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Let us clone a Neanderthal!!!! (my logic!)
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Posted 8/2/09

tweexar wrote:

btw, where to find an alive NeanderthaL?
there all ex-stink now but we do have some DNA of there's so soon we might see a Bartender, or a Doctor who happens to be a Neanderthal. But time will only tell.

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Posted 8/2/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


tweexar wrote:

btw, where to find an alive NeanderthaL?
there all ex-stink now but we do have some DNA of there's so soon we might see a Bartender, or a Doctor who happens to be a Neanderthal. But time will only tell.



with no enough "materials," cloning them will be i think not a good idea
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Posted 10/24/09

tweexar wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


tweexar wrote:

btw, where to find an alive NeanderthaL?
there all ex-stink now but we do have some DNA of there's so soon we might see a Bartender, or a Doctor who happens to be a Neanderthal. But time will only tell.



with no enough "materials," cloning them will be i think not a good idea


'Did you know my friend makes DNA in a lab, from nothing but the raw material. We have a map of the Neanderthals dna and so we can reconstruct there DNA in a lab.. So yes if we wanted to we can make test tube babies of Neanderthals.
Posted 10/26/09
Heck yeah! Sounds like fun to me. We need a real way to study caveman behavior.
Posted 10/26/09
i understand what you want to do dark but where are going to the DNA or the material to do so, there is hardly any if at all material left of Netherlanders
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Posted 10/27/09

Yei wrote:



OKay...
I doubt Neanderthals would be intelligent enough to function in our societies.

Wrong...



Evidence suggests that Neanderthals had culture, religion, art and, vitally, language.


The Neanderthal brain had far more functionality than an ape, and they can use sign language, and if you made a automatic weapon for Gorilla hands they would make a good shock trooper with the right training and some remote cerebral nudging...

A Neanderthal could speak.

If we found a tribe of them live they would not be so different for Amazonian aboriginals.
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Posted 10/27/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

i understand what you want to do dark but where are going to the DNA or the material to do so, there is hardly any if at all material left of Netherlanders


We have already mapped out there DNA... And My friend makes DNA in a lab.. From nothing but the building blocks.. Used for Schools and Scientist alike. Instead of building human DNA in a lab.. We could just build there DNA in a lab as well.. Same way we scientist create Human and other animal DNA, in order to run test..

The fact is we Can make DNA.. From nothing but the building blocks.. So yes we can have a bath tub full of Neanderthal DNA if we wanted to,
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Posted 10/27/09
The prejudices the neanderthals would face would probably be similar to what the newcomers faced int alien nations. I think it would be pretty cool to clone a neanderthal sure he or she would be different but different is not always bad. Im when you look at it they were technically smarter or as smart as us, not to mention they were built stronger than us and better suited for survival in harsher climates. They didnt look all that different from us really there are people who have similar traits. Why not take the best traits of humans and neanderthals and combine them and see what what you'll get, they well either be bad or good . Im not against the idea of creating a better human, but is it even possible to clone or revive a neanderthal? Maybe maybe not fun idea lol i think they would learn and adapt to our world with little to no trouble. That a very interesting thought Darkphoenix i had never thought about it really but i think it it would an amazing experiment to try it out, i dont like the i dea of being nothing more than a lab rat though. Fantastic post Darkphoenix as usual.
Posted 10/27/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

i understand what you want to do dark but where are going to the DNA or the material to do so, there is hardly any if at all material left of Netherlanders


We have already mapped out there DNA... And My friend makes DNA in a lab.. From nothing but the building blocks.. Used for Schools and Scientist alike. Instead of building human DNA in a lab.. We could just build there DNA in a lab as well.. Same way we scientist create Human and other animal DNA, in order to run test..

The fact is we Can make DNA.. From nothing but the building blocks.. So yes we can have a bath tub full of Neanderthal DNA if we wanted to,


huh thanks for the info i really didn't know that but that would be neat to do so
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Posted 10/28/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:



This is the reason why I think Neanderthals should be brought back. Currently, we have expanded the circle of protection from ourselves to others of our group and then to strangers outside our group (other races, other religions), and will continue to expand it . I don’t think we will ever see unanimous equality between species until we actually can see another species similar enough to humans for this species barrier of ethics to be broken down.

