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Post Reply Who's Death was the Most Necessary and Least Necessary?
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Posted 9/1/09

infinitycubed wrote:


shivre wrote:


infinitycubed wrote:


shivre wrote:


infinitycubed wrote:


shivre wrote:


infinitycubed wrote:


shivre wrote:


infinitycubed wrote:


shivre wrote:


infinitycubed wrote:

Here I quote shivre's last reply from above:

Do you think that through oppression or state negotiations, war could be ended forever or world peace would be achieved?
i think not....

men never stop wanting anything....

Even today....
though we are having state unions or any association or organizations or whatever thing you're gonna call it which imposes the unity of countries all over the world.... cold wars and wars do occur.....

I believe in the saying,"the only permanent thing here on earth is change". A state will not remain at peace forever....
Oppression or state union, the result it would bring will eventually wear off as time pass by....


Going back.......

Possibly framing Euphie and shooting her caused Zero's popularity to reach an all time high
you already said it, Zero's popularity peak was after shooting Euphie. As far as i could remember, we are arguing about when was it, disregarding the fact if it descend or ascend.... it doesn't matter, anyway.

Regarding the story you have made....
it impressed me....
i think it would be a good catch if the R2 would be remade.

but there is one tiny problem....
Charles is no God, he can possibly do brainwashing, but the part in which he is giving Euphie extraordinary abilities.... impossible
And I cannot think of how, Euphie's character would react to that?
And what would be her contribution to the war between lelouch and schneizel?


Human Nature.....

What do you think is reason why some things are regarded evil?
My answer: It is because, people think so....

If the people of Japan think that the oppression done by the Britannians are good, would they revolt?
Everything just depends on one's state of mind or one's own point of view....

If one thinks that he is being taken advantage, he would definitely fight....
but if he thinks that he is benifitting, he would definitely support.....

no thing is really and completely evil....
Remember what Athrun had once said.... "Wars occur because men has different ways of achieving one goal"
All of us aim peace but we have different ways on how we are going to achieve it....
Men are just doing what they think is right....


And there is no man here on earth that would like he, himself to be called evil....



On your last paragraph....
it is true that Charles had survived the hatred of the people around him.... and it is because he has strong personality..... anyway, he doesn't need approval for when the Ragnarok succeed he won't need to mind them....

To Euphemia.....
I can see that you are a great fan....
But if you are to write a story.... you should consider one's character.... in order to have consistency at the story and to keep the character's pesonality solid and distinct...
As I view Euphie's character in series .... I think that she is the type of character which won't be able to stand the hatred of the person around her....
So it is better that she rest in peace
or change her character a bit and she will survive.....


Beginning of Infinitycubed's reply:

I didn't mean to suggest that Charles would personally rebuild Euphie and brainwash her as an assassin.

I was suggesting that as in The Bionic Woman, Ghost in the Shell, Gunslinger Girl, or a host of other cyborg stories, the political leader would have his mad, or at least rather bad, scientists, doctors, technicians, etc. rebuild people with greater strength and speed to serve as assassins, and brainwash them so that second, assassin personalities would take over their bodies when the secret codes were used on them. And perhaps they would also, somehow, make their super assassins super resistant to injuries and able to revive from seeming death, to protect their investment of time, money and effort. Charles may be a little displeased to hear that his assassins are not likely to get killed permanently in his service, but consoles himself that most of their real personalities will feel highly ashamed and guilty if they ever find out what they have been made to do.

About Euphemia bearing the hostility of those around her, I heard that in the Zero Requiem Lelouch revealed that he made Euphemia order the Fuji Massacre. Thus Euphemia would no longer be hated by the world after about a year.

And I think it would be very hard for those around Euphemia, those whose hostility would be the most painful for her, to keep on hating her after many weeks or months of constant contact with her normal personality.

And of course, in different possible plot lines Euphie might be locked up in a Japanese prison guarded by fierce Black Knights, kept in seclusion in Britannia and often visited by a few people who love her, sent on a space mission which will last thousands of years but will only seem like a year or two to her due to time dilation and/or suspended animation, returning to an Earth where nobody hates her anymore, or on the run with Suzaku, being the most wanted fugitive in the world, etc. etc. All with her being loved or hated in different degrees by the people around her.




Oh, I see....
I have mistaken you....
sorry....

But if that would be the situation....
I see code geass as more on science....
the mystery and fantasy brought by the idea of geass will be vague....

Why not make Euphie the same as C.C and V.V?
I think that would be better....

Just suggesting....



Actually I am thinking about both at the same time. I have just about decided to write a series of novels about Euphemia de Romania, who lives in an alternate universe where Britain was part of the Roman Empire and after it became an independent sub Roman realm the rulers claimed to be successors Constantine III, the usurper from Britain, and thus Roman Emperors, as some historians have suggested that they did. You could call them (North) Western Roman Emperors.

And this North Western Roman Empire survives until about the present, or about the date of code Geass, and Euphemia de Romania is a princess of it, a daughter of Emperor Caroleus I guess. I intend them as books for children, especially the one's about Euphie's childhood, but interesting for adult science fiction and fantasy readers too, and with fans of Code Geass who will notice the inspiration being a third and smaller market.

So when the Lelouch-equivalent character gives Euphie the geass command to kill the Japaneses and she resists as no one has since geass's first dawning, the geass (which no doubt will have a different name) keeps increasing exponentially the geass energy being used to try to subdue her. As geas energy which could power the world's normal usage for days and months and years, and decades and centuries and thousands and millions of years is poured into trying to cnquere Euphei's won't power, some of it leaks and is adsorbed by Euphie, and some geass mechanism thinks that she is being given gieass powers and makes her a gess user. And as more energy is poured into defeating her and more of it leaks, Euphie is bumped up to geass giver like CC, and then to the next stage after that, which nobody has ever seen before, and then to the next stage after that, and so on.

And Euphie's new geass powers begin to drain away the geass energy being used against her and store it for future use, and the geass has to increase the energy flow even more rapidly to take over Euphemia and keep her under control. Until finally almost all the world's geass energy which would have lasted for billions of years of normal usage has been used up or else is stored by Euphie's geass powers, and she breaks free of the geass command when only a small supply is left. for geass users and geass givers.

So Euphemia is more than a geass giver when Lleouch shoots her and may have a gess giver's resurrection powers, or perhaps her geass powers quickly turn her into a geass giver when she is shot.

Then one book or books will take place in an alternate universe in which Chalres and VV recognize Euhphie's new geass powers and send her to the geass directorate for study once she reives from death.. There it is disovered that she can giver herlsef any geass power she wnts to, use it as long as she wants and then get rid of it, and she can choose geass pwoers and give them to anyone for as long as she wants and then take them away.

I hear that the geaas directorate had an army of children being trained to use their geass powers for some sinister purpose. How could VV have given the geass powers he wanted to those children? If he asked the super geassified Euphemia to do so that might explain the situation.

And when the Black Knights come to massacre everyone in the Geass Directorate Euphemia simply makes everyone there a temporary geass giver so they will come back to life soon after being killed. And all the people there become her followers in gratitude.

And when Lleouch hears about this he decides he doesn' t have to worry about fixing all the world's problems forever with the Zero Requiem, that soon Euphemia will will be able to change and modify his settlement of affairs the ways she wants to. And perhaps he decides he'd better hurry up and get himself killed as soon as possible in order not to face an unbearably emotional scene in which Euphemia forgives him for murdering her.

