? And B. The father's?! As long as the father is actively a part of the pregnancy (Taking care of his wife, and carrying as much of the burden as possible) then he should also have a choice in rather or not the thing gets to live. The child cannot present rather or not it wants to live, but we can assume that nobody is born suicidal!

I think the only time abortion is okay is if we can be 100% sure that The babey will die anyway and the mother will die also if she gives birth to it. However, we're never 100% sure so...

...*Sigh* You assume that, how many people do you really know that were put up for adoption? They go through a brief depression and then get over it 99% of the time. Besides, a lot of children not put up for adoption live less fulfilled life than children who are. So... Anyway, if you go by this theory, then do you think also we should go and slaughter every orphan because he/she won’t live a fulfilled life? Life is life, fulfilled or not it’s precious. That’s my opinion.


I believe that the Mother has the right.
Yes, the father if he is still a supporting part of the relationship also has the right to choose, but if he's there [and trustworthy enough to bring up a kid well] then I doubt the mother would abort without telling him, therefore he would get a say in the matter.
The baby is in the care of the mother, she can go and stab it with a knitting needle if she wants to abort, or she can go to a doctor and have it done nice and safely. Here it's the idea of "care" that matters, I believe that the mother is the child's proxy and has the right to make the choice she believes is best for the child and her, it's not as if the child can decide for itself.

I just have to love that use of generalizations. I cannot argue against the "fact" that "life is sacred"... I believe that life should be preserved, but that above that quality of life should be preserved.
There is the idea of the DALY (Disability Adjusted Life Year). This considers how a certain operation will help or hinder a person or people. It is the idea that the more years you can add to the persons life in which the quality of life is "good" is the important thing.
Let's take a hypothetical pregnant 20 year old. She is poor, as is her boyfriend, they are in colledge and don't have full-time jobs. If she had the baby they would both need to quit colledge to care for it (financially as well as physically). Therefore the quality of life drops for the mother and father, and the prospective child. If the 20 year old aborts, more Dalies! (n.b. the DALY is a WHO approved method for deciding who to give that elusive single kidney transplant or whatever)
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digs 
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24 / M
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Posted 5/9/07
Its like no one listens to what i am saying. You cannot use an "if" as justification for abortion.
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