It is a well known effect that discrimination decreases as diversity increases, but currently we have no diversity among our genus. We modern humans are the only species in our genus, so it is then hardly surprising that many humans are extremely intolerant and bigoted towards other species. What would their reaction be, then, when confronted with a young Neanderthal child? Will they consider the child to be less than human for not belonging to the superior species, just as a girl child was in the past considered a lesser human for belonging to the superior gender? Or will they realise that their species is not superior, and that other species are their moral equals.

Evidence suggests that Neanderthals had culture, religion, art and, vitally, language. A key factor in removing any bigotry is for the group being discriminated against to be able to speak out against such behaviour (noting that the ability to speak vocally is not required, as deaf and dumb humans would no doubt have me emphasize). Therefore, it seems likely that Neanderthals will be in the best position to argue against speciesism, being a member of another species.

There are three common argument for humans to have rights. First is that human are unique, exceptional among other life forms, and (sometimes) the sacred creation of a divine being. And, this argument goes, any human being is therefore deserving of rights just for being human. As I’ve argued previously, this argument is blatant bigotry, and therefore combating this viewpoint is one important reason for bringing Neanderthals back!

Second, a being is said to deserve rights if it can understand the concept of responsibility. Of course, this doesn’t let humans infants have any rights, so these people usually just fall back on the above mentioned view, and say that it is enough to be a member of a species with the concept of responsibility (why species? why not genus, or family?). Anyway, it appears that this will be a moot point, as it would be likely that Neanderthals would have had some concept of moral responsibility if they had language and formed groups with religions and cultural traditions.

Lastly, and the view I favour, is that rights are political representations of our responsibility towards other autonomous sentient beings. If a being is capable of valuing its life, it can then consent to life or death, and therefore only with this consent can its life be permanently and irreversibly ended. From this, therefore, I conclude that this being has a right to life. Likewise if a being is capable of valuing being free of pain, we give a right to not be tortured or suffer unnecessarily. Under this viewpoint, not only would Neanderthals have almost all the rights of humans, but many of these rights could also be extended to other animals, especially the great apes.

It may be, then, that speciesism will always remain, or at least until we can develop human-level artificial intelligence or encounter human-level alien life. But even without this moral imperative seeming likely to be successful, the field of evolutionary anthropology would be accelerated tremendously by examining the difference between Neanderthals and humans. .


By the way, for a fictional account of this, I have been made aware that a series of novels by Jasper Fforde has mention of bringing Neanderthals back via science, and the subsequent Neanderthal rights movement





reguardless of whether or not these... sub humans ...would be considered our equals is a moot point, other animals we percieve below us in the food chain will for all rationale purposes..stay there. This was duscussioned in Darwin's evolution thoery, and certain religions discuss this issue as well. not to mention such behaviors are grained in our genes and our societies. We call each other sub humans and deny each other rights. Until THAT problem is solved, most of us wont allow these issues to be moved on to other life forms.

Now if these...neanderthals prove to be somewhat humane, then they may very well be accpeted into our society, but that wont put other life forms or even other humans on an even playing field. There was a thread a while back discussing the same thing, he just wanted to add monkeys into our societies...

btw, are female neanderthals hot? they might make great sex slaves...but then again that entire species is even stronger then the Ape groups...that could cause some issues...how about bring back a more modern human desendent? one that cant over power a human raper? peace over war


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Posted 11/2/09

JJT2 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:



This is the reason why I think Neanderthals should be brought back. Currently, we have expanded the circle of protection from ourselves to others of our group and then to strangers outside our group (other races, other religions), and will continue to expand it . I don’t think we will ever see unanimous equality between species until we actually can see another species similar enough to humans for this species barrier of ethics to be broken down.

It is a well known effect that discrimination decreases as diversity increases, but currently we have no diversity among our genus. We modern humans are the only species in our genus, so it is then hardly surprising that many humans are extremely intolerant and bigoted towards other species. What would their reaction be, then, when confronted with a young Neanderthal child? Will they consider the child to be less than human for not belonging to the superior species, just as a girl child was in the past considered a lesser human for belonging to the superior gender? Or will they realise that their species is not superior, and that other species are their moral equals.