Then when Euphemia decides to remake the world to her liking she decides to show how Lleouch could have used his geas powers to do so without his violent revolutions and wars. So she sends out one team at a time of a geass user with a command geass, and a geass giver, and supporters without geass powers, to take over all the world's leaders and important figures one by one to make them secretly work for Euphemia's new world order, just to show how lleouch could have done it -- though of course she does not have Charles watching her every move.

And in the books set in the other alternate universe, Charles and VV don't notice Euphie's geass powers but assume she revives because of her being rebuilt as an assassin with regenerative abilities. And since she is officially dead Charles/Caroleus uses her as an assassin full time, although her true self keeps regaining control. And then when Charles is dead and no longer can use the codes to restore thea ssassin personality to control, Euphie's true self regains control and she escaptes from the headquarters of the super assassins and heads for Pendragon.

Euphie heads for a isolated villa where her half sister princess Augusta is kept in seclusion. Augusta is a beautiful girl but considered even more eccentric and useless than Euphie by the other members of the royal family and the nobility. She was considered to be retarded until Euphie discovered she had mild learning disabilities and actually is a genius, and is almost as nice as Euphie (though Euphie naturally thinks that she is far nicer than her) and should be publicized as as one of the best members of the imperial family instead of being hidden away in shame by Charles and her mother.

And then F.R.E.I.J.A. is used on Pendragon and when Euphie "wakes up" (actually she comes back to life) she searches the totally devastated, lifeless landscape until she identifies what she thinks was Augusta's villa. No one could have survived there so Augusta is dead unless she was one one of her rare trips outside of Pendragon.

So Euphie heads farther away from the center of the blast and finds an area with survivors who need rescuing and assisting, and helps until she dies of radiation poisoning . When she revives and claws her way out of a shallow grave all of her co rescuers who see run away screaming in terror, since stories and movies about evil undead vampires, zombies and ghosts are common in Britannia. And Euphemia weeps, fearing that if she ever meets any of her loved ones again they might hate and fear her as an evil undead being.

So her goal will be to conquer or otherwise unify the world to prevent anything like this from every happening, and she will not consider the United Federation of nations or the Zero REquiem sufficient to prevent future wars. But how can any one conquer or unify the world, when the beas t chance was teh Brittannian-Chinese royal marriage? And how could Euphemia of all people, accomplish this, since she hates violence?







You are writing novels?!
GREAT!!!!!
So you are a writer....
I guess....


uuuummmm....
the storyline you have made is good
all are positive....

but there is one thing I would like to say....
don't make your main character as the most powerful character in the story....
because for me, it is good to see the lead character to rise from zero to hero....
you know.... how he or she show determination to achieve his or her goal
and how he or she overcome all the impediments that he or she encounter....
all those hardships and bitter loses and then....
sweet triumphs....
Anyway, that is only my opinion....

but the story line is good....

Actually I myself is also thinking of a possible storyline where and when Euphie is alive....
because as you see, she is the most positive character in the story yet shot and blamed for the crime she didn't intend to do.
the scene where she was shot was remarkable and very dramatic....
and I really like it
but I think it would be better if she was brought back to life on the R2....
as another geass giver....
to give Suzaku geass....



on your last question....
uuuummmm....
I don't think that through the Brittannia and Chinese royal marriage.... the world would be unified.... especially on the plot of code geass....or even today or even in other universe.... I just can't see the possibility....

As I have said.... "the only permanent thing in this world is change"
so, wars will probably end into peace (as they call it)....
but also the end result peace will probably end....
let's just say that these two things are in a lifetime cycle....



So you like it when the main character does not have all the power. So you would prefer the second alternate universe where Euphie has just as many super geass powers as in the other one, but nobody knows about them and so she doesn't know about them or how to use them and has to do more than Charles, and Lelouch, and Schneitzel, and Suzaku together ever did, with no superpowers and just her natural abilities which she is thinks are even less than other people think that they are.

An alternate universe in which Euphie has super powers and knows about them will be much more pleasant for her and the people of the world, but one where she doesn't know anything about them and how to use them has has to conquer, unite, and pacify the world (and solve a lot of other problems that she cares about but were never mentioned in the series, such a poverty and disease and so on) will certainly be more dramaic and suspenseful.

I once read that the most important question in writing a story is "who does it hurt?". Since Euphemia is the character that seems to be hurt the most by other people's suffering and problems, even those of strangers, she would seem to be the natural choice for the protagonist in Code geass. So she would probably feel the most guilt while solving the world's problems even if she did so the most humane way possible in the world of code geass.

And after feeling agonies of guilt over how ruthless, brutal, and cruel she is becoming, Euphemia finally solves all the world's problems. And then she gradually discovers her incredible geass powers and finally realizes that she could have done it all so much easier and with so much less suffering if she knew about her geass powers. And then she thinks that she has wasted the best years of her life (not yet noticing the eternal life part) in fighting, conquering, diplomacy, intrigue, lying, and backstabbing and poletices.




Okay....
If that is what you think a better plot, so be it....
people have different taste, so I understand your point....


question:
If that is how the story runs....
how about the romantic part?

would it still be Suzaku or Lelouch or another character who will emerge?


I like the concept of Euphie being an assassin unknown to her true self....
I envision that the part when Euphie would wake up and know all of the horrible things she have done would be the most dramatic part!
And how she will pull herself together to right all the wrong things she have done will be great....


And then there is a third alternate universe in which Euphie is geassified but not as much, and her super assasin regenerative abilities are not as strong, and so she dies, and all the geass energy she has collected is scattered and wasted and can never be used again, and there is only enough geass energy to keep geass users and givers going until the last episode and an unknown period of time aferward.

Meanwhile in heaven the gods find that everybody there is comparing them unfavoraby to the new arrival Euphemia, asking why they can't be as good as she is, and decide to get rid of her by bringing her back to life and sending her to Earth to try to solve the world's problems. With or without additional powers.

And in other alternate universes Lelouch decides not to kill her at the last moment, and in others Suzaku rescues her in the nick of time.. And in some of those univreses Euphemia has more geass powers than in others. in some of these universes Euhemia is known to be alive and has some influence on the course of events, while in others she is hidden and everyone thinks that she is dead and the coure of events goes as in R2 or sometimes things go differently and different alternate universes branch off.

I think that in the alternate universes in which Euphemia has a lot of geass powers she will quickly discover that Suzaku is alive and they will have a joyous reunion (except in the ones where Suzaku has already found a new girlfriend).

In the second of my proposed storylines things will be less pleasant, though more interesting, for Euphemia and Suzaku. Euphemia is believed dead, and suzaku is believed killed in battle now that he has become the new Zero (not something that Euphie will approve of) and Euphemia does not know she has super geass powers.

So after she revives and people run away in terror from her in Pendragon Euphemia doesn't know what to do, believing that she has no skills. She decides to claim a portion of the imperial families wealth without revealing that she is the undead princess Euphemia. So she obtains clothing that covers her completly and claims that she is terribly scarred from the destruction of pendragon, and occassionally takes off a glove or her face mask to reveal fake scarred makeup. She claims to be her secluded sister Princess Augusta who has just barely survived teh use of F.R.E.I.J.A. on Pendragon.

genetic tests reveal that "Augusta" is the daughter of Emperor Chalres and the half sister of Empress Nunnally, and so Nunnaly gives her augusta's ineritance and more. Trillions of dollars of financial assets of various kinds was owned by noble and billionaire familes who resided in Pendragonand now have no known heirs, and the imperial government is keeping that wealth in escrow until people can prove they have claims to some of it or a hundred years passes. So Nunnally , believing that anyone who was close to Euphemia must be kind and likey to make good use of wealth, gives "Augusta" control of a big chunk of that wealth, and hints that she shouldn't have to worry too much about conserving it for the unlikely event of an heir being found.