Evidence suggests that Neanderthals had culture, religion, art and, vitally, language. A key factor in removing any bigotry is for the group being discriminated against to be able to speak out against such behaviour (noting that the ability to speak vocally is not required, as deaf and dumb humans would no doubt have me emphasize). Therefore, it seems likely that Neanderthals will be in the best position to argue against speciesism, being a member of another species.

There are three common argument for humans to have rights. First is that human are unique, exceptional among other life forms, and (sometimes) the sacred creation of a divine being. And, this argument goes, any human being is therefore deserving of rights just for being human. As I’ve argued previously, this argument is blatant bigotry, and therefore combating this viewpoint is one important reason for bringing Neanderthals back!

Second, a being is said to deserve rights if it can understand the concept of responsibility. Of course, this doesn’t let humans infants have any rights, so these people usually just fall back on the above mentioned view, and say that it is enough to be a member of a species with the concept of responsibility (why species? why not genus, or family?). Anyway, it appears that this will be a moot point, as it would be likely that Neanderthals would have had some concept of moral responsibility if they had language and formed groups with religions and cultural traditions.

Lastly, and the view I favour, is that rights are political representations of our responsibility towards other autonomous sentient beings. If a being is capable of valuing its life, it can then consent to life or death, and therefore only with this consent can its life be permanently and irreversibly ended. From this, therefore, I conclude that this being has a right to life. Likewise if a being is capable of valuing being free of pain, we give a right to not be tortured or suffer unnecessarily. Under this viewpoint, not only would Neanderthals have almost all the rights of humans, but many of these rights could also be extended to other animals, especially the great apes.

It may be, then, that speciesism will always remain, or at least until we can develop human-level artificial intelligence or encounter human-level alien life. But even without this moral imperative seeming likely to be successful, the field of evolutionary anthropology would be accelerated tremendously by examining the difference between Neanderthals and humans. .


By the way, for a fictional account of this, I have been made aware that a series of novels by Jasper Fforde has mention of bringing Neanderthals back via science, and the subsequent Neanderthal rights movement





reguardless of whether or not these... sub humans ...would be considered our equals is a moot point, other animals we percieve below us in the food chain will for all rationale purposes..stay there. This was duscussioned in Darwin's evolution thoery, and certain religions discuss this issue as well. not to mention such behaviors are grained in our genes and our societies. We call each other sub humans and deny each other rights. Until THAT problem is solved, most of us wont allow these issues to be moved on to other life forms.

Now if these...neanderthals prove to be somewhat humane, then they may very well be accpeted into our society, but that wont put other life forms or even other humans on an even playing field. There was a thread a while back discussing the same thing, he just wanted to add monkeys into our societies...

btw, are female neanderthals hot? they might make great sex slaves...but then again that entire species is even stronger then the Ape groups...that could cause some issues...how about bring back a more modern human desendent? one that cant over power a human raper? peace over war





You wish they really look like this you Pervert rapist !

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Posted 11/2/09
Sadly enough, even though Neanderthals have bigger brains, their brain was not just used for thinking. A good portion of it was used for body heat control because their huge body structure and their environment demanded so. This is proven through the fact that Neanderthal tools and culture was inferior compared to the homo sapiens. There is a possiblity that some of us have Neanderthal blood in us, but it doesn't really make those people that much better. Neanderthals in this day and age would be great for heavy manual labor and night club bouncers but they would suck as think tanks.
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Posted 11/2/09

crunchypibb wrote:

Sadly enough, even though Neanderthals have bigger brains, their brain was not just used for thinking. A good portion of it was used for body heat control because their huge body structure and their environment demanded so. This is proven through the fact that Neanderthal tools and culture was inferior compared to the homo sapiens. There is a possiblity that some of us have Neanderthal blood in us, but it doesn't really make those people that much better. Neanderthals in this day and age would be great for heavy manual labor and night club bouncers but they would suck as think tanks.


'Your right about one thing. But the rest what you said is false.'
Yes there large brains aided them in maintaining heat. But also we have studied there tools and Tribes. We found that there level of technology was at the same as ares wen it came to weapons yet they had created other forms of tools early man was unable to do. So it safe to say technology wise there are equals before they died off.
I also like to point out after we studied neanderthal DNA we found that Humans Homo-sapains and Neanderthals are to different to have had children together. So the hole Idea of there might be Neanderthal DNA in us is 99.999999% false. Unless some Aliens, spiced are two races together, but that is not the case.