And of course some of the less important things Euphemia/Augusta does with her wealth will be to finance a lot of movies and tv shows about kind, good undead vampires and zombies and ghosts, hoping that someday she won't be afraid to reveal her true identity, and also to make Euphemia respected and her murderer Zero not respected. I imagine mask to mask debates between "Augusta" and "Zero" in which Euphemia tries to prove that Zero is no hero if he could murder Euphemia with no good reason and Suzaku defends Zero despite what he really wants to say.

So eventually Euphemia and the new organization, the Silver Legion, led by a masked leader known as Infinity, will eventually form the New Roman Empire ruling the whole world, and the defeated Zero is brought before Infinity to be unmasked. But first Infinity takes off "his" costume to reveal that she is Princess Euphemia, and then Zero takes off his costume and mask to reveal he is Suzaku. And they have a joyous reunion, but don't quite live happily ever after. Suzaku wants to preserve the Japanese nation while Euphemia wants to merge all the peoples of the world into a new Neo Roman culture, "executing" all the nations of the world for theirr crimes while not killing any actual person.

So Suzaku leads a group of Japanese who refound Japan in a group of hidden space habitats. When there are thousands and millions of space habitats and countless billions and trillions of people are part of the New Roman Empire the hidden New Japan is discovered and space war break s out between the Roman Empire and New Japan. It is a remarkably civilized and bloodless type of space war since the revered founders of the two realms, Euphemia and Suzaku, believe that war should be fought as nonviolently as possible. But some people travel to alternate universes hoping to find a more peaceful one. And they find that in alternate universes where Euphemia did not come back to life, or never lived, there are numerous wars in the solar system and billions of people are killed in wars each year without making much of a dent in the total population of the solar system.

And when faster than light travel is discovered the new roman empire and new japan both colonize the stars. So sometimes space wars break out between the new roman empire and the latest new japan, though Euphemia and Suzaku do their best to keep the bloodshed minimal. And sometimes they reconcile and raise a new family, and sometimes they split up again. And people who travel to alternate universe discover than in the ones without Euphemia there are sometimes gigantic interstellar wars with people being killed by tens of billions each year.







I like the concept about the mask to mask debate....
where euphie and suzaku would look at each other as enemies without knowing that the person they are talking to is their beloved....

but i don't like the concept about Euphie starting a war to conquer the world....
her character doesn't suit the idea....
besides.... seeing the world in a better condition when there is no war, will be fine for her

why not put this as the reason....

it was rumored that the place where Euphie is....
is mass producing deadly weapons threatening the peace of the world.... again....
so the high rankng officials of the Britannian Empire are very much worried....
so they decided together with the other leaders of other countries to fire F.R.E.I.J.A towards the city....
though suzaku and nunnaly greatly opposed
the destructive activty was put into action....

after the bombing, Euphie survived because of the immortality brought by the geass
seeing the whole city gone, Euphie felt angry and promised her friends and Augusta justice

in order to get revenge, she planned to go to the britannian empire and pretend to be Augusta and use all the inheritance to get justice
she then covered herself and pretended to be augusta,

during her travel to Britain she suffered much discrimination,
people look at her as though she is a monster

then there will be a scene where Euphie saw a news about thankjng Zero for saving the world....

On the other hand....
Zero really don't like the news....
but was forced to shut up because the people might lose their trust to Zero if they will know that Zero opposed in bombing the city which threatens the peace of the world....

At last....
Euphie reached Britain and was able to claim all augusta's inheritance....
There Euphie started getting revenge by saying that the rumor about the city is false and the bombing is inhumane....
Though seeing each other on their worn mask, they get that sweet familiar feeling about their beloved....
they convince themselves that their beloved is already lost
so they look at each other as enemies.... opposed to their feelings....




well, I was thinking that Euphemia would conquer the world to unify it but she would do so in as peacefull and humane, and non violent a way as possible. I guess she was very upset when Lelouch and Nunnally were reported killed and had wild fantasies of revenge, perhaps dreaming of wiping out all Japanese for revenge. And later she was ashamed of her revenge fantasies. And Later she came to be ashamed of herself for being so upset by the deaths of merely two people in the conquest of Japan, even though they were among those she loved the most. She thought that she should have been equally sorry for all the thousands and millions of people killed in the conquest of Japan, especially all the children like Lelouch and Nunnally. So she came to want revenge on war, wanted to end war forever to get even for the deaths of Lelouch and Nunnlly and all the other people that she should mourn for just as much.


She only claims a small inheritance by pretending to be princess Auguusta, since she doesn't think that she has any talents to support herself, and Nunnally gives her billions and billions of ownerless money to administer in case someone every establishes a claim to, while hinting that she can doesn't have to worry about that formality much. Euphemia/Augususta tries to refuse all that money, wich is more than she needes and would give her a respnsibility to use it wisely to try to solve th worlds's problems,and possibly get her in a conflict with Nunnally in thefuture. But Nunnnally insists, thinking than anyone so similar to Euphemia will use such wealth well.

And so Euphemia starts by making a lot of investments in far out research that make her incredibly wealthy. Euphemia De Romania, my character, will have spent a lot of time in childhood and her teen years traveling in space and time like a companion of some version of Dr. Who would have, constantly returning to her own time and place in time not to be considered missing. And so she has visited worlds more technically advanced than her own, and has taken chances to study many inventions which her world should soon develop.

So she hires a lot of scientists,engineers and technicians to invent the inventions that a world at their level of technology would invent soon anyway. One of the first would be new form of atomic energy, rather like cold fusion, which will make sadukerite obsolete as a power source for most applications, and and vastly incease the world's supply of energy while lowering the cost drasically.

And she has much cheaper forms of space travel invented, knowing the methods that worked for other worlds and using the cheap energy of her cold fusion process. So she sends out expeditions to divert asteroids from their courses, starting with those most likely to colide with Earth, and put them into orbits convenient for mining them and sending their materials to Earth, thus creating a new and larger supply of raw materials.

So Euphemia/Augusta gains an incredibly vast income of trillions of dollar-equivalents per year and changes the economy of the Earth r Whole industries go out of business and Euphemia/Augusuta funds unemployment compensation and job retraining for the workers whle the investors lose most of hteir investments and Euhemia/Augusuta's share of the world's wealth gets bigger and bigger as the tola wealth of the world gets bigger and biggger.

but supposedly most of her wealth is owned by other business people who invested equally in her inventions --- but they are all fake identities that don't really exist. Some of these fake trillionaires create new empires by building new islands and/or floating cities in the oceans, and persuading small island nations doomed by rising sea levels to become parts of their empires in return for building of gigantic sea walls or raising the land on the islands, or creating floating cities for the island dwellers to live in. So the "revived" empires of Atlantis, MU, and Lemuria become recognized powers.

Euphemia/Augusta and her other even more bogus identities start a lot of orphanages for the millions of orphan children left over from the wars and various natural disasters and spend a lot of money taking over existing orphanages and making htem much better places to live in. And many of the kids are very grateful to various of Euphemia's identiies. And as they grow older they are offered chances to become part of an organization seeking to make a better world. Those who accept go though an initiation rite designed to make them abandon all their old loyalties and become loyal to the new Roman Empire.

And they are assigned to be serve in the Silver legion seeking to revive the roman Empire, or else in the Atlantean, Muvian, or Lemurian Empires, and are transferred from one to another periodically, to keep them from developing loyalites to any one empire. While the outside world believes that the Roman, Atlantean, Muvian, and Lelmurian epires are seperate and different.

And the Roman Empire and the Atlantean, Muvian, and Lemurian Empires compete for power by doing good for the poor people in undeveloped countries. With charity on the one hand and loans on the other hand, and vast development projects on the third hand, they transform life in the undeveloped world greatly for the better. Sort of like the Cold War, but with much more do gooding and no skullduggery or proxy wars -- except wars that are totally faked to fool the world into thinking that the Empires are really rivals..

During the aftermath of the wars and the Zero REquiem, Euphemia finds that people and governments are reluctant to fight. So the various empires ask the natives of various third world areas to declare their independence of hteir governments which have no t done much for them and become independent states, in order to keep receiving their generosity. And so tens and hundreds of tiny communities become independent nations with hardly any struggle from the nations they succeed from, since people are still peaceful. And each new little nation has to promise to be come part of the new roman Empire, or the Atlantean Empire, or the Muvian Empire, or the Lemurian Empire when asked, and to be friendly and and loyal to their empire in the meantime.

And each of these new and temporary nations applies to join the united Federation of Nations. If the rule is one vote per nation, the Empires as they gain more and more temporary nations pledged to obey them, soon control a majority of votes in the UFN. Even though they pretend to be rivals, the growing power of the Empires alarms the larger and more powerful natios auch as Britannia and China, etc., who fear that the UFN will soon be dominated by the empires and the many new little nations. And changing the rul to voting by population will not help much since the Empries are taking over the most populated areas of the world.

So the rich,powerfull, large nations will succeed from the UFN and join and a new international organization, the World League perhaps, while the nations controlled by the empires form a new organization, the United Empires, and the old UFN more or less ceases to exist. Euphie had hoped to take over the UFN and use majority votes to make its control of the nations strong enough to make war impossible, but she has many backup plans. Euphie uses a lot of hidden influence to make the World League as capable as possible of restraining its members from going to war and as incapable as possible of going to war as a whole, against the United Empires, for example.

And Euphemia gets as many nation as as possible to join both the World League and the United Empires, so that the overlapping membership will tend to be a brake against the two organizations going to war.

And then there are signs that wars are starting to regain their acceptability in the minds of people and leaders and that the effects of the Zero REquiem are wearing off, and the governments of the world wiil soon start to solve some of their problems with wars, even with the restriaing influence of the World league and the United Empires. But of course most of the world's weapons are several years old by now and new weapons will be needed for any future wars.

Fortunately various dummy companies of Euphemia's have bought up a lot of arms plants and converted them and their workers to produce items for civilian use. And a lot of other dummy companies owned by Euphemia's various identities have been created to produce armaments. Naturally Euphie has had her technicians develop new and less deadly weapons that are as non lethal but effective as they can be made. So the salesmen from the various rival arms companies stress the importance of the new nonlethal weapons in a world where the possibility of war is still not as accepted as it used to be. Perhaps in time when people get more used to the idea of war again, weapons can be made more deadly, they say. But of course Euphemia has no intention of ever letting that happen.

And the various Euphemian weapons companies offer really great deals to various governments. For example producing nightmares in much greater numbers for the same price as lesser numbers of nightmares used to cost. Countries which once could afford tens of nightmares now can afford hundreds, those which once could afford hundreds can now afford thousands at the same price.. And all of those nightmares come with computerized control systems which can been taken over by the correct codes, rendering the pilot helpless -- a feature not mentioned by the salesmen.

Anyway, this should give some hints as to how Euphie would plan to take over the world without any fighting and killing, or as little as possible. And not committing herself to an all out effort until she gives the UFN and the the effects of the Zero Requiem as long as possible to demonstrate whether they can work at keeping the peace.







The scenario is well thought....
but i think, everything went out very smooth for Euphemia....

I think it is better if you put some other character who will contradict every Euphemia's actions
In such a way, it will give the audience a thrill, about how Euphie will face those impediments brought by that new villain.

And another thing,
that scenario is losing the touch of geass....
and I can't see drama....


Well, anyone who plans to take over the world (even if that take over will only be started if there are clear signs that wars will soon resume) will not lack for millions and billions of opponents, some of them powerful, clever, and ruthless.

And Euphemia will not very very confident in her ability to outwit her opponents. That is why she would want to prepare very well and use a method of attack that will not even be recognized as an attack, such as offering billions of poor people financial aid in exchange for their loyalty to her new Roman Empire (which will also help achieve her other goal of greatly reducing poverty). She would hope to conquer without conquering in the traditional and obvious way as much as possible., to avoid military conflicts which would be likely to be bloody and possibly a failure due to the power (and possible intelligent use of it) of her remaining opponents.

Euphemia would try to create a substitute for Lelouch's geass commands by using a scientific form of brainwashing, if possible. Naturally she is a little bit shy about asking people if they want to help her overthrow the present governments of the world.. So I expect that she would use an initiation ritual a when recruiting people into her organizations that would make them much more likely to remain loyal to her. perhaps a period of sensory deprivation broken only by recorded messages from Euphemia and then conversations with her in which she hopes to impress them with how much she wants to help the people of the world.

And of course that would not be as effective as Lelouch's geass commands. Some people wold not be loyal forever. Some might defect and reveal the existance of the parts of Euphie's plans they are familiar with. So I suppose that Euphie would back tehepublication of books and making of movies about sensational pots to take over the orld and subvert governments, ech ocntaining bits of her real plots along with fictional plots lines. So that anyone who tries to realveal the truth will be suspected of believing sensational books and movies.

And I think she would try to overcome her lack of military genius by using that conditioning on great generals. So prince Schneitzel, for example, would receive an offer of a free vacation at a fabulous new resort and would be given the condiitoning process if he accepted (no kidnapping in Euphemia's plans if she can help it). I think I will call the Shneitzel-like character prince Werner (from a weiner schnetzel).

Unknown to the public, and thus to Euphemia, Lelouch gave Schneitzel a geass command to obey Zero, I believe. So now that Suzaku is uncomfortably carrying on Zero's legacy Schneitzel is obedient to his orders. But I suspect that geass orders which have no time limit may fluctuate in strength, such as Suzaku's command to survive, which only affected him when the writers wanted it to. This can be explained as the strength of the gesss command weakening and strengthening periodically. So When Schentzel's geass command is weak he may plot against Zero but when it is strong he will have to report all his plotting to Suzaku/Zero. And I suspect that suzaku relies on Schneitzel for a lot of strategic planning.

So now when Schneitzel gets converted to Euphemia's cause he will more or less faithfully follow Euphie's orders and help plan her strategies, and also faithfully follow Zero's orders and help plan Zero's strategies, except when the orders conflict and he has to obey his geass command and perhaps sometimes when the geass command is weak and he can do what he wants.

And both Suzaku/Zero and Euphemia/Augusta/Infinity will rely on Schenitzel to help with strategy, not knowing that he is also working for the other side with equal loyalty, as well as for himself from time to time. And who knows which will be the first to order him to reveal everything he knows about the plans of the other?

And of course Schneitzel killed millions and plotted to take over the world and can be considered to be a villain by many. Although the most evil things he will do for some time is constantly advocate more violent, brutal,and ruthless methods than either of his commanders wants to use, and perhaps secretly using them despite their orders not to.