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Posted 11/2/09

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:

Sadly enough, even though Neanderthals have bigger brains, their brain was not just used for thinking. A good portion of it was used for body heat control because their huge body structure and their environment demanded so. This is proven through the fact that Neanderthal tools and culture was inferior compared to the homo sapiens. There is a possiblity that some of us have Neanderthal blood in us, but it doesn't really make those people that much better. Neanderthals in this day and age would be great for heavy manual labor and night club bouncers but they would suck as think tanks.


'Your right about one thing. But the rest what you said is false.'
Yes there large brains aided them in maintaining heat. But also we have studied there tools and Tribes. We found that there level of technology was at the same as ares wen it came to weapons yet they had created other forms of tools early man was unable to do. So it safe to say technology wise there are equals before they died off.
I also like to point out after we studied neanderthal DNA we found that Humans Homo-sapains and Neanderthals are to different to have had children together. So the hole Idea of there might be Neanderthal DNA in us is 99.999999% false. Unless some Aliens, spiced are two races together, but that is not the case.




They had the same weapons at the time homo sapiens and homo neanderthals split but the homo sapiens developed more sophisticated tools and the neanderthals kinda went sideways with tool tech and didn't really make much better tools than the ones they started with. Neanderthals were certainly not equals tool-wise when they died off and when the sapiens encountered the neanderthals their tools were far developed in comparison to the neanderthals.
I suppose you're right about the DNA thing. However, I still think that sapiens and neanderthals still could have had children (although with low success rate), it's just that their children were infertile. Good examples are ligers (I'm seriously not making a Napolean Dynamite reference), zorses, and mules.

Dude, if we could pull some 5th Element shiznik on a Neanderthal (and making them neanderthal instead of homo sapien like in the movie), it'd better be female so we can see some cross species sex with Bruce Willis
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Posted 11/2/09

crunchypibb wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:

Sadly enough, even though Neanderthals have bigger brains, their brain was not just used for thinking. A good portion of it was used for body heat control because their huge body structure and their environment demanded so. This is proven through the fact that Neanderthal tools and culture was inferior compared to the homo sapiens. There is a possiblity that some of us have Neanderthal blood in us, but it doesn't really make those people that much better. Neanderthals in this day and age would be great for heavy manual labor and night club bouncers but they would suck as think tanks.


'Your right about one thing. But the rest what you said is false.'
Yes there large brains aided them in maintaining heat. But also we have studied there tools and Tribes. We found that there level of technology was at the same as ares wen it came to weapons yet they had created other forms of tools early man was unable to do. So it safe to say technology wise there are equals before they died off.
I also like to point out after we studied neanderthal DNA we found that Humans Homo-sapains and Neanderthals are to different to have had children together. So the hole Idea of there might be Neanderthal DNA in us is 99.999999% false. Unless some Aliens, spiced are two races together, but that is not the case.




They had the same weapons at the time homo sapiens and homo neanderthals split but the homo sapiens developed more sophisticated tools and the neanderthals kinda went sideways with tool tech and didn't really make much better tools than the ones they started with. Neanderthals were certainly not equals tool-wise when they died off and when the sapiens encountered the neanderthals their tools were far developed in comparison to the neanderthals.
I suppose you're right about the DNA thing. However, I still think that sapiens and neanderthals still could have had children (although with low success rate), it's just that their children were infertile. Good examples are ligers (I'm seriously not making a Napolean Dynamite reference), zorses, and mules.

Dude, if we could pull some 5th Element shiznik on a Neanderthal (and making them neanderthal instead of homo sapien like in the movie), it'd better be female so we can see some cross species sex with Bruce Willis


Weapons? there is a Show all about Neanderthals and there skills in making Glue, and herbal cures, they also had a high level of understanding wen it came to hygiene... Weapons they had short hand spears, axes made of stone. Wile we created lighter throwing spears, and weapons more suited for open areas, like fields. there weapons sharp and heavy, for more better used in close combat.. do to the fact they hunt in more dense areas. making it more easy to sneak up on a target, harder to use ranged weapons. SO there weapons evolve for where there lived.

The DNA Difference from a Neanderthal to a Human, is that of a bear and a dog. both share the same ancestor, but there DNA is to far apart to hope to breed. what would you call a bear dog high-bread?
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