And perhaps both Suzaku/Zero and Euhemia/Infinity will come to suspect that Schneitzel is not totally loyal and give him and his staff fake stragegical problems to work on and create separate units to do their real strategical planning.

And there would be many other problems for Euphemia to worry about,. For example, accountants and auditors finding a paper trail which links the money that Princess Augusta's bogus investment partners originally invested in her research on a new form of atomic energy with the money that Augusta was given in trust by Nunnally, thus proving that the other investors are just fronts for Augusta, and thus that the Roman, Atlantean, Muvian, and Lemurian empires are all part of the same organization.

So Euphemia will have a lot to worry about since even small glitches in international intrigue and plotting that are not big enough to change the outcome can cause a lot of death and destruction, and some of the glitches could be big enough to ruin all her plans.




Okay....
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Ethically speaking Euphemia's death was the least necessary.

She was the only character good enough to be liked. And she was not only good enough to be liked, but superhumanly good.

Even after the the geass command added a new goal, thousands of times more evil than her previous goals were, Euphemie's overall goals were still far better, more good and less evil, than those of any other character. It would have been far better for the world of Code Geass if Euphemia won and achieved all her goals, even if that meant completing the geass command first, than if any of the other characters had achieved their goals. To say nothing of being far better than the mess the other characters made fighting for their causes against other characters fighting for their causes.

And the most necessary death was a tie between Lelouch, Schneitzel, Kallen, CC, Clovis, Cornelia, Rollo, Nunnally, Kaguya, Tianzi, Charles, etc. etc. etc.-- almost all the characters. There was not much need for Rivalez or Milly to die, and not much more for Shirely or Suzaku to die.

And dramatically speaking, Euphemia's evil and unnecessary death made me loose all interest in the story.
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HOLY SHIT!!!ITS WAR OVER HERE .....but i think the most neccessary is lulu's mom cuz if she did not die....the plot cant progress...and the most least is no1 cuz every death in code geass leads to another chain reaction to complete lelouch's goals....and for ehpumia (o plzz dont spam me just opinion)....i do believe wat lelouch did is wrong...but it isn't his fault but the geass itself becuz it went haywire....and lelouch did regret killing euphima throughout the series ...and the proof of that is somewhere in ep 20-23 of r2.......lulu said ''i shall create more rivers of blood,enough to obscure the name of ''massacre princess''....thus meaning he did not forget of killing euphiama till the end of zero reqium...and i didnt read all of those post cuz its just too much...and in my opinion....in lulu's mind that was the best thing to do for area 11 and for euphimia becuz if lulu did not shot her and captured here...dont u think the ppl of area 11 will rebel agaisnt the black knights making lulu's plan fall apart...and for euphimia even if the geass was taken off u cant hide the truth from her.....its just a matter of time b4 she finds out the she killed all those ppl...and the most probable cause shes gonna go insane and beg for her own death....and lulu did not want euphimia to suffer anymore..so he just killed...

my comment is not that organize so srry if it doesnt make sense...and plzz if ur going to reply back ininitycube plzz make it short...this is just my opinion and srry if i offended u
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Wow, massive quote pyramids here.
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One death that i know was very unnecessary.
SHIRLEY!!!!!
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Infinityc... How old are you ?!!! The world won't change with pretty words alone.

Euphie's existence itself is a danger to world peace. It's because people like her exists that some might think that colonisation is acceptable.
Her kindness is hypocritical. Does she really think it is possible to be called japanese in 1 area with the others where people are called number ? All the areas would claim the same rights and the emperor would never allow that. In the end she can do nothing, and don't even think she has the gut to start a coup d'état. She is a hypocrite.
One cannot change the world without the will to do it on global scale.
Suzaku is the same, and that's why they are a couple. He thought that by becoming "knight of one" he can choose area 11 and change the situation. That's the extent of his power : only one area. He is so stupid that he really doesn't understand that he can do nothing big unless he becomes the emperor which is not possible.
Lelouch is the greatest man ever existed. He is the philosopher king just as Socrate once described.
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Most Necessary: Charles Britannia
Least Necessary: Shirley Fenette
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guys you have to realize this is just an anime series (ESPECIALLY YOU INFINITYCUBED!), and why bother to write fanfiction length comments on something that is fiction?

also euphy haters and lovers, THE PLOT WAS DEVELOPED BY THE CREATORS!! so euphy's death was just a plot device and thus vital in continuing the series!
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HappyDude_123 wrote:

HOLY SHIT!!!ITS WAR OVER HERE .....but i think the most neccessary is lulu's mom cuz if she did not die....the plot cant progress...and the most least is no1 cuz every death in code geass leads to another chain reaction to complete lelouch's goals....and for ehpumia (o plzz dont spam me just opinion)....i do believe wat lelouch did is wrong...but it isn't his fault but the geass itself becuz it went haywire....and lelouch did regret killing euphima throughout the series ...and the proof of that is somewhere in ep 20-23 of r2.......lulu said ''i shall create more rivers of blood,enough to obscure the name of ''massacre princess''....thus meaning he did not forget of killing euphiama till the end of zero reqium...and i didnt read all of those post cuz its just too much...and in my opinion....in lulu's mind that was the best thing to do for area 11 and for euphimia becuz if lulu did not shot her and captured here...dont u think the ppl of area 11 will rebel agaisnt the black knights making lulu's plan fall apart...and for euphimia even if the geass was taken off u cant hide the truth from her.....its just a matter of time b4 she finds out the she killed all those ppl...and the most probable cause shes gonna go insane and beg for her own death....and lulu did not want euphimia to suffer anymore..so he just killed...

my comment is not that organize so srry if it doesnt make sense...and plzz if ur going to reply back ininitycube plzz make it short...this is just my opinion and srry if i offended u


I say that episode 23 clearly shows that it must have been perfectly obvious to Lelouch that it would be easy and safe to capture Euphemia alive. I say that the fastest way to stop the massacre would have been to capture Euphemia and use her as a hostage to get the Britannians to stop. So by killing Euphie Lelouch may have let many Japanese be killed before all the Britannians could be defeated. If he had captured her and used her as hostage to stop the massacre and then refused to break his word by treacherously killing her afterward the Japanese would probably have respected his high sense of ethics.

Remember Cornelia was a massacre princess long before Euphemia and it didn't seem like her life was in constant danger from revengeful Japanese. How many scenes do you remember when some Japanese tried to assassinate her in revenge for the Saitema Ghetto Massacre in "Attack Cornelia"/

Tens of millions of Germans repented their support of Nazism after the end of World War II. Tens of millions of Germans realized that they had supported a evil regime which murdered people by the millions. So did tens of millions of Germans long for death and commit suicide? No, they went on with their lives despite now being convinced that their past support for Nazism was terribly evil.

Remember Euphemia has probably already repented evil beliefs which she had when she was younger, just as tens of millions of Germans did. She probably cheered news reports of bloody Britannian conquests until she realized that the Britannians slaughtered far more people than they needed to and that each conquest that she had cheered was an unnecessary blood bath. But instead of wishing she was dead she tried to reduce the killing in future wars to a minimum -- compare the Britannian army's behavior at Saitema where Euphemia was not present to its behavior at Narita where Euphemia was present.

Euphemia would not long for death due to guilt for something she did not remember doing.

IN any case, nobody who wanted to do good would every kill someone who was so obviously easy to capture alive as Euphemia was.
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Rochel5555 wrote:

Infinityc... How old are you ?!!! The world won't change with pretty words alone.

Euphie's existence itself is a danger to world peace. It's because people like her exists that some might think that colonisation is acceptable.
Her kindness is hypocritical. Does she really think it is possible to be called japanese in 1 area with the others where people are called number ? All the areas would claim the same rights and the emperor would never allow that. In the end she can do nothing, and don't even think she has the gut to start a coup d'état. She is a hypocrite.
One cannot change the world without the will to do it on global scale.
Suzaku is the same, and that's why they are a couple. He thought that by becoming "knight of one" he can choose area 11 and change the situation. That's the extent of his power : only one area. He is so stupid that he really doesn't understand that he can do nothing big unless he becomes the emperor which is not possible.
Lelouch is the greatest man ever existed. He is the philosopher king just as Socrate once described.


How old are you?

How can you watch episode 23 without realizing that it must have been perfectly obvious to Lelouch that it would be just as safe and easy and fast to capture Euphemia as to kill her -- even safer and easier and faster than killing her the way he did, and that confining her for the rest of her life would be just as safe for the Japanese as killing her, and thus that killing her was utterly unnecessary to achieve any good or worthwhile goal such as stopping the massacre.

If you can achieve a goal just easy and safely without killing someone as by killing them, then achieving that goal is a justification for doing so without killing that person, not a justification for doing so while killing them. Nobody who had the slightest desire to do good would ever pass up such a wonderful chance to do good as Lelouch had when it was so easy to stop Euphemia without killing her. Thus Lelouch could not possibly have had any desire to do good.

No person who wanted to do good would have massacred the geass directorate people. No person who wanted to do good would have murdered the JLF leaders instead of using geass to make them his loyal subordinates. No person who wanted to do good would have murdered Clovis as he begged for mercy. And nobody who wanted to do good could kill someone as senselessly and needlessly as Lelouch killed Euphemia. Lelouch NEVER wanted to do any good. Not ever. Not if he could do any of those deeds.

Euphemia was the only character who had a chance of bringing world peace. There can never be peace as long as independent national governments exist. The only function which independent national governments have which dependent governments could not do just as well is making war on other independent governments. All independent governments must be tamed and subjected to higher laws of a World Federation or World Empire preventing them from making war.

So Euphie must have been conflicted about Britannia wars. On the one hand they abolished nation after nation and might succeed in conquering the whole world and bringing eternal peace and and saving hundreds of thousands or millions of lives a year for millions of years. On the other hand the Britannians led by her family slaughtered way too many people, many times more than they needed to. The Britannian conquests were incredible bloodbaths.

Should she support the Britannian conquests which might save countless trillions of lives in the long run, or should she oppose them because of all the thousands and millions of extra deaths which they caused in the short run? Euphemia resolved to create a third and better alternative.

She would persuade her relatives to plan to conquer in more intelligent ways, with less death and destruction and with more and richer surviving numbers to pay more taxes to help fund further conquests. And if the Britannian conquests were less violent and destructive the numbers would hate the Britannians less, making smaller and cheaper garrisons necessary in each Area, freeing more men and resources for more and faster conquests.

Comparing "Attack Cornelia" with the battle of Narita shows that at Saitema Ghetto Cornelia and her staff planned to use a brutal, evil massacre to force a terrorist group and Zero to show themselves and be killed. No doubt at first they planned to do the same thing at Narita, killing thousands of people from the town of Narita at a time until the JLF came out to fight and be killed. But when Euphemia insisted on going to Narita, and thus being a witness, Cornelia and her staff realized at they had to change their plans to keep Euphemia's love and respect. So they scraped their plans for another massacre and quickly came up with a brilliant plan -- the massacre would not have been necessary, they were just getting lazy and evil -- to surprise the JLf without committing any atrocities.

So there is at least one example of Euphemia succeeding in making Britannian warfare less brutal and cruel. Euphemia has actually done something good for thousands of people by preventing another Saitema Ghetto Masacre at Narita. And no other Code Geass character can say the same.

If Lelouch was a good person he would have planned to take over the Britannian government with his geass, taking bloody revenge on those who killed his mother if he couldn't control his lust for vengeance, and then make Euphemia empress. He could have used his geass to make tens or hundreds of other members of the royal family commit suicide or give up their rights in favor of Euphie, and made hundreds or thousands of nobles, officials, officers, etc. support Euphemia as the rightful empress, much to her surprise.

As Empress Euphemia would have demanded much from her generals, governors, and research teams. More victory and conquest! Less killing and destruction! More strategy and tactics, and less overrun with massive firepower and sheer weight of numbers! More kindness to the numbers, less oppression! More development of newer, more effective, and less lethal weapons, and tactics and strategy to use them to reduce fatalities as much as possible. More diplomatic efforts to negotiate the peaceful union of various countries with Brittannia . And her long lost brother Lelouch could reappear and become one of her top advisers.

Thus the horror of warfare would have been ended forever with as little cost as possible, If Lelouch had wanted to do what was good.

You say that the emperor would never allow the numbers in other areas to claim the rights which Euphie proposed for the SAZ? Are you claiming that Euphemia had no reason to believe that Emperor Schneitzel or Empress Cornelia would ever allow that, even if the SAZ was a success during all the years up to their succession? Surely Euphemia did not expect that her father would be emperor forever, even if she was unlikely to think of herself as a candidate for his replacement.

I say that all the other characters were too evil to save the world, and too evil to like. All the Britannians either ordered, or took part in, or were never seen protesting, any of the various atrocities and war crimes of Britannia. Nobody was ever seen even writing an anonymous letter to the newspaper saying it would be better to commit fewer massacres. The creators could have included such scenes if they wanted the viewers to think that any of the Britannians were good persons.

All the Japanese apparently wanted Japan to become independent again, despite knowing that some of the organizations fighting for Japanese independence included terrorists. Terrorism is so evil that no cause is worth supporting if terrorists fight for it. If any Japanese person wanted Japanese independence so much that he thought that he couldn't live without it, he should have given up, laid down, and died in despair rather than hope for terrorist victory, if he was a good person. Nobody can be good enough to like if he is willing to support a cause polluted by terrorist support. The creators could have shown Japanese characters saying they used to want the rebellion to succeed but not anymore, now that terrorists are taking part, if the creators wanted the viewers to think that any of the Japanese were good persons.

When the Kyoto Group started to fund the Black Knights, none of the Black nights objected that the Kyoto group financed terrorist organizations. NO Black Knight proposed that they should refuse to have anything to do with the Kyoto Group until and unless the Kyoto Group pledged to withdraw all funding from all organizations which did not cease all terrorist acts. The creators could have shown some of the Black Knights proposing such an action, if they wanted the audience to think that any of the Black Knights were good and decent people worth caring about.

But of all the characters, Euphemia alone is seen caring enough about the evils done by her side to do anything about them. At the Battle of Narita Euphie desperately wanted to do anything she could to save Cornelia, but refused to move the G1 vehicle to Cornelia's aid because she feared that might endanger the Narita civilians ahead of the G1. Euphemia is the only character shown to cancel a desired military move for fear of collateral damage, and thus the only character shown to good enough to be a military leader.

Euphemia is the only Britannian character shown to be good enough to try to reduce Britannian oppression of the numbers with her SAZ plan. Unless you believe that Lelouch's attempts to gain Japanese support for his revenge by pandering to their desire for Japanese independence was an attempt to help the Japanese. Just like giving a drug addict the drugs he wants and which will eventually kill him is sort of like helping him.

So Euphemia is the only character in the whole cast who is good enough to like and good enough to save the world.

And Euphie is even better than that. Britannian soldiers never seemed reluctant to kill when ordered to massacre helpless victims, but we can expect that most would refuse orders to kill themselves. We can expect that most would be tens or hundreds or thousands of times more reluctant to kill themselves than to massacre helpless victims. Yet the Britannian soldiers who Lelouch ordered to kill themselves did so without hesitation.

Euphemia resisted her geass command to massacre Japanese people, something Lelouch had never seen before. So Euphemia must have tens, or hundreds, or thousands, or tens of thousands, or millions, or countless billions, of times more reluctant to kill than the Britannian soldiers were.

But how could members of the same species differ so much in the strength of a mental quality such as reluctance to kill? I say that is impossible and therefore Euphemia was probably not a human being but something higher and greater, incarnated as a human and a member of the Britannian imperial family in the expectation she would lead Britannia to conquer the world less violently and rule it more kindly.

And Euphemia seemed to defeat her geass command as she talked to Lelouch right before he shot her, forgetting about the massacre as she emerged from geass control. When the geass controlled her it made her shoot General Darlton for questioning the massacre. If the geass still controlled Euphie when Lelouch shot her it would have made her shoot him back.. She didn't lose consciousness for at least a second or two, and possibly a lot longer, after Lelouch shot her.

In the sickbay of the Avalon the geass tried to take control of Euphie,and she resisted again, and then the geass stopped trying to take control of her, But she was not controlled by the geass command after it stopped trying to take over, because she did not try to kill any Japanese. And she was not too physically weak to kill, because she was still strong enough to kill as she had killed hundreds or thousands of people when controlled by the the geass. Euphie was still physically strong enough to talk, and thus to give orders. She could have ordered the captain of the Avalon to kill Suzaku and blast the nearest Japanese ghetto as her last dying command. But the geass command didn't make her do it. so Euphemia defeated her geass command, which nobody human could do, because of her superhuman goodness and reluctance to kill.

Euphemia, not Lelouch, was the philosopher king (or empress) that Plato, not Socrates, wrote about. and a lot more.

And you better hope that neither Socrates nor Plato is really close to the gods in the afterlife, because they might be so angered by your implication that they might approve of so evil a person as Lelouch that they might persuade Zeus to zap you with a thunderbolt and send you to Tartarus.
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The most necessary death was Lelouche.

Least necessary... In terms of story, I don't think any death wasn't needed.
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The most necessary death? Come on that's Lady Marianne. Without it the whole story wouldn't have happened!

Least necessary... probably Rolo. I don't see the plot going in other directions or changing much if he remained alive.

On a side note I wish Naoto Kozuki wouldn't have died. Why? Well he was quite good looking (another waste of character design there) and if he remained alive Kallen might have turned out to be a more likeable character instead of the annoying overly bitter shrew she turned out to be. Also would have been interesting to see his reaction when Zero took over his resistance group and formed the Black Knights (Ohgi didn't have any problems because he didn't give a shit about being leader), plus the fact that his sister developed a crush on him.
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umm, I will have to say either euphemia or lady marianne. marianne cuz if she didn't die the series wouldn't have happened. euphemia is at least the second most important cuz there wouldn't be an r2 and the anime would have ended pretty boring if she didn't die, and infintycubed, don't reply to me unless it's short, reply to my message first.

also the least necessary was probably (now that I think about it) I would say lelouch because he is loveable, but in this case rolo. his power was shitty, that's the reason he had to die? well not that I was a big fan of him but I just thought he would have been fine if left alive. well actually he did help lelouch to escape
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infinitycubed wrote:

How old are you?

How can you watch episode 23 without realizing that it must have been perfectly obvious to Lelouch that it would be just as safe and easy and fast to capture Euphemia as to kill her -- even safer and easier and faster than killing her the way he did, and that confining her for the rest of her life would be just as safe for the Japanese as killing her, and thus that killing her was utterly unnecessary to achieve any good or worthwhile goal such as stopping the massacre.

If you can achieve a goal just easy and safely without killing someone as by killing them, then achieving that goal is a justification for doing so without killing that person, not a justification for doing so while killing them. Nobody who had the slightest desire to do good would ever pass up such a wonderful chance to do good as Lelouch had when it was so easy to stop Euphemia without killing her. Thus Lelouch could not possibly have had any desire to do good.

No person who wanted to do good would have massacred the geass directorate people. No person who wanted to do good would have murdered the JLF leaders instead of using geass to make them his loyal subordinates. No person who wanted to do good would have murdered Clovis as he begged for mercy. And nobody who wanted to do good could kill someone as senselessly and needlessly as Lelouch killed Euphemia. Lelouch NEVER wanted to do any good. Not ever. Not if he could do any of those deeds.

Euphemia was the only character who had a chance of bringing world peace. There can never be peace as long as independent national governments exist. The only function which independent national governments have which dependent governments could not do just as well is making war on other independent governments. All independent governments must be tamed and subjected to higher laws of a World Federation or World Empire preventing them from making war.

So Euphie must have been conflicted about Britannia wars. On the one hand they abolished nation after nation and might succeed in conquering the whole world and bringing eternal peace and and saving hundreds of thousands or millions of lives a year for millions of years. On the other hand the Britannians led by her family slaughtered way too many people, many times more than they needed to. The Britannian conquests were incredible bloodbaths.

Should she support the Britannian conquests which might save countless trillions of lives in the long run, or should she oppose them because of all the thousands and millions of extra deaths which they caused in the short run? Euphemia resolved to create a third and better alternative.

She would persuade her relatives to plan to conquer in more intelligent ways, with less death and destruction and with more and richer surviving numbers to pay more taxes to help fund further conquests. And if the Britannian conquests were less violent and destructive the numbers would hate the Britannians less, making smaller and cheaper garrisons necessary in each Area, freeing more men and resources for more and faster conquests.

Comparing "Attack Cornelia" with the battle of Narita shows that at Saitema Ghetto Cornelia and her staff planned to use a brutal, evil massacre to force a terrorist group and Zero to show themselves and be killed. No doubt at first they planned to do the same thing at Narita, killing thousands of people from the town of Narita at a time until the JLF came out to fight and be killed. But when Euphemia insisted on going to Narita, and thus being a witness, Cornelia and her staff realized at they had to change their plans to keep Euphemia's love and respect. So they scraped their plans for another massacre and quickly came up with a brilliant plan -- the massacre would not have been necessary, they were just getting lazy and evil -- to surprise the JLf without committing any atrocities.

So there is at least one example of Euphemia succeeding in making Britannian warfare less brutal and cruel. Euphemia has actually done something good for thousands of people by preventing another Saitema Ghetto Masacre at Narita. And no other Code Geass character can say the same.

If Lelouch was a good person he would have planned to take over the Britannian government with his geass, taking bloody revenge on those who killed his mother if he couldn't control his lust for vengeance, and then make Euphemia empress. He could have used his geass to make tens or hundreds of other members of the royal family commit suicide or give up their rights in favor of Euphie, and made hundreds or thousands of nobles, officials, officers, etc. support Euphemia as the rightful empress, much to her surprise.

As Empress Euphemia would have demanded much from her generals, governors, and research teams. More victory and conquest! Less killing and destruction! More strategy and tactics, and less overrun with massive firepower and sheer weight of numbers! More kindness to the numbers, less oppression! More development of newer, more effective, and less lethal weapons, and tactics and strategy to use them to reduce fatalities as much as possible. More diplomatic efforts to negotiate the peaceful union of various countries with Brittannia . And her long lost brother Lelouch could reappear and become one of her top advisers.

Thus the horror of warfare would have been ended forever with as little cost as possible, If Lelouch had wanted to do what was good.

You say that the emperor would never allow the numbers in other areas to claim the rights which Euphie proposed for the SAZ? Are you claiming that Euphemia had no reason to believe that Emperor Schneitzel or Empress Cornelia would ever allow that, even if the SAZ was a success during all the years up to their succession? Surely Euphemia did not expect that her father would be emperor forever, even if she was unlikely to think of herself as a candidate for his replacement.

I say that all the other characters were too evil to save the world, and too evil to like. All the Britannians either ordered, or took part in, or were never seen protesting, any of the various atrocities and war crimes of Britannia. Nobody was ever seen even writing an anonymous letter to the newspaper saying it would be better to commit fewer massacres. The creators could have included such scenes if they wanted the viewers to think that any of the Britannians were good persons.

All the Japanese apparently wanted Japan to become independent again, despite knowing that some of the organizations fighting for Japanese independence included terrorists. Terrorism is so evil that no cause is worth supporting if terrorists fight for it. If any Japanese person wanted Japanese independence so much that he thought that he couldn't live without it, he should have given up, laid down, and died in despair rather than hope for terrorist victory, if he was a good person. Nobody can be good enough to like if he is willing to support a cause polluted by terrorist support. The creators could have shown Japanese characters saying they used to want the rebellion to succeed but not anymore, now that terrorists are taking part, if the creators wanted the viewers to think that any of the Japanese were good persons.

When the Kyoto Group started to fund the Black Knights, none of the Black nights objected that the Kyoto group financed terrorist organizations. NO Black Knight proposed that they should refuse to have anything to do with the Kyoto Group until and unless the Kyoto Group pledged to withdraw all funding from all organizations which did not cease all terrorist acts. The creators could have shown some of the Black Knights proposing such an action, if they wanted the audience to think that any of the Black Knights were good and decent people worth caring about.

But of all the characters, Euphemia alone is seen caring enough about the evils done by her side to do anything about them. At the Battle of Narita Euphie desperately wanted to do anything she could to save Cornelia, but refused to move the G1 vehicle to Cornelia's aid because she feared that might endanger the Narita civilians ahead of the G1. Euphemia is the only character shown to cancel a desired military move for fear of collateral damage, and thus the only character shown to good enough to be a military leader.

Euphemia is the only Britannian character shown to be good enough to try to reduce Britannian oppression of the numbers with her SAZ plan. Unless you believe that Lelouch's attempts to gain Japanese support for his revenge by pandering to their desire for Japanese independence was an attempt to help the Japanese. Just like giving a drug addict the drugs he wants and which will eventually kill him is sort of like helping him.

So Euphemia is the only character in the whole cast who is good enough to like and good enough to save the world.

And Euphie is even better than that. Britannian soldiers never seemed reluctant to kill when ordered to massacre helpless victims, but we can expect that most would refuse orders to kill themselves. We can expect that most would be tens or hundreds or thousands of times more reluctant to kill themselves than to massacre helpless victims. Yet the Britannian soldiers who Lelouch ordered to kill themselves did so without hesitation.

Euphemia resisted her geass command to massacre Japanese people, something Lelouch had never seen before. So Euphemia must have tens, or hundreds, or thousands, or tens of thousands, or millions, or countless billions, of times more reluctant to kill than the Britannian soldiers were.

But how could members of the same species differ so much in the strength of a mental quality such as reluctance to kill? I say that is impossible and therefore Euphemia was probably not a human being but something higher and greater, incarnated as a human and a member of the Britannian imperial family in the expectation she would lead Britannia to conquer the world less violently and rule it more kindly.

And Euphemia seemed to defeat her geass command as she talked to Lelouch right before he shot her, forgetting about the massacre as she emerged from geass control. When the geass controlled her it made her shoot General Darlton for questioning the massacre. If the geass still controlled Euphie when Lelouch shot her it would have made her shoot him back.. She didn't lose consciousness for at least a second or two, and possibly a lot longer, after Lelouch shot her.

In the sickbay of the Avalon the geass tried to take control of Euphie,and she resisted again, and then the geass stopped trying to take control of her, But she was not controlled by the geass command after it stopped trying to take over, because she did not try to kill any Japanese. And she was not too physically weak to kill, because she was still strong enough to kill as she had killed hundreds or thousands of people when controlled by the the geass. Euphie was still physically strong enough to talk, and thus to give orders. She could have ordered the captain of the Avalon to kill Suzaku and blast the nearest Japanese ghetto as her last dying command. But the geass command didn't make her do it. so Euphemia defeated her geass command, which nobody human could do, because of her superhuman goodness and reluctance to kill.

Euphemia, not Lelouch, was the philosopher king (or empress) that Plato, not Socrates, wrote about. and a lot more.

And you better hope that neither Socrates nor Plato is really close to the gods in the afterlife, because they might be so angered by your implication that they might approve of so evil a person as Lelouch that they might persuade Zeus to zap you with a thunderbolt and send you to Tartarus.


What is up with you and your fetish for Euphemia? I accept the fact that she was indeed the only character in the whole show with the most simple and peaceful solution to all the problems. But, Lelouch killed her, and that is how the producers decided the show will go.

The biggest reason why I find all of your arguments completely invalid is that you didn't finish the series. Lelouch clearly regrets and feels remorse at Euphemia's tragedy. If you fail to find any reason for Lelouch's action, then think of it as just that: a bad decision. Lelouch, despite being a genius, is not perfect. He also has emotions. You claim Lelouch has no desire to do any good. That is wrong. In the end, he does the greatest good of all. The means with which he achieved it were evil, the giant irony that envelops the whole show.
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To the guy who has the euphy crush--first, I am neutral on her death, she could have gone living as a madwoman--her death did make Suzuki's character more tragic and drives his motivation to fight against zero but that could have worked with a living, utterly screwed up Euphy as well. For me, she was a just a nice supporting character, so I never missed her, sorry. I know that may anger the Euphy fanboys but the story was never about her.

Second, Lelouch' murder of her was intended as a type of twisted mercy, he didn't want her to go on living knowing she had the peace she wanted was destroyed and all that blood was on her hands--even if it wasn't really her fault. (doesn't matter if she doesn't remember it--it's all on video and survivors who kind of saw her kill their friends and who will have grudges until the geass secret is revealed)

However, the tragic turn of Euphy going berzerk is what, for me, made episode 22 and the rest of CG EPIC. Turned a rather entertaining mech drama into frakkin Shakespearian bathos dude!

Also, the CG wikipedia entry seems to say that Euphy isn't killed in the manga version, in fact her plan succeeds--you may just use that to comfort yourself as being the "real" version.

Most necessary death: Lelouch -- he had to die, to atone for all his sins and also to achieve his goals. If they bring him back, i will be unhappy.Though he has embraced lies--lying and masks are the core of his personality, so faking his own death IS in the realm of possibility and would be workable. it's a cleaner atonement if he's actually dead though--if he lives, it makes it seem like he took his own life more seriously than all the people he sacrificed.

Least necessary: Shirley's dad. That came out of nowhere, and really just seemed like a trick to make the romance all conflicted. In fact, a lot of the Shirley arc was really forced just to make her a tragic figure such as her getting her memories back with the geass canceller ( a powerful weapon that doesn't show up again later in the freakin' series what the heck!)--though the part of her always loving him even in reincarnation was one of the best moments of this or any anime show--problem is, it felt like they set everything up for the "uber dramatic-tragic admission of love death scene".




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